NCL For Sale - How would you feel if Carnival bought Star/NCL?

[shoreguy]

Lots of rumors out there but it seems Star is in play and in talks with "potential business partners". The stock has had a lot of activity. With Carnival looking to enter the Asian market how would you feel about Star selling out.

 

One think for sure the artwork on the Dawn will change.

[Globaliser]

I haven't thought through the ramifications of Star selling NCL as such, but one thing seems pretty clear to me: Carnival wouldn't be allowed to buy it. They are already right on the edge of acceptability as it is, in competition terms.

[jkrislc]

One think for sure the artwork on the Dawn will change.

As will the interior designs of their new ships if it happens. If there is to be a sale, I'd like to see RCI make a bid to prevent Carnival from gobbling up too much of the cruise market.

[swoosh2005]

Oh No Mr. Bill !!!!!!

[CruisinMatt]

:eek:

[albertiger]

please lord, not Carnivore! :eek:

[coaster]

It would bother me if it was Carnival. I have made a point not to book any line that they own. Carnival's obsession with bright colors and eliminating what little competition they have irritates me.

 

RCI is a different story. A RCI takeover would be positive. RCI has recently been renovating many of their older ships. Carnival has also done the same thing with the Fantasy and others. The current trend of NCL just taking their older ships out of service in the US is disturbing. These older ships have a loyal following for those of us who have sailed NCL since the early 90's. I have come to deal with the sad reality about the Norway. The Majesty, Crown, Sea, Wind and Dream are not antiques! They are not older than anything in RCI's current fleet. They just need to be with a line with deeper pockets to keep them fresh.

 

To add to this based on my experience, RCI/Celebrity's Zenith is extremely well maintained compared to the Norwegian Majesty of the same age. Their older ships are not being 'run into the ground' before being removed from NCL's fleet as I have seen in the past. Their ships are in good shape even before a major overhaul to add new features. You get the feeling that NCL doesn't have the resources needed to invest in what they have.

 

RCI is also serious about the short cruise market. The short cruise segment is the fastest growing market in the cruise industry. NCL has had little to offer in this department the past few years. They have a few 5 night cruises, but I see nothing next year on the schedule. NCL had no short cruises last year at all after they moved the Majesty to Charleston. It is impossible to build any kind of loyal following by having such an erratic schedule.

 

It would seem natural that RCI would have an interest in NCL after losing out to Carnival for Princess. Star may be looking to sell out because of the high cost of starting up their Hawaii cruises. They have admitted it was higher than what they thought. Star just started charging a fuel surcharge on their sailings due to increased fuel prices. Rising costs may be reason for all of these reports right now.

[robsvacation]

This wouldn't be the first try, Carnival has been close to buying NCL before. As for competition and approval, Carnival's purchase of Princess was approved on the basis that Carnival was in the vacation business (not the cruise business) and even with their purchase of Princess they still were only a small player in that entire market. That would pretty leaves the door open for Carnival Corp to continue to purchase other lines.

 

That said, Carnival is likely in better financial shape than Star so it might be better in the long run.

[HLP]

Coaster,

 

I appreciate your love for NCL's older ships. But there is a difference between NCL and RCL and that is freestyle. In

my opinion the older NCL ships do not set up to freestyle

very well and to make them do so the renovation would be too costly. They would have too remove cabin areas for gallies and resturaunts which would cut down their profit margin. Now if RCL and Carnival buy them and eliminate

freestyle then I think renovation would be fine.

 

As for Carnival buying NCL I would have no problem with that. Carnival is a well run company and have at least for now let the indiviual brands run independantly of one another.

 

HLP

[jkrislc]

It would bother me if it was Carnival. I have made a point not to book any line that they own. Carnival's obsession with bright colors and eliminating what little competition they have irritates me.

I totally agree. I'm not a fan of Carnival, but I've been considering trying them again since it's been almost 10 years since my one and only cruise with them. Fortunately, Joe Farcus (sp?) has tamed his designs a bit and it no longer looks like someone like someone vomitted neon in most of the Carnival ships any longer. The newest Carnival ship, is suprising quite appealing interior design wise.

NCL has had little to offer in this department the past few years. They have a few 5 night cruises, but I see nothing next year on the schedule. NCL had no short cruises last year at all after they moved the Majesty to Charleston. It is impossible to build any kind of loyal following by having such an erratic schedule.

I completely agree. I think NCL needs to offer one or two short cruises. In addition, they could tap into the California market by offering a short cruise from San Diego as Long Beach/San Pedro already have two ships doing that market. Perhaps with a decent ship with adequate speed, that could go further south on a short cruise itinerary and attract more people with more appealing ports of call.

[Riotgrl13]

def a thumbs down, RCCL and NCL are the two best out there. Having said that I am having a heart attack that NCL Spirit is moving to NY and they are not replacing their nine night cruise with another ship. I got off the Spirit and was ready to book for next fall only to find out its gone. No other cruise line is doing that it. I think they (cruise lines) make a big mistake when they shift around like that. It was such a wonderful it. and noone else had it.

[albertiger]

another current trend to beware of if Carnival should buy NCL... the ships (newbuilds) will begin to look suspiciously alike. notice Costa newbuilds, virtually a Carnival ship with a different funnel.

THAT i couldnt take! :D

[Windrunner I]

Star's not selling to Carnival. They're in talks with another party over a prospective merger or joint venture.

[shoreguy]

Star's not selling to Carnival. They're in talks with another party over a prospective merger or joint venture.

 

Somebody has to expalain the difference between a sale or a merger to a cruise customer. Two different legal transactions that result in two seperate companies becoming one.

 

Carnival is another company and a potenial player. If you know who the other party is please share.

 

In general this thread was started because of my concerns with the continuing reduction in choices in the mid market cruise industry.

[TWELVEOHONE]

Although Star Cruises is an Asian compnay with ships sailing Asian water NCL is not. So teh sale of NCL does not necessarily open Asian water.

 

NCL is in teh Mass Market category like Carnival and RCI, although RCI like to put themselves into the upper Mass Market. If RCI or carnival purchased NCL it they would have a cruise lines competiting with themselves. The purchase of NCL would only be for the ships, and the Hawaiian (U.S. Flagged ships) market.

 

My opinion

[ChrisConnolly]

This is direct from star cruises press release regarding the aformentioned trading activity.

 

 

"In the normal course of identifying business opportunities, the

Company from time to time engages in exploratory discussions with

potential business partners with respect to tourism related business.

At present, the discussions, which are in process, are at preliminary

stage and may or may not materialise. No agreement has yet been

reached. If materialised, they may or may not constitute notifiable

transactions of the Company.......

 

......We confirm that there are no negotiations

or agreements relating to intended acquisitions or realizations which

are discloseable under Rule 13.23 of the Listing Rules, neither is

the Board aware of any matter discloseable under the general

obligation imposed by Rule 13.09 of the Listing Rules, which is or

may be of a price-sensitive nature.

Meanwhile, shareholders of the Company and prospective investors are

advised to exercise caution in dealing in the securities of the

Company."

[newmexicoNita]

Chris, thanks for the update: it will be interesting to watch for future developments. I retired (the first time, that is) from a major hotel chain and a very good one I may add. It was always up for sale or part of a merger plan it seemed; guess what? It's still owned by the family that has had it since it;s inception many years ago.

 

If indeed a sale were to go through with NCL, please pray it's RCI and not Carnival. What a let down that would be.

 

I agree with the comments about moving the older ships as NCL's nitch is total Freestyle cruising and the older ships are not geared to that. I will miss ships like the Sea, but believe in Freestyle and the options it offers.

 

NMNIta

[dalwhitt]

another current trend to beware of if Carnival should buy NCL... the ships (newbuilds) will begin to look suspiciously alike. notice Costa newbuilds, virtually a Carnival ship with a different funnel.

THAT i couldnt take! :D

 

 

Hmmm, none of the Holland America, Cunard or Princess ships look anything like Carnival or Costa ships. And none of the onboard products are even close to being identical on any of the lines, even Costa and Carnival. If you didn't know they were owned by the same company, you wouldn't know they were owned by the same company.

[albertiger]

did i mention any of the other companies? NO. i said Costa. dig up some pictures of their newbuilds and if you dont see a resemblance, maybe its time for the eye doctor! :p

[robsvacation]

It's true, Carnival does share platforms between lines with the Carnival Spirit Class and the Coasta Atlantica Class being basically the same ship. Holland America's Visa class is also closely related although having serveral major features that make them less of a carbon copy. The last Vista class ship was going to Cunard but is now going to P&O, so basically the same ship will be across 4 lines!

 

Of cource, NCL and Star cruises share platforms too, it's just that their ships sail from different continents. The NCL Star and Dawn are really designs from the Asian parent company, as is the Jewel for the most part, and Spirit is a direct transfer (aka hand-me-down) from Star Cruises. Actually, the only ships in the fleet that are 100% NCL designs are the Wind and Dream, every other ship in the fleet has origins either with another cruise line or was designed specifically for NCL. This isn't good or bad, just an observation:

 

Pride of America: Originally part of "Project America" For United States Line

Pride of Aloha: Was originally designed as a sister ship to Costa's Victoria, Costa concelled the order when they were purchased by Carnival Corp

Crown: Built for Royal Cruise Lines

Dawn: Star Cruises Design, but lots of NCL input, I'd give it 1/4 NCL design

Dream: NCL top to bottom!

Jewel: Star Cruises Design, but lots of NCL input, I'd give it 2/5th NCL design

Majesty: Originally operated and designed for Majesty Cruise Lines but strectched by NCL.

Sea: Speculative newbuild designed by the Warselia (Sp?) Yards, little input from NCL.

Star: A star Design (Obviously), was indented for the star fleet but switched to NCL late in her build, some mods for NCL, I'd say this is 1/5 a NCL design

Spirit: A star Design (Actually this was a Star Ship)

Sun: Highly modified design for NCL, but hull design is Costa as this ship is a sister to Pride of Aloha/Costa Victoria I'd rate this ship 2/3's a NCL design

Wind: Pure NCL Design

[Globaliser]

I retired (the first time, that is) from a major hotel chain and a very good one I may add. It was always up for sale or part of a merger plan it seemed; guess what? It's still owned by the family that has had it since it;s inception many years ago.

Are you inviting a guessing game? Five letters, ending in T? :D

[jingle5616]

Are you inviting a guessing game? Five letters, ending in T? :D

 

I was going to guess the Malouf (sp) family, as Nita is from NM.

 

Jingle

[Michael Ho Ho]

The relative financial resources of the cruise line companies is greatly mis-understood.

 

While Carnival and RCCL are much higher profile, Star Cruise and its parent companies are far wealthier.

Star/NCL is a far distant third place when it comes to Cruise Line size. But the Lim family that owns Star is one of the wealthiest families in the world. Star Cruises is far and away the smallest company in their portfolio. More in line with a hobby than a business for them.

The Lims have huge real estate holdings in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Australia. They are very big in Oil Refineries, Lumber and Paper Mills, Hotel Chains, and Casinos. Now they are investing heavily in China.

 

Most Americans do not realize that nearly all those Native American Casinos that you see all over America were financed - and owned 49% - by the Lim Family. The most famous is Foxwood on the East Coast. They also own most of the casinos in Australia, and all of the casinos in Malaysia and Indonesia.

KT Lim could easily afford to buy and sell Carnival and RCCL several times over if it suited him.

[kkorman]

Perdonally, I think a takeover by RCI would make the most sense to market NCL against Carnival in the mass market. RCCL is kind of in between Princess and Carnival and would be a better competitor with Princess and then Celebrity can go against HAL. WIth the exception of the RCCL/Princess matchup, I think that RCI would be well postioned.

 

I can't see the goverment allowing a Carnival takeover of NCL/Star.

[RCCLCruiser23]

frankly I believe that MSC Cruises is the best bet has the buyer. The Parent company has the second largest container fleet in the world. they have a lot of money to spend even with all the newbuilds that they are building. which could be has many has six in the next couple of years. Both carnival and RCI do not make sense because ncl competes with them directly for passengers. if RCI or carnival did by Star/NCL out most likely NCL would probably be disolved and the ships placed elsewhere in the fleets. However Star would probably continue to exist because neither carnival or RCL have a major presence in Asia. MSC on the otherhand advertises it self as an italian line and would probably want to expand into those areas