Do all Panamax form factor ships have fully unobstructed decks?

[CarnivalPride]

I was wondering, does anyone know if all Panamax form factor ships have fully unobstructed decks?

 

I know that Carnival's Spirit Class, RCCL's Radiance Class, and the Costa Luminosa all have fully unobstructed decks. I think the Vista Class ships do as well. However, does anyone know if this is true for all Panamax ships?

[Atomica]

What do you mean by 'fully unobstructed decks'?

 

Are you talking about the wraparound promenade decks below the lifeboats?

[CarnivalPride]

What do you mean by 'fully unobstructed decks'?

 

Are you talking about the wraparound promenade decks below the lifeboats?

 

No, I am talking about being able to walk from bow to stern on every deck without having to traverse decks.

[dna1990]

I may not be grasping what you are trying to coorelate, but I don't think there is any specific "all" answer. Especially trying to confine list to panamax width.

 

And do you really mean "every" deck? And what do you mean by bow to stern? Like from outside or just from the first/last public space? Certainly the lowest/highest decks of any ship will have more likelihood of odd layouts or restricted non-public access ways.

 

I don't know about CCL Pride, but on the few older CCL ships I have been on - I find it true that you spend more time 'navigating' thru some public areas including having to go up/down to get somewhere. This is less prevalent on the RCCL ships I have sailed, but even then there are exceptions. For example Deck 2 on Voyager class, not all cabins accessible from same hallway, as the ice rink and some other areas interfere.

 

So if looking to pick a ship, yes study deck plans well. But I don't think there is a general rule or statement across cruiselines, or certainly any ship classes - that have 'fully' unobstructed.

 

I guess it just has me curious...why so interested?

[CarnivalPride]

I may not be grasping what you are trying to coorelate, but I don't think there is any specific "all" answer. Especially trying to confine list to panamax width.

 

And do you really mean "every" deck? And what do you mean by bow to stern? Like from outside or just from the first/last public space? Certainly the lowest/highest decks of any ship will have more likelihood of odd layouts or restricted non-public access ways.

 

I don't know about CCL Pride, but on the few older CCL ships I have been on - I find it true that you spend more time 'navigating' thru some public areas including having to go up/down to get somewhere. This is less prevalent on the RCCL ships I have sailed, but even then there are exceptions. For example Deck 2 on Voyager class, not all cabins accessible from same hallway, as the ice rink and some other areas interfere.

 

So if looking to pick a ship, yes study deck plans well. But I don't think there is a general rule or statement across cruiselines, or certainly any ship classes - that have 'fully' unobstructed.

 

I guess it just has me curious...why so interested?

 

Well, on Carnival's Spirit Class Panamax form-factor ships, you do not have to traverse floors to get from the front of the ship to the rear of the ship. The same is true with RCCL's Radiance Class and the Costa Luminosa, which are also Panamax form-factor ships. In the Carnival fleet, the Spirit Class are the ONLY class of ships to have such layout.

Also, Carnival's Fantasy Class ships are not Panamax, they are sub-Panamax. Panamax is defined as the largest size that can go through the Panama Canal. The Fantasy Class is smaller than Panamax, so it is considered sub-Panamax. Larger ships, such as the Destiny/Conquest/Splendor Class, are too wide to fit through the Panama Canal, so they are classified as Post-Panamax ships.

[kitty9]

Celebrity's M Class ships are like that. you can walk from the furthest front cabins to the furthest back cabins without going to other floors. You can also walk their top deck from front to back without any interference. But to be honest, I'm not sure what you're asking. Every ship I've been on, and in 61 cruises there have been a lot, I've not found one where you can't walk from the front to the back of the ship---and you don't have to go to different floors to do this.

[Atomica]

I see what you're getting at.

 

Some ships make you go up/down one deck to get to the dining rooms or certain public areas in the aft portion of the ship.

 

However, this has more to do with the individual ship designers and less with whether the ship is classed as Panamax or Post Panamax. For example: the Norwegian Sun, as well as the Norwegian Pearl both require you to go up one deck in order to gain entrance to the restaraunt all the way aft, and both of those ships are Panamax vessels.

 

There's no law or design rule anywhere that states if the ship is Post-panamax it has to have an interrupted layout. It's just something that the marine architects and interior design firms decide together.

[kitty9]

OK I get it. The QM2 is, imho, one of the worst designed ships I've been on. In order to get from The Queen's Room to another venue on the same deck, you have to go up or down a couple of decks because the Britannia Dining Room is in the way. Same for accessing one of the main pools. The Todd English restaurant is right inside from the pool and they don't allow you to cut through either restaurant to get where you want to go. I know the QM2 is not Panamax as she's too large to fit in the Canal, but this is one example of a ship where you cannot access all public areas without having to go up or down at least one deck to access those areas.

[Aplmac]

OK I get it. The QM2 is, imho, one of the worst designed ships I've been on.

In order to get from The Queen's Room to another venue on the same deck,

you have to go up or down a couple of decks because the Britannia Dining Room is in the way.

Same for accessing one of the main pools.

The Todd English restaurant is right inside from the pool and they don't allow you to cut through either restaurant

to get where you want to go.

I know the QM2 is not Panamax as she's too large to fit in the Canal,

but this is one example of a ship where you cannot access all public areas

without having to go up or down at least one deck to access those areas.

Interesting!

 

 

Also, for a ship of such PR and 'grandeur'...it's a bummer! :cool:

Sounds quite frustrating until you get used to it.

 

 

Imagine spending all that money for Class

...only to be obstructed here and there!

Thanks for the warning!

.

[jcl410]

> The Queen's Room to another venue on the same deck, you have to go up or down a couple of decks

 

In fact, it is only a one half deck down to get to the Queens room. There is a walk way on either side of the ship (listed as deck 3L). This allows the dining room to be full width. It's actually a pretty good solution.

 

Aloha,

 

John

[agabbymama]

On Celebrity Constellation, we were constantly being told, "you can't get there from here". We always seemed to be in the wrong spot, on the wrong deck. Having to go up a deck or down a deck to continue. We hated that about the Constellation.

 

 

I really like HAL ships, you get to the Promenade deck (completely circles the ship) and you can get anywhere you want to be, forward or aft. Really makes navigating the entire ship simple and easy.

[CarnivalPride]

What I personally don't understand is why Carnival chose to go with the old layout with obstructed dekcs for the Conquest Class and newer ships. The Spirit Class ships are the best designed ships in the Carnival fleet.

I don't see why anyone would prefer the obstructed layouts over the Spirit Class layout. I personally wish Carnival Corporation would bring in the Costa Luminosa design (a hybrid Spirit/Vista Class) to Carnival.

[Capt_BJ]

NO

 

the answer to your question is

 

NO

[kitty9]

On Celebrity Constellation, we were constantly being told, "you can't get there from here". We always seemed to be in the wrong spot, on the wrong deck. Having to go up a deck or down a deck to continue. We hated that about the Constellation.

 

 

I really like HAL ships, you get to the Promenade deck (completely circles the ship) and you can get anywhere you want to be, forward or aft. Really makes navigating the entire ship simple and easy.

 

What were you not able to access on Constellation? I'm curious because I've been on her numerous times, and being someone who uses a scooter, I've not had the problem of not being able to access areas of the ship.

[RatherBFishin]

I was wondering, does anyone know if all Panamax form factor ships have fully unobstructed decks?

 

To answer your question: No, it has nothing to do with being Pamamax sized.

 

The reason why is this: You may like the layout of the Spirit or Luminosa better than the Destiny / Conquest class. But with an extra 1000 people you need a second dining room. Putting the 2 dining rooms on either side of the Galley makes a ton of sense. And you end up with 1 deck where you can't walk from bow to stern because the dining rooms are two stories tall, but the Galley isn't.

 

Look at other ships that carry approx 3000 people and fit in about the same tonnage. For example Grand Princess isn't quite as funky. But has three smaller dining rooms, split between Aft and Midship. But the lower dining room on Deck 2 isn't on the same level as the Galley (tougher to service). Plus it's technically not front to rear accesible because they use the aft of that deck for crew space.

 

The bottom line is that Destiny / Conquest (and Fortune / Concordia) classes are amazingly profitable. They fit more people in a ship that isn't nearly as costly to construct as the other lines. And the Conquest class ships have the additional benefit of a really high Crew to Pax ratio (3.2) which makes them even more profitable.

 

And ultimately, that's a really important design criteria. Profitability.

[CarnivalPride]

To answer your question: No, it has nothing to do with being Pamamax sized.

 

The reason why is this: You may like the layout of the Spirit or Luminosa better than the Destiny / Conquest class. But with an extra 1000 people you need a second dining room. Putting the 2 dining rooms on either side of the Galley makes a ton of sense. And you end up with 1 deck where you can't walk from bow to stern because the dining rooms are two stories tall, but the Galley isn't.

 

Look at other ships that carry approx 3000 people and fit in about the same tonnage. For example Grand Princess isn't quite as funky. But has three smaller dining rooms, split between Aft and Midship. But the lower dining room on Deck 2 isn't on the same level as the Galley (tougher to service). Plus it's technically not front to rear accesible because they use the aft of that deck for crew space.

 

The bottom line is that Destiny / Conquest (and Fortune / Concordia) classes are amazingly profitable. They fit more people in a ship that isn't nearly as costly to construct as the other lines. And the Conquest class ships have the additional benefit of a really high Crew to Pax ratio (3.2) which makes them even more profitable.

 

And ultimately, that's a really important design criteria. Profitability.

 

But also remember about marketability. While the layout of the ship may not mean much, remember that the Spirit Class ships are very rich in amenities for ships of their size, and thus are more marketable than the Holiday or Fantasy Class ships.

[RatherBFishin]

But also remember about marketability. While the layout of the ship may not mean much, remember that the Spirit Class ships are very rich in amenities for ships of their size, and thus are more marketable than the Holiday or Fantasy Class ships.

 

That's true, and I'm not disputing that. The Spirit / Vista is a very successful class. They were designed for longer voyages (more fuel efficient), fit into smaller ports (and through the Panama Canal), and have a higher percentage of balcony cabins than the other Carnival / Costa ships.

 

However, they compliment the larger ships by offering variety. The larger ships still carry the lions share of passengers though. Carnival would not be able to hit their target price points if their fleet consisted of nothing but Spirit class ships. They are competing with RCI, not Crystal or Oceana. If you need any evidence, just look at the fact that they keep building more of the Destiny / Conquest ships. The Dream uses the same basic layout as well.

 

Plus as far as Marketability goes, it's not really fair to compare the Spirit to the Holiday (build in 16 years earlier). If you want to make that assertion, are you claiming that the Miracle is more marketable than the Freedom? I don't think the numbers would bear that out.

 

That's not a slam against smaller ships. But you asked why they don't build more of them. That's why. It's as much about price as it is amenities.

[CarnivalPride]

That's true, and I'm not disputing that. The Spirit / Vista is a very successful class. They were designed for longer voyages (more fuel efficient), fit into smaller ports (and through the Panama Canal), and have a higher percentage of balcony cabins than the other Carnival / Costa ships.

 

However, they compliment the larger ships by offering variety. The larger ships still carry the lions share of passengers though. Carnival would not be able to hit their target price points if their fleet consisted of nothing but Spirit class ships. They are competing with RCI, not Crystal or Oceana. If you need any evidence, just look at the fact that they keep building more of the Destiny / Conquest ships. The Dream uses the same basic layout as well.

 

Plus as far as Marketability goes, it's not really fair to compare the Spirit to the Holiday (build in 16 years earlier). If you want to make that assertion, are you claiming that the Miracle is more marketable than the Freedom? I don't think the numbers would bear that out.

 

That's not a slam against smaller ships. But you asked why they don't build more of them. That's why. It's as much about price as it is amenities.

 

Well, remeber that Costa is a sister company to Carnival, and they just introduced the Luminosa, which as basically a Spirit Class with the front and rear ends of the Vista Class, along with several other uprgrades. If Carnival were to introduce the Luminosa design to their fleet, I think it would be a nice upgrade from the Fantasy Class ships in a few ports. I am not suggesting Carnival should eliminate the Fantasy Class, but some ports could use an upgrade to a better and newer ship.

[RatherBFishin]

Well, remeber that Costa is a sister company to Carnival, and they just introduced the Luminosa, which as basically a Spirit Class with the front and rear ends of the Vista Class, along with several other uprgrades. If Carnival were to introduce the Luminosa design to their fleet, I think it would be a nice upgrade from the Fantasy Class ships in a few ports. I am not suggesting Carnival should eliminate the Fantasy Class, but some ports could use an upgrade to a better and newer ship.

 

I feel like we're changing the subject here. Carnival hasn't built a new Fantasy class ship since the Paradise in 1998. Plus those ships are also sub-Panamax sized. And they do not have the architectural design "flaw" that you were talking about (the dining rooms are located on a single deck, with nothing important cut off by the mid-ship DR).

 

However, the Fantasy class ships won't get phased out for another 10 years. Carnival just spent a ton renovating them. Their only real flaw is the lack of balcony cabins. But they make a good ship for cheap cruises out of secondary ports.

[DanJ]

That's true, and I'm not disputing that. The Spirit / Vista is a very successful class. They were designed for longer voyages (more fuel efficient), fit into smaller ports (and through the Panama Canal), and have a higher percentage of balcony cabins than the other Carnival / Costa ships.

 

 

The Spirit ships are longer than any of the other ships in the Carnival fleet so don't have any easier access to ports.