markeb

I've only found one commercial. Reminds me of early iPod commercials or commercials for W Hotels. I didn't find the commercial very representative of the product in either case (the product was better, for me, in both cases). Doesn't everyone on the X board think Celebrity's commercials are totally non-representative of the actual cruise? That's a (exaggeration of) recurrent theme on this board over the years...

Probably. The holding company is owned in part by a venture capital firm.

Before everyone gets too excited, Virgin has 3 ships. The Virgin Group is estimated to have a value of £3B. Good news is they probably didn’t acquire as much debt during the shut down. But…

I think that’s what I remember.

Worth a look for sure. Weren’t they requiring payment way early at one time? Or am I confusing them with someone else? We’re at a place in life where longer cruises are possible, so I need to look at that. Not that familiar with their itineraries.

I think that's an overly broad generalization... I generally put myself in your group one, but have never really found that to be the case on any cruise line. In the MDR for sure, and probably Blu and Luminae, they're churning out large quantities of food in a relatively short period of time. I could try to do the math, but the MDR has to seat around 500 people per seating, probably more. Most high end restaurants are less than 100 per seating. I really don't know how much is truly made to order. I'll let you know after November if I still enjoy the product. The second thing is that so much of the negativity revolves around the same handful of dishes (proteins) that I normally wouldn't eat anyway. I enjoy a good steak, but I don't eat one (or beef in general) every day. Prime rib reminds me of military formals, not a high end restaurant. And I've never been a lobster fan, other than the very unusual preparations at very high end seafood restaurants. We quit specialty dining years ago on Royal because Chops was just badly oversized steaks and I don't like leaving a meal completely stuffed (and my mother was a child of the Depression and we learned to clean out plates). I would rather have a starch other than mashed potatoes generally. So, broadly, I enjoy a great meal. I have those on land. I enjoy a good meal, and have had those on ships in the past. I can't eat three MDR or Luminae meals in a day. Period. By dinner most nights I just want something to eat. Preferably something very small.

I guess the one thing I'm pretty confident of is they didn't make this change to save passengers money... As @neverlaysup said earlier in the thread, when you do the actual math AI has almost always been a better deal for most cruisers. In fact, their math says they were practically giving away the drink package and Wi-Fi once you subtracted the cost of gratuities. If you're not going to drink any extra cost beverages that would have been in the package and not going to buy any Wi-Fi, maybe not (but honestly from the businesses' point of view you're not a great customer...). I've said on one of the other threads that I don't see fares staying the same or increasing with tips coming out of AI on October 4; that would just be too stupid an insulting. And not good business. On the other hand, the ship is cashless. They know EVERYTHING about your spending habits. The AI fare, for most passengers, is a daily cap. I suspect the way they discount the drink packages into the AI fare many if not most passengers never look at anything that costs more than their per drink limit. And the servers, sommeliers, and bartenders largely reenforce that (again, great customer service, not so great business). If you don't have a package, are you more likely to buy that $11 Blue Moon or $13 glass of Louis Jadot Chardonnay that was over your package limit? And most people (not anyone on this thread, of course 🤨...) will look at the cruise only fare, not account for the gratuities or the price of a beer, and end up with a bill at the end of the cruise that's bigger than the difference between the AI and Cruise Only fares.

I don't know that we're looking at other cruise lines as much as looking at other travel alternatives. Our cruising history isn't nearly as long or intense as most people on this thread. We went from HAL in the 2004-2006 timeframe in our early 40's to Royal Caribbean for the more active style they promoted, and really enjoyed it. Even Oasis, although we only cruised her once. I think we did eight cruises on Royal. Our last Royal Cruise was Norway and Iceland on Brilliance, one of the few longer cruises we were able to take. By that time, we were hitting our 50's, the chronic rotator cuff tear was cutting down on shipboard activities, and Celebrity seemed to offer what we were looking for. And the lack of smoking in the casino was a big factor, to be honest. We had a cruise on Explorer a year before Brilliance and the stairs from the casino to the Royal Promenade were an effective chimney pulling smoke from the casino onto the (non-smoking) main thoroughfare of the ship and made that are reek of old smoke. For me, I don't care for the changes that are happening in the aggregate and because I feel they present a major change in the brand. But almost none of them would definitely impact us (other than the pricing changes, obviously). We don't eat much beef, neither of us really eat lobster, and we don't cruise for food. I'll travel for food; New York, London, New Orleans, etc. I've yet to see a menu that didn't have something that looked interesting, and potentially very good. Although I'll admit if my choices were another steak (regardless of quality) or going to the buffet for what's always been extremely good Indian food, I'd probably go to the buffet (side note: Royal used to always have regional dishes on their MDR menu, usually Indian and often veggie. They were always amazing. Then they went to centralized menus...). We have a Southern Caribbean cruise in November and a southbound Alaska cruise in May. Full disclosure they're both in sky suites. I doubt we'll book another cruise at that point, with any cruise line. We spent a week in London this summer and loved every minute of it. We're going to Munich at the end of the month, probably with a day trip to Salzburg, and expect the same. We're going to research a trip to the interior of Italy (probably Tuscany, with maybe a day or two in Veneto). We'll give that 2-3 years and then see if the cruise bug hits again and what options interest us then. Maybe a small ship line, depending on cost and perceived value.

I think the real question is will the prevailing rate without AI be higher than the booked rate with it...

True. It’s just the first day of the new system and I actually expect a status quo. For 30-60 days…

Retreat guests can check in any time. You're not limited to your assigned time. You need to wait for the previous guests to clear, so probably 10:30-11:00 is safe at FLL. It could be earlier, and you could check in and wait to actually board. You have to select a time; you don't have to follow it.

I book a fare that includes Wi-Fi (AI). I’ll book a hotel with a resort fee if I have to, usually because I have no choice or there are major overarching reasons. But if I have a choice of two properties and one wants to stack a bunch of fees beyond the room rate, especially Wi-Fi, I go to the other property, assuming comparable rates, of course. And usually I’ve gotten better rates at the property without the junk fees anyway. We’re talking past each other. The high cost of providing internet at sea is clearly an issue, to Celebrity. But the folks they’re targeting in the future don’t (may not, to be fair) know that or care. Internet is simply there. And always has been. I can be guilty of looking at the business’ side of things, but the consumer pretty much expects internet to just be there with the cost of the room. October 4 will be interesting.

The same announcement on gratuities included new policies for AI (without gratuities) to be optional in Aqua. That's pages down by now.

That may be true for you, but it's almost unheard of for the generation they're trying to attract. I'm 60 and wouldn't dream of staying at a hotel where I had to pay for internet (rare exception for mandatory destination or resort fees which I really consider part of the room cost). I remember when hotels considered internet a revenue center; it's a cost center now and they pretty much have to offer it to most customers to get them in the door. Many of them (Marriott, for instance) give free basic internet and charge for enhanced, with a free upgrade for their higher tier elite members. It will only take a few cruise lines including internet in their fare for it to become the norm on ships as well. (Yes, most airlines still charge for it, but add on fees have become so normal there that I hope it's not a good precedent.)

All true. But dropping the tips and leaving the fare at the same rate, or worse raising the fares on October 4th would be so insane as to be inconceivable. It's possible, but it's not a foregone conclusion as so many jumped on in this thread. Yes, I assume fares will go up in time. And bounce around as usual. And occasionally include gratuities as a promo. And in six months (or less), they'll do something else, maybe even return to the previous AI with a different name. Because they're focusing on operations instead of a long term strategy. Maybe the strategy so many of us loved wasn't actually a successful business model. And banks and institutional investors want to be paid and see an ROE. And there will be pressure on the TA community to pay the gratuities on their group bookings and eat into their commission. Since many if not most travelers won't have seen the TA FAQs and blame their TA, not Celebrity. Which is actually brilliant in a way.

Interesting question. What makes a Blue Moon worth $11 on the ship? What makes a Goose Island worth $16.49 at a major league baseball park? It's what they're able to charge. Comparable to many large urban area bars. Cheaper than many European bars and hotels.

2013 is before my first Celebrity cruise? What were they? I'm trying to imagine this. I somehow think we're not talking Pentatonix...

So George Michael meets Glee? Not getting the vibe here...

Celebrity's web page will frequently allow you to purchase things you already have. I have two bookings with Always Included (Drinks, Wi-Fi, and Tips), but I have the option in the cruise planner to buy a drink package. To us the old saying, it's a feature, not a bug...

Have you just come back in time from October 4? Possibly, maybe even probably true, but no one knows that yet.

They use their own recipe, different from what’s on Zacappa’s web page. Zacappa rum Sugar cube Dash Orange bitters Dash Mole (chocolate) bitters.

Zacappa Old Fashioned.

Maybe because the board wants to show an ROE to their investors? Or find a brand president who can? The challenge is doing that in the short term without destroying the brand, but if their bookings are still strong with new cruisers...

We're probably taking a break from cruising after the two we have booked partially for the same considerations. We enjoy visiting Europe, and much if not even most of it isn't easily accessible by cruise. We would consider, with a lot more research, a cruise into one of the wine regions of France, but if I travel to Paris, I want to spend time in Paris, not traveling from the coast and back for a short visit. Same for most of Italy, and pretty much all of Germany, and definitely Austria and Switzerland. Some of that is amenable to a river cruise, but we'd be happy finding a nice location and just staying there, with or without a day trip or a rental car. The argument about only unpacking once only applies if you move from place to place. There are a lot of places where you can immerse yourself for days and never change hotels.

The American early dining is lunchtime in the southern Mediterranean! 😃