The Hated Smoking Question

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I am still a smoker, my partner is not.

I never smoke inside, and in this country we can not smoke inside any public building, Casinos included.

That does not bother me , I only smoke outside, if and when I want to.

As some readers may know , we alternate between HAL and Princess.

Just back from Diamond Princess cruise , and it was great.

Two outdoor and one indoor smoking areas.

....the big difference...

the outdoor tables had a little notice on them stating that this was a designated smoking area...

I was able to enjoy a cigarette at last without , people passing and preaching as they went by...

and if smoke annoyed them , they had the option of walking down the other side of the ship.

[iancal]

We don't like smoke in the indoor dining areas, the lounges, or the casino. I have no problem with people have a cigarette, cigar, or pipes on the verandah. As the OP said, the wind typically blows the smoke away. My view is that they have as much right as I do to enjoy their verandah. It is their own private space and I have no business intruding on it or trying to impose my preferences on them. notwithstanding that I may prefer that they do abstain. For those who think the smoke is bad...just try travelling in countries such as Turkey.

[DizzyDallasDi]

We don't like smoke in the indoor dining areas, the lounges, or the casino. I have no problem with people have a cigarette, cigar, or pipes on the verandah. As the OP said, the wind typically blows the smoke away. My view is that they have as much right as I do to enjoy their verandah. It is their own private space and I have no business intruding on it or trying to impose my preferences on them. notwithstanding that I may prefer that they do abstain. For those who think the smoke is bad...just try travelling in countries such as Turkey.

 

Thank you for your well-balanced response to this toxic topic. Those of us who smoke will generally seek out the "allowed" areas in the open areas on the ship and congregate there to enjoy our vice. However, if we're partaking in our cabin or balcony, we're not intending to cause irritation to our neighbors, we are simply following the rules.

 

The slight chance of encontering a boor who lights up in a non-designated smoking area can't be anticipated and is a possibility anywhere...on land or sea. People are who they are and some of them don't care about rules or socal mores. It is up to the staff to direct these offenders to the proper venue. Of course, if this doesn't happen, the offended pax should grab the bull by the horns and politely explain the rules.

 

We can all be happy cruisers if we're polite, follow the rules and respect our fellow passengers.

[Oceanwench]

Kinda funny, though, that in this thread it's the "newbie" who's getting bent out of shape that a perpetual topic was brought up again, and it's a couple of posters who have been around a while that are not objecting to it.

 

I noticed that!!!

Not the usual state of affairs, as far as my experience on various message boards! ;)

[sail7seas]

No way to win. ;)

 

Give 'em what they want and it's no good.

Don't give 'em what they want and it's no good. :rolleyes:

 

No one has to read any thread that doesn't interest them.

 

[usha]

Thanks for all of the experiences and opinions shared on this touchy subject. Unfortunately, the posts have pushed me over to booking Celebrity. We really want a balcony cabin as the scenery you are cruising by is the reason we want to take the cruise--however, if the upwind verandah has heavy smokers, we probably won't be out there much.

 

I can deal with the smoke in the casino and the other public places with smoking--just leave or never enter--but not my personal space I have paid a lot of money for.

Patricia, as much my husband & I enjoy just about everything about HAL, the smoking policy on HAL just allows for too much smoking in way too many places for us. After our last cruise on Westerdam, my husband asked me not to book us any more cruises on HAL until they adopt a better smoking policy. Celebrity has wonderful service & great food, along with its fantastic smoking policy.

I don't think you'd regret choosing Celebrity at all. :)

[m steve]

If you don't want smoking go on a ship that has lots of restrictions. Leave HAL and Princess alone. We don't need complaining passengers on board. You have choices just as we do. I don't smoke but really hate people who want everyone to behave for their personal benefit. There's lots of crybabies out there and I won't let them affect what my partner or I do. I also bring liquor onto the ship to enjoy in my cabin and i DON'T CARE IF THE DOCS SAY I SHOULDN'T. You live your life and we will live ours without your prejudices.

[Zappa Fan]

If you don't want smoking go on a ship that has lots of restrictions. Leave HAL and Princess alone. We don't need complaining passengers on board. You have choices just as we do. I don't smoke but really hate people who want everyone to behave for their personal benefit. There's lots of crybabies out there and I won't let them affect what my partner or I do. I also bring liquor onto the ship to enjoy in my cabin and i DON'T CARE IF THE DOCS SAY I SHOULDN'T. You live your life and we will live ours without your prejudices.

 

BRAVO, baby! You took the words right out of my mouth. :)

[Seamo]

Smoke ---- Zuiderdam ---- Dec 13-23 ----Panama ---- Just off ........................ and not likely to go again.................until.........if ...... smoking is confined or prohibited on ALL Balconies.(and other places too.)

 

We had a SA suite. The greatest pleasure was that the air conditioning DID NOT bring smoke from adjoining cabins into to our space. Other cruises , other ships , other cabins we always got smoke from our airconditioning unit. *** BUT with smoking neighbors on both sides plus up and down made the Balcony a real sad deal. Had to abandon it numerous times as the cigarette smoke became unbearable.....and the hallway as we approached our cabin was a comical ... "take a deep breath" .... and rush to open and get in before the gag of a 'old smokey down and out bar' stink would get to you. UGH ugh ugh ugh.

 

They gave us a form about non smoking decisions on cruising and we think this means the issue is coming to a head ... smoke is not good for you or anyone taking it in ..... and we will probably not cruise again until there is some options that address this issue. (we sailed -Paradise-as a no smoke-what a complete joy.) Go with the LEAST smoke... or don't go, and let management hear why you chose not to be abused with the ignorance of a smoking minority.

 

Seamo

[PatriciaF]

Wow--I think I said that I had been on HAL twice before in the 1990's and on Princess recently. Didn't have any issues with the areas that were smoking--just didn't stay long or avoided them altogether. But other posters have stated that the relatively liberal smoking policy on HAL has been problematic for them. I am trying to assess whether this will be an issue for us for an expensive 12 day South American cruise.

 

Do what you want--you too can die from the effects of smoking and/or drinking--I know several that have including very close relatives. But let me get information to make an informed decision beyond the stated information from the cruise line.

[cruz chic]

They gave us a form about non smoking decisions on cruising and we think this means the issue is coming to a head ...

They have been handing out that survey for a number of years. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

[RuthC]

I would hardly call HAL's smoking policy "liberal"; it's fairly restrictive, although not as restrictive as some other lines.

Smoking areas are limited to the private space of passenger cabins and verandas, and a very, very few public indoor spaces. Even most of the outdoor areas are non-smoking.

 

It's harder for a smoker to find a smoking section than it is for a non-smoker to find a smoke-free area.

[Seamo]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ruth:

"Smoking areas are limited to the private space of passenger cabins and verandas, and a very, very few public indoor spaces. Even most of the outdoor areas are non-smoking.

It's harder for a smoker to find a smoking section than it is for a non-smoker to find a smoke-free area."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

But it is easier for 'smoke' ... to .. find .. a non-smoke section than for a non-smoker to find a smoke free section..............true as true can be . ........... old bar smoke is so so so so out.

 

seamo (without smoke) p.s. i love you ruth but I do not think smoke is a health issue worthy of your sparkle.

 

Seamo

[donh1]

I would hardly call HAL's smoking policy "liberal"; it's fairly restrictive, although not as restrictive as some other lines.

Smoking areas are limited to the private space of passenger cabins and verandas, and a very, very few public indoor spaces. Even most of the outdoor areas are non-smoking.

 

It's harder for a smoker to find a smoking section than it is for a non-smoker to find a smoke-free area.

Smoke Free Area.... By your standards one would think my balcony on the Westerdam would be considered smoke free. We are non smokers. It certainly was not the case with the chain smokers next door. Never failed that we were driven back into our cabin because of the smoke. We have addressed the problem by switching to Celebrity. On our last two cruises with HAL smoking was an issue. I strongly believe it is only a matter of time before HAL joins the real world. Virginia as of December first went non smoking in their restaurants and who knows where else. When a tobacco state deals with the issue public pressure will seems to prevail.

[hartjanet]

Just off the Amerstam 21 Day Panama Cnal. Smokingg was allowed anywhere on any deck outside - Crow's Nest - Casino - and Sports Bar as wll as cabins and verandahs. It would be the only reason I would not use HAL. For every considerate smoker there were one or more who were not. People dropped out of dancing classes because of smoke in the Crow's Nest at 2 pm and we rarely went there for other purposes because of the smoke. I played the poker games and put up with it for tournaments (cabnm't smoke at the table, but machines are right alongside) but dropped out of cash games when it got bad. In short, smokers were in the vast minority yet they hold everyone hostage. Ironically, after completing the Susan B Komen walk I was in the store and a guy was buying a carton of cigarettes. The saleswoman said "Did you know that if you buy another case you will get a discount." HAL should rebuild a small bar area that is full self enclosed and make that the only place smokers can get their fixes without negatively impacting others. Next cruise I will pay more if I need to and take a less preferred itinerary rather than deal with the sore throats and smelly clothes aI get with Hal's too-soft smoking rules.

[sail7seas]

They have been handing out that survey for a number of years. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

 

 

They have been doing that survey for so long now that I consider it nothing more than a stall for time. They are putting off what they know they need to do and that is further restrict smoking.

 

Any useful information they wanted from that survey has long been accumulated. They're just 'faking it' now IMO

[Bakincakes]

We don't smoke and have NEVER found smoking an issue on HAL.

 

My Dh is more sensitive to smoke than I am but he hasn;t found smoking to be an issue on any cruise we have taken.

 

We have had balcony neighbors who smoke and they have always told us that if their smoke is an issue, to speak up. We have never had to do that and we have over 50 cruises under our belts.

 

I don't know how the ultra sensitive manage to survive. They must not live or travel in big cities. And they must be lucky enough not to get into an elevator with pax who douse themselves in aftershave and perfume.

 

People smoke and there are restricted areas where they can smoke. I've seen non-smokers go to one of those areas and then complain about the smoke.:rolleyes: I do believe that some non-smokers will just continue to complain until they get their way.

 

Wonder what they will complain about then?;)

[Seamo]

____________________________________________________________

"Wonder what they will complain about then?"

____________________________________________________________

 

Maybe something like this.......................

 

Smoking Issues

 

October 2008

 

While smoking poses a health threat to both men and women, women require less tobacco exposure than men to have a significant increased risk for colorectal cancer, according to new research presented at the 73rd Annual ACG Scientific Meeting in Orlando. In a separate analysis, researchers found smoking may increase the risk of pancreatic cancer precursor lesions, particularly in patients with a strong family history of the disease.

 

While research has demonstrated that smoking is associated with a two-fold risk for colorectal neoplasia, less is known about the exposure quantity needed. Joseph C. Anderson, M.D., of the University of Connecticut in Farmington and Zvi A. Alpern, M.D. of Stony Brook University in New York compared the quantity of tobacco exposure to increased colorectal cancer risk in men and women. The levels of tobacco exposure were measured by multiplying the packs of cigarettes smoked per day by the number of years smoked (“pack years.”)

 

Cigarette Smoking May Increase Risk of Pancreatic Cancer Precursor Lesions in At-Risk Patients

 

In a separate study conducted at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York, Dr. Emmy Ludwig and her colleagues examined tobacco exposure and the risk of pancreatic cancer precursor lesions.

 

Source: American College of Gastroenterology

 

http://www.gi.org/media/releases/2008am/ACG08SmokingLink.pdf

 

 

 

October 2008

 

Nicotine from even second-hand cigarette smoke may stimulate breast cancer tumorigenesis and progression by interacting with receptors in tissue to signal cell growth and migration, laboratory studies here suggested.

 

In malignant and breast epithelial cells, exposure to nicotine enhanced the activity of a tumor-promoting enzyme and stimulated the cells' mobility, Chang Yan Chen, M.D., Ph.D., of Harvard, and colleagues reported in the Oct. 15 issue of Cancer Research.

 

The studies also identified a cell division cycle gene that appears to play a key role in nicotine-mediated cell migration.

 

Moreover, the data suggest a possible mechanism by which second-hand smoking may lead to tumorigenesis

 

Guo J, et al "Nicotine promotes mammary tumor migration via a signaling cascade involving proein kinase C and cdc42" Cancer Res 2008; 68: 8473-8481.

 

Source: http://www.medpagetoday.com

 

 

 

June 2006 Surgeon General's Report on Second-hand Smoke

 

Surgeon General's report on secondhand smoke makes the following points:

 

The scientific evidence is indisputable that secondhand smoke causes premature death and serious diseases in both adults and children who do not smoke.

 

Secondhand smoke is a proven cause of lung cancer and heart disease in nonsmoking adults and of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), low birth weight, acute respiratory infections ear infections and asthma attacks in infants and children. It is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. each year.

 

There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

 

Exposure to secondhand smoke has substantial and immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system.

 

The only effective way to protect nonsmokers from secondhand smoke is to require smoke-free workplaces and public places.

 

Separating smokers from nonsmokers in the same air space, cleaning the air and ventilating buildings are not effective at eliminating exposure of nonsmokers to secondhand smoke.

 

Smoke-free policies and regulations do not have an adverse economic impact on the hospitality industry.

 

While we have made progress in reducing exposure to secondhand smoke, more than 126 million nonsmokers in the U.S. are still exposed to secondhand smoke in workplaces and homes.

 

Secondhand smoke contains more than 50 carcinogens.

 

The extent to which workplaces are covered by smoke-free policies varies among worker groups, across states, and by sociodemographic factors. Workplaces related to the entertainment and hospitality industries have notably high potential for secondhand smoke exposure.

 

It is time we ask smokers NOT to stand in front of our buildings where that secondhand smoke lingers and places the rest of us in danger.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

It is food for thought, don't you agree??

 

Seamo

[cruz chic]

I don't know how the ultra sensitive manage to survive. They must not live or travel in big cities. And they must be lucky enough not to get into an elevator with pax who douse themselves in aftershave and perfume.

Wow we made it all the way to post 67 before someone mentioned perfume! Must be a record. I don't know how many times I've gotten in a elevator and it reeked of smoke and I'm the only one in there. I do not smoke. Perfume is really a red herring that people love to pull out. I wonder how long it will be until someone mentions overweight people at the buffet:rolleyes:.

[cruz chic]

They have been doing that survey for so long now that I consider it nothing more than a stall for time. They are putting off what they know they need to do and that is further restrict smoking.

 

Any useful information they wanted from that survey has long been accumulated. They're just 'faking it' now IMO

I agree.....it's totally a stalling tactic.

[brucory]

I agree.....it's totally a stalling tactic.

 

And another waste of paper....

[usha]

Wow we made it all the way to post 67 before someone mentioned perfume! Must be a record.

LOL! That's exactly what I was thinking!:D

It's funny; when some folks realize they've run out of reasonable arguments, any tangent will do.:rolleyes:

[suse]

Wow we made it all the way to post 67 before someone mentioned perfume! Must be a record. I don't know how many times I've gotten in a elevator and it reeked of smoke and I'm the only one in there. I do not smoke. Perfume is really a red herring that people love to pull out. I wonder how long it will be until someone mentions overweight people at the buffet:rolleyes:.

But ok. This is the truth. We always have a verandah and I am always smelling smoke. So, it's very nice that some of you don't but I can smell it and I don't care for it.

I wonder when Holland America will get it? Like have some restricted areas, ok, but not in cabins or verandahs?

Ok, on to the overweight health issue..............I understand it's just as lethal. Not.

:)

[suse]

____________________________________________________________

"Wonder what they will complain about then?"

____________________________________________________________

 

Maybe something like this.......................

 

Smoking Issues

 

October 2008

 

While smoking poses a health threat to both men and women, women require less tobacco exposure than men to have a significant increased risk for colorectal cancer, according to new research presented at the 73rd Annual ACG Scientific Meeting in Orlando. In a separate analysis, researchers found smoking may increase the risk of pancreatic cancer precursor lesions, particularly in patients with a strong family history of the disease.

 

While research has demonstrated that smoking is associated with a two-fold risk for colorectal neoplasia, less is known about the exposure quantity needed. Joseph C. Anderson, M.D., of the University of Connecticut in Farmington and Zvi A. Alpern, M.D. of Stony Brook University in New York compared the quantity of tobacco exposure to increased colorectal cancer risk in men and women. The levels of tobacco exposure were measured by multiplying the packs of cigarettes smoked per day by the number of years smoked (“pack years.”)

 

Cigarette Smoking May Increase Risk of Pancreatic Cancer Precursor Lesions in At-Risk Patients

 

In a separate study conducted at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York, Dr. Emmy Ludwig and her colleagues examined tobacco exposure and the risk of pancreatic cancer precursor lesions.

 

Source: American College of Gastroenterology

 

http://www.gi.org/media/releases/2008am/ACG08SmokingLink.pdf

 

 

 

October 2008

 

Nicotine from even second-hand cigarette smoke may stimulate breast cancer tumorigenesis and progression by interacting with receptors in tissue to signal cell growth and migration, laboratory studies here suggested.

 

In malignant and breast epithelial cells, exposure to nicotine enhanced the activity of a tumor-promoting enzyme and stimulated the cells' mobility, Chang Yan Chen, M.D., Ph.D., of Harvard, and colleagues reported in the Oct. 15 issue of Cancer Research.

 

The studies also identified a cell division cycle gene that appears to play a key role in nicotine-mediated cell migration.

 

Moreover, the data suggest a possible mechanism by which second-hand smoking may lead to tumorigenesis

 

Guo J, et al "Nicotine promotes mammary tumor migration via a signaling cascade involving proein kinase C and cdc42" Cancer Res 2008; 68: 8473-8481.

 

Source: www.medpagetoday.com

 

 

 

June 2006 Surgeon General's Report on Second-hand Smoke

 

Surgeon General's report on secondhand smoke makes the following points:

 

The scientific evidence is indisputable that secondhand smoke causes premature death and serious diseases in both adults and children who do not smoke.

 

Secondhand smoke is a proven cause of lung cancer and heart disease in nonsmoking adults and of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), low birth weight, acute respiratory infections ear infections and asthma attacks in infants and children. It is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. each year.

 

There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

 

Exposure to secondhand smoke has substantial and immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system.

 

The only effective way to protect nonsmokers from secondhand smoke is to require smoke-free workplaces and public places.

 

Separating smokers from nonsmokers in the same air space, cleaning the air and ventilating buildings are not effective at eliminating exposure of nonsmokers to secondhand smoke.

 

Smoke-free policies and regulations do not have an adverse economic impact on the hospitality industry.

 

While we have made progress in reducing exposure to secondhand smoke, more than 126 million nonsmokers in the U.S. are still exposed to secondhand smoke in workplaces and homes.

 

Secondhand smoke contains more than 50 carcinogens.

 

The extent to which workplaces are covered by smoke-free policies varies among worker groups, across states, and by sociodemographic factors. Workplaces related to the entertainment and hospitality industries have notably high potential for secondhand smoke exposure.

 

It is time we ask smokers NOT to stand in front of our buildings where that secondhand smoke lingers and places the rest of us in danger.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

It is food for thought, don't you agree??

 

Seamo

agree. Thanks for your research.

[wingit]

I don't know how many times I've gotten in a elevator and it reeked of smoke and I'm the only one in there.

 

I can hardly imagine someone smoking in an elevator. I'm certainly not questioning that you've had this experience many times. I'd just never thought of an elevator as a place where people smoke. Live and learn I guess.