Bermuda law change will affect P&O same sex weddings

On the news this morning Bermuda has banned same sex marriage. They only started to allow it last year if I remember correctly.

P&O advertised same sex weddings, as they fly under the flag of Bermuda, which will presumably now all have to be cancelled.

I feel extremely sorry for anyone who has their wedding plans disrupted by this. While P &O can do nothing about a change in the law I do hope they treat any subsequent cancellations sensitively.

The news mentioned that it would affect a number of land based tour operators and ships offering weddings.

That is so infuriating [emoji35]

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Is it not the case that when at sea a ship is subject to maritime law, not the law of the country in which it is registered, which is why captains can conduct marriage ceremonies and burials at sea rather than it having to be an ordained minister?

Whilst the Captains may have the authority, they still need legal back-up to make the actual marriage legal. That is why P&O cannot offer marriages on board Britannia, as she is registered in the UK. The other ships are registered in Bermuda who do allow marriage at sea. P&O have said they will offer an alternative "Commitment Ceremony" to those who have booked a same-sex wedding. I hope they will also offer the option of cancellation with full refund - even though is not their fault.

Sadly, Bermuda is far from alone in the Caribbean area in having out-dated and discriminatory laws. Homosexuality for males is still illegal in Antigua & Barbuda, Barbados, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, St Kitts & Nevis, St Vincent and Trinidad & Tobago. Whilst they may not be imposed, the penalty is anything between 5 & 10 years imprisonment or heavy fines. It is one of the reasons I do not care for the Caribbean.

Thank you for the clarification Andrew.

How sad for those who have booked their special day with P&O. I, too, hope they will offer cancellation and full refunds as presumably the couple will have to organise a civil or church ceremony back home to make things legal?

Very upsetting news indeed especially as they initially agreed to same sex marriages and now have taken this retrograde step. More than a little embarrassing for UK government I would think who stand up in the world from LGBT rights and this happens in one of their dependencies.

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P.s. should read for LGBT rights

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Very upsetting news indeed especially as they initially agreed to same sex marriages and now have taken this retrograde step. More than a little embarrassing for UK government I would think who stand up in the world from LGBT rights and this happens in one of their dependencies.

 

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Apparently the foreign secretary could have done something but chose not to.

The thing is this will affect Bermuda flag ship weddings regardless of the part of the world they are sailing in at the time.

While it would be a lovely gesture in the circumstances I'm not sure that P&O (or the other lines involved) will offer full refunds. Remember that it is not just the couple being married who are likely to have a booking. We have seen large weddings at sea where the extended family and friends have all booked the cruise for the big event. They sometimes have half the suites and mini suites on a ship.

Add to that the usual sundries, flights, trains, hotels, insurance policy etc etc and it could be a whole big mess for anyone who decides that they would prefer to cancel.

A commitment ceremony is at least something as an option but it's not the same as a wedding when that is what the couple had planned.

I wonder if any of the cruise companies will take a stand and change their registration in protest?

I wonder if any of the cruise companies will take a stand and change their registration in protest?

I don't know much about the subject, but I doubt it. Aren't there reasons (flexible registration and other laws, tax breaks, etc.) which are the whole reason why ships are registered in places like the Bahamas, Barbados, S. Korea, and so on? These will far outweigh any other considerations.

I don't know much about the subject, but I doubt it. Aren't there reasons (flexible registration and other laws, tax breaks, etc.) which are the whole reason why ships are registered in places like the Bahamas, Barbados, S. Korea, and so on? These will far outweigh any other considerations.

You are right these considerations will no doubt outweigh anything else but I think that any company that did so would make a real statement about their values.

Thank you for the clarification Andrew.

 

How sad for those who have booked their special day with P&O. I, too, hope they will offer cancellation and full refunds as presumably the couple will have to organise a civil or church ceremony back home to make things legal?

Very few Churches are able to offer same-sex weddings. Legislation specifically prohibits it in the Church of England and of course, the Catholic Church would not entertain the idea.

I don't know much about the subject, but I doubt it. Aren't there reasons (flexible registration and other laws, tax breaks, etc.) which are the whole reason why ships are registered in places like the Bahamas, Barbados, S. Korea, and so on? These will far outweigh any other considerations.

Indeed. These countries are used for solely commercial reasons. Sadly, but understandably, the cruise lines are only interested in profit, not human rights. If they were interested in human rights, they wouldn't be offering cruises such as the Arabian Gulf itineraries.

It will be interesting to see where P&O and Cunard register their new ships. Britannia is registered in the UK but is that only because of her name? The same could also be said of Queen Elizabeth. All the other ships in both fleets are registered in Bermuda.

I read somewhere on a similar thread that ships registered in the UK were not licensed to perform any marriages. If this is right it would mean that no marriages could be performed on Britannia. Can someone please verify whether or not this is correct

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I read somewhere on a similar thread that ships registered in the UK were not licensed to perform any marriages. If this is right it would mean that no marriages could be performed on Britannia. Can someone please verify whether or not this is correct

 

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Correct. Only blessings.

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On the news this morning Bermuda has banned same sex marriage. They only started to allow it last year if I remember correctly.

 

P&O advertised same sex weddings, as they fly under the flag of Bermuda, which will presumably now all have to be cancelled.

 

I feel extremely sorry for anyone who has their wedding plans disrupted by this. While P &O can do nothing about a change in the law I do hope they treat any subsequent cancellations sensitively.

 

The news mentioned that it would affect a number of land based tour operators and ships offering weddings.

Seems strange when the law has only changed last year to allow this

I know when we were onboard AZURA for a month over Xmas & New Year that Robert Camby did 3 same sex Weddings :cool:

Seems strange when the law has only changed last year to allow this

I know when we were onboard AZURA for a month over Xmas & New Year that Robert Camby did 3 same sex Weddings :cool:

I understand that same sex marriages were not allowed in Bemuda until last year, when a court case established that they were in fact possible under the law as it then stood. A referendum on the subject had produced a large majority against gay marriage so the Bemuda government then legislated to change the law. I understand that a form of civil partnership has been introduced for same sex couples, but whether this will be available on cruise ships remains to be seen.

And whilst we are on this subject, it is worthwhile noting that the Northern Ireland Assembly has still not made same-sex marriage legal there. Even the Isle of Man, where homosexuality was illegal right up to 1992(!) has progressed sufficiently to legalise same-sex marriage.

Perhaps they should register in Malta as a few other cruise lines do.

Or maybe the British Government should make it more attractive to register ships here and modify the marriage regulations to legalise marriage at sea on British ships. They could then have revenue from 20 or so ships between P&O, Cunard, Fred Olsen, CMV, Saga and Marella.

It makes you wonder, what other things could be affected by laws in the country of registry?

I'll be generic here, but say the ships are registered in Florin, and they decide that alcohol is "not their thing", would that then have to apply to cruise line also?

I guess they'd probably just change the registry to Guilder - but what if they ruled that gambling was a no-go?

An unlikey scenario, I know, but it makes you think.

It is my understanding that when a ship is in port it is subject to the laws of that country. When it is at sea it is subject to the laws of the country in which it is registered. So in theory if a ship was registered in a country which forbaid the sale of alcohol then it would not be permitted to sell it.

Any marriage whether same sex or not is registered in the country the ship is registered in no matter where at sea the marriage takes place.

Bermuda's Supreme Court has overturned the law banning equal marriage.