Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

[AE_Collector]

We too agree completely with what I think is the most common feeling posted in this topic. That is that the auto top isn't really a tip but part of the wage for providing excellent service. In an ideal world wages would be bumped up a bit higher for all of these people and the auto tip eliminated. But unless the cruise lines get together and implement it together, it isn't going to happen.

 

Sure we could go on a cruise and only worry about ourself without giving any thought to the people working to serve us. We could convince ourselves that it is none of our business. But that isn't how we operate with anything in life. When ever we buy anything we pay at least some attention to where it is made, how it is packaged and whether we really need it. We don't drive gas guzzling vehicles because they are cool but instead we drive responsible, practical vehicles because we care what our impact is on the earth. So we naturally feel concern for the people serving us on cruise ships as well because they work very hard for unreasonably low wages in our opinion. Sure, no one forced them to take the job but everyone should make a reasonable living for hard work.

 

We are happy in lower cost ocean view and obstructed ocean view cabins which saves us enough that we almost always do back to back cruises, we do lots of Princess shore excursions AND we feel better about ourselves for never removing auto tips and virtually always giving extra to our room steward and waiters as I can't recall a cruise where their service wasn't what we would consider to be absolutely amazing.

 

We do more and more of the blue cards lately and are mentioning more crew members in our final email surveys. As mentioned these all help the hard working crew members and a few extra dollars helps them too.

 

Just our way of looking at the topic, some others obviously see things differently.

 

Terry

Edited May 23, 2014 by AE_Collector

[Wehwalt]

My view on it is that I am glad to have a reasonable set amount to relieve me of the headache of figuring out if I want to tip, and if so, how much. My first cruise, on Carnival 11 years ago, I had no idea what the little envelope left in my cabin the last night was for and took it home with me to use in the mail. If I leave the autotip, well, I've done my bit. That being said, removing the autotip is something I do see as a powerful message when there is bad service. It is something I've only done once, but under the right (wrong?) circumstances I would do it again.

 

I also do not see it as my responsibility to make up for what they call income inequality these days. The poor will never cease from the earth, the Bible tells us, and if I devoted my limited income to trying to make up for any inadequacies of Princess pay, I would add to their number by one. Not my job.

[FritzG]

You are entitled to your opinions, but to call us old or sheep is insulting. :mad:

 

I agree.

 

In good conscience I cannot and will not go on a cruise and allow the crew to take wonderful care of me and then punish them by not paying for that service because I want to make a political statement about the tipping culture. By cutting or lowering tips you're only hurting the crew members, not the cruise line.

 

While the crew members chose their jobs as others have noted, in most cases they couldn't find a job that would support their families as well. They make big sacrifices by not seeing their families for months at a time, but they do it to make their lives better.

[24639]

I agree.

 

In good conscience I cannot and will not go on a cruise and allow the crew to take wonderful care of me and then punish them by not paying for that service because I want to make a political statement about the tipping culture. By cutting or lowering tips you're only hurting the crew members, not the cruise line.

While the crew members chose their jobs as others have noted, in most cases they couldn't find a job that would support their families as well. They make big sacrifices by not seeing their families for months at a time, but they do it to make their lives better.

 

Exactly. One has only to look at a crew members' name tag, note their home country and realize that their choice to work the ships is borne out of necessity. I cannot imagine any well traveled person would be so ignorant as to think there is something better back home for a lot of these nice folks.

I worked for tips for many years and there is a certain personality that is pervasive among non tippers. 99 percent of the time they are not nice people to begin with and I am speaking from experience. We are not going to change them and should just let them go on their merry, self righteous way.

[AE_Collector]

Well said FritzG. You can go through life not caring or you can do small things to make life a little better.

 

Everyone can and will do what they want to do but being a little extra generous in this area makes such a difference to the crew. In our opinion they have always earned it. If the service was just good it wouldn't be such a hot topic but in most cases the service is outstanding.

 

Funny how many people on CC are looking for help with "whatever" from the "experienced Princess people" while others don't want the "experienced Princess people" telling them "what to do or how to behave" even though it was just an informative post by the OP!

 

Terry

Edited May 23, 2014 by AE_Collector

[ceba]

Several years ago we lived in Hong Kong. During that time we had a wonderful Filipino lady that took care of us. It was required by the Philippines Government that she sign a contract of employment with us for an agreed amount. She would then be heavily taxed on that amount and required to send a portion of that money home. Many of the workers would request that the contact show the minimum amount for employment and the balance be paid directly to them. Not an uncommon practice in many countries. As in a lot of places tips don't always get added to the total income made. I don't know what the tax structure is for the people on cruise ships, but it would make sense that the tipping practice puts more money in the workers pocket. (I apologize if this has already been discussed)

Edited May 23, 2014 by ceba

[Loonbeam]

This is on par with many of the agencies that provide cruise ship staff.

 

Any guaranteed income is subject to agency charges and taxes. Any technically optional income is not. So as long as Princess keeps the hotel charge separate and allows it to be modified, income derived from that is subject to lesser or no taxes and fees (depends on the contract)

 

So adding the hotel charge into the fare hurts the crew, the pax (you now have to pay taxes and insurance on higher fares and cannot use OBC for them) and the line, higher taxes on fares...

 

Several years ago we lived in Hong Kong. During that time we had a wonderful Filipino lady that took care of us. It was required by the Philippines Government that she sign a contract of employment with us for an agreed amount. She would then be heavily taxed on that amount and required to send a portion of that money home. Many of the workers would request that the contact show the minimum amount for employment and the balance be paid directly to them. Not an uncommon practice in many countries. As in a lot of places tips don't always get added to the total income made. I don't know what the tax structure is for the people on cruise ships, but it would make sense that the tipping practice puts more money in the workers pocket. (I apologize if this has already been discussed)

[tjwa]

Seems to me that cruise ship staff "tip" the agencies.:(

[mariakitty]

This is on par with many of the agencies that provide cruise ship staff.

 

Any guaranteed income is subject to agency charges and taxes. Any technically optional income is not. So as long as Princess keeps the hotel charge separate and allows it to be modified, income derived from that is subject to lesser or no taxes and fees (depends on the contract)

 

So adding the hotel charge into the fare hurts the crew, the pax (you now have to pay taxes and insurance on higher fares and cannot use OBC for them) and the line, higher taxes on fares...

 

This is exactly what I feel gratuities are all about. The cruise lines don't view tips in the traditional sense of rewarding good service, rather the gratuities are a way to detach part of the cruise cost from the "sticker price" at booking. I see gratuities as a three-pronged system, all to the advantage of he cruise line:

 

1. Booking fare is lower, making the fares appear more competitive with other cruise lines, and lower in appearance to the consumer. If the tips were added to the price, some might think twice about a cruise vacation as the real cruise cost can be significantly more than the original fare.

 

2. Taxes and fees are lower because the booking fare is lower with gratuities treated separately. This is a benefit to the consumer, but also a significant benefit to the cruise line. I don't begin to claim I know the accounting practice and payroll laws for Princess, but generally speaking the payroll tax for the employer would be lower if the wage is lower.

 

3. Auto gratuities are also a way to track performance of employees. If one employee is having tips removing more frequently it could suggest a problem. Gratuities vs. higher wages is rather like holding the carrot in front of the employee, as their performance is directly tied to what appears to be discretionary income.

 

The bottom line is that auto tipping benefits the cruise line more than anyone, so I don't see it going away anytime soon. I personally prefer it over handing out envelopes at the end of the cruise, though I do happily hand out extra tips on higher last night for exceptional service, which is often. I consider the gratuities as part of the cost of my vacation. If I can't afford the tips I shouldn't be cruising at all.

 

Just my take!

[ceba]

Business is business. I can't imagine there's a company out there (that wants to make money), that doesn't look at their bottom line and works to see how they can cut costs and pay less taxes to make their profit.

Edited May 23, 2014 by ceba

[emmieepoo]

More Cruises wrote: I personally don't like this policy, I prefer my gratuities go to the people who actually provide me the service.

... We have Anytime dining so we don't generally give our waiters an additional tip. I feel like they give us average service at best. Maybe if we had Traditional Dining and had a chance to build a relationship with the wait staff I would feel differently.

 

 

I agree. And as another poster wrote, it is not right for the OP and others to be so judgmental of those who remove auto tips.

 

We remove the autotips because: 1) we object to having to pre-tip for service I may or may not receive - especially true if you use Anytime Dining; 2) we object to the manner in which Princess disburses the tips, especially with the new cross-fleet method; 3) we object to tipping people with whom I do not have any direct interaction, merely for doing their jobs.

 

Auto tips are a way for Princess to avoid paying their crew proper salaries. We refuse to participate in their scheme. I would be fine with paying a few more dollars per day (but not $11.50) for the crew to have a better salary and not be so reliant on tips.

 

We tip our cabin stewards very well - more than what the auto tip would be. We also tip everyone else who provides us service above and beyond what they "have to do". We also write extremely detailed recommendations on the post-cruise survey that goes directly to Princess, not to the ship's staff. One Deputy Cruise Director that we repeatedly lauded after sailing 4 cruises (just under 40 nights) with him was indeed promoted to Cruise Director last month.

 

Yes, the crew members work hard. But so do we all. They are not indentured slaves. They have a choice as to whether or not they wish to work in this industry. I recognize superior service through my tips, not just mere existence.

 

Well said!

[AZ Stan (FKA Stan in Chicago)]

I agree.

 

In good conscience I cannot and will not go on a cruise and allow the crew to take wonderful care of me and then punish them by not paying for that service because I want to make a political statement about the tipping culture. By cutting or lowering tips you're only hurting the crew members, not the cruise line.

 

While the crew members chose their jobs as others have noted, in most cases they couldn't find a job that would support their families as well. They make big sacrifices by not seeing their families for months at a time, but they do it to make their lives better.

 

FritzG, thanks for your message. I could not have said it better. Let me add that people who reduce their auto-tips, or in any way "stiff" the crew really tick me off. I can honestly say that almost everyone who has served me onboard has gone "above and beyond". Thanks to them, I'll continue to cruise, and enjoy their service.

 

Stan

[bhopal21]

FritzG, thanks for your message. I could not have said it better. Let me add that people who reduce their auto-tips, or in any way "stiff" the crew really tick me off. I can honestly say that almost everyone who has served me onboard has gone "above and beyond". Thanks to them, I'll continue to cruise, and enjoy their service.

 

Stan

 

I'm with Stan, Avatar and all.:D

 

Mike:)

[latebloomer56]

Thank you CRLess we didn't know about the ship class pooling. We have never stopped the auto tip as I have loved it since day one. Was always stressed that last night who did I forget was it enough etc. Now they are all set and I write down names for extra when needed so I get the correct spelling.

Also be sure if you do this put your cabin number in the corner of the envolope. This makes it easier for this person to keep the extra unless you removed the auto tip of course. Don't always leave extra but do when earned. Like our Golden trip to Hawaii never once saw our room steward from day one until the last day. Cabin was done twice a day and he was in other cabins when we went in or out. On a different note our TA the year before he was always there. My husband thinks it was because I was ill (nothing catchy). I had Chemo the day we left for Venice and it took several day to get settled. He was tipped extra, extra :). My husband is very fond of me if you take the time to check on me you are golden, so tipping extra is a matter of personal choice.

Auto tipping should not be allowed to be removed, again a matter of personal choice.

Edited May 24, 2014 by latebloomer56

[tothemall&beyond]

FritzG, thanks for your message. I could not have said it better. Let me add that people who reduce their auto-tips, or in any way "stiff" the crew really tick me off. I can honestly say that almost everyone who has served me onboard has gone "above and beyond". Thanks to them, I'll continue to cruise, and enjoy their service.

 

Stan

 

Actually, we discussed the auto-tips in great detail with several officers (with whom we have developed relationships), as well as Guest Services staff during our recent TA on the Royal, and it turns out that many of you are making incorrect assumptions and unfair accusations about how this works.

 

Here's how it actually works for the cabin stewards:

 

If you remove auto tips, and give your cabin steward a cash tip, he/she gets to keep it - all of it. They do not have to report it or turn it in.

 

If you keep your auto-tips on, the cabin steward shares a percentage of the ship's total auto-tips based upon the number of cabins that remain on auto-tip within their section.

 

So -- for example, let's say a steward has 10 cabins and 5 of them leave on the auto-tips, and 5 remove them.

 

Let's also say that the 5 cabins off of auto-tip all give a cash tip of $4 pp per day, based upon double occupancy, for a 10 day cruise. That means the steward would get $80 per cabin, or a total of $400 from the passengers who removed auto-tips.

The steward would then also get his/her share of the auto-tips for the other 5 cabins that stayed on auto-tip. And that amount would actually be less than what they get from those who removed them and tipped more than the amount allotted for stewards through the auto-tip program.

 

So, for those who were so erroneously judgmental of those of us who remove auto-tips, I actually give more in tips to those who serve me than those who participate in the auto-tips program.

[Wehwalt]

Auto tipping should not be allowed to be removed, again a matter of personal choice.

 

A personal choice, I gather, then, others should not have.

[Ethel5]

Actually, we discussed the auto-tips in great detail with several officers (with whom we have developed relationships), as well as Guest Services staff during our recent TA on the Royal, and it turns out that many of you are making incorrect assumptions and unfair accusations about how this works.

 

Here's how it actually works for the cabin stewards:

 

If you remove auto tips, and give your cabin steward a cash tip, he/she gets to keep it - all of it. They do not have to report it or turn it in.

 

If you keep your auto-tips on, the cabin steward shares a percentage of the ship's total auto-tips based upon the number of cabins that remain on auto-tip within their section.

 

So -- for example, let's say a steward has 10 cabins and 5 of them leave on the auto-tips, and 5 remove them.

 

Let's also say that the 5 cabins off of auto-tip all give a cash tip of $4 pp per day, based upon double occupancy, for a 10 day cruise. That means the steward would get $80 per cabin, or a total of $400 from the passengers who removed auto-tips.

The steward would then also get his/her share of the auto-tips for the other 5 cabins that stayed on auto-tip. And that amount would actually be less than what they get from those who removed them and tipped more than the amount allotted for stewards through the auto-tip program.

 

So, for those who were so erroneously judgmental of those of us who remove auto-tips, I actually give more in tips to those who serve me than those who participate in the auto-tips program.

 

I think your statement is erroneous.....If the auto tips are removed and you give a cash tip, they must turn it in. They can keep an extra tip only if the auto tip is left in place.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Ethel5

[Loonbeam]

Um, no.

 

While individual ships have some flexibility (and may choose to exercise it especially in Europe to deal with cultural issues), let's make this clear. Multiple people, including myself, have spoken to senior level folks at Princess corporate, and this is Princess policy (there are some days I REALLY wish I could get them to speak on the record, but they would lose their jobs):

 

If a cabin turns off or modifies the hotel charge, any cash tips given by occupants must be turned in and will be retained until the balance is made up. Exceptions may be made for specific itineraries where various conditions render this model inadequate, but for the vast majority of cruises, this will be the model.

 

Second, your point completely negates that there are other people who participate in the program beyond your steward. These include buffet staff, MDR support staff, housekeeping support staff, etc, who you do not meet and I sincerely doubt you tip directly unless you find your way below decks. So you have shortchanged all of them,

 

Third, assuming the cabin charge is still $12 per day per person, although not as straightforward as it was due to the new pool system, about 45% went to the steward under the old system, more than the $4 you now offer. So, shortchanged again, most likely.

 

Fourth, removal of the hotel charge is considered a negative mark against their performance in customer service. Yup, dinged again.

 

Finally, you make an assumption that everyone who removes the hotel charge tips manually. False assumption. Staff gets screwed over again.

 

Just to make it clear...

 

The hotel charge is optional. So if you don't want to pay it, don't. But people need to stop saying that they think they have a way to 'beat' the system to favor one employee, or that they are 'only tipping those people who serve them', or 'the staff gets more this way' That's disingenuous. The system in place is there for a reason, whether you like it or not. It's been verified, confirmed, and rehashed six ways to sunday. You are sailing an American cruise line that follows American tipping protocols and has a hotel charge that is used to compensate the entirety of the staff that makes your stay pleasant. If you disagree with it, complain to people who can do something about it, but don't screw over the staff. Or go all inclusive.

 

Actually, we discussed the auto-tips in great detail with several officers (with whom we have developed relationships), as well as Guest Services staff during our recent TA on the Royal, and it turns out that many of you are making incorrect assumptions and unfair accusations about how this works.

 

Here's how it actually works for the cabin stewards:

 

If you remove auto tips, and give your cabin steward a cash tip, he/she gets to keep it - all of it. They do not have to report it or turn it in.

 

If you keep your auto-tips on, the cabin steward shares a percentage of the ship's total auto-tips based upon the number of cabins that remain on auto-tip within their section.

 

So -- for example, let's say a steward has 10 cabins and 5 of them leave on the auto-tips, and 5 remove them.

 

Let's also say that the 5 cabins off of auto-tip all give a cash tip of $4 pp per day, based upon double occupancy, for a 10 day cruise. That means the steward would get $80 per cabin, or a total of $400 from the passengers who removed auto-tips.

The steward would then also get his/her share of the auto-tips for the other 5 cabins that stayed on auto-tip. And that amount would actually be less than what they get from those who removed them and tipped more than the amount allotted for stewards through the auto-tip program.

 

So, for those who were so erroneously judgmental of those of us who remove auto-tips, I actually give more in tips to those who serve me than those who participate in the auto-tips program.

[Wehwalt]

Frankly, this is why I (with one exception) just leave the autotip on and don't get into the whole envelope thing. This involves judgments and choices I do not care to make. The autotip is simple, easy, and usually comes out of my OBC. Yes, I have seen employees gunning for tips, the time I was in a suite, the staff at Sabatini's was never so friendly as the morning before disembarkation! But they were pros too.

 

I leave a "recommend a consummate host" card for my cabin steward, thanking him for taking good care of me, and I leave it the last morning for him to turn in, and sometimes turn one in for someone else. That and the autotip will have to do.

[bhopal21]

I think your statement is erroneous.....If the auto tips are removed and you give a cash tip, they must turn it in. They can keep an extra tip only if the auto tip is left in place.

 

I put my faith in Donna, the rest is heresay.:p

 

Mike:)

[Loonbeam]

As I said, believe me I wish I could quote directly the people I worked with when I was there. But they have a strict policy against unauthorized statements, especially by senior level persons...

 

I put my faith in Donna, the rest is heresay.:p

 

Mike:)

[bhopal21]

As I said, believe me I wish I could quote directly the people I worked with when I was there. But they have a strict policy against unauthorized statements, especially by senior level persons...

 

In that case then, keep it to yourself.

 

Undocumented information is all but useless.

 

Mike:)

[Colo Cruiser]

As I said, believe me I wish I could quote directly the people I worked with when I was there. But they have a strict policy against unauthorized statements, especially by senior level persons...

 

 

Thats why the couple that post here claiming to be Princess employees are probably not. :rolleyes:

[LMaxwell]

You are sailing an American cruise line that follows American tipping protocols and has a hotel charge that is used to compensate the entirety of the staff that makes your stay pleasant.

 

That's an odd hat to hang your hook on considering the ships are registered outside of the United States in order to avoid US labor and wage laws.

 

You then state that this company somehow follows a tipping protocol (not the word I'd use, but I get your point in using it)of the United States in order to under pay employees / have them disproportionately rely on discretionary tips to earn a salary.

 

We also know that service levels can and do vary. Sometimes they are able to be rectified by speaking to the staff member, sometimes you need to go higher up the chain (which is a waste of vacation time, by the way) and sometimes you just plain don't get good service. Not rude or vacation ruining, but just flat not good. Should that person be compensated equally to someone who provides the good service the cruise line advertises? That does not seem fair.

[Loonbeam]

I figure I've earned a little cred by being generally correct. But its why I am always careful to add disclaimers about where the information comes from so people can weight it accordingly.

 

 

In that case then, keep it to yourself.

 

Undocumented information is all but useless.

 

Mike:)