Do any ships have fresh water pools?

[me13lake]

I read the thread above, and I'm not too sure what the situation is regarding chlorination of the pools . Regardless of the source of the water used (i.e. sea water, desalinated sea water, or other), is chlorine always added? :confused:

 

I'm not worried about the salt content it's the chlorine content that I'm interested in!

 

That is, please can you let me known whether the pools on these ships are:

 

(1) always chlorinated

(2) never chlorinated

(3) it depending on the source of the water used, if so please explain when they are chlorinated.

 

Thanks!! :)

 

M

[will773]

Oasis and Allure of the Seas have all freshwater pools, except for the beach pool.

[CruiserBruce]

This is a two year old thread. Info can easily be out of date.

 

Chlorine is probably the world's most common water treatment chemical, particularly in places like public pools. I would expect chlorine to be used in virtually all public pools, including on cruise ships, and whether the water is salt water or not. Chlorination is done to kill unwanted bacteria and viruses, and prevent said undesirables from arriving in the pools from the passengers.

 

As to whether the water is salt or fresh, that varies by cruise line.

Edited November 13, 2011 by CruiserBruce

[Traveling_Dragon]

It sounds like some ships drain and refill the pools nightly. Does anyone know NCL's practice? Also, if the ship brings in new water from the ocean, doesn't that make the water very cold?

 

Thanks!

[CruiserBruce]

It sounds like some ships drain and refill the pools nightly. Does anyone know NCL's practice? Also, if the ship brings in new water from the ocean, doesn't that make the water very cold?

 

Thanks!

 

This is best asked on the NCL board, as it is specific to NCL.

 

The can run the water past heat sources, or thru a heater to heat it. Depending on when and where you are sailing, the sea water may already be warm. Water temps in the Caribbean can be 80 degrees.

Edited November 13, 2011 by CruiserBruce

[BruceMuzz]

Just so it's clear, no ships have freshwater pools. They all use sea water. Princess, Royal Caribbean, Disney, and whoever else advertises "fresh water," pump the sea water through an intricate filter system to remove most of the salt, making it more "fresh."

 

Cruise ships can not have standard chlorinated pools because they have to be able to drain the pools for numerous reasons. Most importantly, for safety, is to avoid free-surface effect in rough seas.

 

Uuugghhhh, not quite correct.

 

Over the past several years, the cost of desalinating sea water has skyrocketed with the high cost of fuel. In many ports it is now less expensive to bunker fresh water at the pier than it is to produce it ourselves at sea.

In the Caribbean today, most of the fresh water on a ship was purchased in port.

 

It is true that we do not have "standard chlorinated pools" on ships. We are required by USPH to use far more chlorine and bromine in our pools than most pools ashore.

And yes, we do often drain the pools during rough weather, and also to dump the pollution into the sea and re-fill the pools.

[smeyer418]

FYI desalted water is the same water you drink on the ship. Some ships use the same desalted water for the pools but that is relatively rare. If they desalt the water(or lessen the salt) its still technically fresh(not salted) water. Salt water pools are cheaper sort of but the salt water itself is highly corrosive and requires a lot of maintenance.

 

On the Bermuda runs- Bermuda does not sell any water to the cruise lines. So they either buy the water in NY or NJ or make it as they travel there and back- mostly by reverse osmosis. When a cruise ship buys water it must come from a certified source and they are required to check it themselves.

 

BTW the primary reason for chlorine in pools at your home is to kill the bacteria so the pool will be clear-not cloudy. Pools were once the main source of Polio- a disease that is almost unheard of now in the US. I don't remember when a pool of any kind was a source of a reported out break but I wouldn't swim in the Gowanus canal if I were you....

Edited November 13, 2011 by smeyer418

[Aquahound]

Uuugghhhh, not quite correct.

 

Over the past several years, the cost of desalinating sea water has skyrocketed with the high cost of fuel. In many ports it is now less expensive to bunker fresh water at the pier than it is to produce it ourselves at sea.

In the Caribbean today, most of the fresh water on a ship was purchased in port.

 

It is true that we do not have "standard chlorinated pools" on ships. We are required by USPH to use far more chlorine and bromine in our pools than most pools ashore.

And yes, we do often drain the pools during rough weather, and also to dump the pollution into the sea and re-fill the pools.

 

You quoted a post of mine from over 2.5 years ago. What I posted back then was in line with what was described to me on a ship.....3 years ago. (uuugghhhh ;))

Edited November 13, 2011 by Aquahound

[boogs]

Uuugghhhh, not quite correct.

 

Over the past several years, the cost of desalinating sea water has skyrocketed with the high cost of fuel.

 

As you said "Uuugghhhh, not quite correct."

 

Recent technologies on many newer ships now use waste heat from the engines to distill salt water at zero additional fuel costs. This is called "flash evaporation". The waste heat evaporates the water which is then collected and treated with appropriate chemicals to make it drinkable, both for taste and health reasons. The residual salt is collected and safely disposed of once at the dock. This results in cost savings over buying water from an on shore source.

[Hlitner]

Just so it's clear, no ships have freshwater pools. They all use sea water. Princess, Royal Caribbean, Disney, and whoever else advertises "fresh water," pump the sea water through an intricate filter system to remove most of the salt, making it more "fresh."

 

Cruise ships can not have standard chlorinated pools because they have to be able to drain the pools for numerous reasons. Most importantly, for safety, is to avoid free-surface effect in rough seas.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. Princess and HA (not sure about the others) do make fresh water from salt water (flash evaporator systems) and this water is absolutely pure and similar to distilled water. In fact, they add back some minerals to use it for drinking water just to give it some taste. This is the same water used in the pools and they do use chlorinaters or bromine just like any home pool. You will often see the Pool staff testing water with the same test kits we use at home.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

You are correct. Perhaps I didn't explain it right, which would be my bad. The point I was making is that the water still comes from the sea.

 

The real point is that virtually ALL water "...comes from the sea..." -- rainfall is simply re-condensed evaporated seawater. The "fresh" water most of us drink ona ship - , either tap water, in tea, coffee, lemonade, ice, soup, etc. is largely sea water desalinated on the ship -- and is actually fresher than what you probably get at home.

[Aquahound]

We will have to agree to disagree. Princess and HA (not sure about the others) do make fresh water from salt water (flash evaporator systems) and this water is absolutely pure and similar to distilled water.

 

How about if I agree to agree with you. ;) That's actually what I think I was saying. I really don't remember because the post you quoted is over 2.5 years old. I think I was just saying the water still comes from the sea daily opposed to being like a hotel pool where the water is not changed very often.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Aquahound

[Hlitner]

We should have added that even on ships that use sea water, that water is filtered and chemically treated (with chlorine-like products) so its really nothing like seawater. We actually prefer the salt water because its easier to float :).

 

Hank

[BruceMuzz]

As you said "Uuugghhhh, not quite correct."

 

Recent technologies on many newer ships now use waste heat from the engines to distill salt water at zero additional fuel costs. This is called "flash evaporation". The waste heat evaporates the water which is then collected and treated with appropriate chemicals to make it drinkable, both for taste and health reasons. The residual salt is collected and safely disposed of once at the dock. This results in cost savings over buying water from an on shore source.

 

You are correct. The ship I manage has this technology and equipment onboard. But we have a challenge with waste heat from the engines. There isn't enough of it.

 

Priorities for recycled engine heat are:

1. Steam for galleys and laundry.

2. Hot water for cabins and galleys.

3. Heat for swimming pools.

 

Whatever waste heat is left over is used to produce fresh water.

But we are in the Caribbean right now, meaning very few opportunities to produce large quantities of fresh water from Sea Water.

 

Last week my ship produced fresh water at an average cost of US$7 per ton.

We bunkered fresh water at several ports at an average cost of US$3.50 per ton.

We consume 2,500 tons of fresh water every day.

The costs - and savings - add up very quickly.

[boogs]

You are correct. The ship I manage has this technology and equipment onboard. But we have a challenge with waste heat from the engines. There isn't enough of it.

 

Priorities for recycled engine heat are:

1. Steam for galleys and laundry.

2. Hot water for cabins and galleys.

3. Heat for swimming pools.

 

Whatever waste heat is left over is used to produce fresh water.

But we are in the Caribbean right now, meaning very few opportunities to produce large quantities of fresh water from Sea Water.

 

Last week my ship produced fresh water at an average cost of US$7 per ton.

We bunkered fresh water at several ports at an average cost of US$3.50 per ton.

We consume 2,500 tons of fresh water every day.

The costs - and savings - add up very quickly.

 

Thanks for the additional information. I find it interesting to learn more about how a cruise ship works. The fact that each day your ship spends between $9,000 and $17,000 just to supply water gives us a fascinating behind the scenes look at one factor of how expensive it really is to run a cruise ship.

[toots62001]

The ships that we were on in the Carribean being Holland America had fresh water pools and they were great. The Eurodam, and the Zandam, fantastic cruises. The Norwegian line had salt water pools and they were virtually empty, their hot tubs by the kids pool had fresh water and there was always a waiting line.

[BruceMuzz]

As you said "Uuugghhhh, not quite correct."

 

Recent technologies on many newer ships now use waste heat from the engines to distill salt water at zero additional fuel costs. This is called "flash evaporation". The waste heat evaporates the water which is then collected and treated with appropriate chemicals to make it drinkable, both for taste and health reasons. The residual salt is collected and safely disposed of once at the dock. This results in cost savings over buying water from an on shore source.

 

Still not quite correct.

I am now on a newer ship that uses "waste heat" from the engines for flash evaporation. But none of that heat is wasted anymore. So if we use that heat for distilling water, we cannot use it to create steam for the laundry and galley, or to make hot water for showers.

 

We only have enough "waste heat" for distillation or steam and hot water production when we are running more than 3 engines. That means we can only distill water or heat your shower water on high speed runs. Our company - like the others - is making every effort to reduce high speed runs to an absolute minimum. On some itineraries we have only one or two of these opportunities, which will not allow us to produce enough fresh water - or steam or hot water - that we need.

 

When we make fresh water onboard with engine heat, we are forced to fire up the boilers to make steam and hot water - which requires expensive fuel. One way or another, we have to pay for it. With fuel prices still climbing, it is far less expensive in most ports to buy water rather than making it at sea.

[BruceMuzz]

I read the thread above, and I'm not too sure what the situation is regarding chlorination of the pools . Regardless of the source of the water used (i.e. sea water, desalinated sea water, or other), is chlorine always added? :confused:

 

I'm not worried about the salt content it's the chlorine content that I'm interested in!

 

That is, please can you let me known whether the pools on these ships are:

 

(1) always chlorinated

(2) never chlorinated

(3) it depending on the source of the water used, if so please explain when they are chlorinated.

 

Thanks!! :)

 

 

M

 

All ship's swimming pools are treated according to very strict regulations from the US Public Health Service.

Fresh water pools are always chlorinated.

Salt water pools are never chlorinated. The water is dumped every 24 hours or so and replaced by new salt water.

[Sue Do-Over]

Remember that chlorine (in bleach and pool chemicals) evaporates quickly, and is rendered useless. Bleach actually breaks down into salt and water with exposure to air, which is why it's safe to use on food surfaces and baby items.

 

The salt in sea water doesn't evaporate... keeping the chemical balance much more stable, doesn't need Ph adjustment, etc. It's certainly cheaper and safe do dump the seawater each night and pump/filter a new batch each morning without impacting the sea life significantly.

 

But, holy cow, if you're not EXPECTING a salt water pool, that first mouthful is a shocker!

[boogs]

Still not quite correct.

I am now on a newer ship that uses "waste heat" from the engines for flash evaporation. But none of that heat is wasted anymore. So if we use that heat for distilling water, we cannot use it to create steam for the laundry and galley, or to make hot water for showers.

 

We only have enough "waste heat" for distillation or steam and hot water production when we are running more than 3 engines. That means we can only distill water or heat your shower water on high speed runs. Our company - like the others - is making every effort to reduce high speed runs to an absolute minimum. On some itineraries we have only one or two of these opportunities, which will not allow us to produce enough fresh water - or steam or hot water - that we need.

 

When we make fresh water onboard with engine heat, we are forced to fire up the boilers to make steam and hot water - which requires expensive fuel. One way or another, we have to pay for it. With fuel prices still climbing, it is far less expensive in most ports to buy water rather than making it at sea.

 

OK, I'm confused - as usual :) .

 

In post #39 dated November 2011 you replied to my post with "You are correct". Now you are replying to that same post again by saying "Still not quite correct". Have things changed in the last two years, or are you just clarifying your original post, or changing your mind. I really need to know how "correct" I really am. ;)

[ehfl]

Some ships have fresh (desalinated) water. RCL's larger ships have them.

 

Saltwater pools are better for your skin, hair, and eyes, but for me, it's not a big deal either way.

[goose30]

We have reached a new milestone. We took an almost 5 year old thread, answered and answered the question. Let the thread die and then brought it back to life again. Love these threads.

[BruceMuzz]

OK, I'm confused - as usual :) .

 

In post #39 dated November 2011 you replied to my post with "You are correct". Now you are replying to that same post again by saying "Still not quite correct". Have things changed in the last two years, or are you just clarifying your original post, or changing your mind. I really need to know how "correct" I really am. ;)

 

As I mentioned before, you are correct in saying that we have the new technology to produce fresh water using heat from the engines. But you are not quite correct in saying that there is no cost involved.

In fact, the millions of dollars spent installing the equipment that recycles the engine heat guarantees that the fresh water generated will be the most expensive in the world.

 

But aside from that, we have the ongoing and escalating fuel costs.

Our fuel costs doubled between 2008 and 2011.

They nearly doubled again between 2011 and 2014.

 

We used to just fire up the boilers when we needed to produce fresh water, and steam and hot water for the Hotel, and we used electric heaters for the swimming pools.

No longer.

It is just too expensive.

 

Until 2012, we always had an extra engine online, just in case the hotel needed more power, or we had a chance to make water.

No longer.

We can't afford it.

 

Until 2013, we always put an extra engine online when arriving or departing a port, in case we needed extra maneuvering power.

No longer.

We can't afford it.

 

Since 2012 my company has shortened port times, giving us an extra hour of slow speed sailing before and after each port call. This slower speed saves plenty fuel, but rarely gives us enough power or heat to produce fresh water.

 

Since 2011, up to 40% of the salary of each senior officer is based on water and fuel savings.

The very last thing any of us is willing to do is arrange to produce more fresh water at sea.

[sloopsailor]

Since 2012 my company h....

 

Are you allowed to mention what company? I am always curious when I read your comments, wondering if what you are describing is unique to a specific line, or is common across all of them. I prefer a couple of specific cruise lines, and it would help me understand better if what you describe is practiced by those lines, or one of the ones I am not so familiar with.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Are you allowed to mention what company? I am always curious when I read your comments, wondering if what you are describing is unique to a specific line, or is common across all of them. I prefer a couple of specific cruise lines, and it would help me understand better if what you describe is practiced by those lines, or one of the ones I am not so familiar with.

It's not P&O, that's for sure. They have heated fresh water pools on all 7 ships. The amount of fresh water used in the pools is a drop in the ocean (sorry!) compared with, say, the toilet system.