What do you do?

[GOIN2C]

I know this is my first posting, but I found this site and was compelled to write.

 

I just returned from my first cruise. I witnessed someone being injured on a ship sponsered excursion. A women had a very bad fall getting onto the excursion boat after a snorkeling event. The ladder was unstable and not suitable for anyone of any size or limitations. No limitations were suggested for the excursion and a lot of older people took it and they also had a lot problems getting on and off of the boat.

 

I prefer not to mention the cruise ship or company.

 

Now I am wondering if the ship holds any responsibility or are you on your own? I would be hesitant on going on another excursion if I knew the ship does not hold responsibility for the company they hire for their excursions. Should the cruiseline make sure the equiptment is suitable?

 

I know everyone should purchase travel insurance. I just wonder what a person should do if they are hurt badly because of obviously faulty equipment on a ship sponsered excursion?

 

I saw the woman a few times after the excursion and she was hardly able to walk. I felt so bad for her. Has anyone out here on CruiseCritic had this happen? What did you do?

[Kudos2Fly]

I have taken dive excursion through the ship and no I haven't experience this. I do know getting in and out of a boat in a water excursion is not an easy task sometimes even for healthy people.

 

There is "suppose" to be some type of over site from the cruise ship company. But how offend do they check the companies I don't know.

 

Did you say anything when you got back to the ship? That would have been the time to tell someone. If you didn't then write the company and tell them your concerns.

[ehfl]

The cruise line web site should list the level of physical activity required for each excursion. If this information was missing or innacurate on the cruise line web site, then please report it to them. They should provide the important information up front.

 

Now if people don't pay attention, that's another matter. But if the information is missing or innacurate, you really should report this to the line.

[GOIN2C]

I just looked the excursion up on the cruiseline website. Considered moderate activity level and restrictions said "N/A".

 

I am sorry to say I did not tell anyone. I wouldn't even know who to tell. At the time I thought I was minding my own business, but I can't help to think how this lovely trip was ruined for these people by someones negligence.

[OCruisers]

Hate hearing of this!

 

We were on a shore excursion (thru ship) recently where the activity level was WAY much more than stated. It happens!

[rjm1cc]

Send a note to the cruise company and tell then you think they should reevaluate the level of difficulty.

[Kudos2Fly]

GOIN2C I just looked the excursion up on the cruiseline website. Considered moderate activity level and restrictions said "N/A".

 

I am sorry to say I did not tell anyone. I wouldn't even know who to tell. At the time I thought I was minding my own business, but I can't help to think how this lovely trip was ruined for these people by someones negligence.

 

Shore excursion desk or the costumer service desk is who you would talk to. But now since the cruise is over with, writing to the cruise line is not a bad ideal. They do listen to people when they write. My parents had a problem with an excursion they did through the ship. Nothing like what you saw, but did get some of there money back.

 

If the company is not keeping up their equipment or the difficulty needs to be increased then the cruise line needs to know.

[GOIN2C]

I think the "moderate" level rating was appropriate. I feel the real problem was the excursion boat itself with the inappropriate ladder. The other boats seemed to have more secure ladders then ours.

[G'ma]

I know this is my first posting, but I found this site and was compelled to write.

 

I just returned from my first cruise. I witnessed someone being injured on a ship sponsered excursion. A women had a very bad fall getting onto the excursion boat after a snorkeling event. The ladder was unstable and not suitable for anyone of any size or limitations. No limitations were suggested for the excursion and a lot of older people took it and they also had a lot problems getting on and off of the boat.

 

I prefer not to mention the cruise ship or company.

 

Now I am wondering if the ship holds any responsibility or are you on your own? I would be hesitant on going on another excursion if I knew the ship does not hold responsibility for the company they hire for their excursions. Should the cruiseline make sure the equiptment is suitable?

 

I know everyone should purchase travel insurance. I just wonder what a person should do if they are hurt badly because of obviously faulty equipment on a ship sponsered excursion?

 

I saw the woman a few times after the excursion and she was hardly able to walk. I felt so bad for her. Has anyone out here on CruiseCritic had this happen? What did you do?

 

Here's the way it is. ALL cruise companies have "terms and conditions", passenger ticket contracts, legal policy...it's called something different once in a while. It is readily available on ALL documents, all brochures, on their website, on the pages where shore excursions are booked. These terms for shore excursions is also give to each person who books one on the ship.

 

Basically, it's as follows. This happens to be Carnival's but they all read pretty much the same. Injuries ashore and other incidents are exactly why passengers should always have trip insurance....... Anyway:

 

10. INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, SHORE EXCURSIONS AND OTHER SERVICES

(a)Guest acknowledges that all Shore excursions/tours (whether conducted in the water, on land or by air), airline flights and ground transportation, as well as the ship’s physician, and on board concessions (including but not limited to, the gift shops, spa, beauty salon, fitness center, golf and art programs, video/snorkel concession) are either operated by or are independent contractors. Even though Carnival shall be entitled to collect a fee and earn a profit from the ticketing or sale of such services by such persons or entities, Carnival neither supervises nor controls their actions, nor makes any representation either express or implied as to their suitability. Carnival, in arranging for the services called for by the physician or nurse, all on board concessions, all shore excursion/tour tickets, all pre and post cruise airline flights or other transportation off of the ship and its tenders, does so only as a convenience for the Guest and Guests are free to use or not use these services. Guest agrees that Carnival assumes no responsibility, does not guarantee performance and in no event shall be liable for any negligent or intentional acts or omissions, loss, damage, injury or delay to Guest and/or Guest’s baggage, property or effects in connection with said services. Guests use the services of all independent contractors at the Guest’s sole risk. Independent contractors are entitled to make a proper charge for any service performed with respect to a Guest.

(b) Guest acknowledges that the ship’s masseuse, barber, hair dresser, manicurist, fitness or golf instructor, videographer, art auctioneer, gift shop personnel, wedding planners or other providers of personal services are employees of independent contractors and Carnival is not responsible for their actions. Guest further acknowledges that although independent contractors or their employees may use signage or clothing which contains the name “Carnival” or other related trade names or logos, the independent contractor status remains unchanged. Independent contractors, their employees and assistants are not agents, servants or employees of Carnival and have no authority to act on behalf of Carnival.

 

As to what one should do when injured on a shore excursion...well, first, get it attended to by a local doctor or onboard the ship. Then, work with the operator of the tour through the mail, email or phone to see if they will offer any compensation. If all else fails, you can sue if you don't mind traveling to and from the island where the incident took place.

 

No matter what, Carnival is not responsible for these incidents and their heinies are covered very well by the contract we all acknowledge and agree to when we plop down our money.

 

It's always a good idea to alway, always read everything, and completely understand what you're reading and what you are buying before making a reservation...and not just on a cruise - but any other type service.

 

And, buy trip insurance.

[paul929207]

I don't think the cruise line has any responsibility for a sponsored excursion. If you read thru all the fine print, it says any problems are between you and the vendor.

[Taxguy77]

Any plaintif lawyers out there? I think if you could get an action in a US court, the cruise line may have some liability.

I know in Cancun we took a snorkle trip and several people did not go in the water when they saw the jump off the boat and ladder back on. They active level I thought was somewhat misleading, but everyone was safe.:)

[RetireeWannabee]

I'm wondering where the injured party is and whether she felt she was injured "enuf" to do anything about it? very clearly the responsibility is with the vendor.

[trish1c]

When you leave the US you also forgo US tort laws (the laws that let you sue for somebody else's negligence or faulty equipment). Most other countries do not provide for our level of safety & if you get hurt in a foreign country you must avail yourself of the laws of that country for any harm you suffered Not all of them are based on English common law & you may have no legal remedy at all. You certainly can't haul a foreign national into a US court b/c that happens to be convenient for you.

The short answer is that it's about personal responsibility & common sense. You really can't expect 3rd world countries to abide by American standards.

[Jesscap5]

 

The short answer is that it's about personal responsibility & common sense. You really can't expect 3rd world countries to abide by American standards.

 

No but people don't expect to get badly injured either. Especially when they did not know (in this case) the ladder was unstable. If I booked a shore excursion and thought I could do it and someone told me the ladder was unstable (like someone who used it before me) then yeah- I'd used some common sense and really think about the risk) Other wise how would I know? I wouldn't.

[printingchick]

Send a note to the cruise company and tell then you think they should reevaluate the level of difficulty.

 

Agree! We had an issue on one of our ship-sponsored excursions and we did report it with an email following the cruise. Our bus broke down and the replacement driver not only arrived with beer in hand, but drove like a crazy man on windy roads to get us back to port. No one was hurt, but they could have been. That port recently saw a bus load of cruise passengers injured in just such an incident. If no one alerts the cruise line, how will they ever know??

[Toto2Kansas]

I don't think the cruise line has any responsibility for a sponsored excursion. If you read thru all the fine print, it says any problems are between you and the vendor.

 

I agree with Paul here. I have read somewhere on the shore excursion info that the cruise line is selling the excursions, but the liability is solely on the tour operator for the tour and not the cruise line. It is comparible to a cruise line selling you flights to the cruise, they are selling you the flights, but take no responsibility if there is a problem with them.

 

I had a friend once that was very very large. She took an excursion and just walking down a few steps fell and broke her ankle. Was it the fault of the tour company because whe was too large to walk down the steps, or was she part to blame for booking a tour she knew she would have to walk down a few steps to get onto the boat, because she was actually too large of a woman to do any type of climbing or going down stairs?

BTW-the cruise line did not assist in paying the medical bills because it happened on a ships excursion, and she didn't have travel insurance either, but the tour operator helped take care of the medical bills. She did have a long fight on her hands for the tour operator to compensate her for the money she was out for the medical bills though. ;)

[GOIN2C]

Thank you all for the feedback. I was just curious as to what happens under these circumstances. As I see things now, I may cruise again but I will leave any adventures to US land based where I will feel more protected.

[Bowie MeMe]

Sorry but even in the USA, just because you get injured and you think that it (may, should, could, wish if was) the fault of another you do not automatically get your medical bills, pain suffering, etc. paid. You might have a opportunity in court to make your case, but certainly not a guarantee they will agree with your position. Sometimes the cost of bringing the case to court is too much. Sometimes life is very unfair.

 

On the Constellation I happen to strike up a conversation with a Celebrity staff member (this case the florist!) who took several of the shore excursions. We enjoyed each other's company so we did 3 all day trips on the same bus. She "volunteers" to go on the excursions and goes for free but must make out a report on the trip that takes about an hour to complete. Some of the "guest relations" folks MUST go on excursions so the contractors know that they will have observers at least occasionally.

If the contractor gets complaints, the cruise director DOES look into the problems and drops the contractor if warranted. The highest scoring contractors according to the end of cruise surveys are then the first to be hired for later cruises. Sometimes the ship only visits occasionally but I do think that the cruise line checks for liscences, equipment safety and guide requirements according to laws of country visited.(the port agent does this) All cruiselines HATE having unhappy passengers who need "smoothing".

 

This thread is so interesting because most of cruise critic is absolutely DIY who don't have much good to say about shore excursions. They think the cruise line should take responsibility for excursions but yet will go out and get into anything that looks like a taxi or hire someone without anything but a stranger's word on this public foroum. Interesting.

[can786]

When I have seen something on a ship sponsored shore excursion that I did not feel was safe I have reported it in writing to the tour desk onboard. The last time I did this was on our British Isles cruise in 2008 when the tour guide knowingly left two passengers behind. We were in the Lake District, about a two hour drive from port and the guide waited less than 5 minutes after the appointed meeting time (and the bus was around a bend in the road from where we were told to meet it, therefore unable to be seen) before deciding he had waited long enough. As the bus was pulling away I saw the two women running down the sidewalk toward the bus. I immediately told the guide and he saw them but did not have the driver stop for them. Through a lot of lucky circumstances and the kindness of total strangers they were able to catch up to us when we stopped for lunch, but they got no help in this whatsoever from our tour guide. I was so upset at the thought that a guide would so callously leave passengers behind that I made sure to note the guide's name and all of the circumstances and reported it at the tour office once back onboard the ship. The cruise lines do take passenger feedback into consideration and too much negative feedback will cause them to switch vendors.

[ehfl]

I just looked the excursion up on the cruiseline website. Considered moderate activity level and restrictions said "N/A".

 

I am sorry to say I did not tell anyone. I wouldn't even know who to tell. At the time I thought I was minding my own business, but I can't help to think how this lovely trip was ruined for these people by someones negligence.

 

I would say the description is accurate. Climbing a ladder out of the water is moderate activity.

 

If people know they have problems with moderate activity, or with getting themselves from the water to a boat, then the burden is upon them to not sign up for the cruise. The cruise line simply can't make such decisions. They can only provide the information, and let the passengers use their own judgement.

 

It seems to me that this person did not use their own judgement.

[beachchick]

I just looked the excursion up on the cruiseline website. Considered moderate activity level and restrictions said "N/A".

 

I am sorry to say I did not tell anyone. I wouldn't even know who to tell. At the time I thought I was minding my own business, but I can't help to think how this lovely trip was ruined for these people by someones negligence.

 

It's a shame that the woman was injured and it's also a shame that some of the passengers had trouble getting in and out of the water. What kind of limitations did the woman have or was she in reasonable physical shape, but the ladder itself was the sole reason for her injury? Was the ladder broken or was it unstable in general? I ask because a ladder from a boat to the water is never going to be perfectly still and stable. I don't think the cruise line is wrong to label the excursion "moderate" activity because getting in and out of the water from a snorkel boat is not more than moderate. Perhaps they could include a disclaimer that size, age, and physical condition should be a consideration for passengers who want to take that excursion, but honestly, isn't it reasonable for the cruise line to assume that people basically know what snorkeling entails (in terms of physical requirements) and should know whether they are physically able to handle it?

 

I agree that if something like this happens in the future, you should report it to the Passenger Services desk and then follow up with a letter to corporate after you get home. The cruise lines certainly prefer to sell excursions where their passengers will have a fun time and also be as safe as possible. Cruise lines have been known to drop tour operators over safety issues.

 

beachchick

[GOIN2C]

This was a Stingray City excursion. Water is waist high. I am in rather good shape, and the ladder was difficult for me! It did NOT have handles as the other ladders on the other boats did. It was small in size compared to the other boats and went straight into the water whereas others were at a bit of an incline. Also the water gets choppy when a lot of other boats are in the same area, making the climb even MORE difficult without a handle.

 

As I stated the "moderate" activity level was accurate. But the N/A on limitations was the responsibility of the cruiseline. Age, weight, physical limitations should have been indicated. A LOT of older, arthritic, and heavy people do the Stingray City tours.

 

I did a Stingray snorkel while on a land vacation in Grnad Caymen and the sitation was different. The boat had a larger, inclined ladder with handles.

 

The woman was hefty, but if the ladder had at least handles, I think it would have made all of the difference.

 

I guess I should mind my own business, but I was bothered from this incident. I am so sorry I did not speak up and I will email a note to the CL

 

I shudder to think what happens on self excurions.

[beachchick]

GOIN2C: Thank you for the details. I should have said last night that I didn't doubt your concerns or what you wrote, but did want more information so that I could visualize what you were saying.

 

Based on your report, I'd say that there is definitely a problem with the excursion. If a fit, active person like you has trouble, then it's a serious issue. And especially the fact that there were no handles! That is simply unacceptable. I hope you do write and express your concerns; you have first-hand experience to relate, not just the woman who was injured (although that is important), but also your own difficulties.

 

While I do not believe the cruise line has liability for not placing limitations on the excursion, they should provide a more detailed description explaining what kind of physical condition (age, health, weight, etc.) passengers need to be in to participate safely. I know that some excursion companies and also the cruise lines place restrictions based on weight, age, and physical condition for certain activities (e.g., parasailing, helicopter tours, active boat trips), but I can also imagine people complaining (loudly and publicly) if they place those kind of restrictions on something like the Stingray City. They could restrict it to passengers no older than say 65, but that's too arbitrary because I know many 80-y/os (friends of my mom) who are in great shape. Unless the excursion company itself places a weight limit, I'm not sure how the cruise line could reasonably add a restriction. Maybe the cruise lines are too afraid to be accused of discrimination unless they know they can absolutely prove that an excursion would be unsafe for a 75-y/o or for someone who weighs 300 lb or for someone who is out of shape? But regardless, they need to know about the basic safety problems with this particular excursion provider.

 

It's a tough situation for you. I don't think you should MYOB in the future because your report to the cruise line may very well prevent others from injury or other problems. Knowing more about the details, I don't see how you could help but be bothered by what happened. If/When you receive a response from the cruise line, please let us know what they had to say.

 

beachchick

 

p.s., I think on independent excursions, which are almost the only kind we do, that we are responsible for checking the safety records, reviews, and requirements for ourselves. We're extremely picky about what we book.

[GOIN2C]

Sent email to cruiseline explaining what I saw and experienced. I seem to feel better now. I sure hope that poor lady does.