Beijing to Hong Kong - Book now or wait

[2travelers]

Hi: After reading all the posts about Winter Collection Sale and Anniversary Sale prices, I called Oceania about their March 2010 trip from Beijing to Hong Kong. I had posted a while back because my husband fell in love with the itinerary. Many posters gave me information about other cruise lines with similar itineraries but more competive prices. My DH only likes the Oceania itinerary. After checking the website, it seemed that the price was the same as we have seen it previously - so I called. Turns out that price for the B1 deck is the same as the brochure we received 6 months ago. The operator at O said that it was $500 pp less. In the end, with taxes,entry fees and visas the total price (with what they call their Winter Savings) came out to $7767pp.(not including insurance, we get that on our own) So, I am wondering, with the economy the way it is, should I wait and see if O will become more competitive. I still think that this is a bit pricy - and yes, I know that they are a high-end ship. We are seasoned travelers, and we have been on trips that were at all ends of the spectrum - but I hate to think that these prices will drop in another 6 months.

Also - can I get visas on my own. I have always done that, but I am a bit unsure about the entry fees that were mentioned. This year we are headed to Egypt. The travel company suggests that we get the visas from a middleman at a cost of $135 - when in fact, we can get it at the airport in less than 5 minutes for $15pp. Oceania wants $469pp for visas and entry fees - seems a bit steep to me.

Thanks for all your input. I am not showing my husband the posts about the foods served, I won't stand a chance of not booking now if he reads that :p

Ronnie

[Aussie Gal]

We did the 35 day cruise on Nautica last year and we went to Vietnam, India, Oman, Egypt, Jordan etc. and I organized all our own visas which were easy to do here in Australia. It was the best cruise we have ever done. The itinerary was fantastic, the seas were calm, the ship was great and we had wonderful shipmates.

 

We are on Azamara's Quest next month and we visit similar ports to Nautica's Asian Itinerary that you are looking at for 2010. Again, I have organized our visa to China and we pick it up tomorrow from the Consulate here in Melbourne.

 

I know that Oceania has a great product but I would also look at Azamara as the cruise we are doing next month is one quarter the cost of what you are looking at. Our started off a lot more expensive but with the Economic climate, it has gradually come down in price and we now have a very cheap cruise in a Verandah cabin. By the way, the ships are identical as they were all built for the ex "R" cruiseline.

 

Jennie

[cruiseyguy]

I know your husband isn't interested in other lines but for comparison purposes-look at Azamara's February 14, 2009 cruise from Beijing to Hong, very similar ship and very similar itinerary. On the Azamara sailing their Penthouse Suite, which is the same as the Owner's Suite on Oceania, is available now for $4,449 per person. A standard veranda is going for less than $1,900 per person. And Oceania is asking you to pay $7,767 per person for a B1 over a year from now? No one thinks the economy is going to improve dramatically, if at all, in the coming year. So yes, the price should come down if Oceania's management is wedded to reality. But will it? Who knows.

[hondorner]

I can't answer any questions about other cruise lines. But, so far, Oceania has extended all price reductions to passengers with existing bookings. As long as it is not past the final payment date, it is too easy for a passenger to cancel and rebook, especially with a knowledgeable travel agent. So, I think it would be safe to book now.

 

I should add the caveat that no one knows how Oceania would treat it's already-booked passengers if they reduced the price after the final payment date, because they have never done so. But, they would endanger their reputation with their large number of previous passngers if they treated anyone shabbily...

[StanandJim]

I know your husband isn't interested in other lines but for comparison purposes-look at Azamara's February 14, 2009 cruise from Beijing to Hong, very similar ship and very similar itinerary. On the Azamara sailing their Penthouse Suite, which is the same as the Owner's Suite on Oceania, is available now for $4,449 per person. A standard veranda is going for less than $1,900 per person. And Oceania is asking you to pay $7,767 per person for a B1 over a year from now? No one thinks the economy is going to improve dramatically, if at all, in the coming year. So yes, the price should come down if Oceania's management is wedded to reality. But will it? Who knows

 

Cruiseguy-

 

I'd be very leary of booking with Azamara now. They were fighting an uphill battle before the recession hit, and despite the deep pockets of RCCL/Celebrity, Azamara was forced to cancel its' 2009 South American season and the 2009 World Cruise.

Later, RCCL quietly announced that a prospective new ship for the Azamara brand was "no longer being planned".

 

According to this CC member review, Azamara now seems to be deferring maintainance to save money, and that is not even the worst of it:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=50633

 

ouch!

[meow!]

If you pay for it with a major credit card, your money should normally be safe. Even IF ANY cruise line goes under before your voyage, the credit card should give you your money back.

[Paulchili]

Cruiseguy-

 

I'd be very leary of booking with Azamara now. They were fighting an uphill battle before the recession hit, and despite the deep pockets of RCCL/Celebrity, Azamara was forced to cancel its' 2009 South American season and the 2009 World Cruise.

Later, RCCL quietly announced that a prospective new ship for the Azamara brand was "no longer being planned".

 

According to this CC member review, Azamara now seems to be deferring maintainance to save money, and that is not even the worst of it:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=50633

 

ouch!

 

That review is quite alarming, especially as I was thinking about Azamara in the future.

However, let's not forget that it just one person's point of view (even though she claims to speak for ALL the passengers). We all have seen reviews like this from time to time for most cruise lines (HAL, Princess, etc) from disenchanted cruisers.

Looking at all the 95 reviews for the Journey, this person is definitely in the minority (but not to be ignored).

I will watch Azamara reviews VERY closely and stay clear if this is a trend.

[Aussie Gal]

I have just done a search for the person who posted that review and cannot find any of her posts on the Board.

 

We have had someone over on the Azamara Board that has been giving them a very bad name and his/her posts have been removed.

 

I believe that someone has either worked for Azamara or has had a bad experience with them and are out to put everyone off the product.

 

Jennie

[2travelers]

I have just done a search for the person who posted that review and cannot find any of her posts on the Board.

 

We have had someone over on the Azamara Board that has been giving them a very bad name and his/her posts have been removed.

 

I believe that someone has either worked for Azamara or has had a bad experience with them and are out to put everyone off the product.

 

Jennie

 

Thanks to all of you. After reading the responses I did a search of Azamara and found an itinerary for a cruise to Asia that almost matches the one from Oceania. While we have our 2009 trip planned and are almost ready to go, I always need something to look forward to. It gives me a reason to get up every morning and go to work :D. I am also going to be watching the posts on Azamara, although I have seen nothing but glowing reports so far. That review really threw me, although I must say that these folks knew what the itinerary was and the dates they were going to be in those ports. Indeed, he did say that his friends and family did extensive research - so why complain about something they certainly knew in advance?

In this economy, perhaps it is best to take a wait and see attitude. We are flexible, so I am going to watch the boards and see where Azamara is headed.

Thanks again

Ronnie

[fPetrarca]

I was on Azamara Quest's "Best Of Italy" cruise last Spring and it was one of the nicest cruises I have ever taken and the food was wonderful. Reviews on CC have to be looked at in totality to get a fair and balanced viewpoint of a cruise ship. Far too many malicious posters are allowed to "drop in." I think Azamara, in hindsight, made a very smart move in dropping the South America cruises as bookings in that region have been very soft for all companies this season. And postponing a new, expensive ship in the current economic climate turned out to be the right decision too, in contrast to Oceania, which has a mega-ship (for Oceania) in the works and a private holding company (Apollo) subject to far more negative financial rumors than RCL, a publicly-held corporation.

[LHT28]

According to this CC member review, Azamara now seems to be deferring maintainance to save money, and that is not even the worst of it:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=50633

 

ouch!

Sound like some of the same complaints on another thread in A forum

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=890542

[fPetrarca]

The review posted in the above-referenced link bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Azamra cruise I took. In fact, I think it is a grudge review, of which there are far too many on CC of late. In any event, it is obviously up to each individual to decide how best to spend their cruise dollars in this economy and Oceania, even if it costs more than the competition, will deliver a great cruise.

[Paulchili]

Sound like some of the same complaints on another thread in A forum

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=890542

 

 

It appears that it was on the same cruise (some relief to me, as this may be an aberration, rather than a trend). It would seem something went awry with this particular cruise. Also, the second reviewer gave A 4 "shells" overall and plans to cruise on A again - very different from the first reviewer.

I will keep watching and I am waiting for Jennie's review.

[hondorner]

...I think it is a grudge review, of which there are far too many on CC of late....

 

I find it ironic that someone who took the time to compare Oceania unfavorably to RCCL next criticizes comments as a grudge review...you can be positive about RCL and Azamara without being negative about Oceania and Apollo,

 

("And postponing a new, expensive ship in the current economic climate turned out to be the right decision too, in contrast to Oceania, which has a mega-ship (for Oceania) in the works and a private holding company (Apollo) subject to far more negative financial rumors than RCL, a publicly-held corporation.")

[Paulchili]

Cruiseguy-

 

I'd be very leary of booking with Azamara now. They were fighting an uphill battle before the recession hit, and despite the deep pockets of RCCL/Celebrity, Azamara was forced to cancel its' 2009 South American season and the 2009 World Cruise.

Later, RCCL quietly announced that a prospective new ship for the Azamara brand was "no longer being planned".

 

According to this CC member review, Azamara now seems to be deferring maintainance to save money, and that is not even the worst of it:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=50633

 

ouch!

 

Just to prove my prior point - there are almost as many opinions as there are posters. This is a very different review of A (Quest):

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=901238

[fPetrarca]

hondorner-You have mischaracterized my comments. I have never sailed Oceania and have sailed Azamara only once. Most of my (limited) cruising experience has been on Seabourn. I was responding to comments by an earlier poster regarding the financial health of Apollo vs. RCL. My quoted comments had nothing to do with the cruise experience on either Azamara nor Oceania. Regarding Apollo, it's easy enough to research stories about them on financial websites. And yes, there are a lot of grudge, false and hyper-critical reviews about all lines on CC of late.

[Aussie Gal]

I totally agree that there have been many grudge reviews on C.C. of late.

 

Also, if you read the review on the Azamara Board of that same cruise that was posted in the main review section, you will find that they actually enjoyed the cruise though there were some things that weren't right. Also, others who were on that cruise also gave their opinions and they seemed to have a good cruise.

 

One must not be blinkered and unable see that there are the good and bad on every cruise and if you were super critical you would never had a good cruise as there is no perfect cruise line.

 

I know there are people who are very loyal to their chosen cruise lines and that is great for them, but they shouldn't disregard that other cruise lines can also deliver a good product as well. As I have said we had a great cruise on Oceania last year but I wouldn't say that Oceania was better than others in a lot of the departments. We are happy to try other cruise lines and see for ourselves the difference.

 

Jennie

[dino2067]

I have been looking at both Oceania and Azamara's Asia offerings in 2010, however, there are some bothersome things that I have seen mentioned by Azamara posters that having a lower price wouldn't necessarily remedy for me:

 

Docking in container ports (such as Klong Toey for the Bangkok port which is NOT a nice area)

 

Changing (decreasing) amount of time in ports after final payment and before sailing with no explanation

 

Now, while a fire sale price is all well and good, if the itinerary/time in port has changed so much before one ever leaves the dock to the point that it no longer mirrors what one initially signed on for and planned for perhaps 12-18 months prior, is it really THAT good a deal??

 

Kathleen

[Paulchili]

I have been looking at both Oceania and Azamara's Asia offerings in 2010, however, there are some bothersome things that I have seen mentioned by Azamara posters that having a lower price wouldn't necessarily remedy for me:

 

Docking in container ports (such as Klong Toey for the Bangkok port which is NOT a nice area)

 

Changing (decreasing) amount of time in ports after final payment and before sailing with no explanation

 

Now, while a fire sale price is all well and good, if the itinerary/time in port has changed so much before one ever leaves the dock to the point that it no longer mirrors what one initially signed on for and planned for perhaps 12-18 months prior, is it really THAT good a deal??

 

Kathleen

 

Kathleen,

I strongly agree with your second point.

However, when it comes to docking, it is often first come first serve - depends on how many ships are in port at the same time (like in Dubrovnik, which can be busy). In fact, I would think that A's R ships can dock where many larger (Princess, RCI, HAL) ships may not be able to - like in St. Petersburg.

Unless it turns out that they do this to save money - that would not be good.

[StanandJim]

Now, while a fire sale price is all well and good, if the itinerary/time in port has changed so much before one ever leaves the dock to the point that it no longer mirrors what one initially signed on for and planned for perhaps 12-18 months prior, is it really THAT good a deal??

 

 

As meow pointed out after my last post, your money is probably safe if you pay by credit card, however, if RCCL chooses to merge Azamara back into Celebrity you'd find yourself booked on a very different cruise with no recourse but to take it or cancel.

• If you booked your air seperately, you'd better hope that your tickets are refundable!
  
• Dont forget to cancel those pre and post hotel stays
  
• Then cancel the private tour guides you spent hours and hours finding and researching.
  

And then if you're still a wage slave like me, beg the boss to let you re schedule your hard won three weeks together!

 

UGGGGHHHHHH-

[dino2067]

Kathleen,

I strongly agree with your second point.

However, when it comes to docking, it is often first come first serve - depends on how many ships are in port at the same time (like in Dubrovnik, which can be busy). In fact, I would think that A's R ships can dock where many larger (Princess, RCI, HAL) ships may not be able to - like in St. Petersburg.

Unless it turns out that they do this to save money - that would not be good.

 

Your point is well taken regarding size of the ships and being able to go places other larger ships can not. However, it would also seem that a container port would not necessarily be conducive to a cruise tourist and their needs particularly if one does ports "on their own".

 

I'd be interested in learning from those that have been on some of Oceania's Asia sailings whether they ended up in container ports during their journey.

 

Kathleen

[LHT28]

However, it would also seem that a container port would not necessarily be conducive to a cruise tourist and their needs particularly if one does ports "on their own".

Kathleen

Just curious

Do they have cruise ship ports in those countries?

In the Baltic they did not seem to have fancy cruise ports like they do in Miami or some of the island ports.

Some are container ports some were just piers

[cruiseyguy]

I believe some of Azamra's port issues (both place and timing) are the result of being the "new guy" to Asia. In any event, other cruise ships dock where Azamara will dock--in Bangkok, Regent & Crystal use the same facility as Azamara . And comments about "merging" Azamara back into Celebrity have as much basis in fact as the rumors about Celebrity buying Oceania's "R" ships. Take your pick.

[Aussie Gal]

Changing (decreasing) amount of time in ports after final payment and before sailing with no explanation

 

Now, while a fire sale price is all well and good, if the itinerary/time in port has changed so much before one ever leaves the dock to the point that it no longer mirrors what one initially signed on for and planned for perhaps 12-18 months prior, is it really THAT good a deal??

 

Kathleen

 

That has happened to us on our sailing next month. We started off paying the full amount but with the Economic downturn the prices have come down and we have a very reasonably priced cruise now.

 

But, we would rather have paid the full amount and have the itinerary that we booked. Never in all our cruising, have we had so many changes to an itinerary. The first one was in July when we lost a port in Japan but gained an extra day in Shanghai which some appreciated but others like us would have preferred to have kept the original port in Japan.

 

The worst though were the changes we discovered a week ago. Our final payment was on the 19th December and on the 4th January four changes were made. We lost time in four major ports including Hiroshima, Osaka, Busan and Incheon. The worst is our time in Incheon where we have been cut from 8 hours down to 6 hours. As Seoul is a good 90 minutes away, there now isn't enough time to visit this city.

 

As you say, getting a huge decrease in price doesn't make up for these changes and this may be our one and only cruise with Azamara as we plan well ahead and always book for the itinerary. In this case, if these changes had been made before final payment, we would have cancelled and looked for another cruise in the same area.

 

Jennie

[Aussie Gal]

Docking in container ports (such as Klong Toey for the Bangkok port which is NOT a nice area)

 

Kathleen

 

When we were on the Nautica in April last year, we docked in Bangkok at a Container/Navy dock which was not the nicest place to dock but it was better than docking an hour and a half away where the bigger ships need to tie up.

 

We were on the river and we were about 20 minutes or so from the city centre but not in an area where there were lots of transport etc. Actually, it could have been Klong Toey for all I know.

 

In Hong Kong we were at Ocean Terminal and in Ho Chi Ming City we were right in the city centre. The same for Singapore but in Kuala Lumpur, again we were at a Container dock, out in the middle of nowhere and it took a good 40 minutes or more to get into the city.

 

 

Jennie