Why do we HAVE to use porters?

[Gonzo70]

I always figured anyone who touches my heavy luggage deserves a tip. I also look at it this way, the person taking your luggage can rip off your luggage tags and/or ship label if they want to get nasty.

 

What you are describing is not a tip - it is a shakedown.

 

Also whether or not the person deserves a tip depends as to whether or not they are simply carrying out their expected duties as part of a salaried job for which their employer is already generously compensating them (i.e. if they are longshoremen earning approximately $100,000 per year without tips) or if they are receiving low wages with the expectation of tips subsidizing their pay (i.e. skycaps at airports, bellmen at hotels). Carrying someone's luggage in and of itself does not equte a tip being necessary/required/expected: Nobody tips the luggage people at the airport who take your luggage off the plane, load it onto a cart and deliver it to the baggage carousel - they receive a full salary that is not reduced with the expectation of them receiving tips. IMHO that is the situation with the people taking your luggage at the cruise terminal - they are already being paid generously to do this - and that is why there are signs up reminding people they do not need to tip them (and apparently some ports as other posters have posted out have a rule that they are not allowed to accept tips).

[jmraggs]

What you are describing is not a tip - it is a shakedown.

 

Also whether or not the person deserves a tip depends as to whether or not they are simply carrying out their expected duties as part of a salaried job for which their employer is already generously compensating them (i.e. if they are longshoremen earning approximately $100,000 per year without tips) or if they are receiving low wages with the expectation of tips subsidizing their pay (i.e. skycaps at airports, bellmen at hotels). Carrying someone's luggage in and of itself does not equte a tip being necessary/required/expected: Nobody tips the luggage people at the airport who take your luggage off the plane, load it onto a cart and deliver it to the baggage carousel - they receive a full salary that is not reduced with the expectation of them receiving tips. IMHO that is the situation with the people taking your luggage at the cruise terminal - they are already being paid generously to do this - and that is why there are signs up reminding people they do not need to tip them (and apparently some ports as other posters have posted out have a rule that they are not allowed to accept tips).

 

Yes, it's exactly a "shake down" and I truly understand your point, but your description of the "luggage people" comparison isn't the same thing since there is no way to tip these people even if you wanted to :D I don't remember seeing any signs for "no tipping" in Miami, but I will definitely make a point to look next time!

[aurelius180]

Yes, it's exactly a "shake down" and I truly understand your point, but your description of the "luggage people" comparison isn't the same thing since there is no way to tip these people even if you wanted to :D I don't remember seeing any signs for "no tipping" in Miami, but I will definitely make a point to look next time!

 

 

When I was in Miami last month there were a ton of signs saying tipping is not required.

[Gonzo70]

Yes, it's exactly a "shake down" and I truly understand your point, but your description of the "luggage people" comparison isn't the same thing since there is no way to tip these people even if you wanted to :D I don't remember seeing any signs for "no tipping" in Miami, but I will definitely make a point to look next time!

 

Miami has multuiple signs saying one does not need to tip the porters (but it does not say not to tip them - simply that one does need to tip them). I have seen the signs myself my last two cruises. Other posters have reported seeing signs in other ports worded more strongly - stating not to tip.

 

If someone wanted to tip the luggage people at the airport they could; I am sure a quick visit to customer service for the particular airline would allow a person to make arrangements for this. I keep hearing several people (not you) on this topic saying if someone carries my bag, they deserve a tip. This is just not true. If someone carries your bag and is in a role where tipping is expected (i.e. skycaps, bellman) then yes, they deserve a tip. If someone is already being paid well to carry your bag, then no, they do not deserve a tip unless they do something extra for you that goes above their customary job duties.

[jmraggs]

I'll make sure I look for those signs next time, I am usually pulling the car up, going to the trunk and unloading the luggage, then taking off to the garage without taking time to "look around". Maybe after I drop the luggage off "without tip" if I do that, I'll have someone also get out of the car and watch the luggage to make sure nothing "happens" to it!

 

One thing I have learned out of these posts is if they really are earning high wages, then no tip for them. I just don't recall if the conversation ever ended up with the deciding factor of how much they earn or what they are actually called:D since 100 people have 100 different answers! Ok, I am kidding when I say that. I might even call the Port of Miami and ask them about these people if I can receive a straight answer out of them.:rolleyes:

[Gonzo70]

I might even call the Port of Miami and ask them about these people if I can receive a straight answer out of them.:rolleyes:

 

Let us know what they say if you do call. That would be interesting. :)

[jmraggs]

Let us know what they say if you do call. That would be interesting. :)

 

Well I did just that and I had a very interesting conversation with the Port Customer Service department which has cleared up many issues in my mind.

 

1. They are called "Porters" by the Port of Miami and they are members of the ILA (International Longshoremen's Association).

 

2. They make between $40 and $60 hr depending on how long they have been there and work a full day with overtime pay @1.5 hr. I was told it's pretty much a job where you have to know someone to get in.

 

3. He did confirm that there are numerous signs stating that there was no tip required and the Port stands firm on non-harassment of their cruise passengers.

 

The guy I spoke with said if a porter gets an attitude or remarks about something happening to their luggage for not receiving a tip, get their badge number and name and report them to security immediately, and funny enough he said if they run away, there are plenty of police or security around!. He said all porters are required to wear badges on their shirts with picture, badge number and name. Probably better to take a cell phone picture but a little more obvious why you are doing that. He also stated that if they are aware that you know who they are, you will be less likely to have something happen to your luggage because you know who to report.

 

He said Porters have been fired for harassing cruise passengers for tips and they seriously take a zero tolerance on that. I asked him what happens if they "loose" your luggage and you never receive it on the ship or they remove the name/ship tags, and all he said was that he really didn't have an answer to that question, but report the incident to the port upon arriving back (easy to say I guess) and give them the badge number and name of the person that took your luggage.

 

He said that the Port officials are not dumb because after you give the porter your luggage, all they do is place the luggage in a wheeled container at the curb and then someone else wheels the container into the scanning room and then on the ship. He said it would be extremely doubtful that anything would happen to your luggage in those stages and not many porters are willing to risk their high paying job over a tip that they didn't receive.

 

He said that if anyone has any problems with porters in Miami, they are to call the Port Customer Service line at 305-347-5515 and give them the porter's information.

 

I know most people probably don't want to go through all of this at the start of their vacation, but this was the conversation that we had, so people have to just do what they feel comfortable with.:) Seems to me that the Port has had problems in the past with "aggressive" porters looking for tips.:D

[linkerbink]

WHAT??? $40 to $60 per HOUR??? That's more than I ever made in the IT field with a college degree.:eek:

[Gonzo70]

Well I did just that and I had a very interesting conversation with the Port Customer Service department which has cleared up many issues in my mind.

 

1. They are called "Porters" by the Port of Miami and they are members of the ILA (International Longshoremen's Association).

 

2. They make between $40 and $60 hr depending on how long they have been there and work a full day with overtime pay @1.5 hr. I was told it's pretty much a job where you have to know someone to get in.

 

3. He did confirm that there are numerous signs stating that there was no tip required and the Port stands firm on non-harassment of their cruise passengers.

 

Wow, thanks so much for doing this and reporting back. Very interesting information. Maybe this will change the minds of some people on this thread who seemed rather insistent that they deserve a tip for handling their luggage. IMHO $40 to $60 (and possibe time-and-a-half bringing this figure to $60 to $90 per hour) does not merit tipping. I will certainly take the advice you received and obtain the name/badge number, snap a picture, and report the incident if I am harassed for not tipping on my next cruise. Not the best way to start a vacation, but I am not one to allow myself to be bullied/shaken down. I get enough of that here in Chicago with our highest-in-the-country sales tax. :D

[aurelius180]

Well I did just that and I had a very interesting conversation with the Port Customer Service department which has cleared up many issues in my mind.

 

1. They are called "Porters" by the Port of Miami and they are members of the ILA (International Longshoremen's Association).

 

2. They make between $40 and $60 hr depending on how long they have been there and work a full day with overtime pay @1.5 hr. I was told it's pretty much a job where you have to know someone to get in.

 

3. He did confirm that there are numerous signs stating that there was no tip required and the Port stands firm on non-harassment of their cruise passengers.

 

 

 

Thanks a bunch for the information! I learned quite a bit there. Sounds like they're not too fond of the union at the Port and he provided some good tips for travellers who experience any problems. :cool:

 

I have no problem tipping people for good service but this one never made much sense to me.

[luckyprincess]

Wow! Thank you for checking that out for all of us! I'm wondering - in a non-sarcastic way - if all the well meaning folks that said things like 'these people need a job" and "these poor guys are lifting heavy bags" and whatnot are swayed by this info? I've always tipped a couple of dollars because I assumed it was a tipped postition but that in no way is the case. They are making a great salary. Even if their hours were cut to 25 per week, as someone suggested, that would still be quite a lot of money. I won't tip next time and will not feel guilty - my bags are never that heavy since I have to be sure I can handle them with no problem. I will, however, jot the porters info down in a pleasant but obvious way just in case they may want to exact revenge for an imagined slight....

[linkerbink]

Wow! Thank you for checking that out for all of us! I'm wondering - in a non-sarcastic way - if all the well meaning folks that said things like 'these people need a job" and "these poor guys are lifting heavy bags" and whatnot are swayed by this info? I've always tipped a couple of dollars because I assumed it was a tipped postition but that in no way is the case. They are making a great salary. Even if their hours were cut to 25 per week, as someone suggested, that would still be quite a lot of money. I won't tip next time and will not feel guilty - my bags are never that heavy since I have to be sure I can handle them with no problem. I will, however, jot the porters info down in a pleasant but obvious way just in case they may want to exact revenge for an imagined slight....

 

Well, although I certainly don't "stiff" someone who relies on tips for part of his/her living - such as the cabin attendants/wait staff (although I HATE the practice!), I no longer believe this applies to the "porters" at the piers! I guess from now on after my bags are put on the cart I'll just wait there next to it until someone else comes to take the cart to the ship. That way I can be more or less assured my bags will show up! As I stated in an earlier post, I resent the extortive atmosphere. I appreciate someone putting my heavy bag onto the cart, but if that's his job and he's getting paid $40 or more per hour to do it, forget the tip!

[cruzendude]

Now where are all the "these poor people only make $8.50 an hour" crowd.....probably at the port lifting bags and extorting tips! LMAO.....

 

as I have stated all along it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that ANY and ALL PORTS in the US are CONTROLLED by unions and you cant step foot near one without making an outrageous union salary....check out what the uneducated/former felon guy sitting in the security shack at the entrance to any port makes....$40 an hour minimum unless he has only been there for a year or so...why do you think you have to "know someone" to get these jobs.....the entire union operation is a shakedown on the taxpayers

 

We ALL need to stop tipping these shakedown artists....its NOT hard to let someone know you know who they are without being rude or confrontational...

 

I just let them see me looking closely at their badges and then say "Thank you Fred" of whatever his name is and he just thinks Im being friendly but he also KNOWS I know who he is....

[Esmerelda]

Wow...after finding that information out....I certainly am glad that I did NOT tip the guy that got in my face on my honeymoon. If I would have known all of this info I would have definitely reported it.

 

Thanks jmraggs for taking the time to post that info. It was very interesting and cleared up alot of questions.

 

:)

[cruzendude]

Wow...after finding that information out....I certainly am glad that I did NOT tip the guy that got in my face on my honeymoon. If I would have known all of this info I would have definitely reported it.

 

Thanks jmraggs for taking the time to post that info. It was very interesting and cleared up alot of questions.

 

:)

 

Good for you!:D

[buckanear]

He said that the Port officials are not dumb because after you give the porter your luggage, all they do is place the luggage in a wheeled container at the curb and then someone else wheels the container into the scanning room and then on the ship. He said it would be extremely doubtful that anything would happen to your luggage in those stages and not many porters are willing to risk their high paying job over a tip that they didn't receive.

 

Thank you for this post...

I also want to add to this section. On top of them only handling your luggage for maybe a minute or two and then it's probably to someone in security, they are usually running their butts off and don't have much time to be vindictive. Not that it couldn't happen, it's just that the ones that are extorting people are playing on the fear, not the fact that they probably haven't actually done something malicious.

[Gracie115]

WOW! Well I am one of those "$8.50/hr people' who said they should get their tip....now...well not so much..I wonder why it's taken this long for something like this to come to light....thanks for doing the research....

[buckanear]

WOW! Well I am one of those "$8.50/hr people' who said they should get their tip....now...well not so much..I wonder why it's taken this long for something like this to come to light....thanks for doing the research....

 

I think this (the subject of porter salary) was actually discussed a while back, although not to this much length/detail and it may have been a side tangent in another thread. My memory is starting to get fuzzier each year :D

 

I was one of the people who tipped the porter generously thinking they were minimum wage workers schleping my heavy luggage.

[mistyflannigan]

You are helping the economy by keeping these people employed. For the same reason, you should avoid the self-service check-out and go to the live cashier to keep that person working as well. If you can afford to go on a cruise, you can afford a few bucks to tip the porter.

[Cruzaholic41]

Well, I am going to have to add to the confusion here; not for me, but for those who will or will not believe me.

 

My sister's ex-husband is a porter at the Port of Miami. He has been there for at least 5 years and does not make a six figure salary. He does not make $40-$60 dollars an hour. He does get paid a salary, but it is pretty low.

 

Furthermore, he is not part of the union that encompasses the longshoremen and the rest of the pier workers that work behind the scenes. The porters, or fronters as he called it, were not part of the same union, benefits, and pay as the men and women working the pier.

 

In the afternoons, he works a second job as a part-time security officer at one of the downtown highrises. This guy is barely scraping by. When he was married to my sister, she supported him, for the most part.

 

There you have it. I am speaking from personal knowledge. Don't believe it if you wish.

[buckanear]

I don't think they really have to worry about job security. Porter duty is usually a "side job" for port employees that is prized. Not to mention they do other things at the port on a cruiseship turnaround day.

[Richiebaseball]

Well, I am going to have to add to the confusion here; not for me, but for those who will or will not believe me.

 

My sister's ex-husband is a porter at the Port of Miami. He has been there for at least 5 years and does not make a six figure salary. He does not make $40-$60 dollars an hour. He does get paid a salary, but it is pretty low.

 

Furthermore, he is not part of the union that encompasses the longshoremen and the rest of the pier workers that work behind the scenes. The porters, or fronters as he called it, were not part of the same union, benefits, and pay as the men and women working the pier.

 

In the afternoons, he works a second job as a part-time security officer at one of the downtown highrises. This guy is barely scraping by. When he was married to my sister, she supported him, for the most part.

 

There you have it. I am speaking from personal knowledge. Don't believe it if you wish.

 

I believe you. First, anyone using scare tactics to get a tip should be reported and reprimanded. Second, it's amazing that any old Joe Schmo can call a place of business and find out how much someone makes just by asking. Not saying it didn't happen but I would be very skeptical of the information received. Can they do this where any of you work? Third, it's amazing to me that people feel it's any of their business as to how much money someone makes. Tip or not is a personal decision but I don't think I could decide not to simply because I felt someone makes "enough" money. Why should anyone get to decide how much is enough?

[Gonzo70]

Well, I am going to have to add to the confusion here; not for me, but for those who will or will not believe me.

 

My sister's ex-husband is a porter at the Port of Miami. He has been there for at least 5 years and does not make a six figure salary. He does not make $40-$60 dollars an hour. He does get paid a salary, but it is pretty low.

 

But does he take luggage from passengers boarding cruise ships? I am sure the Port of Miami has some porters, but my understanding is the people taking passengers' luggage as they board cruise ship are longshoremen functioning as porters. Jmraggs phone call would also support this as would lots of newspaper articles available via Google and what people have posted during prior threads who were relatives of longshoremen. Maybe there is a mixture at some ports of longshoremen and regular porters, but I think at many ports due to the union's influence it is exclusively longshoremen.

[Gonzo70]

I believe you. First, anyone using scare tactics to get a tip should be reported and reprimanded. Second, it's amazing that any old Joe Schmo can call a place of business and find out how much someone makes just by asking. Not saying it didn't happen but I would be very skeptical of the information received. Can they do this where any of you work? Third, it's amazing to me that people feel it's any of their business as to how much money someone makes. Tip or not is a personal decision but I don't think I could decide not to simply because I felt someone makes "enough" money. Why should anyone get to decide how much is enough?

 

If someone is employed directly or indirectly by a government agency, one's salary is public information and may be easily found by anybody via the internet.

 

Somebody's ball park salary is extremely important and relevant when making decisions about tipping. People in some professions earn a reduced salary because their salary is expected to be supplemented/subsidized by tipping. Other people have similar jobs but higher salaries because they are not expected to be tipped. This is the murky situation with the "porters" at the cruise terminals; they do the type of work that is often performed by low salaried people who one would generally tip (i.e. skycaps at airports and bellmen at hotels) but it appears their salary is several times higher - therefore one would not be expected to tip them.

 

If you ate at a restaurant and the menu stated that the waitstaff receives a generous salary and tips are not expected, would you still tip 15% to 20%?

[Gonzo70]

You are helping the economy by keeping these people employed. For the same reason, you should avoid the self-service check-out and go to the live cashier to keep that person working as well. If you can afford to go on a cruise, you can afford a few bucks to tip the porter.

 

Please read a thread before posting a response. You are not helping the economy by tipping a person who is earning $50 or $60 per hour (or more) to push your luggage a few feet - especially if they make a subtle threat about your luggage being lost if you do not give them enough money. You are simply allowing yourself to be bullied. Just because I can afford to go on a cruise does not mean that I want to waste my money.