Kosherica groups effect on dining?

Just learned that Kosherica groups are booked on a lot of HAL cruises, including our 8/25/08 on the Noordam. Has anyone had experience with cruises where they are aboard? What are the sizes of the groups and what, if any, effect does it have on the conventional dining since they have very special dietary requirements with their own chefs, etc.?

I am intersted in this as well - We are on Westerdam 12/21, which is Kosherica's Chanukah Cruise. Any information is appreciated.

Assuming you are not booked into the Kosher group, their dietary situation is not going to impact you. The group passengers are paying a premium for their experience.

If you are curious about the size of the group, why not call the organizer.

Here is a link to their web page:

http://www.kosherica.com/destinations/index.asp

Just learned that Kosherica groups are booked on a lot of HAL cruises, including our 8/25/08 on the Noordam. Has anyone had experience with cruises where they are aboard? What are the sizes of the groups and what, if any, effect does it have on the conventional dining since they have very special dietary requirements with their own chefs, etc.?

This is how they might impact your cruise...

If they are a small group, I'd bet you won't even know they are there. If they are a larger group, then that might make a difference. I'd probably contact them and see if they can give you an idea of how many cabins they think they are going to sell (if they know).

I remember reading a post where someone was on a HAL ship and there was a large group. It seems like this group took up all of what would have been AYWD and everyone else ended up in traditional. And this poster didn't want traditional.

We've been on cruises where there are groups. For the most part, you don't even know it, but since this group might have dietary requirements that might impact your choices of times, I'd see how many people they're expecting. If it's a few hundred, I'd probably not worry about this, but if it's more than that, I'd like to know so I could decide if I wanted to stay on that particular cruising.

Kosherica groups can be large, several hundred. Depending on the ship these numbers can effect your trip. They are lovely people who travel together and bring their culture with them. It is evident by their dress and they usually have their children. They are given their own dining area, a Rabbi to bless the food and rooms are secured for their meetings so it may adversely effect your use of these rooms.

Kosherica groups can be large, several hundred. Depending on the ship these numbers can effect your trip. They are lovely people who travel together and bring their culture with them. It is evident by their dress and they usually have their children. They are given their own dining area, a Rabbi to bless the food and rooms are secured for their meetings so it may adversely effect your use of these rooms.

If as you say that their groups can be large AND they are given their own area to dine where a Rabbi blesses their food -- it will certainly impact the rest of the passengers.

There are no dining rooms EXCEPT the main dining room that can handle large groups.

We have been on cruises when there were large groups -- and -- oh yes -- they do impact the cruise.

Too often lounges are closed.

Back in 2000 our mechanic took his last HAL cruise and has since become a devotee of another line. At the time, he and others contacted HAL with their displeasure and received absolutely no respnse, not even a letter.

His experience with a Kosherica-type group onboard impacted his enjoyment in many respects. Apparently, it was a large group and dining was not the only issue. Typically public rooms were off limits for prolonged periods and, on the Sabbath, even some elevators were reserved for exclusive use by the group who had been assigned elevator operators for the duration of the Sabbath.

Seeing that HAL's galley is not considered kosher it may be the same as anyone who requests kosher meals on HAL. The meals are pre-packaged on land and frozen and sent to the ship sealed.

I know people who keep kosher standards that just pick and choose their food from regular menus and avoid non-kosher items. That of course does not cover the pots the food is cooked in, or the table ware.

It just depends on what you're comfortable with.

I have a feeling that Kosherica handles all the food arrangements to the extent of bringing everything aboard with them. I can't imagine people spending large amounts of money on a HAL cruise to eat from paper plates and use plastic table ware. This is probably the main focus of the organization; to provide a family vacation while allowing people the cultural and kosher atmosphere.

GN

Back in 2000 our mechanic took his last HAL cruise and has since become a devotee of another line. At the time, he and others contacted HAL with their displeasure and received absolutely no respnse, not even a letter.

 

His experience with a Kosherica-type group onboard impacted his enjoyment in many respects. Apparently, it was a large group and dining was not the only issue. Typically public rooms were off limits for prolonged periods and, on the Sabbath, even some elevators were reserved for exclusive use by the group who had been assigned elevator operators for the duration of the Sabbath.

That is so sad.

I would be very distressed if I were not ablt to use the elevators -- I am no longer able to walk stairs.

HAL would hear from me on that one -- expecially since we always book Delux suites.

And there would be a RUMBLE on board!!

I called. The group on the OP's 8/25 sailing is small, as in less than 15-20 cabins.

That is so sad.

 

I would be very distressed if I were not ablt to use the elevators -- I am no longer able to walk stairs.

 

HAL would hear from me on that one -- expecially since we always book Delux suites.

 

And there would be a RUMBLE on board!!

Yes, it was very sad ... and HAL lost a large group of repeaters, friends not an organized group, partly because of their reduced onboard experience and also because HAL was so indifferent to their comments and concerns. These people are not tightwads, so HAL also lost a handsome revenue stream from these people.

As I recall his comments on the elevators ... it wasn't all elevators reserved for the group, but I believe it was at least one in each elevator bank off limits to everyone else for the duration of the Sabbath.

If HAL or any cruiseline is going to cater to such a large group in such a manner, a full charter should be mandatory for the group so as not to honk off those not part of the special interest group.

Fortunately, for the OP, hammybee has graciously checked and it would seem the size of this group likely will not impact your enjoyment or dining experience.

I don't understand the elevator issue. We have stayed in a resort in Eilat and on the Jewish Sabbath the elevators were programed to stop on every floor because an orthodox Jew cannot push the buttons. If HAL is providing an elevator operator on one elevator, why can you not use that one and simply tell the operator your floor?

That's what I was thinking.... just tell him the deck you are going to???

If it is only 15 or 20 cabins, you will hardly be aware they are aboard. That few cabins could well use The Hudson Room and never even go near the dining room. Assuming two to most cabins and maybe four in 5 or 6 cabins, the Hudson could accomodate that number for dining tables. In the days of Suite Dinner, we had many dinners in that and the Half Moon Room.

Back in 2000 our mechanic took his last HAL cruise and has since become a devotee of another line. At the time, he and others contacted HAL with their displeasure and received absolutely no respnse, not even a letter.

 

His experience with a Kosherica-type group onboard impacted his enjoyment in many respects. Apparently, it was a large group and dining was not the only issue. Typically public rooms were off limits for prolonged periods and, on the Sabbath, even some elevators were reserved for exclusive use by the group who had been assigned elevator operators for the duration of the Sabbath.

I can't imagine that you would be refused the use of the elevator. If someone is operating it and it stops at the floor you are waiting at, do you really think that if it's not full they will tell you you can't get on? I somewhat doubt this. What it means is that those are the only elevators that group can use since they will have someone operating it for them. I have seen this happen in some hospitals where they have certain elevators programmed to stop at every floor so the passengers don't have to push the buttons.

15-20 cabins won't be an issue at all, IMO. Have a great cruise. :)

On a regular cruise anyone requesting kosher food would receive it as prepackaged meals and served with paper and plastic. Participants on a Kosherica cruise pay a significant premium so they can eat a wide range of freshly prepared meals, with choices, just like all the other cruisers. Their meals are served on china plates, etc. They eat in the dining room just like all the other diners, though they would be seated in proximity to one another to prevent the mixing of dishes.

As for the elevators, the duffys are correct. It will either be programmed to stop automatically at each floor, or someone will literally be on there to push every button.

On my last cruise, I remember an activity was canceled because the room was being used for Saturday night mass. There was no rumble. It's a big ship. My friends usually cruise at Christmas time, but they don't complain that the Christmas music or decorations infringes upon them.

I hope the poster who suggested this group should only be allowed to cruise if they take the entire ship did not mean to imply that this particular group somehow needs to be segregated from the rest of the cruising community because of their different needs.

I hope you realize that the tone of this thread is a bit light on tolerance.

I hope you take the cruise and have a wonderful trip.

Craftymom,

Thanks for saying what needed to be said on this slippery slope.:)

I hope the poster who suggested this group should only be allowed to cruise if they take the entire ship did not mean to imply that this particular group somehow needs to be segregated from the rest of the cruising community because of their different needs.

 

I hope you realize that the tone of this thread is a bit light on tolerance.

I don't see any posts that talk about segregating anyone because of their needs, but rather I see discussions on how this group (if large) would impact the other cruisers. I personally would not want to be on any ship that has a large group...and I don't care who they are.

There have been posts about jazz musicians practicing their instruments in cabins (at all hours)...HAL renting out the Crow's Nest Lounge practically every day during one particular cruise...entire dining times taken by large groups...public rooms closed off for meetings...and the list goes on and on. And I don't care who they are, it would annoy me to no end if I couldn't use an elevator because one of the groups on board had it reserved for them (for whatever reason).

As an individual cruiser, I'd like to find a cruise that has the smallest groups on them so I can have access to the public spaces and have a shot at getting the dining time I want. When there's a large group on your cruise, everything changes, from the availability of public spaces, to dining time.

They may pay a premium for these extra things, but at the very least, I should be notified of this so I can make other plans. I know that won't happen, so the only way around this is to do look on the Internet and ask here. Many times someone knows what's going on.

Some people don't like when groups take over a ship. And it doesn't matter what group we're talking about, because when they start getting "special" services that cut into public spaces, then I think everyone else has the right to be unhappy. The trouble is, HAL doesn't tell you about this, you have to figure it out on your own.

This thread, nor the posts, IMO, is implying anything about a particular group, but rather what the impact will be with a large group on a sailing. And I guarantee you if I came up an elevator and told I wasn't able to use it because I was not part of a particular group, I'd be the one questioning what was going on, not the other way around. This isn't about religion...it's about having access to what you paid for...and not being shut out because a group comes along and gets priority because of their size.

I am an orthodox Jew who was on the Noordam's July 29, 2008 seven day Alaska cruise from Seattle. I will be part of the Kosherica group on the Prinsendam for the August 21, 2008 Kiel Canal and Scandanavia cruise.

Kosherica groups number anywhere from 25 to a maximum of 150. Kosherica participants eat in the dining room as a group during the late seating. Yes, we pay a hefty premium which goes to the bringing on to the ship of china, flatware and crystal, food that is cooked on board in a section of the kitchen that is kashered (rendered kosher) for the duration of the cruise, mashgichim (kosher supervisors) who watch over the preparation of the food (much of it cooked by the ship's non-Jewish staff) and a Rabbi. BTW, Rabbis do not bless food and food is either kosher or not by its very nature and cannot become otherwise through prayer.

Kosherica uses a small portion of each ship's kitchen network such that other guests are not affected. The use of public spaces such as the Half Moon Room is limited to 45 minutes of prayer in the morning and one half our at night (slightly longer on the Sabbath).

One elevator on the entire ship is programed to stop at every floor on the Sabbath as Sabbath observant Jews may neither operate an elevator on the Sabbath nor direct a non-Jew to operate it for them. Some Sabbath observant Kosherica guests do not subscribe to the leniency of such a "Sabbath elevator" and thus take the stairs.

It is because of the access to HAL achieved by Kosherica that I fell in love with cruising and HAL and became a devoted reader of this board.

I look forward to meeting some of you on the Prinsendam!

That's July 29, 2007.

How can you find if groups are going on cruises other than HAL? We have a couple booked and I'd like to know.

Thanks for the information Hmeslaw...very interesting!

I hope you and the group have a FANTASTIC cruise.

How can you find if groups are going on cruises other than HAL? We have a couple booked and I'd like to know.

There's a sticky thread at the top of the threads. The second post identifies a file with a list of groups that have been identified so far. The sticky thread is:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=563764

Thanks for your wonderfully informative response Hmeslaw! :D :D :D

I would not hesitate to travel with any group of that size. :) It becomes burdensome when the group is larger, as many public venues are closed, and options for other cruisers are limited. :cool: