Island Princess to call at Havana next year?

[sppunk]

Sorry for just now posting this, but I've been swamped.

 

We cruised Nov. 20-30 on the Island Princess, and in one of the guest lectures Dr. Tom Ryan (who spoke on many different topics relating to the Panama Canal and our ports of call) said matter-of-factly the Island Princess would be calling at Havana, Cuba, in 14 months.

 

Ryan has an extensive background dealing with Cuban-American relations, so this struck me as somewhat tangible. Is there any solid information or just conjecture from he that he didn't word too well?

[Toto2Kansas]

First I have heard of it.

[Colo Cruiser]

Not!

[PescadoAmarillo]

Sign me up. I'm not sure that there is a legal reason Princess ships don't stop now. I think it's more of an "excluding US citizens from the passenger base" thing. But it would be very possible for US citizens to be on a ship docking there, as along as no money was spent by them on excursions. If money was paid to Princess for an excursion in Cuba, I think that might follow the letter, if not the intent of the law forbidding us to visit Cuba.

 

(If it even is a law...does anyone know for sure? I am still trying to understand why I could travel to Eastern Germany and the USSR before the collapse of the Communist governments there, and to China more recently, and that was okey-dokey with my government, but Cuba is strictly off limits.)

[Colo Cruiser]

The issues with Cuba will not be solved in 14 months.

[sultan_sfo]

This is specific reply. I hope my reply will not start a political discussion. That is not my goal.

 

Enough "Voters" did not care whether you visited those countries. But older Cuban voters have had a lot of clout. The younger ones don't care as much.

 

...

(If it even is a law...does anyone know for sure? I am still trying to understand why I could travel to Eastern Germany and the USSR before the collapse of the Communist governments there, and to China more recently, and that was okey-dokey with my government, but Cuba is strictly off limits.)

[sackman]

Sign me up. I'm not sure that there is a legal reason Princess ships don't stop now. I think it's more of an "excluding US citizens from the passenger base" thing. But it would be very possible for US citizens to be on a ship docking there, as along as no money was spent by them on excursions. If money was paid to Princess for an excursion in Cuba, I think that might follow the letter, if not the intent of the law forbidding us to visit Cuba.

 

(If it even is a law...does anyone know for sure? I am still trying to understand why I could travel to Eastern Germany and the USSR before the collapse of the Communist governments there, and to China more recently, and that was okey-dokey with my government, but Cuba is strictly off limits.)

 

The reasons for the free travel into East Germany go all the way back to the end of WWII. Germany was divided into four zones of occupation, and the agreement between the four occupying powers called for unfettered access to the other areas by anybody from those countries. The US didn't have an embargo against the USSR or China, so there was no need to deny travel to those places. The reason for the restriction on travel to Cuba is to keep American dollars out of the country.

 

IMO, the policy should have been reversed about 40 years ago, but there hasn't been a President with the political will to do it in all that time. With Fidel soon to pass on to the great collective in the sky, and his brother Raul not too far behind, one can only hope that we're coming to the end of this archaic policy that has done nothing close to what it's original intent was to do.

[CtheW0rld]

US citizens are not legally allowed to vist cuba. it doesn't matter if they spend any money or not.

 

there are limited exceptions made for the media and cuban-americans.

[sppunk]

I thought Ryan was wrong with this - and I was not impressed by his lectures (though his Canal commentary was good). He had facts wrong often and had made claims that were skeptical at best.

 

I for one would in a heartbeat travel to Cuba, and hope the restrictions are lifted sooner rather than later, but personally do not see a U.S.-based cruiseline going anytime soon (or soon after restrictions are lifted) due to infrastructure issues.

[Roses2]

This article from April 2009 explains changes to the restrictions on US travel to Cuba. The President lifted long standing restrictions on travel only for those with relatives in Cuba.

 

The restrictions on travel of other US Citizens remain in effect.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/13/cuba.travel/index.html

[dforeigner]

US citizens are not legally allowed to vist cuba. it doesn't matter if they spend any money or not.

 

there are limited exceptions made for the media and cuban-americans.

 

Not true. First you do not have to be from Cuban decent to travel to Cuba if you are a US Citizen.

 

Special info for US citizensCommon belief holds that U.S. citizens and foreign residents are forbidden by law to travel to Cuba. This is not true. The applicable legislation is the Trading with the Enemy Act under which the restriction is not on travel but on the spending of money in Cuba. Of course one can practically equate the ban on spending money in Cuba to a travel ban because in normal circumstances a visitor must spend on accommodations, food and other necessities.

 

Exceptions to the ban on spending money in Cuba are allowed by licenses issued by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the Treasury Department.

 

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.shtml

[CtheW0rld]

Not true. First you do not have to be from Cuban decent to travel to Cuba if you are a US Citizen.

 

Special info for US citizensCommon belief holds that U.S. citizens and foreign residents are forbidden by law to travel to Cuba. This is not true. The applicable legislation is the Trading with the Enemy Act under which the restriction is not on travel but on the spending of money in Cuba. Of course one can practically equate the ban on spending money in Cuba to a travel ban because in normal circumstances a visitor must spend on accommodations, food and other necessities.

 

Exceptions to the ban on spending money in Cuba are allowed by licenses issued by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the Treasury Department.

 

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.shtml

 

wrong. and your link is crap, btw. check with the state department:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

 

in essence US citizens need a license which is not granted for tourism. since we are talking about cruising here that is what matters.

 

"ENTRY / EXIT REQUIREMENTS, TRAVEL TRANSACTION LIMITATIONS: The Cuban Assets Control Regulations are enforced by the U.S. Department of the Treasury and affect all U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever they are located, all people and organizations physically located in the United States, and all branches and subsidiaries of U.S. organizations throughout the world. The regulations require that persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction be licensed in order to engage in any travel-related transactions pursuant to travel to, from, and within Cuba. Transactions related to tourist travel are not licensable. This restriction includes tourist travel to Cuba from or through a third country such as Mexico or Canada. U.S. law enforcement authorities enforce these regulations at U.S. airports and pre-clearance facilities in third countries. Travelers who fail to comply with Department of the Treasury regulations could face civil penalties and criminal prosecution upon return to the United States."

[mikedw]

I may be wrong but I thought there was a US Law that stated that any ship that visited Cuba would not be permitted in US Waters for something like 6 or 12 months.

[BruceMuzz]

I may be wrong but I thought there was a US Law that stated that any ship that visited Cuba would not be permitted in US Waters for something like 6 or 12 months.

 

Mike,

You are correct. The US Government will not allow any ship that has called at a Cuban Port to enter US Waters for at least 6 months after the Cuba visit.

[dforeigner]

wrong. and your link is crap, btw. check with the state department:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

 

in essence US citizens need a license which is not granted for tourism. since we are talking about cruising here that is what matters.

 

"ENTRY / EXIT REQUIREMENTS, TRAVEL TRANSACTION LIMITATIONS: The Cuban Assets Control Regulations are enforced by the U.S. Department of the Treasury and affect all U.S. citizens and permanent residents wherever they are located, all people and organizations physically located in the United States, and all branches and subsidiaries of U.S. organizations throughout the world. The regulations require that persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction be licensed in order to engage in any travel-related transactions pursuant to travel to, from, and within Cuba. Transactions related to tourist travel are not licensable. This restriction includes tourist travel to Cuba from or through a third country such as Mexico or Canada. U.S. law enforcement authorities enforce these regulations at U.S. airports and pre-clearance facilities in third countries. Travelers who fail to comply with Department of the Treasury regulations could face civil penalties and criminal prosecution upon return to the United States."

 

I am very familiar with the law and who enforces it. You clearly wrote:

 

US citizens are not legally allowed to vist cuba. it doesn't matter if they spend any money or not.

 

there are limited exceptions made for the media and cuban-americans.

 

I just called you on it. With a special license US citizens can travel to Cuba. I never say or implied for tourism purposes.

 

By the way, my link works just fine.

[kkorman]

Technically you woul dbe spending money by docking there on port fees which would make it illegal.

[Coral]

Once Cuba is open to anyone from the US - I have no doubt ships will go. Until then - nope.

 

I have 2 friends who spent quite a bit of time there in the last 5-7 years or so - they were both on education visits for a semester which was tightened considerably while one of my friends was already there.

 

We have also had several people from our state go there periodically for agricultural trade. Supposedly they like Nebraska beans and other agricultural products from our state. And apparently we can do million dollar food contracts with them - go figure.

[dforeigner]

Technically you woul dbe spending money by docking there on port fees which would make it illegal.

 

As a tourist, yes, it would be illegal. Even non-Americans are not able to make any purchases using US dollars in Cuba. There are exchange banks that will change your money for CUC (Cuban convertible peso), which is the type of money that tourist use in Cuban. The CUP (regular Cuban peso) is the type of monetary system that the locals use.

[bhopal21]

I thought Ryan was wrong with this - and I was not impressed by his lectures (though his Canal commentary was good). He had facts wrong often and had made claims that were skeptical at best.

 

I for one would in a heartbeat travel to Cuba, and hope the restrictions are lifted sooner rather than later, but personally do not see a U.S.-based cruiseline going anytime soon (or soon after restrictions are lifted) due to infrastructure issues.

 

I agree and think it was very irresponsible for him to make such a statement without anything to support it.

 

I have friends who visit Cuba periodically and believe me if/when the ban is lifted Key West will become boomtown USA.;)

 

Mike:)

[graycottag]

I'd head there in an instant and can't wait for things to change. I have a good friend who spent about a month there a few years ago as part of a UN delegation, and know a friend of my parents who was there for an extended visit on a church related trip. Both have said that not only is the island truly stunning, the people were wonderful to Americans. It's like a snapshot back in time to where the islands were 50 years ago. I had a chance to travel there about 5 years ago via a Toronto based package - (most Americans who travel there now do so through Canada or Mexico), but couldn't match the tour schedule with mine...I could still kick myself.

[West Coast]

I had a chance to travel there about 5 years ago via a Toronto based package - (most Americans who travel there now do so through Canada or Mexico)

 

You can also get flights from neighbouring islands. And FYI, if you really want to go (via a thrid country) you just ask upon arrival that your passport not be stamped. Also, Canadian dollars are widely accepted on the open market and US dollars are widely traded on the black market.

[sunsetbeachgal]

We were on the same cruise as OP and heard the same lecture and were quite surprised as well, especially considering Dr. Ryans matter of factness about the statement. Very interesting!

[Colo Cruiser]

Americans flying to Cuba from another country does not let them off the hook as far as US law goes. :(

They can still be taken to task.

[Raamo]

Someday the laws will change - but I doubt in 14 months. Do non-American based cruise lines stop in Cuba even with American's on board?

[smeyer418]

Someday the laws will change - but I doubt in 14 months. Do non-American based cruise lines stop in Cuba even with American's on board?

 

 

Its illegal for a US national to travel to Cuba without a permit(called a license)-this includes merely being on the ship in Cuba waters-even if they don't get off. In fact there is a whole issue about US planes even overflying Cuba on their way to someplace else.

The fine starts in the thousands of dollars. Under George Bush the younger, they cracked down on both fining people and limiting the licenses. You use to be able to get a license pretty easily for an educational trip-which was really a sightseeing trip but Bush cut those out.

 

The penalty for the cruise line can be barring it from any US port for some time or in fact permanently. The cruise lines just don't take the chance.

 

 

 

Its also illegal for a US national any where in the world to possess anything made in Cuba- with some very limited exceptions.

 

You can read all these rules at

 

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.shtml

 

which explains the sanctions against Cuba.

 

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.pdf

this was updated as of September 2009.

 

My personal belief is this rules are foolish as others have stated above we were able to go to the Soviet Union and many other places as bad or even worse than Cuba(again my opinion).

These rules will eventually change. Congress is considering changing them now. If they change them now, it may be possible to go to Cuba merely as a tourist in 14 months. Castro did state that he was not looking for cruise passengers....he wants them to stay but you never know.