Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

[Wehwalt]

Thats why the couple that post here claiming to be Princess employees are probably not. :rolleyes:

 

It's like I say, most comments on any board that begin "As a [insert whatever will impress the other posters] ..." were most likely posted by Asa, the pathological liar!

 

I hastily note that is a general statement and I do not mean to impugn the integrity of anyone on this board.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Wehwalt

[Loonbeam]

The ships are registered as a flag of covenience to avoid regulations and taxes, but Princess (and CCL) is still an American operated company. I think of it like Ford, which is an American company but for various logistical reasons makes and designs cars in other country.

 

Because the vast majority of their ships depart from the US and the cast majority of Pax (slowly changing!) are US, Princess decided to go to a tip based wage system common in the hotel industry (not arguing the merits of the system, it is what it is) As with the restaurant industry its now pretty much embedded in the way things work, those few restaurants that have tried to change it have generally not been successful unless they offer something else to offset the higher price.

 

Which means that for now, regardless of our feelings of the system, this is the system in place, and we should operate within it. Now bear in mind, if you have overall bad service on a cruise, it is certainly valid to remove or adjust the hotel charge and let them know why. But based on my experience, actual poor service is rare. If you are having issues with one individual, and cannot resolve it by talking to their boss, a negative comment card will, under the current system, have more impact than adjusting the hotel charge, especially with the new pooling system. So that's how I deal with it.

 

 

The cruise lines have had some minor success with a wage based system in Australia, and I expect as more ships head to Asia, that will be the norm there. As the demographics shift, the focus may too, but that is some time down the road..

What that means is that regardless of

That's an odd hat to hang your hook on considering the ships are registered outside of the United States in order to avoid US labor and wage laws.

 

You then state that this company somehow follows a tipping protocol (not the word I'd use, but I get your point in using it)of the United States in order to under pay employees / have them disproportionately rely on discretionary tips to earn a salary.

 

We also know that service levels can and do vary. Sometimes they are able to be rectified by speaking to the staff member, sometimes you need to go higher up the chain (which is a waste of vacation time, by the way) and sometimes you just plain don't get good service. Not rude or vacation ruining, but just flat not good. Should that person be compensated equally to someone who provides the good service the cruise line advertises? That does not seem fair.

[chamima]

Actually, we discussed the auto-tips in great detail with several officers (with whom we have developed relationships), as well as Guest Services staff during our recent TA on the Royal, and it turns out that many of you are making incorrect assumptions and unfair accusations about how this works.

 

Here's how it actually works for the cabin stewards:

 

If you remove auto tips, and give your cabin steward a cash tip, he/she gets to keep it - all of it. They do not have to report it or turn it in.

 

If you keep your auto-tips on, the cabin steward shares a percentage of the ship's total auto-tips based upon the number of cabins that remain on auto-tip within their section.

 

So -- for example, let's say a steward has 10 cabins and 5 of them leave on the auto-tips, and 5 remove them.

 

Let's also say that the 5 cabins off of auto-tip all give a cash tip of $4 pp per day, based upon double occupancy, for a 10 day cruise. That means the steward would get $80 per cabin, or a total of $400 from the passengers who removed auto-tips.

The steward would then also get his/her share of the auto-tips for the other 5 cabins that stayed on auto-tip. And that amount would actually be less than what they get from those who removed them and tipped more than the amount allotted for stewards through the auto-tip program.

 

So, for those who were so erroneously judgmental of those of us who remove auto-tips, I actually give more in tips to those who serve me than those who participate in the auto-tips program.

 

 

If what you say is accurate then why does every person (except the cabin steward who already has our cabin number)that we give a cash tip to, ask us to put our cabin number on the envelope we give them at the end of the cruise?

I usually say "Don't worry, we've left the automatic gratuity on" but the response is always something like "yes, but I still need your cabin number."

If they got to keep the cash either way , why would they care about our cabin number on the last day of the cruise?

[Loonbeam]

It would not surprise me if some ship staff posted here, its a lot harder to identify them than it would be a senior exec. At that level, when you say Mr. X told me this, its usually very easy to figure out who X is.

 

Thats why the couple that post here claiming to be Princess employees are probably not. :rolleyes:

[chamima]

It would not surprise me if some ship staff posted here, its a lot harder to identify them than it would be a senior exec. At that level, when you say Mr. X told me this, its usually very easy to figure out who X is.

 

Elua (Dave and Leiloha (sp) - entertainers on the Hawaii and now Japanese routes) post on here.

[Love.II.Cruise]

I just saw this thread (after taking a much needed break from these boards - no offense to anyone here, I just wanted a break).

 

I saw on another thread about the room service charge on Regal of $3/person per order. On that thread people were saying that the auto-tips included gratuities to the staff that delivered the room service. Is that true? I didn't know that and we've always tipped the person who was making the delivery.

 

If it is true and we do tip, do the staff have to turn it in to be pooled? Sorry if this was already asked, but this thread is long and I haven't read it all.

[PrincessLuver]

The ships are registered as a flag of covenience to avoid regulations and taxes, but Princess (and CCL) is still an American operated company. I think of it like Ford, which is an American company but for various logistical reasons makes and designs cars in other country.

 

Because the vast majority of their ships depart from the US and the cast majority of Pax (slowly changing!) are US, Princess decided to go to a tip based wage system common in the hotel industry (not arguing the merits of the system, it is what it is) As with the restaurant industry its now pretty much embedded in the way things work, those few restaurants that have tried to change it have generally not been successful unless they offer something else to offset the higher price.

 

Which means that for now, regardless of our feelings of the system, this is the system in place, and we should operate within it. Now bear in mind, if you have overall bad service on a cruise, it is certainly valid to remove or adjust the hotel charge and let them know why. But based on my experience, actual poor service is rare. If you are having issues with one individual, and cannot resolve it by talking to their boss, a negative comment card will, under the current system, have more impact than adjusting the hotel charge, especially with the new pooling system. So that's how I deal with it.

 

 

The cruise lines have had some minor success with a wage based system in Australia, and I expect as more ships head to Asia, that will be the norm there. As the demographics shift, the focus may too, but that is some time down the road..

What that means is that regardless of

 

I am not familiar where in the American hotel or restaurant business that auto tipping is the standard. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember ever being in a US hotel that did auto-tipping.

 

I has been my experience that tipping is usually a social custom in the US that is a choice the customer makes not the company or employee.

 

Also, if the cruise lines were truly American companies they would be paying US minimum wages and subject to all of our other worker laws.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Norwegian Pride of America, which has to have an American crew because it is based in Hawaii since Hawaii has just raised it's minimum wage to $10.10 an hour which NCL will have to pay employees on that ship.

 

No matter what you call the "fees" that Princess passes on to their customers they are becoming no different then the airlines by unbundling services that use to be part of the initial price.

[PrincessLuver]

3. Auto gratuities are also a way to track performance of employees. If one employee is having tips removing more frequently it could suggest a problem. Gratuities vs. higher wages is rather like holding the carrot in front of the employee, as their performance is directly tied to what appears to be discretionary income.

 

I agree with everything you said except that Princess customers do not have to give a reason to have auto-tips stopped so there is no way it could be tracked to an employee's performance.

[LMaxwell]

The ships are registered as a flag of covenience to avoid regulations and taxes, but Princess (and CCL) is still an American operated company. I think of it like Ford, which is an American company but for various logistical reasons makes and designs cars in other country.

 

Because the vast majority of their ships depart from the US and the cast majority of Pax (slowly changing!) are US, Princess decided to go to a tip based wage system common in the hotel industry (not arguing the merits of the system, it is what it is) As with the restaurant industry its now pretty much embedded in the way things work, those few restaurants that have tried to change it have generally not been successful unless they offer something else to offset the higher price.

 

Which means that for now, regardless of our feelings of the system, this is the system in place, and we should operate within it. Now bear in mind, if you have overall bad service on a cruise, it is certainly valid to remove or adjust the hotel charge and let them know why. But based on my experience, actual poor service is rare. If you are having issues with one individual, and cannot resolve it by talking to their boss, a negative comment card will, under the current system, have more impact than adjusting the hotel charge, especially with the new pooling system. So that's how I deal with it.

 

 

The cruise lines have had some minor success with a wage based system in Australia, and I expect as more ships head to Asia, that will be the norm there. As the demographics shift, the focus may too, but that is some time down the road..

What that means is that regardless of

 

Ford design and build cars in other countries to suit the needs of customers as well as to meet local regulations. Ford of Britain, Ford of Germany, Ford of Australia, FoMoCo in the U.S. design, build, and sell some very different cars. Ford is a global company headquartered in the US. They are not a US company with simply various different local entities.

 

You even admit poor service is rare. This means it is not beyond the scope of reality and does happen. Sorry, as a paying guest if service is bad at an establishment I reduce my tip to the service staff. Why would I tip full amount and then just tell the owner I wasn't happy. That's not going to solve anything. A negative comment card means very little to me once I get off the ship and feel cheated for my money.

[caribill]

3. Auto gratuities are also a way to track performance of employees. If one employee is having tips removing more frequently it could suggest a problem.

 

The auto-tip is not directed at a specific employee, but a combination of employees that serve you.

 

If you remove the auto-tip, Princess has no way of knowing which employee did not provide good service.

 

It could have been your cabin steward, your headwaiter, your table waiter, your table assistant waiter, someone on the buffet waitstaff, etc.

[Loonbeam]

Hotels do not have an auto tip but still pay their employees based on the assumption that people will leave tips (housekeeping and restaurant staff).

 

In the service industry, most non-management positions have a tip calculated as part of the expected compensations (including but not limited to concierge, bell staff, wait staff, housekeeping, doormen, bartenders, etc.) - What I mean by that is when hired they are told they will be guaranteed X amount but they can reasonably expect an additional Y amount in tips.

 

While details vary, that's the American service standard. Cruise lines do it a different way than a hotel, but the underlying principle is the same, some staff compensation comes directly from the guest, and that is completely in line with the norm.

 

Oh, and BTW, at least 3 or 4 hotels in Vegas tried to add tips to their 'resort charge'. It hasn't stuck, yet, but it will eventually.

 

 

 

I am not familiar where in the American hotel or restaurant business that auto tipping is the standard. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember ever being in a US hotel that did auto-tipping.

 

I has been my experience that tipping is usually a social custom in the US that is a choice the customer makes not the company or employee.

 

Also, if the cruise lines were truly American companies they would be paying US minimum wages and subject to all of our other worker laws.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Norwegian Pride of America, which has to have an American crew because it is based in Hawaii since Hawaii has just raised it's minimum wage to $10.10 an hour which NCL will have to pay employees on that ship.

 

No matter what you call the "fees" that Princess passes on to their customers they are becoming no different then the airlines by unbundling services that use to be part of the initial price.

[Wehwalt]

The auto-tip is not directed at a specific employee, but a combination of employees that serve you.

 

If you remove the auto-tip, Princess has no way of knowing which employee did not provide good service.

 

It could have been your cabin steward, your headwaiter, your table waiter, your table assistant waiter, someone on the buffet waitstaff, etc.

 

They do give you a form to fill out if you want to stop it. On the Ruby, they pre-filled out that I wanted to make tips directly. I immediately crossed that out, not adding to my popularity I am sure. I hastily add that I let the autotip alone for the last two legs of the B2B2B, after I had changed cabins (as planned).

Edited May 25, 2014 by Wehwalt

[Cruisin' Chick]

Um, no.

 

While individual ships have some flexibility (and may choose to exercise it especially in Europe to deal with cultural issues), let's make this clear. Multiple people, including myself, have spoken to senior level folks at Princess corporate, and this is Princess policy (there are some days I REALLY wish I could get them to speak on the record, but they would lose their jobs):

 

If a cabin turns off or modifies the hotel charge, any cash tips given by occupants must be turned in and will be retained until the balance is made up. Exceptions may be made for specific itineraries where various conditions render this model inadequate, but for the vast majority of cruises, this will be the model.

 

Second, your point completely negates that there are other people who participate in the program beyond your steward. These include buffet staff, MDR support staff, housekeeping support staff, etc, who you do not meet and I sincerely doubt you tip directly unless you find your way below decks. So you have shortchanged all of them,

 

Third, assuming the cabin charge is still $12 per day per person, although not as straightforward as it was due to the new pool system, about 45% went to the steward under the old system, more than the $4 you now offer. So, shortchanged again, most likely.

 

Fourth, removal of the hotel charge is considered a negative mark against their performance in customer service. Yup, dinged again.

 

Finally, you make an assumption that everyone who removes the hotel charge tips manually. False assumption. Staff gets screwed over again.

 

Just to make it clear...

 

The hotel charge is optional. So if you don't want to pay it, don't. But people need to stop saying that they think they have a way to 'beat' the system to favor one employee, or that they are 'only tipping those people who serve them', or 'the staff gets more this way' That's disingenuous. The system in place is there for a reason, whether you like it or not. It's been verified, confirmed, and rehashed six ways to sunday. You are sailing an American cruise line that follows American tipping protocols and has a hotel charge that is used to compensate the entirety of the staff that makes your stay pleasant. If you disagree with it, complain to people who can do something about it, but don't screw over the staff. Or go all inclusive.

 

 

Somehow Donna's statement and this one seem to jibe in my mind. Leave the autotips on, tip extra if you want at the end of the cruise (at which point, the supervisor will check to make sure you hadn't removed the tip). If you're having a problem with the service, talk to the crew member's boss to resolve the issue asap. Let Princess know of exceptional service (that's one reason I try to keep a pen and small notepad with me in my purse while on board...I can keep track of names) using the "Consummate Host" cards and by filling out the email survey after you get home.

 

I'm pretty low maintenance so having someone else cook my meals and clean the bathroom instead of me makes me a happy camper.

[Cruisin' Chick]

I just saw this thread (after taking a much needed break from these boards - no offense to anyone here, I just wanted a break).

 

I saw on another thread about the room service charge on Regal of $3/person per order. On that thread people were saying that the auto-tips included gratuities to the staff that delivered the room service. Is that true? I didn't know that and we've always tipped the person who was making the delivery.

 

If it is true and we do tip, do the staff have to turn it in to be pooled? Sorry if this was already asked, but this thread is long and I haven't read it all.

 

Frpm what I understand (from the Princess website) is that services that might not be used by the majority of passengers (kids' programs, spa treatments, casino and room service) are not included in the tipping program. But you usually do sleep (and wash up) in your cabin at least once a day and aside from port days, you most likely will have three meals each day, whether you eat in the MDR, the pizzeria, the buffet, specialty restaurants, and perhaps a combination of those.

[tothemall&beyond]

If what you say is accurate then why does every person (except the cabin steward who already has our cabin number)that we give a cash tip to, ask us to put our cabin number on the envelope we give them at the end of the cruise?

I usually say "Don't worry, we've left the automatic gratuity on" but the response is always something like "yes, but I still need your cabin number."

If they got to keep the cash either way , why would they care about our cabin number on the last day of the cruise?

 

I've never had anyone ask for our cabin number, and I don't use envelopes. I just hand them the cash.

[Loonbeam]

I use the cards frequently on cruises. On a more general note, I also have business cards I got done for free from Vista Print that say "Thank You - your exceptional service is appreciated. Please feel free to give this to your manager. They are welcome to contact me for a compliment!" with an email. I use these all the time at restaurants, hotels, etc, typically handed out with the tip if applicable.

 

Somehow Donna's statement and this one seem to jibe in my mind. Leave the autotips on' date=' tip extra if you want at the end of the cruise (at which point, the supervisor will check to make sure you hadn't removed the tip). If you're having a problem with the service, talk to the crew member's boss to resolve the issue asap. Let Princess know of exceptional service (that's one reason I try to keep a pen and small notepad with me in my purse while on board...I can keep track of names) using the "Consummate Host" cards and by filling out the email survey after you get home.

 

I'm pretty low maintenance so having someone else cook my meals and clean the bathroom instead of me makes me a happy camper.[/quote']

[remydiva]

I use the cards frequently on cruises. On a more general note, I also have business cards I got done for free from Vista Print that say "Thank You - your exceptional service is appreciated. Please feel free to give this to your manager. They are welcome to contact me for a compliment!" with an email. I use these all the time at restaurants, hotels, etc, typically handed out with the tip if applicable.

 

....and have any managers ever contacted you?

 

My hubby asks to see the manager or " your supervisor" while we are there and tells the manager/ supervisor right then how good their employee is.

[Loonbeam]

Surprisingly yes. I'd say about 15 percent. Sometimes a manager is not available or its not feasible - flight attendants for example, or gate clerks at airports, etc, desk clerks late at night may be the only one on duty, limo or shuttle drivers...

 

I also send emails after the fact at times as well as call. Many options in the toolbox.

 

....and have any managers ever contacted you?

 

My hubby asks to see the manager or " your supervisor" while we are there and tells the manager/ supervisor right then how good their employee is.

[Zena,W.P.]

I have often wondered what the parents of infants in arms, or very young children do about tipping. I understand they must bring their own formula, diapers, baby food etc. The children are too young for the kids center. Yet they pay full fare. Aside from the room steward, I don't see that they have any interaction with the staff. Certainly not the dining room staff if they prepare and bring their own food and maybe eat in the Horizon court. I am WAAAAY past the age to deal with the issue myself, but curious.

[ShipFish]

I have often wondered what the parents of infants in arms, or very young children do about tipping. I understand they must bring their own formula, diapers, baby food etc. The children are too young for the kids center. Yet they pay full fare. Aside from the room steward, I don't see that they have any interaction with the staff. Certainly not the dining room staff if they prepare and bring their own food and maybe eat in the Horizon court. I am WAAAAY past the age to deal with the issue myself, but curious.

 

One option used is to just remove the auto-tips for the child (Parents kept theirs on) and then tip where the parents feel is necessary such as extra service being done for the child. This is what a couple I met on a cruise a while back was doing. Not certain how that would work for tips and the tip pool however.

[hockeygal54]

I use the cards frequently on cruises. On a more general note, I also have business cards I got done for free from Vista Print that say "Thank You - your exceptional service is appreciated. Please feel free to give this to your manager. They are welcome to contact me for a compliment!" with an email. I use these all the time at restaurants, hotels, etc, typically handed out with the tip if applicable.

 

That is an EXCELLANT idea! How does one go about getting those?

 

 

 

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[HappyTexanKnits]

I use the cards frequently on cruises. On a more general note, I also have business cards I got done for free from Vista Print that say "Thank You - your exceptional service is appreciated. Please feel free to give this to your manager. They are welcome to contact me for a compliment!" with an email. I use these all the time at restaurants, hotels, etc, typically handed out with the tip if applicable.

 

I absolutely love this idea! I'm one who will definitely talk to management (or email them) if service is bad...but I'm also the first to grab a manager if service was spectacular. I'd love giving these kinds of cards out.

 

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[Cruisin' Chick]

I have often wondered what the parents of infants in arms, or very young children do about tipping. I understand they must bring their own formula, diapers, baby food etc. The children are too young for the kids center. Yet they pay full fare. Aside from the room steward, I don't see that they have any interaction with the staff. Certainly not the dining room staff if they prepare and bring their own food and maybe eat in the Horizon court. I am WAAAAY past the age to deal with the issue myself, but curious.

 

We gave always kept our daughter's tip on. Back when she was a toddler in diapers on her first cruise and in pullups on her second, we certainly appreciated the cabin steward's attention in taking care of the used items (I had asked where to dispose of them but he assured me not to worry about them -- I did try to carefully roll em up to make it as easy as possible for the steward).

 

And the dining room staff had lots of interaction with her. They would take her sippy cup and fill with milk. They would be quick to provide saltines. They would entertain her (this was back on Carnival, long before auto-tips, but we always paid her share of tips for sure; often she would even be part of the MDR parades which she loved).

 

BTW, the kids' area staff aren't part of the tipping pool so this shouldn't have any bearing of reducing or removing tips for your kids, whether or not they take part.

 

In addition, we have always gotten her the third person rate on Carnival and Princess, even when on a holiday cruise. Always automatic, but this is something to check with your TA if not offered (I even will first check pricing for 2 and then for 3).

[AZ Stan (FKA Stan in Chicago)]

I'm with Stan, Avatar and all.:D

 

Mike:)

 

Mike, glad we agree, especially about the greyhounds. My Avatar is a pic of our dear departed Alibi, who raced in Wisconsin, and who was one of the greatest dogs, ever. Our current girl Emily is now 11 years old, and doing well.

 

Stan (sorry for the off-topic post)

[bhopal21]

My avatar is of our current Boudreaux.

 

He is our third rescue and they are all so special.

 

Great news on Emily.

 

Mike:)