Nunagoras

Hey! May I come in? For the ones that don't know me here, once it is my first time on the Princess boards, I'm more prevalent on the MSC's boards, once that has been my cruise company of choice for years, with an RCI's presence here and there, once I've also sailed with them. Threads like this one are very interesting, no doubt. It is surprising for me to see such a premium market line now coming to the mega-ship size segment. By and large, me thinks that the 3,500ish passengers per ship should to be the maximum possible for such a premium vessel out there; or say I'd to tolerate such a 4,000ish one in extreme. So now Princess is in the works to bring it to the 5,000ish?... Good luck Princess and Carnival Group!... TBHH: Yes; there is a generation being "expelled" right now from the mainstream (RCI, NCL, CCL, MSC) level for the income of a new generation of happy cruisers made out of younger families whom want their trendy family opportunities at see. Nothing against! Companies would need to be profitable enough to continue providing this marvelous service cruising is to an as large as it can be audience out there world wide. But now; there is a generation whose kids are now adults on their own and whom just need some nice and peaceful holiday time on such a fashionable and as affordable as possible way. I'd to be OK with a 4,000ish ship to cope with that demand on a full adults, or at least teens plus adults setting... So now; pushing a premium line Princess has been for decades to the same family oriented loud, overpopulated atmosphere with such a "Princessish" twist on top? Fortunately they're testing it only on 2 ships nowadays. While I've been mostly "loyal" to MSC and happy enough with the mainstream affordable experience; I'm becoming sort of tired and unhappy with their current offering evolution status, as I'm growing on my late 40's soon early 50's... I'm actively trying to find solutions to replace that experience with something that most resembles what the mainstream experience of the mid 00's was when I started my cruising's "career"... X/Princess happened to be my best bets of today. Surely Virgin is full adult; and that is a plus on their side... But then again: I don't want a disruptive sort of experience on IMHO ugly ships!... X/P would to be the compromising places to go. Then there is the X Edge class (bearable to an extent) and those P behemoths that nobody would have had the idea to build! So; let us to have the older X/P ships as far as we can go on them, plus HAL if it survives! After that I'll perhaps to retire from cruising, or cruise very occasionally on a smaller ship experience line. Sincerely I wish well to Princess. They seem to have sort of a great product, even though I haven't experienced it first hand, though I seriously doubt it possible to retain same levels at a 5,000ish passengers per sailing vessel. Hope they realize it on time, send these behemoths for P&O or AIDA (which have become UK and German mainstream lately) and let Princess to survive where it shines: A premium adult experience to the global markets.

Welcome aboard the cruise critic forums. Industry wise and not RC specific: That depends really on what kind of assistance you'll need during your cruise. For example: I'm a nearly blind individual whose main need is some help with embarkation/debarkation of ship, especially on tender ports. So; yes; I always show them proof of my legal blind status so that they can provide the adequate help. Bear in mind that there is a limited number of ones they can provide such special needs, so the earlier you submit your query, the most likely they'll to accept it. I don't know what provisions they can give you. It falls mostly on a case by case analysis. Let me to give you a pro advise: Let your travel agent to deal with those subjects with the company. Less stressful on you and better for all. And have a nice day, a nice sailing and wonderful Cruise Critic reading!...

That's it exactly! At least one more that understands what market segmentation is about. And I'd say: Even in Europe, the 4* segment has experienced several cut-offs across the board on real service provided, and there are some randomly really bad service outfits here and there. Experiment to book a triplet to cope with a blind individual like myself and my parents and you'll see... Some 10 years ago even the 3* EU land hotel level would be attentive enough. Today it's more like a lottery game. Chances are you're on the right place at the right time; Marriott being one of the best for me to date... But once we had to live with a small single room for 3 people. No compensation, no refund, nothing, nada, on a 4* hotel in Europe; fortunately for just a single night when we really arrived very late!... So; yeah!... RCL service, while clearly at the EU land 4* service level provides a service level that in many cases would to touch the 5th star! They'd only not entirely touch that over details: Pax per square meter, pax per venue, pax per employees, and a few more others, some of them way subtle across the board. Furthermore; ships like hotels are understaffed and will be understaffed for most of next decade to come with. Would I like things to be different? Sure! But compromises would to be needed. This is just the beginning. Automate parts of the current crew jobs will follow. Very recently a brand new private Hospital opened their doors to replace the old one where I'm followed regularly in many ways. I was quite surprised that instead of a huge cafeteria/bar human manned like on the old one; there's now a spread of many small automated ones. You'd to be offered several machines from where you can purchase coffee drinks, snacks and in certain cases even packaged small meals. Some 2 or 4 employees would go station by station from time to time restocking them, instead of those 10-12 they had on the older building! That's the trend. Ideal? Perhaps no. Convenient? Surely! I enjoy to have a nice cappuccino out of those machines when I finish my visits later on the afternoon before returning home. An easy way to have a small relatively pleasant time while awaiting my cab/Uber to come. As simple as that. I can see both sodas, specialty coffee, beer, basic wine, mineral water, juices of some sort, ice cream, and even some sort of more sophisticated drinks and snacks to become a self-service from the machines in a not so long time from now on 4* level cruise ships like RCI, NCL, CCL or MSC. That's what the future is bringing. Sad? To an extent. Convenient? Pretty much for both parts; companies, the shortening crew talent available, and even us the cruisers to an extent!

That's it. They only have one "formal" night out of 7 and they should to eliminate that and make the usual captain's welcome such a casual event (pool deck weather permitting). "Formal" night used to be the 2nd to the main port (the one marked with a star on the official itineraries), but hey: The ones embarking on said port might not even to have access to their luggage when going dinner that night, so it may to become odd. Things are what they are. Less people going too formal year after year. I believe nowadays formal means collared shirts and pants for men without jacket or tie by the most part...

Many thanks to the wonderful advice on kids supervision. I believe your girls are now very wonderful ones, and among other things, they're wonderful because they had parents whom were good enough on telling them what "no" means in our entire life. Your parenting standards are what I consider the bare minimum for all of us to have a safe world to live in!... Congrats!... The no drinks other than from a bartender is essential these days where cheap synthetic drugs are as spread as they may be. Surely it would to be difficult to insert them on a cruise ship, but who knows? Nobody knows!...

This! TBHH: It seems clear that both MSC and NCL are dealing with this thread the right way. Both MSC (fleet wide) and NCL (at least on the brand new Prima) have solved it by having mostly a fixed menu out of the "plain" classics on top of what there may be a few daily specials: 1 fish, 1 meat and 1 vegetarian that changes daily. NCL introduces a pay for from the specialties. MSC adds a pasta dish to the cart. Either way; a compact menu that compromises to all aboard. The plain eaters would have some 3 or 4 options to chose from. The ones whom wish more complex dishes have other 3 or 4 to chose from. Starters seems to fall short of similar across the board lately: A salad, a cold and a hot, plus the soup of the day and the kids vegetables soup of the day. Same for desserts: A daily special plus fruit plate, cheese plate, ice cream and one or 2 more fixed treats. That would bring a reasonable fleet wide offering. Let's see how RCI will deal with it.

"We have more what we call new roles in our business than we've ever had. And these are new employees who have the depth and length of experience. So we've got a lot of new employees who simply are still learning." Michael Bayley RCCL CEO I believe this statement from the top explain this all on such a very diplomatic way. Ships are understaffed; and I'd to add; the more specialized the position, the more understaffed ships are. Several adds popping up for cruise related jobs on the social media lately. Even calling for first world employees! Things won''t to be easy on the next years to come. Compromise solutions will need to be made.

This, exactly. And it's not only with the Americans. Some of us in Europe would think more or less the same. I made the decision to visit both the UAE and Brazil by cruising on MSC for a reason, far easy to understand. Regarding the cruisers they may attract from Texas, I believe they may be after the growing Latino community there or on the near be states with consumption power enough to take a cruise there. MSC is very popular in Brazil and other Latin American countries, so if they have the chance to perform well within those communities there, it will be a plus. I expect Spanish as being the second, if not the first language out of those cruises. They may start with a Musica/Fantasia class vessel and grow it onward to the newer larger ships as demand rises.

Yes,, that is common practice on MSC EU sailings! Ships are "divided" in sections, each one for each embarkation port. Crew will work around that schedule. Sometimes it seems like you're on a ferry service, but generally you won't even to notice it at all. The official MSC's website is a mess of its own. Maybe your sailing is now sold out for direct purchases? Who knows! Have a nice sailing!...

I fully agree with you regarding low level crew personnel; those ones that usually come from the Philippines, Brazil, or most recently India and a few African countries. Problem is: Very rarely one of those will get training and the proper skills to become a mid-to-top level crew member. Basically; all the individuals I have dealt with on cruises on positions from a supervisor onward to general department manager, as well as guest services or marine officials have been well established western countries individuals. I know some Portuguese ones that used to work on various cruise lines at any market level whom have basically "retired" from the high seas. I was talking of said individuals. And believe me: Most of those individuals are "behind the scenes" ones, but ships can't to be run without them. Wish a waiter: The poor countries provide, solved the travel visa problems that remain elsewhere. Want a sous-chef? Even well established western countries have difficulty to provide right now. Ships of all levels are doing now what they can to maintain minimum standards... But believe me: Compromises would need to be done. I believe the next wave will to be to put specialty coffee drinks at automated machines like the Coke machines some ships have now to alleviate the lack of top bartenders elsewhere. And I could go on. Minimalist menus will be the norm in less than 6 months. NCL has them in some ships. MSC has them already fleet wide. CCL is on the go... Have a nice day!

Ah, on arrival day? I was thinking you're talking the 2nd day, excuse me! As I said; you can exit from the time the ship docks. My group had a 9:00AM flight on the last day that meant we needed to go out of the ship by 5:00AM. We asked our cabin steward to not open the 3rd bed in cabin nor service the cabin by the evening once we had that moment to rest a little bit before the long night; went to the buffet at 4:00AM, then out of ship on our bus to the airport as appropriate. Exit at 3:00PM for a 7:00PM flight, no worries. They do it pretty much everyday on those sailings; you just need to inform GS of your needs!

Quite interesting thread, thanks! Let me just to see it from another side: Don't know if it is for a cultural barrier challenge (EU vs US) or what else, but I can't to see myself paying up-charge for fast food inside a cruise ship where fast food is readily offered included on my basic cruise fare! Understand the 3rd party trademark renting schemes needed to retain base fares as low as possible, which explain why JR is a pay for on RCI, but again; fast food is fast food. Surely you can to make superior made to order fast food, but it remains being fast food!... 😞TBHH: Better to have it fully free, if possible. In such a more positive note; when I did my unique RCI experience on the Allure in Europe a few years ago, on Rome day the shore excursion came sort of late, and consequently we were on near ending Windjammers opening lunch time with less options available, and then I discovered they had a burger station there where they had some very nice chicken burgers displayed. The one I had was perhaps my best ever burger, but again: I'm not particular fond on burgers at all, to say the least!...

The hardware is wonderful by design. The actual service level only time will tell. I believe they'll to settle down on the so called mid-luxury cruising experience, on the likes of the Viking/Oceania/Azamara segment. But... But they're promising a lot on both the food and the entertainment sectors. Maybe: Can they to enter the full luxury at 950'ish capacity? We'll to know after the first few months in operation... Pricing seem inconsistent across the time and the board. I've seen on their website everything from mid to full luxury alike... While they claim they don't have such an MDR, I believe the "Med Yacht Club" and "Fil Rouge" are the non reservation "small" MDR settings on this ship (restaurants descriptions pave the way for at least a partly shareable menu) with the 2 specialties (Asian and Steakhouse) helping plus the premium buffet. As per Anthology's up-charge, wonderful to notice that by design it resembles such a 3* Michelin top chef experience, perhaps paired with some entertainment. Me thinks the price would make for the difference between your paid food level (high by design) and a top of the top ones with drinks pairings accordingly. They'll lower its market level and price if there isn't so much demand.

So obvious! Let me just to add: Is there anything else the Covid and Ukraine didn't change?...

This, exactly! If a bunch of waiters/waitresses becomes angry and exit ship, they'll to replace them by the day on India or the Philippines. So; now think on a sous-chef, a pastry-chef or something on those likes. Like it or not; the intermediate high qualified tourism individuals whom run those ships before the pandemic are now discovering they can have a better life at home on activities that don't require an 11 months embarkation contract doing such a "24/7" job journey! And they won't come in. There will be some 3-5 years of adaptation to train a new set of personnel to fill all those positions. Meanwhile; there'll to be some compromise solutions to be made. This is only the beginning, sadly...

No, you won't of course! Costa is losing in Europe for quite a while now. The pandemic simply gave them the sack... MSC and RCI are the leaders here now with the British market working somewhat apart. Most of the EU TA's whom used to work their charter groups with Costa are now happily on the MSC's camp... The market has changed...

They'll to cram Guy's Burgers elsewhere on a corner they find useful for that. They'll end up Costa, redeploy ships as Carnival (with a few in Europe) and turn P&O the EU mainstream line while Princess will be their EU/US premium...

The UAE cruises have some different T&C's applied to them. You can disembark from the time the ship docks till next day way up on the day, or way early if your flight demands. You'll need to empty your cabin but you'll be given plenty of time to leave the ship. Either way the Dubai authorities don't want people wandering inside either way port buildings or the airport. Please contact guest services during the cruise and they'll guide you. They'll have a pretty much permanent buffet set up from the time the ship docks to next sailing's sail away time.

Costa is; or either way was; such a continental European, mostly Italian sort of things, but the Europeans are now more demanding on their holiday arrangements. Apart some younger generations, Europeans in general are available now to pay solid 4* experience and above, instead of 3* party like ones. CCL seems to only very recently have noticed that, and they're trying to figure out what their best strategy to cope with that. Make P&O, Princess and HAL larger ship trademarks seems the option instead of Princessiside Costa. With MSC growing solidly on the EU 4* solid level, CCL has a very small maneuvering margin, and there are the ones whom remember already the Costa Concordia disaster together. I believe CCL will likely to finish Costa and grow the 4*+ service level out of Princess with somewhat larger ships elsewhere they can. After the current crisis in Europe that is where the demand will be. For the baseline, they'll just to have Carnival and that suffixes, even if Italian Fun Style.

I believe this as being such a "controlled risk decision" they're making, and they may very well to succeed. Tons of 50'ers with no kids being "forced out" now from the baseline mainstream mega-ships (I don't need to read CC boards to understand that. Just need to give a look on the prospects from the 2023-2027 shipyard order-book ship's experiences suffixes to capture the figure). Princess is obviously more expensive than baseline mega-ships, but several ones ready to pay the little bit extra, and they're coming from the below level, then less sensible to the "cutbacks", if there's any to the Princess product, while many of the Princess regulars, whom are a smaller number, will likely to "retire"... And while for me 4300 guests may feel like a little bit too much for me; current Princess new builds carry up to 3600 if my memory doesn't fail. It's not a huge increment... And FYI: While MSC is doing 4000 guests/137k GT on the Fantasia class; Princess is doing such a superb 4300 guests/175k GT on the Sun class!... That's a wonderful space per guest ration on what such a tentative mega-ship the Sun is! And, TBHH; if the Fantasia rarely feels crowded, apart on those moments when it is supposed to be; the Princess Sun will be a wonderful place to stay at on what crowd control respects!... If needed CG will only need to turn the Sun class a teens & adults only cruise experience and control the 3rd/4th beds numbers, and all will be great reducing slightly the full capacity. The ones to whom it will appeal are there, but even on the last of the last cases it fails miserably they can simply to redeploy the ship elsewhere with whatever brand they wish!... I'd to be one of those to whom ships on this like would appeal... Oh, well; let us to not turn this too out of topic, but this thread has become so interesting! And quite "addictive" too!... Many thanks!...

This, exactly! And this is why I enjoy to stay here on the MSC CC boards. Even the worst times of the pandemic this boards never degenerated! Congrats to all the members! Never done the YC, I believe it is a superior product, but not an "elite" line one. Either way: I have Explora (from MSC) on my radar for the Alaska on the next years to come (even though price consciousness is calling me the most on an HAL sailing. I wouldn't do mainstream on Alaska for obvious reasons)... But I don't consider myself an "Elite" cruise line's guest by the norm, even if I won the lottery, I'd to continue travelling on the medium sized ships. I believe the 3k guests segment (X/Princess) segment to be what could draw me on most of the time. Hope MSC to come with something on the likes on the mid-term future. I believe they'll to consolidate Explora on the next 5 years to come and then they'll eventually to pave the way for an upper-mainstream line for the 2028-2032 shipyard delivery schedule. We might to learn from it by late 2024, early 2025 if Explora is doing well by then... At least it would to make sense from a commercial point of view for them to do so, once this is IMHO where a good part of the next 20 years good cruising money will be...

Even though the lighter color scheme and sort of an "Yacht Club Lite" vibe to themselves, they seem to follow the same philosophy of the ones on the older ships. I fell like I'm at home at any of those cabins. Yeah; the lower category ones are smaller though, but hey: One has what one pays for!...

This!... While I bring some help from a big EU TA, my rankings are done from my 20+ years on financial market analysis work and from my personal experience as an user of so many tourism venues out there. I've stayed on it all from baseline Ibis to Ritz Carlton, and I understand what the differences are from product to product. The superficial appearances don't talk even minimally for the product itself. There was a little hotel in Barcelona, Hotel Condado, that used to be a 3* hotel, marketed and priced as that... But... It was a place so familiar and beautiful back in the day I was surprised it was indeed a 3* one! I went there repeatedly for several years till they seemed to have disappeared from the radar! Again; a nice place it was, but, if one watches closely it was a baseline 3* hotel, perhaps wishing to go a little bit higher. On cruises it is the same thing. Marella or Celestyal are 3* cruise lines, comparable to that small Barça hotel. The biggies on the mainstream follow mostly whatever 4* hotel standards available. X/P and the likes will go to the 4*+ and so on.

Sort of agree with you on the US vs EU vibe. TBHH: One of the reasons I booked lady RCI's Allure of the Seas here in Europe was for, at least partly, to experience such an "American vibe" aboard the ship, and the experience didn't disappoint, to say the least. Maybe; whatever the cruise line, things may vary by the region. Imagine such a Brazilian vibe on a coastal Brazilian cruise before the TA... Not better, nor worse, surely different!... I don't agree with you on the fact that all cruise lines seem the same these days. Me thinks that it is the very opposite. Only cruised myself on MSC and RCI, but went for work purposes on several ships of pretty much every other company out there, and if there's a thing that pops out on me, it is the market segmentation... Companies like CCL, NCL, RCI and MSC focus more on the affordable family holiday opportunities with OK food, lots of family like entertainment opportunities, companies on the likes of X, Princess, TUI, HAL, Cunard will focus on a superior food and service level client oriented vacation for a more selected and perhaps older clientele; and then there are the likes of Oceania, Viking, Explora, Regent, Seabourne, Silversea and the likes whom will go out of this world on superb food and experience for such a top refined clientele. Sadly for all of us; the mega-ship segment is running toward the youngster 3* like experience, while the medium-to-big ship segment is sort of retaining their 4*+ service level. This will frustrate some/many, mostly the ones for whom classy 4* is affordable and suffix, but 4*+ is a bit too much. That is my concern. I believe there's a place for classy solid 4* traditional cruising experience, but no one to actually provide it the way it should be done. Time will tell, but the prospects aren't favorable for some/many here in the CC's experienced cruisers brigade... Some will likely to be out in a not so long time frame; me included. Have a nice Sunday!...