Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

[boaterette]

In the US tipped employees are paid a sub-minimum wage AND have taxes taken out based on the gross revenue of the business allocated per tipped employee. It is not unusual for waitresses to not even get a paycheck as all is taken out for Taxes based on the allocation of gross revenue. (The last I looked it was assumed by the IRS that the tipped employee makes 8% tips and they are taxed on that basis.)

 

That being said, most tipped employees I know make all of their money on tips. My granddaughter just started at a waitress and was making $100 per day in tips alone, working part time!

 

We have a hard time in Europe not tipping like in the US. It almost feels wrong, so the cultural differences cut both ways!

 

In California waiters and waitresses are paid normal minimum wage not a reduced rate plus their tips.

[baldercash]

I am not sure why you think your cabin steward should receive less tip for that day because there was a problem in the dining room.

 

If I went to the front desk and complained about the waiter that served the recycled bread basket and withdrew my tip for the day there likely would have been more impact. The waiters would get a mark against there tip amount and the Maitre D would be reprimanded for running a shoddy service.

 

As I already stated I give the steward extra tip and my wife does as well for exemplary service.

[swedish weave]

One question I always have had is "What if you tip them with a gift rather than cash? How is that divided up?" In the old days before cell phones, we used to give our cabin steward a $20 calling card that they could use at pay phones ashore to call home, etc. These days, I am wondering about perhaps some candies or something similar.....anyone had experience with non-cash gift giving (on top of auto-tip, of course)?

 

I always take a bag of "toys" for the crew. Things like LED flashlights, hair clips, nail files, magnetic necklaces, etc. No way could they put an accurate value on that stuff, but since I don't mess with the auto gratuity, it doesn't make a difference. I will say that the "kids" seem to like the stuff and some ask for extras to take home to their families.

Edited April 26, 2014 by swedish weave

[cruzsnooze]

When we go on a cruise, the furthest thing from our minds is how the crew gets compensated or how the hotel charge is distributed. I don't really understand why there is so much discussion about it.

Like :D

I leave my auto tips intact and no worries no stress because I met my obligation and the cruise can meet theirs by distributing them. I have heard many sob stories from crew and i just say OH I Understand and take it with a grain of salt.

Who cares so much about what other people tip. It's none of my business.

I think crew accept the gifts people offer graciously and then throw them away. They do not have the space to store a lot of stuff in their tiny shared cabins. But they know enough not to alienate the passenger handing these gifts out because they are looking for tips.

Edited April 26, 2014 by cruzsnooze

[shredie]

Like :D

I have heard many sob stories from crew and i just say OH I Understand and take it with a grain of salt.

...........

I think crew accept the gifts people offer graciously and then throw them away. They do not have the space to store a lot of stuff in their tiny shared cabins.

 

I never get the sob stories. I guess I don't look sympathetic or something. To tell the truth, I would be annoyed if anyone tried to tell me one. I agree with the notion that crew members don't want or need little gifts. But they aren't going to say that to someone offering them. The best "gift" would be cash, IMO.

[lexdisic]

The none refundable deposit rule changed approx 2 years ago, we can now get a refund up to 180 from sailing and get any price drops :D. Unfortunately not many people read the small print or book with TA who ooops forget to tell them that nougat of information

 

May be that's why we never stop the tips because I'm a savvy cruiser :rolleyes:

 

I stand corrected, I thought US citizens got their deposits back up to final payment.

[CCFC]

I have just remembered that one of the Xmas cards I gave out was to a senior barman it was Boxing day (the day after Xmas in the US) and we had been in St Thomas and he said he spent the money in the card that day in Hooters and thanked us for it. Not sure if he was meant to hand it in but he didn't.

Edited April 26, 2014 by CCFC

[deise17311]

Cruises should add the tips to the fare, make it all inclusive and call it a day! Solves the problem of regional tipping problems...

[ccrain]

In California waiters and waitresses are paid normal minimum wage not a reduced rate plus their tips.

 

There are several states that do that. Of course CA does reduce the minimum wage for sheepherders. (Go figure...)

[24639]

As CCFC has asked exactly what is the purpose of the list - passengers to be keel hauled.:eek:

 

 

Funny! I worked for tips for 20 years. 15 years in the same establishment. One day our parking lot had to be dug up for some reason and the customers kept asking me what was going on. I told them I was worried they were going to find the bodies of the people that had stiffed me in the past.

With that bit of background said. I would have never worked in a place with pooled tips. I always made twice as much as most of the servers because I had a regular clientele who my manager referred to as my Fan Club. There is no incentive for the other employees to do better because they can just let someone else to the work. The cruise ship industry is just different. The survey and comment card is the key incentive that keeps the employees striving for excellence. If you raise the fare and pay a higher wage, eventually you are going to have a ship full of employees who act like the folks who work at the DMV or the Social Security Office. I have seen this attitude in other countries in dining establishments where a living wage is paid. I will never forget one particularly surly woman in a Thai restaurant in London.

I think the Op made a very nice, straightforward informational post. And for those of you who think it was intrusive, it was not. I am speaking from experience. There are times that you build a relationship with a guest and you can have an open conversation about how you are compensated. It never offended me. But, by the same rule, it is not right for a service person to bring up the subject to shame someone or look for sympathy. Every person should have to work as a server for one week of their life. You will change your tune about tipping. Most people lack the organizational skills to multi task in a high pressure environment for long hours. They just cannot do it. Just like I cannot work on cars or design a computer program. God gives everyone different abilities. I have seen people wash out after one or two shifts many times. There are some people who are just cheap and will not ever tip. Please don't confuse being frugal with being cheap. Being cheap is when you are willing to hurt someone to save money and that is what you are doing when you take advantage of the service but refuse to compensate for it.

For fun I broke down a typical vacation day and the tips that would be involved in a land based vacation. Let’s say you spend several days at a hotel in New York City. Beyond the room and the food. I am comparing tips only. You will want to go eat breakfast and tip your server. You want a cab? You are going to tip the guy out front to hail that cab. Then you will tip the driver. Lunch, another tip. Want to see a show? Tip the concierge for obtaining tickets. Time for dinner before the show ? Tip for the dinner and the cabbie who got you there. After the show a cab ride home and another tip. Perhaps you will stop for a drink or coffee and another tip. At the end of your stay you will leave the chambermaid a tip in an envelope for keeping your room clean and in NYC they do not go to the lengths that our beloved Stewart does, believe me. The way I figure it I would have spent as much or more in tips than I would on the auto tips on a cruise ship. Please don’t start flaming me if my numbers are a bit off. You get the idea.

Auto tips for two for a day 23.00

Land vacation tips for two for a day:

Breakfast 20.00, tip 4.00

Lunch 20.00, tip 4.00

Dinner 30.00-50.00, tip 6.00 to 10.00

Drinks or coffee 10.00, tip 2.00

Taxi, Doorman, Concierge, tips 5.00-10.00

Chambermaid, tip 2.00- 5.00 a day

On the ship we have it all in one place. We don’t even have to think about much beyond “What am I going to wear to dinner?” or “Which bikini hides last night’s five dinner rolls the best?” I love the auto tip!

[shukapaw]

Which bikini hides last night’s five dinner rolls the best?

 

In the words of Larry the Cable Guy, "I don't care who you are, that's funny right there" Cindy, you gave me a real laugh-out-loud moment.

 

Thanks for injecting a bit of humor into a thread that started as informational but is drifting towards being a bit contentious.

 

I found the original post very enlightening.

 

We were on an Alaskan cruise last year and had the misfortune of striking up a conversation with an elderly woman prior to boarding the ship. She was a frequent Princess cruiser and wanted to share her "secret strategy" with us. She always removed the tips from her account and this left her more money to do the things she wanted and to cruise more often. She was very proud of the way she had "beat the system". :(

 

I look at things this way..... The very fact that you are here on this board and are able to afford a cruise probably means you are amongst a lucky 5% or so of the people worldwide in this position. Maybe there is a better way to compensate workers but, like it or not, this is the current system. These workers bust their butts to make your leisure time/vacation enjoyable. You could plead ignorance about the way auto-tips were distributed prior to reading this thread but you can't un-read it now.

 

Just my 2 cents worth

 

Brian

Edited April 26, 2014 by shukapaw

[Pam in CA]

I stand corrected, I thought US citizens got their deposits back up to final payment.

Yes, we do.

 

Sailings of 6 days or less: final payment is due 60 days before sailing

Sailings of 7-30 nights: final payment is due 75 days before sailing

Sailings of 31+ nights: final payment is due 120 days before sailing

 

For some promotions, the deposit is non-refundable. Depending on the promotion, you can get re-fared up to final payment. Not sure about after final payment. Even though I'd originally gotten a really nice discounted fare for my Royal Princess cruise in September, Princess recently reduced the price on my category significantly and I was able to save another $500. Not all categories are on sale so while someone on the same cruise might be re-fared, others might not.

[lexdisic]

Thanks Pam. Perhaps the person that told me wasnt "the savvy" cruiser that they thought.

[caribill]

I have just remembered that one of the Xmas cards I gave out was to a senior barman it was Boxing day (the day after Xmas in the US) and we had been in St Thomas and he said he spent the money in the card that day in Hooters and thanked us for it. Not sure if he was meant to hand it in but he didn't.

 

Bartenders are not included in the daily "auto-tip" and thus are not affected if someone removes the auto-tip. Their tips are automatically added to every bar bill (15%) and shared. Extra tips given to bar personnel may be kept by the individuals and do not have to be handed in to anyone.

[Cruisin' Chick]

...

One question I always have had is "What if you tip them with a gift rather than cash? How is that divided up?" In the old days before cell phones, we used to give our cabin steward a $20 calling card that they could use at pay phones ashore to call home, etc. These days, I am wondering about perhaps some candies or something similar.....anyone had experience with non-cash gift giving (on top of auto-tip, of course)?

 

The problem with giving a non-cash gift is that you don't know these people. And as some have stated, they will graciously accept your gift with a smile, but perhaps inwardly they are thinking that if you had bought the item, maybe you could have instead given the same amount in cash. Usually you won't know the nationality, religion, or even gender of your cabin steward or waiter until you meet them on the first day. They could be allergic to the chocolate or the calling card you give doesn't work for that country. Christmas greeting cards could be worthless to a non-Christian.

[swedish weave]

The problem with giving a non-cash gift is that you don't know these people. And as some have stated' date=' they will graciously accept your gift with a smile, but perhaps inwardly they are thinking that if you had bought the item, maybe you could have instead given the same amount in cash. Usually you won't know the nationality, religion, or even gender of your cabin steward or waiter until you meet them on the first day. They could be allergic to the chocolate or the calling card you give doesn't work for that country. Christmas greeting cards could be worthless to a non-Christian.[/quote']

 

I will argue your point about not knowing these people. If you cruise enough, you will run into both crew and passengers you recall from prior cruises even on other lines.

 

The non-cash gifts I take are a mix that sometimes can be used by either sex.

 

I was reluctant to take some religion related items because I didn't know how they would be accepted. The response was overwhelmingly positive !! I was asked if some could take extras for their family back home.

 

Experience has shown me that these people are genuine and do not necessarily have a love affair with the dollar as some would have you believe.

 

You will find exceptions as in any group of people, but the majority are truly seeking acceptance and praise.

Edited April 26, 2014 by swedish weave

[Wehwalt]

I do not feel the need to give gifts monetary or otherwise, to crew members. The auto tip, I feel, satisfies my obligation to reward good service, except for those things where there is a service charge, and that satisfies my obligation there. That is what it is for, and Princess has most kindly set an appropriate amount and spared me from worrying over a proper amount and distribution when I am on vacation. As for gifts of things, I don't care to do that either. They don't need them and they don't have space to keep them. It is also not my job to make up for any deficiencies in Princess's salary structure.

 

That is to say, it satisfies my obligation other than to show proper appreciation when the service is rendered, which I always do, I hope.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Wehwalt

[Cruisin' Chick]

I will argue your point about not knowing these people. If you cruise enough, you will run into both crew and passengers you recall from prior cruises even on other lines.

 

The non-cash gifts I take are a mix that sometimes can be used by either sex.

 

I was reluctant to take some religion related items because I didn't know how they would be accepted. The response was overwhelmingly positive !! I was asked if some could take extras for their family back home.

 

Experience has shown me that these people are genuine and do not necessarily have a love affair with the dollar as some would have you believe.

 

You will find exceptions as in any group of people, but the majority are truly seeking acceptance and praise.

 

It's not that they have a love affair. It's more that money they can send back to their families would be more welcome than a trinket that they will probably toss.

[LMaxwell]

I would never choose to give someone a snack, trinket, or gift over MONEY if I was appreciative of their service. They are not a cat or dog, pets which are rewarded for good behavior. When I encounter staff that deserve additional gratuity I hand them cash; they can go spend it on snacks, trinkets, gifts or any other of a million things they may want. They may appreciate the gesture and kindness, sure, but ultimately they are working those long contracts and hours in order to earn money.

[swedish weave]

It's not that they have a love affair. It's more that money they can send back to their families would be more welcome than a trinket that they will probably toss.

 

You view these people from a completely different perspective than I do.

 

I see some crew members wearing the "trinkets" I give them long after they receive them. Some may toss them, but many more do not. I don't believe these people are crass enough to ask me for an item and then toss it into the trash. Have you seen them do this ??

 

On my last cruise, a girl asked me if I had any more of the religious items I gave to her on a previous cruse. Her mother loved the item and she gave it to her.

 

I could relate many other incidents. but I don't relish being called a liar.

Edited April 26, 2014 by swedish weave

[shredie]

 

On my last cruise, a girl asked me if I had any more of the religious items I gave to her on a previous cruse. Her mother loved the item and she gave it to her.

 

 

You are obviously a generous person, but I don't quite see how one girl appreciating one gift would translate to everybody loves everything anyone gives them. This seems especially significant when we are talking about items with a religious purpose. Cruise ships are populated with members of many different religions, and in the spirit of generosity, I would not want to offend someone by imposing my religious beliefs (in the form of a trinket) on them. I don't think I would appreciate a crew member offering me anything of a religious nature, either. I paid my fare; the crew member has a job for which he is paid. The way I look at it is if I didn't go on the cruise, the crew would not have jobs. I don't see why we have to be close friends, too.

[swedish weave]

I would never choose to give someone a snack, trinket, or gift over MONEY if I was appreciative of their service. They are not a cat or dog, pets which are rewarded for good behavior. When I encounter staff that deserve additional gratuity I hand them cash; they can go spend it on snacks, trinkets, gifts or any other of a million things they may want. They may appreciate the gesture and kindness, sure, but ultimately they are working those long contracts and hours in order to earn money.

 

The company I worked for issued awards for exceptional behaviour. They also issued pins and other items. I still have them, but the money is long gone.

 

I value many things more than money, but maybe I am different than some of you !!!!

[swedish weave]

You are obviously a generous person, but I don't quite see how one girl appreciating one gift would translate to everybody loves everything anyone gives them. This seems especially significant when we are talking about items with a religious purpose. Cruise ships are populated with members of many different religions, and in the spirit of generosity, I would not want to offend someone by imposing my religious beliefs (in the form of a trinket) on them. I don't think I would appreciate a crew member offering me anything of a religious nature, either. I paid my fare; the crew member has a job for which he is paid. The way I look at it is if I didn't go on the cruise, the crew would not have jobs. I don't see why we have to be close friends, too.

 

To be clear --- I am not a religious person, but I find items that I like whether or not they carry religious connontations. I give them to whomever wants them.

 

If I got this reaction from only one person, I may agree with you, but when the "kids" gather around and ask for specific items, I don't have any problem giving them what I have brought with me.

 

If you treat the waitstaff like servants, they will react as servants. I don't do that, and I get great service on all my cruises.

[Suandgaz]

Thanks for posting this. We will be Princess 'newbies' in September (Emerald) having been on The Eclipse 3x times. We were unsure about tipping as we have always seen queues of people 'removing' their autotips in the past, so thought we may do this on Princess but were unsure how to reward different waiters on anytime dining. We have always pre-paid because we like anytime dining - and never had a problem with this. So we'll just carry on as normal, and as you say, complain about the service rather than punish everyone! PS - not ALL Brits are tight sods! ;)

[JAF1]

Quote.

Let me start by saying we cruise a lot (over 70 days each year) and do not remove auto tips when on lines like Princess that impose such fees. We also will often give extra tips to specific crew for extraordinary service.

 

 

That being said, we are totally opposed to this entire faux-tip system used by Princess (and many other lines). Calling the system "tips" is just one big lie! It is simply a way for the cruise lines to market a lower price, while using their faux-tip system as a way to increase the cruise price without fully disclosing that in their ads. If they simply increase the price of the cruise by $13 a passenger day, and then enforce a no-tipping policy, this would be a much more honest approach.

 

 

Now, we also have some strong feelings about crew compensation. To be blunt, we see it as none of our business! When we go into a restaurant we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the cooks in the kitchen, the dishwasher, the laundry man/woman, etc. When we go to a hotel we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the desk clerk, the cleaning staff, etc. When we fly on the airlines we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the flight attendants. the gate agent, etc. So why in the world should we be concerned about the compensation of the crew on a ship...most of whom we never even see!

 

 

Folks need to understand that nobody is "impressed" into cruise ship service. The crew competes to get their jobs, they are not slaves, and they can choose to quit anytime they please (although they will pay their own way home if they do not complete their contract). We also have some friends (both Officers and regular crew) who work on cruise ships. What they talk about is not their tips, but the respect (or lack thereof) they get from passengers. We see passengers mistreat crew on every cruise and assume their attitude is "we pay tips so we don't have to be polite." If you are in a position to ask crew members what they want from passengers, they will usually say they want to be treated with respect and consideration. Sure, they appreciate any extra tips...but more importantly they appreciate the considerate passenger. When we talk to our friends they do not talk about tips..but rather the nice passengers and the "jerks" they meet during their work.

 

 

A couple of years ago we were on a long (62 day) HAL cruise and became pretty friendly with the bar staff in a certain bar...who served us every day. They were so good that we actually wrote a note to the hotel manager praising these folks. The ripple effect was amazing. We got thanks from ships beverage manager, hotel director, and lots of smiles and thanks from the bar staff. The impact was far greater then we would normally get by slipping a twenty to a staff member (we do that too). So my advice to any cruiser is that if you encounter an exceptional crew member, make sure his/her chain of command is aware of that fact.

...........".....................

 

Thank you for a different point of view and total agree with what you said.

Yes we do remove auto tips but always tip the staff directly.

 

A few points that I would like to express and is only my opinion.

Here in Australia tipping is not applied to most services as the wages are a lot higher so you will find that a lot of Aussie do remove the tips . I agree that if the cruise lines pay their staff a decent wage instead of treating them like slaves it would be better for everyone.

As for cruises being cheap that maybe the case in the states but here in Australia our prices are a lot higher so tips should be included in the total price as we all get the same service.

Tips means a voluntary reward if you wish, not compulsory.

The staff do work very hard and in most cases deserves their tips.

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Agree with your comments. We do not remove the auto tips but calculate them into the cost of the cruise before booking. We do wish cruise lines would stop the automatic tip system and instead pay the staff a decent wage and then leave it up to us if we wish to leave a tip or not. Visited New Zealand last year and found it much nicer not to have to automatically work out after every meal how much the waiter/waitress expected as a mandatory tip as we do in the States. The service we received in New Zealand was great and the people friendly.