markeb

That's kind of an interesting question. I'm assuming you've sailed in the Retreat? What we've always found was that the bar was stocked the first day with a good mix of liquor and wine, probably all in the premium package, but some may well have been above the limit. There were never prices, so no one paid attention (kind of like an AMEX Centurion Lounge at the airport). Pretty much after saying hello and taking your drink order, the bartender universally stated if there's something you want that's not here, I'll get it. I assume there was a practical limit on that (he wasn't going to get a Macallan 18, for instance), but I'm pretty sure he nibbled at the margins. I don't know that I ever asked for something, but I know I've benefited from things others asked for. Balvenie, Glenmorangie, etc. that I only got in the retreat so I really don't know if they were below the package price because I didn't look for them in a bar with a price list.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, as it would be the final indication that Celebrity has lost all sight of its (former) business strategy, but... They cut the price of the package. They raised prices of some drinks beyond the package price. They're now receiving complaints about both the drinks being priced outside of the package which loses the set price and the need to constantly sign for drinks priced over the package. What's the solution? Raise the package price. More than it was before. Restore predictability and eliminate signing for drinks. That's what you wanted, right? FWIW, you can contact Celebrity all you want and complain to Celebrity all you want. There's too much of this going on to not have the concurrence, and likely the direction, of the RCG CEO and Board. Celebrity is executing policy (maybe not well), not developing it. IMHO. I said months ago that the "be more like Royal" concept really translated into "make money like Royal"...

It's been several years since we last cruised Royal Caribbean, and that was on Brilliance, which is now a "small" cruise ship... We've sailed Equinox three times, most recently in November. She is about the size of the Voyager class from Royal. There's no Royal Promenade; there are two decks that are mostly shopping and bars, but not that central gathering area. More like the Radiance class. We like both setups for different reasons. We did two European cruises on Royal, and they were very different than the Caribbean. I'm assuming the same would be true of Equinox. Even with recent changes that you'll see on this board, we find service on Celebrity to be better than Royal, and the crowd has generally been a little older and a little more reserved (not always... 😁). Since you're going without the kids, I think you'll be fine. If you've done a longer Royal Cruise, especially on the Radiance Class, it's not going to feel radically different. Ships' designs are different, and there's a different vibe, but you should feel at home pretty fast.

I wouldn't buy a $500 California cabernet without knowing the vintage! I was looking randomly for something else in the app, and Tuscan on Equinox has has Opus One listed at $675 (about a 50% mark-up so not bad). That's almost certainly the 2019 (there is no 2020), and at roughly three years old it's going to be a brute. I've tasted it, probably a year ago, and it has great potential, but no way on earth I'd buy it at $675 and drink it on a cruise ship. We were at a very nice steakhouse in Texas a couple of weeks ago and they had a 2017 Gaja Barbaresco on their wine list. For sale... I don't go into Petrus territory from Bordeaux. I'm sure it's absolutely amazing, but there's a point where I probably won't perceive the difference. I assume Petrus holds their product at the winery in the bottle for some period before release. But those are wines you lay down for your children and grandchildren! You drink the one your father bought twenty years ago. The truly sad thing is like a really good Barolo or Barbaresco, and some high end California wines, people drink them young and believe that's how they should taste. And Robert Parker gives them 100 points and everyone KNOWS it's a great wine and should taste like an over fruited tannin bomb! And the bottle (probably one, to get their Wine Spectator award) they have will be the current release... Off the wine rant. If I want something really good I'll pull something out of the basement that's been resting comfortably for the last 8-10 years. Not in Petrus territory!

In fairness the vintage probably isn't going to matter much for most of the wines people discuss around here. I'd probably be hesitant with a 2020 Napa because of the smoke, but we're mostly talking $10-15 retail bottles, not high end single vineyard wines (large parts of the valley weren't impacted, but you'd need to know the difference between Calistoga and Coombsville). And worse, where vintage might matter, they're almost certainly current vintage/current release. They were tasting (and selling) a current release Barolo on my last cruise that was basically a barrel tasting. I might have bought a bottle at home, but it would have gone straight to the basement for at least 5 years! Great potential, but brutal to drink now. Like you say, mark-ups are usually highest on the lowest priced wines. That's not unique to cruise ships. You can charge $30-50 for a $10 retail wine, but you're not going to (usually) get $1500 for a bottle of Opus One (for instance).

I don't drink Mer Soleil; it's not my style of Chardonnay. So I hadn't paid any real attention to it. But I don't see it listed by the glass in any venue on Ascent's current sailing.

Probably. I see the new pricing on my iPad. Didn’t see it on the iPhone.

Your cruise leaves from the Manhattan Cruise Terminal? Just want to be sure. For MCT, you'd want Amtrak to New York Penn Station (Amtrak code NYP). That's the Moynihan Train Hall, but the code is still NYP. Your blocks from MCT and in near dozens to hundreds of hotels. Depends on what you want to spend and what kind of configuration you're looking for. A room for three can be more challenging if that's what you're thinking. It would help to have dates, a hotel budget, and any hotel affiliations/preferences. And what you plan to do once in the city. Lots of options. Newark Penn Station would not be a great option in general. You might save hotel costs, but you may be looking at an Uber back to the MCT from Jersey and that could blow at least some of your savings. (There are public transit options, but your questions lead me to believe you might not be comfortable with them. That's an assumption...) The train is at least a little more expensive, and you'd lose most options to easily do something in Manhattan.

The menus currently vary by ship in the app; they may or may not vary on the ship. Equinox current sailing shows the "old" pricing. All the cocktails at $17 except the "Above the Clouds". Ascent current sailing shows "new" pricing. Zacapa Old Fashioned, Azteca, and Violet Hour are $19. Above the Clouds is still $22. All the other cocktails are still $17. Didn't really look at the wines. Since it's a Diageo bar (it's their concept and licensing and Diageo distributed liquor) you'd think they'd keep the pricing consistent.

So do you have an arbitration date yet? I mean somewhere around page 321(a) subparagraph 5.1.3(c) in your cruise ticket Celebrity spelled out the procedure for arbitration. Right after the paragraph that said you agreed to arbitration and right before the paragraph that said you had to file any legal challenges in Florida and close to the one that said you couldn't participate in a class action. It was easy to ready in Arial 6. So I'm assuming you've filed for arbitration for breach of contract? Venting is fine. Maybe even cathartic. But if people really think they aren't getting what they paid for then there are remedies in the cruise contract. Cruise Critic isn't a remedy. I'm sure you're not getting what you think you paid for. You're not getting what I want to believe I paid for. But I'm betting unless they have the worst corporate lawyers on earth, we're actually getting what we really paid for. And we accepted their ability to change pretty much everything even after we bought the cruise. And I'm also sure they'll gladly send you the link where you could have read all those terms before actually buying the cruise. And no, I didn't read them either. I just assume they're there and that they're designed to hose me over. Like Ticketmaster, the airlines, MLB, NBA, NFL, NCAA, most carmakers, etc.

Best list is in the app. What are you looking for?

Why? Are you still booking X? If you are, you’ve already accepted the changes.

Since the thread is about the Retreat, the point for many of us is that differentiation hasn't really ever existed. There was probably a cutoff on price, but you never really saw it. I never saw a Macallan 25, or even 18, in the Retreat, as an example, but there was never an issue with most any other liquor. The Retreat bartender would usually track down something passengers on the cruise were drinking if they weren't stocking it the first day. That was usually wine, but sometimes whisky as well. And the list is pretty much obsolete before they hit "Save as PDF". For instance in mid-November, the Retreat had Buffalo Trace, the Balvenie 12 year Triple Wood (travel version), Macallan Quest, and eventually I believe a Glenmorangie travel edition. None of those are on that list. All were available in various venues, and were available at the Retreat bar. With no concern about price.

I’m also talking about the Retreat. But the demographic with money but not time. They’re not likely to cross shop the lux lines’ longer and sometimes more difficult to reach cruises. And they fit squarely in the demographic Celebrity seems to be targeting.

I'm going to agree and disagree. Remember that Celebrity is a subsidiary of RCG; the brand president no longer even wears the CEO title. It seems pretty apparent that Liberty and the Board are under pressure and pressuring their subordinates to produce revenue for shareholders. That's kind of their ultimate job. Liberty is a finance guy. LHB has an operations background. With pressure to produce revenue, they're going to default to form. And it's not just quarterly. I'm pretty sure it's been several years since RCG even paid a dividend. A strategic change could take years to have an impact. That leaves nibbling on the margins with slight increases in revenue where you can and slight decreases in expenses where you can. But those conflict with the strategic position of a "near luxury" (whatever that really means) cruise line winning awards for its food and beverage programs in particular. That always looked great as a customer. I don't know that it was as profitable as we all thought? They're changing their strategy through operational decisions, rather than a well thought out process where the strategy informs the operations and finance. It's not fun to watch and I'm glad I'm not on the inside of this... I don't think Celebrity views the true luxury lines as its real competition. I know you do, and it is for you. Celebrity is (or was very recently) targeting the younger, affluent demographic, probably starting at 35-40 and going up to the mid 50's. Those are folks who might cruise with them for another decade or more. That's not the true luxury lines real market, and Celebrity can/could offer product there that the luxury lines don't. Such as 7 day cruises from easily accessible ports. Even if you're paying less on Regent (for instance) but the cruise is longer than you can take off, and/or it takes you an extra day to reach the cruise and return, you're not looking at that cruise. Obviously Celebrity happily takes repeat customers outside that demographic, and for the Retreat, those customers likely are and should compare the true luxury lines. Nibbling at the margins is a symptom to me. Lesser wines for more money. More upcharges. Drinks priced over the drink package limit. That's NOT what they should be doing especially for their highest margin passengers (the Retreat). People pay the Retreat prices in part to not deal with that. To me the disease is they've lost sight of their overall business strategy. They spent a lot of money on the Edge class in particular to make the Retreat and its all included offerings the keystone of their strategy. And then they insist on defeating that advantage by silly things like a $2.40 upcharge for a wine you can probably buy at Walmart! Time to sit back and enjoy the holidays. At home.

I think it depends on the house band. The last couple of house bands were guitar rock/keyboard, mostly 70's/80's. Although I remember this group doing some current pop as well (I think Taylor Swift, maybe Beyonce, but a lot of Eagles, some Foo Fighters, etc.). There was also a string duo (guitar and violin) that were very good, but they were usually earlier in the evening. On our cruise in 2022 the house band was from Mexico and they did a Latino themed night that was incredibly popular.

Live music for the most part. On our cruise there was a DJ outside the Martini Bar one floor up, so the grand foyer and martini bar spill into each other.

You can write as many letters or emails as you want, but if you continue to book, who cares. Enough people apparently are happily booking AI and so far not sweating the upcharge. Maybe new cruisers who have none of the expectations of CCers and will cruise for years from a different start point. We’re probably taking a break from cruising in general. But too many people on this and other threads are simply grousing while feeding the beast. If you don’t like it, don’t pay for it. All stop!

I was sure it was about Goose Island (IPA)...

Passable wine with good people beats great wine with bad company every time! The thread has gone down the wine rabbit hole, but the people you’re drinking it with is what really matters! (Oh, and I’d go with the Freemark Abbey too!)

I still think it's a crappy way to treat customers, but most people do not know what it costs at retail, and if they're on a package, they only know they're paying $2.40. I'm really believe people on this board put far more thought in this than the average passenger... (Oh, and yes. Decoy is a barely passable wine. The parent company, Duckhorn, makes some outstanding wines. Decoy isn't one of them.)

Nuts and I have different opinions on Broadway type, but I won’t disagree with the general statements.

There are no “Broadway type shows”. There are two primary production shows that are a mix of music and aerobatics. There are typically comedians and other musical performers. The ship has several venues with live music. Expect a rock band (sort of), a string duet or trio, and a couple of wild cards. Sets are 45 minutes, which is kind of choppy when they’re good. There will probably be a silent disco (more fun than you might think) and a DJ. The grand foyer will go until about 11:00, then things will shift upstairs. Any given night will be different, as will any given cruise.

It's a crazy stupid price, but the pricing is undoubtedly based on the drink package. Not true on this thread (and not a form of marketing I'm really comfortable with) but I'm betting most people will buy a drink package and not pay attention. And even the upcharge wines will only be viewed as the delta, not the absolute cost. If you do have a drink package, have a couple of poolside drinks, a pre-dinner martini (or two) and an after dinner drink, you're probably at a point where a $2.40 upcharge for a "$19" glass of wine doesn't really matter. It pushes the whole sunk cost fallacy on the drink package...

I get it, but that's hardly unique to Celebrity or to cruising. It happens all the time in hotels. A few years ago, a number of hotels went to automated inventory systems (touch sensitive) for minibars. If you picked an item up to look at it, the system charged you for it, even if you set it back down.