Problem with Passengers Being Bumped in Baltimore

Attached is link to a news article that has appeared in today's Baltimore Sun about a large amount of passengers being bumped from their cruises with Carnival. Fortunately I just got back to Baltimore from a wonder cruise on RCCL Grandeur.

Robin

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-te.bz.cruise04aug04,1,7973671.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

Cant read it without going thru a bunch of "sign-up":mad:

Could you summarize?

Thanks

that stinks!

Cruise line customers left high and dry

Overbooking by Carnival forces cancellations; 'Ruined these people's vacation'

By Paul Adams

Sun Staff

Originally published August 4, 2004

After months of rehabilitation from injuries suffered in a racing accident at Pimlico Race Course in May, veteran jockey Rick Wilson and his family were looking forward to a seven-day cruise on Carnival Cruise Lines' recently minted ship, Miracle.

It was to be the family's big vacation after an awful spring and summer spent in hospitals.

But yesterday, the family members found out they are among a large number of would-be vacationers who have seen their plans disrupted in recent weeks because of overbooking on Carnival cruises from Baltimore.

Travel agents said they fear the cancellations are souring passengers and endangering Baltimore's booming cruise business.

Though they couldn't disclose exact figures, Carnival officials said yesterday that hundreds of passengers who had hoped to sail on one of the line's eight cruises from Baltimore this summer have been "bumped" because of overbooking.

"After what we've been through this year, we were really, really looking forward to it," said Jean Wilson, Rick's wife. The family was part of a group of 57 people -- about half of them horse racing enthusiasts -- bumped from the cruise.

"This was going to be our good vacation at a time when it's well needed," Wilson said.

Several Baltimore-area travel agents said their customers have been among those disappointed by Carnival as the city's years-long efforts to attract more cruise ships is finally bearing fruit.

Port of Baltimore officials said they anticipate handling 240,000 cruise passengers this year, more than double the 115,813 last year and far more than the 5,103 it saw in 1999, before cruise lines started to give Baltimore a second look. Several lines began sailing directly from Baltimore after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to attract passengers who were reluctant to fly.

Committed customers

The problem, a Carnival spokeswoman said, is that the cruise line hasn't been getting nearly as many cancellations in Baltimore as it does at its other ports.

Cruise patrons in the mid-Atlantic, it turns out, are more committed than the average passenger. As a result, the complex computer algorithms that Carnival employs to figure out how many passengers are likely to back out failed to anticipate the region's pent-up passion for cruising. Similar systems are used by airlines to predict passenger behavior.

"We have a formula, if you will, that is pretty reliable in terms of estimating the amount of attrition that we're going to have," said Jennifer de la Cruz, a spokeswoman for Carnival. "But we didn't have nearly the attrition [in Baltimore] that we normally see."

The problem is remarkable given that Carnival, which transports nearly 2 million passengers a year, is a new entrant in the Baltimore market. Often, cruise lines find it takes a few years before vacationers warm up to a new service, which leads to light bookings in the beginning. Not so in Baltimore.

"They didn't realize the strength of the Baltimore market, I guess," said Patty Sroka, a travel agent who booked the Wilsons and dozens of others on the Sept. 26 cruise out of Baltimore. She said several groups, including hers, were bumped from the sailing.

"Since 9/11, people don't want to fly, and if there's something local and they can avoid flying, they would prefer to do that," she said.

Sroka, who operates a small travel agency out of her Woodbine home, booked the cruises almost a year ago on behalf of her uncle, John Divver, who organizes a large trip every few years for a growing number of family members and friends. Divver, owner of B&B Auto Sales in Gaithersburg, raises horses on the side and is well connected in the racing world. Many group members, who have vacationed together for years, are horse trainers, jockeys and owners.

"It's ludicrous," Divver said. "It basically ruined these people's vacation."

The situation poses particular problems for the horse trainers, who must arrange months in advance for others to care for their animals while they are away on vacation.

"For trainers to be gone a week is big time," Divver said.

Carnival offered to send the group on an alternative cruise out of New York with more luxurious accommodations and some spending money thrown in.

But the new dates are unworkable, and the group was set on cruising out of Baltimore. The cruise line will refund the group's money and offer incentives on future cruises, but it's little consolation for the disappointed members.

"I think Carnival is out of our vocabulary now," said Shirleyan Benham, a retired Salisbury nursing instructor who, along with her husband, planned to join the group. "People have lost a lot of money and time."

Agents frustrated

Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Norwegian Cruise Lines and Holland America also sail out of Baltimore.

A spokeswoman for Royal Caribbean, which began extensive service in Baltimore this year, said the cruise line has not had to involuntarily bump passengers from its voyages.

But travel agents, who report strong interest in Baltimore cruises, are frustrated and worried that the problem could

spread.

"We're drawing folks from as far away as Indiana," said Barbara Cooper, a travel agent with Bennett World Travel in Ellicott City, which books cruises. "It's disconcerting because you don't want to not sell the local cruises, but then again you're afraid to book anything because you're afraid they're going to get bumped."

That's what happened to Cooper's colleague, Florine Smith, who had booked a group of 27 for a Carnival cruise that departed on Mother's Day. Most had paid in full and booked almost a year in advance, but Carnival told them they would have to reschedule for a different date. Only nine members did so. The rest got a refund.

"Many of them became disillusioned," Smith said.

De la Cruz stressed that it is rare for passengers to get bumped. But when it happens, the cruise line tries to inform passengers quickly in hope of finding them alternative accommodations.

"It doesn't necessarily make people feel better ... but if we are in an oversold situation, it's going to be noted a few months prior [to departure]," she said.

Copyright © 2004, The Baltimore Sun | Get home delivery

Interesting

I´m just curious about this and how ut can happen. Happens this only with guarantee bookings or do they double book assigned cabins too. When I book a certain cabin I have the number of my cabin and a confirmation for it already. Are they really able to book this cabin to another person?

I´m scared that this could happen.

I'm concerned too! We are booked on a Guarantee too. Though I read that Carnival doesn't assign cabins on Guarantees until you arrive at the port. I've also read that RCI assigns cabins no later then 2 weeks before you sail for a guarantee. Not sure if what I read was correct. Maybe someone who has sailed on a Royal Caribbean guarantee could confirm this for us?

travelgal,

I sailed on an inside guarantee with Royal Caribbean in June and we had our room assignments three weeks before the sailing date.

Cindy

I booked a guarantee for our upcoming Brilliance cruise. It's not until December, but I've had my cabin number since June! The inside cabins are now all sold out....

I think it sucks (can I say sucks?), because the first time I booked a guarantee with RCCL (in 1999) I didnt get our cabin number until we got to the pier and it was an outside cabin!

Anyway, interesting article. Its true about the pets though. I dont know about horses, but, here, if you dont have a space booked at the kennel before August/September you won't get a space over the Winter holidays! We booked our dogs (4) "holiday hotel" space as soon as we booked our cruise!

I feel so bad for those people...

Sam

Funny that this article just hit the news. Cruise News Daily (see Alan, I gave you a plug) had an article in yesterday's edition how Carnival is now going to assign guarantee cabins 6 - 8 weeks before sailing where in the past they were done at the pier. Maybe the CND article should have included that they will either assign your cabin or bump you 8 weeks out!!!

I think that we all agree that this goes BEYOND "it s**ks." You hate it when you get bumped from an airplane flight, but you at least KNOW, somewhere in the back of your mind, that this sometimes happens, and if you hold out and are flexible, they can give you some awesome incentives to take (usually) just the next flight out, or maybe just a few hours later. NO ONE expects that a CRUISE LINE could bump you! It just doesn't seem possible. All the planning and the arranging that goes into a vacation! It's insane to think that a cruise line would even THINK of taking more bookings than they have cabins! YUCK!

Carol (JMnotveryHO)

And what exactly do you do with non-refundable airline tickets when it turns out that you no longer have a cruise to take?

Can we see more govenrment regulations on the way to protect cruise line passengers because the cruise lines aren't doing it on their own?

With airlines there are rules in place for reimbursement should you be involuntarily bumped. The airlines have to poney up when they screw you over and it's not nearly as inconvenient as if a cruise line were to do the same thing. With airlines, they offer to pay volunteers to bump plus you can usually get out that day or the next with little disruption in your vacation if you're a leasure traveler. I've received my flight plus $400 in the past.

With a cruise it would be a MAJOR disruption in travel plans. Airline tickets, several days accomadations, food, et.......I don't see a refund and cabin credits for a future cruise as appropriate compenstation for the lose of a weeks vacation. Not to mention the cost of changing the airline tickets or finding a hotel room for several nights at the last minute plus paying for meals out for those nights.

The powers that be at the cruise lines better figure out how to make bumped passengers happy or they're inviting big bother to the party. Once the government starts writing rules to protect the public it seems as if they have a hard time stopping.

The powers that be at the cruise lines better figure out how to make bumped passengers happy or they're inviting big bother to the party. Once the government starts writing rules to protect the public it seems as if they have a hard time stopping.

Doug, that has to be the BEST Freudian slip/typo I have ever seen!

;) Carol ;)

Most of the people who were bumped, were local travelers who were not flying. The question here is why Carnival had the problem and RCI did not?

Most of the people who were bumped, were local travelers who were not flying. The question here is why Carnival had the problem and RCI did not?

Because it's Carnival, not Royal Caribbean!

Most of the people who were bumped, were local travelers who were not flying. The question here is why Carnival had the problem and RCI did not?

I think the article explained that they overbook based on what percentage of passengers that cancel for an average sailing. It turns out that the Baltimore sailing had a cancellation percentage that was much lower than their national average.

Maybe RCI passengers have not cancelled their cruises as much for sailings....RCI has also not sold out any of the Grandeur sailings from Baltimore....

Just my opinion though....

Radio

;) ;)

I am absolutely disgusted, but not suprised to read the comments on this thread. We sailed Carnival as first time cruisers. Our first two cruises consisted of boarded up decks due to a fire on a previous cruise, being denied access to Cozumel due to an inept Captain (Tropicale) who crashed into rocks on a previous cruise. That cruise resulted in passengers being hurled down stairwats on their way to the dining room, broken bones, and sleeping on deck chairs for fear of another catastrophy. On our second cruise with them we went to our assigned early dinner seating, after which, we returned to our cabin to freshen up. We walked up to our cabin door to find it wide open. We peered inside to see our cabing steward, an officer, and two junior officers tearing our cabin apart, clothes everywhere, linens all over the place! They "were checking on the cabin stewards cleanliness of the cabin"(hmmm)!! We were in our late 50's, Grandparents of 5 Grandchildren!! Semi-retired, quiet people in search of a nice vacation. Clearly, we were not a threat to anyone. Nothing was done to initiate such a search and violation of our privacy. Upon comletion of the search, nothing was found and we were "allowed" to re-enter our paid for cabin. We left the Tropicale with bitter feelings and vowed Carnival would never get another penny of our hard earned savings. Fellow passengers were outraged!

Our next cruise was with RCCL. Here we are 12 cruises later. Dedicated RCCL cruisers. We have received nothing but professionalism, cordiality, and top rate services from Royal Caribbean.

Carnival deserves and has earded their rating with fellow cruisers as "THE BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL OF CRUSING"!! If I had spent months planning a cruise and doing a countdown to the day of sailing only to be told I've been bumped, with no vacation, no airline tickets home for a week, hotel, meals, etc. I would be seeing a lawyer immediately.

Attrition might work in the workplace but not in vacationers lives. The ship can cruise with empty cabins if passengers do not board, they have paid for them in one way or another. DO NOT PENALIZE PASSENGERS FOR YOUR PROJECTIONS THAT DID NOT MATERIALIZE!! We would NEVER cruise with Carnival again if they were the only line on earth.

Beware of Carnival..... a recipe of catastrophy!

Carnival still sends us invitations to sail. We return them, telling them to shove them where the sun will never shine!!!!!

I always thought that cruises dont overbook, thats why if you dont show up they still got your money, no refunds. Unless of course you cancelled way in advance or have insurance. We need someone who works at a cruise line reservations agency to answer this. I work for an airline and its normal for us to overbook.

edwin

Hey, there's something very big missing here... we all have to have our non-refundable final payments in 60 days out.. so how could they be overselling? They've been paid for a cabin, and if someone doesn't show up, they don't get a refund and the cruise line has not lost a penny.. so what, the cruise line counts on some people doing this, and sells the same cabin twice? That's outrageous.

Airlines are different.. corporations and individuals book seats at refundable fares on an assortment of flights all the time, because they might need them, but often they don't... so I can see how they overbook.

But not a cruise. The cruise line knows 60 days out who has paid and who hasn't. Doesn't seem worth the risk to goodwill for this to be affecting so many people.

Hey, there's something very big missing here... we all have to have our non-refundable final payments in 60 days out.. so how could they be overselling?

Overbooking cabins on major cruise lines is a common practice just like overbooking seats on an airline. The difference is that airlines use a formula to determine the no-show factor at departure, based on past history of the date and flight. Major cruise lines use a yield management formula to predict "fall-out" of a sailing, both before and after the penalty period begins. A cruise line will oversell a sailing during the deposit phase, based on historical data of how many passengers will likely cancel prior to the final payment period. If too many passengers actually make final payment and firm up the bookings, then the sailing could find itself in an over-sell situation as is the case with CARNIVAL MIRACLE. There is also a certain amount of fall-out after the penalty period begins, as people still cancel within 60-90 days of sailing. The formula also takes this attrition into account as well. If the yield management team has done their job well, the sailing will go out with all berths full, and no involuntary buy-offs. Carnival actually has an excellent history with yield management. It's pretty rare they have involuntary buy-offs.

Princess Cruises is actually the most notorious for overselling. I actually think it's part of their yield management strategy. Oversell some very popular sailings beyond the attrition factor, and then petition volunteer passengers to move to a less desirable sailing with a token on-board credit (which gets spent onboard anyway). Now you have two sailings going out full. It's my understanding Princess has a team in place where their sole responsibility is calling travel agents for buy-off offers.

I worked in Inventory for Princess Cruises years ago. Once in a great while we would have a major oversell situation which would require voluntary and even involuntary buy-offs. I was one of the people that would call travel agents with the offer. The offer sweetened as the sailing closed in. As I stated, this was quite rare and really got everyone worked up. Now I understand it's an everyday occurrence at Princess Cruises.

Ernie

But Ernie.. correct me if I am wrong, but when final payments are due, the line knows who has paid and who hasn't and has a pretty firm idea of what bookings could be at risk. And that's two months out. So really what you are saying is that part of their strategy is to collect revenue twice on some of the cabins. It's not like the cruise line has to worry about giving anyone back their money after the deadline has passed. OK, as a business person I understand maximizing yield.. but the reports coming out of Baltimore are that groups of 27 or more being turned away.. I have trouble believing all 27 people were in the GTY category.

An airplane is always going to take off with a number of people/seats sold at refundable fares, and we know many of those people won't show up... but ships don't really operate that way... and people don't think of a cruise ship as basic transportation. So it's easy to see how these disgruntled people are never going to be happy.

I dont care who does what.....it stinks.....I can't imagine looking forward to a cruise and getting bumped.

I'm wondering if.... after individual sales are well underway... if a large group (like conventions or awards/incentives) may be trying to book the ship. Maybe there are only 150 cabins actually available, but the group needs 250. Would the cruise line want the guaranteed 250 sold in one chunk versus relying on individual bookings of 150 cabins? If so, that would mean 100 cabins would be oversold & the cruiseline would need to "bump" 100 cabins worth of passengers. I have no idea how this actually works, but was just wondering if this type thing could happen. All I know is, when I get to Baltimore on Sunday, they would have to call the folks in white coats to take me away should I find I could not board!!

I saw the question but didn't see the answer: Does anyone know if anyone bumped had anything other than a guarantee?

It could be that guarantees become the "stand-by" status of cruise lines. The whole idea of gurantees seemed a little strange to me to start with.