Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

I just returned from a five day cruise on the Ruby and thought I would share some interesting information that various members of the staff divulged to me with regard to tipping and pooled tips. Some of what I have to say may rub some people the wrong way, but so be it. I have never seen some of this information passed along on the boards before and feel that it is important that we all understand how the wait staff and cabin stewards are compensated. Needless to say, I was shocked by some of the things I heard about how callous and inconsiderate some of our fellow passengers can be and I am somewhat embarrassed (and angry) that fellow cruisers with the same loyalty level as me on Princess are responsible for many of the problems. Let me explain that comment a little later….

Princess, as with most cruise lines, has gone to an auto-tipping system rather than the traditional envelope of tips on the last night of the cruise. This has been in place for quite some time now, probably close to 10 years. Rather than presenting your wait staff or cabin steward with an envelope on the final night with their tip for the cruise, instead your shipboard account has tips automatically added to your bill on a daily basis, currently $11.50/day for a non-suite cabin. These tips are divided up among the various departments (housekeeping, dining, etc) via a pool system (more on that in a bit). From all I have read on these boards, if you choose to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account and instead present an envelope with a cash tip to your wait staff or cabin steward, they must return that tip to the pool. This was in fact confirmed by the staff I spoke with. However, if you leave auto-tips on your account (which I feel you should without question) and tip above that with an envelope, the individual can keep that extra tip as their own….with one caveat…they are required to verify that the cabin that provided the tip did in fact leave auto-tips on their shipboard account.

Now comes the interesting stuff…Princess has gone to a newer internal system recently as it relates to “pooling” of tips. Pooling of tips is now done by ship class. ALL tips collected on the auto-tip system on “like-class” ships in the fleet are pooled together and distributed to the staff based on a point system. For example, ALL tips for a 7 day period collected from the Ruby, Emerald and Crown, are pooled together by HQ, and distributed back to the staff on a “point system”. The same applies to all tips collected on the Island and Coral in a given period. I am not clear how it works with ships that are one of a kind like the Royal (at least for now). Tips from the pool to the wait staff and housekeeping are determined by the number of “points” that person has (a function of seniority, ratings from surveys, and job classification). This system was implemented to protect staff from removal of auto-tips, less than capacity cruises, and scheduled/unscheduled dry docks. It is my understanding that since this was implemented, the staff’s income has become more consistent and has helped with employee retention and overall crew satisfaction.

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account. All these people work hard to support themselves and perhaps a family back home. If you are not happy with the service you receive, removing auto-tips does NOT punish the person providing the poor service…it hurts them all. Giving poor grades to the person or staff that let you down in your post-cruise survey is more harmful than anything you can do, since it can take points away from the person. Remember…points determine their share of the tip pool. Cruise fares are so cheap now, the non-salaried staff depends on tips to earn a living. Auto-tips should be considered as a mandatory cost to your cruise…I wish Princess would make it impossible to remove them from your account.

And according to the staff, who is the biggest offender of auto-tip removal? I’ll give you a hint….it’s not the Blue cards (or the Red, Gold or Silver)….I was truly shocked to find out that it is the most-experienced cruisers that are guilty of this. How embarrassing….makes me wonder why first time cruisers seem to get upgrades more often than those of us at the higher loyalty levels.

Please don’t shoot the messenger…I am only passing along information provided to me from the staff, since I took an interest in how they were compensated. I hope that by posting this, I will change the thinking of some of my fellow passengers that weren’t aware of the variables that go into the staff’s pay. All of them work so hard to ensure we all have a great cruise and I think it stinks that the actions of a few “entitled” passengers can have such a negative impact on the morale of a crew. If you are unhappy with your service, use your pen, not your wallet. That has a far bigger impact in the big picture. After reading this, I hope you now recognize that there is NO justification for removing auto-tips

Very interesting! Thanks Chris for taking the time to outline this.

Well said Chris. I agree completely

Thanks for sharing. Some of this I already knew, but some was new. We always leave auto tips and always will, no matter the service. If we get bad service(which we never have but only have 3 cruises under our belts so far) we will work with the appropriate people to get things straightened out, rather than not tip.

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Not defending tip removers (never done it myself), but most blue cards probaly don't know they can remove the tips.

Unfortunately those that remove tips onboard, probally minimal tip on land also.

Thanks for confirming how the tipping really works. We knew about the auto-tip/extra tip situation, but, interesting about the sharing among the same class ships. We also try to remember names of the folks who seem to work extra hard and make our cruise enjoyable when it comes to filling out the comment cards and surveys. Also agree about the auto-tipping should be made non removable.

Good to hear some actual facts. :cool:

PS: If anyone at Princess is reading this the OP's comments should be required reading for everyone who cruises!

Confirmed that lotus spa is adding 15% to all services too. Marked clearly on the receipt, and on the appointments desk too

Thank you for your post and I agree with you.

Marion

You're singing to the choir Chris; but the people who remove tips are not likely to change.

Mike:)

On our last cruise (Emerald Princess 10 day in March), we tipped extra cash on the last night to a lovely server from Peru that we had interaction with in Club Fusion & the International Cafe. She accepted graciously, but said what would really help would be if we recognized her service in our comments to Princess which we made sure we did.

It seems this may be important for the crew also.

On our last cruise (Emerald Princess 10 day in March), we tipped extra cash on the last night to a lovely server from Peru that we had interaction with in Club Fusion & the International Cafe. She accepted graciously, but said what would really help would be if we recognized her service in our comments to Princess which we made sure we did.

It seems this may be important for the crew also.

We were told similarly onboard the Ruby in February. That comments on the after cruise survey were far more important than the "you made a difference cards" available at the Purser's desk.

Mike:)

We always tip and will definitely leave the auto-tip and reward extra those who do a nice job. But this is why I would love to see restaurants and cruise lines just add the tip into the cost (since it technically is anyway) and just pay the staff more. Less hassle, less bookkeeping, and overall happier employees who will probably stay longer.

The third paragraph is new info to me (and probably many of us) so thank you for posting this.

It seems that whenever someone posts about removing the autotips, many of us will give the info that you put in the first two paragraphs. Amazingly there'll be some who insist that we are just making that up. Even though some posting the info about the tip pools are veteran Princess cruisers. I think either they want to believe their way (assuming they're telling the truth about tipping directly in cash) is better or they simply want to get away with out paying the money.

We always tip and will definitely leave the auto-tip and reward extra those who do a nice job. But this is why I would love to see restaurants and cruise lines just add the tip into the cost (since it technically is anyway) and just pay the staff more. Less hassle, less bookkeeping, and overall happier employees who will probably stay longer.

on the australian based princess ships all gratuities are included in the fare if booked with a local TA and things work out well

Chris, thanks for "spelling" this all out. I hope it does some good.:)

I notice that you have 365 views and 13 replies .;)

We had a great steward on our Ruby cruise a couple of weeks ago, and we did tip him before leaving. I also did the survey when received it in email and gave his name on the recommendation page. So glad I did after reading this. :):)

We have never removed the auto-tips. There is absolutely no need for that to happen.:mad:

That is very informative. We have always just use the auto tip but was thinking of removing it and giving cash to the staff. Now we will give extra to whomever warrants it.

I know that staff on the ship are paid very low wages so I do not have a problem tipping but I am not so generous with the longshoreman who collects luggage for transport to ship. In Canada at least, they are part of the union and are paid very well. In some part of the world, they might not be so well paid.

"biggest offender of auto-tip removal"

This is no surprise to me. Many years ago my wife and I were invited to a pre cruise party several months before a cruise and late in the evening after many drinks, four of the six woman mentioned that they remove the auto-tips. When I made my displeasure known, they jumped in and said they give big tips to people that do extra things for. Sorry but I didn't buy that. And I agree that they probably are poor tippers on land also.

I know there are many well traveled

When there is a thread about how much to tip for room service, people say $1 per order up to $10. If you are on a 21 day cruise and order something from room service twice a day, do you really think they tip $400 to room service besides the MDR and the steward, bar service, etc. I think not.

On one trip my wife had gotten friendly with a lady through the roll call. We were at the same hotel and took the hotel shuttle to port. When we got our baggage from the back, I was the first to tip the driver. This couple picked up their luggage and stepped back - never gave him a tip. Then a porter came over and took our large pieces, again, I tipped first and stepped back. This couple just set their luggage down and walked away. They cruise at least once a month and take long cruises and are the first to complain if they are not happy. I really am thinking that they probably take the auto tips off also. They always cruise in the cheapest cabin- I think I know how they manage to cruise so much.

We also have cruised with many friends who are very generous with their tips. The crew works so hard and always have big smiles and try to do whatever they can for us - How in the world can people take money away from them! I wish they would not allowed them to be taken off.

It is interesting that you can't opt out of tips for beverages and I assume Lotus Spa but it is acceptable to opt out for your room/dining tips. Should just be mandatory.

The new pooling system makes sense, as it definitely spreads the impact for adverse affects a little better (for example, I am certain tips were down on the recent crown sailing).

I'll see if I can dig into the point system a little.

The only downside I can see is it probably takes the crew member a little longer to see the tips as the auto-tips have to be reported across the ship classes, and with different sail dates they must be doing on it a regular schedule (monthly?)

We always tip and will definitely leave the auto-tip and reward extra those who do a nice job. But this is why I would love to see restaurants and cruise lines just add the tip into the cost (since it technically is anyway) and just pay the staff more. Less hassle, less bookkeeping, and overall happier employees who will probably stay longer.

This is what is happening when the Dawn, Sea and Sun sail from OZ. I understand that the tips are included in the cruise fare, as some Aussies were removing the Auto Tips and not tipping individually. Example, 104 night RTW cruise is from about $190 a night (inside). Many do tip staff they have received excellent service from, eg Stateroom and Dining Room Stewards. Note, tipping is not the norm in Australia for Australians.;)

There is also no 15% on other items. As an example, Grolsch is $8 a bottle, draught (draft) beer $5.50 and cocktail's and martini's average $10.

partial quote

...Now comes the interesting stuff…Princess has gone to a newer internal system recently as it relates to “pooling” of tips. Pooling of tips is now done by ship class. ALL tips collected on the auto-tip system on “like-class” ships in the fleet are pooled together and distributed to the staff based on a point system. For example, ALL tips for a 7 day period collected from the Ruby, Emerald and Crown, are pooled together by HQ, and distributed back to the staff on a “point system”. The same applies to all tips collected on the Island and Coral in a given period. I am not clear how it works with ships that are one of a kind like the Royal (at least for now). Tips from the pool to the wait staff and housekeeping are determined by the number of “points” that person has (a function of seniority, ratings from surveys, and job classification). This system was implemented to protect staff from removal of auto-tips, less than capacity cruises, and scheduled/unscheduled dry docks. It is my understanding that since this was implemented, the staff’s income has become more consistent and has helped with employee retention and overall crew satisfaction....

 

CRLess, thank you for your report. Your comment regarding a new policy of sharing auto gratuities across all the ships in the Princess is supported by this quote from the Princess website:

"...During your cruise, regardless of which Princess ship you choose, you will meet staff who provide you with excellent service. Crew members often rotate to different vessels within the Princess fleet which helps to maintain our high standards on every ship. These dedicated workers reflect our philosophy that all crew on all ships are but one family who share in our success.

To simplify the tipping process for our passengers, a discretionary gratuity of $12 per person for mini-suites and suites, and $11.50 per passenger in all other staterooms per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. This gratuity will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including all waitstaff, stateroom stewards, buffet stewards, and housekeeping staff across the fleet..." copied from http://www.princess.com/learn/faq_answer/onboard/experience.jsp

Like many others, I have never removed the auto-tip, and have given added gratuities to crew members in appreciation of their service. But, frankly, I'm not sure how I feel about tipping "across the fleet". There are some cruises where tips are notoriously low, due to cultural differences regarding tipping, etc. Is it possible that this new policy is to the benefit of the cruise line, rather than those members of the crew who do their best to provide good service? Just my personal opinion, but tipping is an expression of appreciation for good service/hard work. Why would I tip for service "across the fleet" for service I haven't received? And why should crew members go the extra mile in anticipation that their service will receive additional remuneration?

I'm not clear on whether the 15% tip added to beverages charges are also shared "across the fleet"?

I just don't know about this new policy. My suggestion would be for cruise lines to pay the crew a standard amount across the fleet - remove the discretionary auto tip charge, and include that in every passenger's fare (that way, it will be mandatory for all passengers). Those passengers that want to tip an additional amount can and will do so, and crew members should be allowed to keep those tips.

Personally, I wouldn't ask crew members about this policy because I know it is a topic their contract prohibits them from discussing publicly. But hopefully, there will be a way for more to make their opinions made public.

Anyway, thanks again CRLess, I appreciate your sharing this information. A very interesting development.

Regards,

Salacia

Thanks Chris, would never consider removing auto tip and fortunately do not know anyone that does. We tip extra at end of cruise for great service and always use the comment cards-lots and lots of them for great service and the online survey as well. Seadeck2

In all of our days of cruising, we've removed $5 for one day from housekeeping when we hadn't been able to unpack in a cabin filthy with smoke and nicotine residue. It attracted the necessary attention, and, finally after 24 hours on the ship, we were able to unpack. We were making a statement and the statement, which hadn't previously been heard, was. On the other hand, only twice have we not tipped our cabin steward extra.

We're not big tippers (compared to some I've read about on CC), or flashy tippers, but we're consistent tippers, and average $3-$4 extra per day for our waiter and cabin steward and $2 extra for our assistant waiter. I'm the tipper of the two of us; having once worked for tips does that to a person. But as I tell DH, imagine what our cruise would be like without the personalized service, but just standard service. Isn't that worth $10 extra each day, beyond the autotip? Of course it is.

As for Elites being cheaper than others, I think it's only because they've had more opportunity to have less than stellar service in the past, and this, more than any other factor, I think, contributes to the removal of the autotip. People have a lousy - fill in the bank, waiter, steward- and think, "He doesn't deserve that much. I'll remove the autotip and then tip who I want to". The problem is that I think "tipping who they want to" generally results in less money overall, and everyone gets affected, and once people do it one time, it's easier to fall into the pattern of doing it again.

On our last cruise (Emerald Princess 10 day in March), we tipped extra cash on the last night to a lovely server from Peru that we had interaction with in Club Fusion & the International Cafe. She accepted graciously, but said what would really help would be if we recognized her service in our comments to Princess which we made sure we did.

It seems this may be important for the crew also.

This is extremely important to the crew, far more than You Made the Difference cards.

Let me start by saying we cruise a lot (over 70 days each year) and do not remove auto tips when on lines like Princess that impose such fees. We also will often give extra tips to specific crew for extraordinary service.

That being said, we are totally opposed to this entire faux-tip system used by Princess (and many other lines). Calling the system "tips" is just one big lie! It is simply a way for the cruise lines to market a lower price, while using their faux-tip system as a way to increase the cruise price without fully disclosing that in their ads. If they simply increase the price of the cruise by $13 a passenger day, and then enforce a no-tipping policy, this would be a much more honest approach.

Now, we also have some strong feelings about crew compensation. To be blunt, we see it as none of our business! When we go into a restaurant we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the cooks in the kitchen, the dishwasher, the laundry man/woman, etc. When we go to a hotel we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the desk clerk, the cleaning staff, etc. When we fly on the airlines we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the flight attendants. the gate agent, etc. So why in the world should we be concerned about the compensation of the crew on a ship...most of whom we never even see!

Folks need to understand that nobody is "impressed" into cruise ship service. The crew competes to get their jobs, they are not slaves, and they can choose to quit anytime they please (although they will pay their own way home if they do not complete their contract). We also have some friends (both Officers and regular crew) who work on cruise ships. What they talk about is not their tips, but the respect (or lack thereof) they get from passengers. We see passengers mistreat crew on every cruise and assume their attitude is "we pay tips so we don't have to be polite." If you are in a position to ask crew members what they want from passengers, they will usually say they want to be treated with respect and consideration. Sure, they appreciate any extra tips...but more importantly they appreciate the considerate passenger. When we talk to our friends they do not talk about tips..but rather the nice passengers and the "jerks" they meet during their work.

A couple of years ago we were on a long (62 day) HAL cruise and became pretty friendly with the bar staff in a certain bar...who served us every day. They were so good that we actually wrote a note to the hotel manager praising these folks. The ripple effect was amazing. We got thanks from ships beverage manager, hotel director, and lots of smiles and thanks from the bar staff. The impact was far greater then we would normally get by slipping a twenty to a staff member (we do that too). So my advice to any cruiser is that if you encounter an exceptional crew member, make sure his/her chain of command is aware of that fact.

Hank

Hank

Hank

I couldn't possibly agree more strongly with your third paragraph.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to post, as some here do, that I'd actually inquired of staff what their compensation arrangements were. Imagine if it were turnabout and one's room steward was suddenly curious about one's take-home pay, one's average 401(k) deducation, and how much FICA one was paying in monthly. Some of our fellow cruisers are seriously boundary-challenged.