Anyone play Craps on Carnival ships?

[MICKMAC100]

Based on my 10 years of experience as a dealer and supervisor in Las Vegas, you are in fact correct.

 

You are wrong in saying Mack is wrong. What I believe you fail to realize is that until you are betting more than 5xs odds (See my previous post), there is no (Zero, Nada, Zilch) difference in the payoffs between a place bet and a come bet with odds.

 

Again, if you're talking about being in Las Vegas where you can go to another casino quite easily, that is one thing. We're talking about playing on a ship, where the one or two tables are your only choice.

 

On a $120 place bet on the 6 or 8 (When was the last time you had that much bet on them?) You get paid $140. $20 pass line with $100 odds pays $140.

 

Vegasman

 

What casino's did you work in?

[jetwet1]

I am a craps player for many years and ran into a funny situation last year on Glory, was wondering if this is the same on all carnival ships.

 

When rolling the dice, they would not let you do anything but pick them up and toss'em. Pit boss would yell at you if you tried to set them. God forbid if you tossed them against the wall (playing with the dice).

 

I do get frustrated when a shooter takes what seems like hours before tossing the dice (probably only 15-30 seconds - seems like hours). But, I like to set them a certain way and grasp them a certain way before I toss. Only takes me a few seconds, been doing it for years. Was strange not being able to. Was funny to watch a shooter for the first time on the boat get yelled at. It's almost like they didn't want action at the table!

 

Has anyone else run into this rule? :confused:

 

At the place I ran I wouldn't allow players to blow on the dice, kiss the dice, bounce them of the back wall, set them if you want but don't bang them, pretty much pick them up and throw them.

[jetwet1]

Quick questions for anyone who knows the game well:

If I want to put some down on the 6 and 8, can I do that without putting some down on the pass / don't pass? Or do I first need to have it on the pass/don't pass? Also, if the table min is $5, is that the min I can put on 6 and 8? Last, obviously 6 and 8 are the most likely to come after the 7, so what are the payouts on 6 and 8? Is it even money, or is it less? Thanks!

 

If your just playing $5 on the 6 or 8 then yes it will be an even money bet, you need to go to $6 to get the odds.

 

Also if your only intending on betting $5 there is a spot in the corner that says 6/8, it also pays even money, but it makes the dealers life a lot easier if there is a busy game going on.

 

Oh you will get rated for double odd's including bets placed through the come.

[TheVegasMan]

Vegasman

 

What casino's did you work in?

Started at El Cortez, accepted a transfer to the Plaza, took bad advice from a friend and went to Casino Royale, then the Fremont, Luxor, Orleans and Stardust.

[TheVegasMan]

Quick questions for anyone who knows the game well:

If I want to put some down on the 6 and 8, can I do that without putting some down on the pass / don't pass? Or do I first need to have it on the pass/don't pass? Also, if the table min is $5, is that the min I can put on 6 and 8? Last, obviously 6 and 8 are the most likely to come after the 7, so what are the payouts on 6 and 8? Is it even money, or is it less? Thanks!

The only person required to be the Pass or Don't Pass is the shooter. You can bet anything you want without betting on the Pass or Don't pass. You can bet that a number will or will not roll before a 7.

 

Payoffs are: 9:5 that the 4 or 10 will roll it's 2:1 when placed as odds on the Pass line or a come bet or when you "Buy" these numbers, less 5% commission aka "the vig".

 

7:5 on the 5 and 9 3:2 when you "Buy" them or when the odds are on the pass line or a come bet.

 

7:6 on the 6 or 8 6:5 when placed as odds.

 

If you want to bet that a number will not roll you "Lay against" that number. The 4 and 10 pay 1:2, the 5 and 9 pay 2:3 and the 6 and 8 pay 5:6 less a 5% vig on the amount that you will win.

[Mrs.C05]

My husband is not an huge player of craps, but he knows how to play it and likes it. I did notice that the dealers would not allow blowing, kissing or tapping of the dice. They would allow them to set them as long as they didn't tap, kiss or blow on them afterwards. Otherwise, they called no roll.

[MadManOfBethesda]

You are wrong in saying Mack is wrong. What I believe you fail to realize is that until you are betting more than 5xs odds (See my previous post), there is no (Zero, Nada, Zilch) difference in the payoffs between a place bet and a come bet with odds.

 

Again, if you're talking about being in Las Vegas where you can go to another casino quite easily, that is one thing. We're talking about playing on a ship, where the one or two tables are your only choice.

 

On a $120 place bet on the 6 or 8 (When was the last time you had that much bet on them?) You get paid $140. $20 pass line with $100 odds pays $140.

 

No, I am not wrong, we are just interpreting the situation differently. While the payoffs are identical, the odds are quite different. And that is the point (pun not intended) I was trying to make with Mack.

 

What you and Mack are failing to take into consideration is that a line bet with odds is in fact two separate bets, whereas a place bet is only one bet.

 

The only way for the odds to be the same on both a line and place bet would be if you waited until the point was established and then placed your $20 on the line with the $100 odds behind it. That and only that would then have the same odds as placing the number. I am sure that you'd agree that that would be a stupid way to play the pass line as you lose out by not being there for the come out role - - - the only time the player actually has the advantage over the house.

 

Let's look at it another way. What has better odds: Putting $20 on the pass line and then playing 5X odds or, making a $120 place bet on the 6? As you are no doubt aware, the house advantage on the pass line bet with odds is only 0.326% whereas the advantage for the house on the place bet on the 6 is 1.52%.

 

And that gets us back to Mack's assertion that it is better to place bets because the house credits the full amount of a place bet, but not the odds bet behind the pass line. The reason is that the house can count on winning almost five times as much money on the place bets in this scenario.

[TheVegasMan]

No, I am not wrong, we are just interpreting the situation differently. While the payoffs are identical, the odds are quite different. And that is the point (pun not intended) I was trying to make with Mack.

 

What you and Mack are failing to take into consideration is that a line bet with odds is in fact two separate bets, whereas a place bet is only one bet.

 

The only way for the odds to be the same on both a line and place bet would be if you waited until the point was established and then placed your $20 on the line with the $100 odds behind it. That and only that would then have the same odds as placing the number. I am sure that you'd agree that that would be a stupid way to play the pass line as you lose out by not being there for the come out role - - - the only time the player actually has the advantage over the house.

 

Let's look at it another way. What has better odds: Putting $20 on the pass line and then playing 5X odds or, making a $120 place bet on the 6? As you are no doubt aware, the house advantage on the pass line bet with odds is only 0.326% whereas the advantage for the house on the place bet on the 6 is 1.52%.

 

And that gets us back to Mack's assertion that it is better to place bets because the house credits the full amount of a place bet, but not the odds bet behind the pass line. The reason is that the house can count on winning almost five times as much money on the place bets in this scenario.

Are you playing to win? Or playing for comps?

 

MickMack stated the proper payoffs and you said he was wrong. He said nothing about house advantage, just the payoffs and you said he was wrong. That's all I'm saying. he was not wrong, you were wrong in saying he was wrong.

 

After the point has been established it does not matter if you have a place bet, pass line bet with odds or a come bet with odds. Unless you have the chance to place more than 3-4-5xs odds, a place bet is better than a come bet or pass line bet with odds.

 

The come out roll is what gives the pass line the lower house advantage over a place bet. And the House advantage is based on millions of rolls. Short term any bet can be bad or good.

 

Talking about 5 times odds on a cruise forum is pointless (Pun intended) as double odds are all that is allowed. And with only double odds allowed place bets are better than pass line or come bets.

[jessemon]

OK...In the middle of this funny conversation......

What's the "point"......LOL......:p:p

I was going to really comment but I decided to "pass"....:D

[MadManOfBethesda]

Are you playing to win? Or playing for comps?

 

Actually I play for three reasons: to win, receive comps, and entertainment value. (And speaking of entertainment value, that may explain my prediliction for making prop bets, aka sucker bets).

 

And as for comps, although I am not a whale by any stretch of the imagination, I am a rated player with a line of credit who receives rfb when I visit Vegas (usually 2x/year). Although I have a line of credit with CCL corporate as well and play with markers at the tables, my comps are limited to a few free drinks.

 

MickMack stated the proper payoffs and you said he was wrong. He said nothing about house advantage, just the payoffs and you said he was wrong. That's all I'm saying. he was not wrong, you were wrong in saying he was wrong.

 

I will concede this fact. I was in error for stating simply that he was wrong without elaborating that I was referring to the odds being different and thus the house advantage being different. I should have noted that his payoff examples were correct nonetheless.

[MadManOfBethesda]

If I remember right most of the big casions in Vegas offer 3.4.5 x odds(ie number 4 and 10 is 3 x odds, 5 and 9 is 4 x odds and 6 and 8 is 5 x odds) now if you placeyour bet direct on the number if will pay the same as these odds

 

example

 

Vegas

8 is the point $25 on the line $125 odds (total $150) payoff is $175

9 is the point $25 on the line $100 odds (total $125) payoff is $175

 

Ship

8 is the point, place $150 on 8, payoff is $175

9 is the point, place $125 on 9, payoff is $175

 

also when you place your numbers your average bet is higher (if rated) as casinos dont rate your odds.

 

I think this is correct

 

Let me try and make one other point about your post. As I highlighted, you seem to be contending that since the payoffs are the same and the casino will rate you higher, you are better off placing your bets rather than playing the pass line with odds.

 

I disagree completely with that philosophy.

 

A person would be much better off making a $25 pass line bet and then - - if he didn't win on a 7/11 and a point is established - - putting $125 behind, rather than just placing the full $150 on the 6. By doing it the way you suggest in order to be rated higher, your expected loss will be almost 500% greater than if you played the pass line with 5x odds.

 

I hope that helps to clear up why I said that you were wrong in my earlier response.

[donaldsc]

but there is nothing worse on a hot roll !

 

There is no such thing as a "hot roll". Each toss of the dice is an independent event that is totally unaffected by the previous roll(s). This is why most gamblers eventually lose - they do not understand statistics.

 

For example, if you flip a coin 9 times and it comes up heads each time, the odds of heads on the 10th flip is still 1 in 2.

 

DON

[jondirk]

There is no such thing as a "hot roll". Each toss of the dice is an independent event that is totally unaffected by the previous roll(s). This is why most gamblers eventually lose - they do not understand statistics.

 

For example, if you flip a coin 9 times and it comes up heads each time, the odds of heads on the 10th flip is still 1 in 2.

 

DON

 

There may not be any such thing as a "hot roll" but whatever you want to call it, I've sure been a participant in several. Not as the shooter but as someone getting rich off of someone else's "good luck".

[guru66]

There is no such thing as a "hot roll". Each toss of the dice is an independent event that is totally unaffected by the previous roll(s). This is why most gamblers eventually lose - they do not understand statistics.

 

For example, if you flip a coin 9 times and it comes up heads each time, the odds of heads on the 10th flip is still 1 in 2.

 

DON

 

So "lucky dice" are the same thing as a "hot roll" or "hot dice" when a shooter is standing there for 1/2 hour throwing the dice and I'm raking in chips. What do you want to call it?? I prefer to call it hot rather than lucky but it's the same thing. Regardless of it being a mere coincidence when the same shooter or 2 at a table roll the dice on several different occassions for 2 straight hours and the other shooters at the table are just passing the dice around to the "hot rollers" and everyone's building mountains of chips. Call it luck, hot dice, hot roll, mere coincidence...who cares what it's called?? I just don't get your post. I understand that so called hot roller of the dice has just a good of a chance to throw a 7 than the lady next to him who threw 3 straight 7's following her point but I'm gonna play more aggressively w/ the hot roller than the one who's ice cold. I'm sure everyone who has ever played the game of craps have seen the same guy/gal at a craps table who got hot on a couple/few different rolls just like they have seen someone at the same table not be able to make the point continuously. Ever see a raucous table that you can't get a spot at and the table next to it is practically empty?? I'd bet there is one or 2 at the table that are making a lot of points and several who are just passing the dice to their left

[crusinpsychRN]

Playing craps on a cruise ship may be the worst odds in casino at 2 X odds. Most casinos are predominantly 5x odds. For those who do not understand craps it's a little difficult to get all this but when playing the "point" or the number that hockey puck is sitting above after the come out roll and you put chips behind the line backin up the pass this is your odds play and should be maximized to take full advantage of your odds. be. On a ship you can only play 2.5 times your pass line bet on a 6 or 8 and 2x all other #'s w/ full 2x odds. In a normal casino w/ 5Xodds a player can play 5X their pass line play on 6 or 8...4X on 5&9 & 3 X on 4&10. I c a lot of players not taking advantage of the best odds on the table and putting the amount behind pass line that is = to what's on the pass...big no no...at least play double and to have full odds and/or play up to the limit amount. House edge on a ship w/ full 2x odds w/ player taking odds is .606% (horrible) and .326 at 5X odds. This isnt exactly layman terms but plain and simply craps on a cruise a decided house advantage over a true craps table w/ 5X odds. Confused yet? I'll talk about the come bet if not. :eek:

 

And you learned to speak this foreign tongue in which class?

[guru66]

And you learned to speak this foreign tongue in which class?

 

for those w/ a 1st grade reading level like yourself I never intended for you to understand. It's a minimum age requirement of 18 sometimes 21 to enter a casino so check back when you get there and in the meantime don't get frustrated if things you read appear difficult, it will improve.

[pcb412]

There is no such thing as a "hot roll". Each toss of the dice is an independent event that is totally unaffected by the previous roll(s). This is why most gamblers eventually lose - they do not understand statistics.

 

For example, if you flip a coin 9 times and it comes up heads each time, the odds of heads on the 10th flip is still 1 in 2.

 

DON

 

While what you say may be true mathematically (and is what I learned during my two semesters of graduate level probability and statistics), if you've ever played on a hot table, it defies logic. I've seen the same shooter play for 45 minutes and never roll a seven except on a come out roll. Probability says one in every 6 rolls should be a seven.

 

As far as the previous poster, craps shooters (myself included) have learned to be superstitious and 'know' that if the dice hit someone else, or fly off the table, there is a very high chance that the next roll will be a 7.

 

My question though, since the comps seem to be so meager, why play for comps? :confused:I can see if you're in Vegas or Foxwoods , where they have competition, the comps can be of value, like free rooms and meals. Are people really playing BJ at $100/hand for 4 hours so they can get some 'free' drinks? In real casinos you can get free drinks just for playing or being with a player, without having to register in advance for comps. Doesn't make sense to me. I play just for entertainment and the chance to win some money at the table.

[Casino Player]

Just wondering if the tables are busy? And does the Fascination have craps tables? Thanks!

 

All of the Carnival ships have a craps table. It is one of the most popular games in an American Casino. It is not played in Europe. It is the only game in a Casino where a player can get true odds.

On Carnival Cruise Line they usually have a $5 dollar table with 2X odds. This is the norm in Las Vegas. However, there are better games where 3X odds or more could be played. In Atlantic City they play 5X odds at all times. In Las Vegas the old Binions Horseshoe Hotel/Casino had 10X odds and 20X odds in June. Craps is a fun game and I hope you enjoy playing.

On Carnival Cruise Line I have noticed that they craps table is open from the late morning or early afternoon until closing time on sea days. On most other cruise lines the craps table opens after seven p.m.

[Casino Player]

While what you say may be true mathematically (and is what I learned during my two semesters of graduate level probability and statistics), if you've ever played on a hot table, it defies logic. I've seen the same shooter play for 45 minutes and never roll a seven except on a come out roll. Probability says one in every 6 rolls should be a seven.

 

As far as the previous poster, craps shooters (myself included) have learned to be superstitious and 'know' that if the dice hit someone else, or fly off the table, there is a very high chance that the next roll will be a 7.

 

My question though, since the comps seem to be so meager, why play for comps? :confused:I can see if you're in Vegas or Foxwoods , where they have competition, the comps can be of value, like free rooms and meals. Are people really playing BJ at $100/hand for 4 hours so they can get some 'free' drinks? In real casinos you can get free drinks just for playing or being with a player, without having to register in advance for comps. Doesn't make sense to me. I play just for entertainment and the chance to win some money at the table.

 

I think the probability of a seven coming out is one in every five rolls, but, I am not 100% positive. If the dice hit someone's hand or fly off the table there is no more chance of the next roll being a seven than on any other number coming up.

If you've played for a length of time then you should know that many times numbers will come up out of probability. I've even seen and had it happen to me where many numbers will come up, including rolling a ten three times in a row, out of proportion to their probability. This is called a hot table. This is a flucuation in probability. You could also have a flucuation in probability where seven comes up very often such as right after a point is established. This is called a cold table. Craps players tend to make money on a "hot table" and lose money on a "cold table." By the way, I've been playing craps for almost twenty years.

[Casino Player]

I normally play the "don't" side since there are more ways to throw a 7 than any other number. If the shooter is hot, I'll change.

 

The funniest thing I ever saw in a Casino was a shooter playing the don't. He was a hot shooter and rolled the dice for 25 minutes. He also ran out of money since he kept making don't pass bets and don't come bets.

[MadManOfBethesda]

I think the probability of a seven coming out is one in every five rolls, but, I am not 100% positive.

 

No, it is 1:6. Six ways to make a seven out of 36 possibilities.

 

1 & 6

2 & 5

3 & 4

4 & 3

5 & 2

6 & 1

[Casino Player]

The Fascination has a craps table. I enjoyed it very much in November and am looking forward to visiting it again on Thursday!:D

 

Lots of good advice in previous posts. I normally play the line with odds and then across the board once the point is set. This way I rake it a little with every non-"crappy" roll and my pile grows nicely! Of course when the table gets cold you have to walk away or it will drain you dry!

 

As for crowds, I've found very quiet tables on my last few times - which I try my best to remedy.

 

Me to the rest of the players (before I roll): "What do we want?"

The rest of the players once they have been coached (as I roll): "MONEY!"

 

If you hear this in a casino, you are probably cruising with me!:cool:

 

Are you coming up to NYC to take a ship? We need some players at the table. Sometimes tables can be quiet. After I get to a table it doesn't stay quiet for long. After I lost my voice on a few cruises I try not to be that vocal anymore.

[Casino Player]

They might have what we call a "Tub" a full sized table has room for 16 players. A tub has room for 6-8 players. A full sized table can have 4 casino employees on it: Stickman, two base dealers and a boxman. A tub is usually ran by one dealer and may or may not have a supervisor.

 

What about the relief dealer? Do the dealers not take breaks?

[MadManOfBethesda]

 

On Carnival Cruise Line they usually have a $5 dollar table with 2X odds. This is the norm in Las Vegas.

 

No, it is not the norm in Vegas. I have been going to LV an average of 2x/yr for the last 30 years and I can't remember the last time I came across a casino on the strip that only offered double odds.

[Casino Player]

I too am a blackjack person but have been wondering about craps and the pass line. So this has been very helpful. I am going to read everything I can find on it before I sail 5/2 (Fascination).

 

Blackjack gives the casino too high an edge. Just think about it, BJ pays even money if you win. The only edge a player has is if BJ is dealt and then it pays only 3-2. That is the equivilent of making a point when 5 or 9 is the point.