Trouble on Navigator

[akcruz]

First of all I've tried to stay away from this thread as it is not going anywhere good, but felt I had to say something here.

 

I am truly sorry that this happened to this kid and hope that he is doing better. My thoughts and prayers are for him and his family.

 

On the other hand it is unfortunate that those who are looking to find information on this accident have only found this message board, the reason why I feel there are so many 1st timers posting on here. If the cruise line or someone else was to make a statement on this maybe this would not have gotten so far. However, I would bet that they are keeping their mouths shut because they know there are so many out there that are looking to get what they can from them and they don't want to say the wrong thing.

 

I have a daughter in college and know what can happen when a group of kids get together especially in a setting such as this. The cruise lines are not the parent and these ships are not set up for frat parties. From one of the earlier posts it was stated that many times the DJ asked to the kids to stay away from the pool and various ledges, but they kept going back. This incident supposedly happened AFTER the official party was over so not many RCI staff were there. The staff are not chaperones, it is time for some of these kids to realize they need to take some personal responsibility for what they do.

 

Andre provided other examples of kids doing things very similar to this. I think it is time for parents to start teaching their kids right from wrong, not try to be their best friend which is what most parents do anymore, be the parent.

 

Poolaccident, you said this was 100% RCIs fault. I think you need to take a long hard look at the situation and realize the kid is mostly to blame. Crazy things happen when you drink. Unfortunately it isn't until people see things like this happen that they slow down on the booze.

 

ETA - When I saw the first thread on this Friday, my daughter was home for her spring break. I showed it her and her comment 'not suprised, that's how most of the kids at my school act, always drunk, they just don't get it'. Not that I raised my daughter perfectly, but I am fairly confident she knows right from wrong.

[susiecreamchs]

Steponboard...

 

Also, from another friend onboard the Mariner....Deck Patrol and Security has been beefed up and there were no disturbances on that ship this past week.

 

Mariner has 7 night cruises. The college kids don't take them because they're more expensive and they don't have enough time in their schedules (unless they run Sunday to Sunday.) That's why 5 night cruises during spring break are so bad. They're mostly college kids and that spells disaster. Trust me, they beefed up security on Navigator also.

[Aquahound]

Bottom line, it was utterly senseless and dangerous to let kids drink on a ledge over hanging a drained pool till 3:30 in the morning...

 

..and it isn't any of the kids' fault for drinking and hanging over a ledge until 3:30 am?

 

We were up on the ledges of platforms that had statues mounted in the middle of them at the shallow end of the pool.....Not ONCE were we told to get down. This was utter negligence, and I am shocked that this is the first incident.

 

You stand on a platform not meant to be stood on, and you blame the staff for not telling you to get down?

 

Before you bash this kid for doing something stupid or blame this on rowdy spring breakers sneaking on alcohol, realize that this situation could have been avoided and should have been handled in a much more appropriate manner by the people responsible – Royal Caribbean.

 

You're darn right it could have been avoided. It could have been handled in a much more appropriate manner by those who couldn't handle their alcohol.

 

I used to be in the business of taking injured persons off ships. I have deep sympathy for the injured and their familes.........but....

 

At some point, personal responsibility has to be recognized. You just gave several examples of how people were acting irresponsible and you blame no one other than the company hosting the event. That isn't right. You, yourself, even admitted to acting dumb....ie, standing on a platform not meant to be stood on. Sorry, dude, but had you tripped over that ankle-high railing, it would have been your fault.

 

Obviously, I do not know all the details of this case. From just the few details I have read, it does look as though the cruise line could be held liable in the same sense a bar could be held liable for the overindulgence and subsequent injury of a patron. But that does not mean the subject injured and all those around him don't hold much of the liability themselves (assuming the injured was acting in the same sense you admitted to). However, in this litigious society we live in, it's all about casting blame on those with the deep pockets. There's such a lack of integrity these days. :rolleyes:

 

These four sentences are exactly what I have a huge problem with. You were knowingly and intentionally on these platforms for hours, and because no one told you to get down, it's their fault? Is this what they are teaching you kids these days....to look to blame others for your own stupidity? That is downright sad! :mad:

 

Hi Gina!

 

This is spot on! I agree with you 100%.

[krisko]

WHAT??? Good gosh that is how rumors get started. That is a very harsh statement, where is your proof? Where you there?? :rolleyes::eek:

 

###

 

Ermm, I said 'possibly'. I'm not starting a rumor, I'm merely proposing that the lawyers will say the net was either installed improperly or that it should be able to support the weight of an adult male. And I'm not saying that should be the case, merely what will probably happen.

 

As far as the strength of the nets over pools, my opinion is that they should be strong enough to hold a young child. They don't know better, a 23yo man knows better than to jump on a netted empty pool. I think alcohol plays no role...RCI shouldn't have to reinforce their safety procedures because a grown man 'might' be drunk and not know better. Part of being a man is that we take responsibility for our actions at all times.

[davez423]

I am also from Sarasota and I'm friends with the young man that jumped from the hotel into the pool on seista key. He made a full recovery thank god. As for the young man on the navigator, I was on this ship as well and witnessed everything happen. It seemed as if the staff on the ship wasn't sure what to do at first. I was also dancing around this pool and me and friends thought it was pretty dangerous to have the pool drained and have drunk kids dancing around it especially cause the ship was rocking quite a bit that night as well as it being very windy. If anyone has an update on the young mans condition please post to this board. This was a very tramatic and life changing incident to witness. Makes you think about how precious life really is. I am a 24 year old male. Thoughts and prayers go out to the family;(

[Redheada]

I am surprised (or maybe not) at the many negative comments and opinions against the young man regarding this situation without all the facts. I am curious if this young man (not kid) had been dancing with other people around the pool and had accidently fallen in and perhaps wasnt drinking, or was pushed by another guest who was drinking, would you still feel it was his fault?

 

To me something sounds wrong about the set up to begin with and honestly I would assume a net or anything over a pool is there to prevent people from getting hurt who fall in for any reason. Since this wasnt the first night, clearly RCI knew of the set up and did nothing to change it.

 

I say reserve your judgments unless you are aware of all of the facts. I dont care how long you have been a member of CC or what you assume. You are not judge and jury. If this man did jump in as some have speculated, it sounds like he is going to pay the price for that bad decision. Regardless, I do think that if a pool is drained and can seriously hurt or kill anyone that falls in - that for sure should be changed.

 

And yes I do believe even on Spring Break cruises that RCI should assume some level of responsibilty for young adults that are drinking and gathering in public spaces. When they go anywhere in groups where there is drinking there always seems to be security, why not a cruise ship?

[steponboard]

 

 

 

RC hardly looks the other way on liquor smuggling. They seem to do everything that they can to prevent it and catch it. Odd statement from you.

 

.

Are you kidding? Do you read the smuggling posts about how creative people are and how they put booze in listerine bottles and RCL looks the other way. There are thousands of posts stating RCL catches few people so go ahead and smuggle. The real problem is there are no consequences for smuggling. If RCL took the bottles they did find and didn't return them it would halt a lot of smuggling. As long as RCL gives back the liquor bottles people try to smuggle on board why not try to beat the system, that is encouragement.

It's my opinion based soley on what I've read on these threads that RCL s at least 90% responcible and I am allowed my opinion.

[nrdsb4]

^^^^Personal responsibility for one's actions is only 10%?

[walkertalk]

Just got back from the Navigator of the Sea. I have been on 13 cruises, this was by far the worst! I don't mind people having a good time, these young adults were out of control.

 

In Cozumel, we left 1 1/2 hours late waiting for the incoherent to be carried on to the ship. Then we had to stop about 15 min out so another group could board. Heard that there was another group that got arrested (not verified).

 

Next day Belize, there was a young lady totally passed out at 2:30 in the afternoon and she was carried by 3 adults of the tender boat onto the ship with medics waiting. In the pharmacy there were lines of 20 something kids buying vicadin and other pain pills as well as ******?? Not sure how those would mix.

 

After leaving Belize, that evening the seas were a little rough with high winds, so as they do, they drained all of the pools and covered them all with a dark blue mesh pool cover. It was evident that the pools were empty. I heard that there was an employee walking by just as the 23 yr. old boy was about to dive into the pool. He started screaming for him to stop. He didn't and went head first into the empty pool. At 7:30 a.m. we were outside Cozumel with the med boat along side. Not sure what time it arrived. The reason they could not use the Helicopter was because of the high winds. Therefore we had to double back over to Cozumel.

 

That morning all the other pools were still covered and the pool in the Solarium where the incident occured was all blocked off with yellow caution tape.

 

I really would like to get some kind of update as to his condition. Some people were saying he had a broken neck and others stated they heard he was gone before he made it to Cozumel. I pray that is not so.

 

Be careful out there! Not sure what the answer is for Spring Breakers, however, I won't go on another Cruise in March! There has to be some way they can have fun without going crazy.

[317cruisegirl]

I was a passenger on Navigator when the pool accident happened. The boy did not slip and fall into the pool. He ran and jumped into it and landed on his head (into an empty pool). He obviously had been drinking, and I believe he thought he would bounce on the protective net the cruise line had placed on top of the empty pools (like a trampoline). However, the net did not hold up (it's not supposed to) and he fell through into the concrete pool. I think the cruise line handled the situation very well - there was no way the medical facility could have handled an injury of that degree. This accident, in my opinion, was not caused by negligence of RCCL - this was just poor judgement by an intoxicated passenger. I haven't heard anything about his condition and my heart goes out to his family.

[miasmama]

Not sure why everyone is piling on this OP.

 

The other thread that stated it was on the Freedom was being relayed 2nd hand. It sounds like in that post there was a miscommunication about the ship it occurred on. Not 2 similar accidents, one accident on one ship and 2 different tellings of the story, one with certain facts incorrect and one with certain facts not included ( deck 11 vs deck 12). If I were on a ship typing on my handheld device I wouldn't be putting in each and ever detail, but just the high points to get the story told to those that would be interested to hear. I am certainly less skeptical of a poster that is older and more impartial than the story coming from a dad relaying 2nd hand what he heard from his college age daughter (also a kid!) partying with a large group of friends on Spring Break. Not anything against the the Dad's story, I think there is just a misunderstanding.

 

And as a 40 year old that has started seeing just about anyone under the age of 25 as young, I would certainly call him a kid! Especially if he was part of a group of "college kids".

 

I personally was already trusting this version of the story vs the one that I read last night. Now a 3rd poster has arrived to verify the story and the OP's telling of it. Just because someone posts "first" doesn't mean that anyone else that posts the same thing is immediately a troll or making things up.

I was on Navigator and this story is 100% true! There is a lot more to the story, but the end result is still the same. My thoughts & prayers go out to him and his family.

[317cruisegirl]

If the pools hadn't been emptied and the caution nets placed over them then someone could just as easily fall into it and drown. I don't see how RCCL could be responsible for this young man's poor judgement. It is not the cruise staff's job to babysit 'adults'. We are all responsible for our own actions.

[Redheada]

I really dont think this issue relates to smuggling. I have seen many drunk people coming back from Mexican ports or sitting at the pool bar all day and none of which were under the age of 30 and none of which seem to be smuggling alcohol. If you want to get wasted there are plenty of opportunities without smuggling. As a matter of fact I have been on 10 cruises and the most drunk people I have ever seen have been on the 3 days to Mexico and none of which were college aged (or younger) they were all adults 30+, some are bachelor/bachelorette parties, other are just people that got too drunk. One 50+ woman on the Monarch at 4pm in the afternoon was passed out next to a statute near the elevators and quite possibly could have been dead and everyone was walking by as if nothing nor helping. I called and got her some assistance.

 

So dont assume every crazy drunk is college aged and dont assume they smuggled alcohol. Most people I know that smuggle just want to have their own personal drinks in their cabin and still spend plenty at bars.

[Desert Cruizers]

Walkertalk, this is truely a tragic incident that has occurred. We generally cruise in April, once in Oct.

317cruisegirl, yes we all need to take responsibility for our actions.

[Cruzaholic41]

It's my opinion based soley on what I've read on these threads that RCL s at least 90% responcible and I am allowed my opinion.

 

It's your opinion that the cruise line is 90% responsible when:

 

The boy did not slip and fall into the pool. He ran and jumped into it and landed on his head (into an empty pool).

[steponboard]

It's your opinion that the cruise line is 90% responsible when:

Yes it is. If he was intoxicated as indicated then he had no judgment. WHO in their right mind sells more drinks to an intoxicated young man dancing pool side at 3am? Revenue was probably why he was sold alcohol long after he should have been cut off. If he wasn't sold the alcohol then it was smuggled in and RCL did not catch it which is also not acceptable so either way RCL is in the wrong IMHO.

[Cruzaholic41]

Yes it is. If he was intoxicated as indicated then he had no judgment. WHO in their right mind sells more drinks to an intoxicated young man dancing pool side at 3am? Revenue was probably why he was sold alcohol long after he should have been cut off. If he wasn't sold the alcohol then it was smuggled in and RCL did not catch it which is also not acceptable so either way RCL is in the wrong IMHO.

 

So....where was his judgement in the process of getting so intoxicated?

 

And please do tell....I must have missed it....who said the cruise line sold him all that alcohol?

[andrzej5914]

Yes it is. If he was intoxicated as indicated then he had no judgment. WHO in their right mind sells more drinks to an intoxicated young man dancing pool side at 3am? Revenue was probably why he was sold alcohol long after he should have been cut off. If he wasn't sold the alcohol then it was smuggled in and RCL did not catch it which is also not acceptable so either way RCL is in the wrong IMHO.

 

how do you know that it wasn't bunch of pills, cocaine, heroin, pot, ecstasy or whatever? Pills are very easy to smuggle, especially in small quantities even through customs so what makes you think that a cruise line can catch every and all drugs/alcohol being smuggled on board. Border control admits to only intercepting about 20% of drugs being smuggled across the boarders and RC is suppose to catch 100%?

 

Get a reality grip!

[akcruz]

Yes it is. If he was intoxicated as indicated then he had no judgment. WHO in their right mind sells more drinks to an intoxicated young man dancing pool side at 3am? Revenue was probably why he was sold alcohol long after he should have been cut off. If he wasn't sold the alcohol then it was smuggled in and RCL did not catch it which is also not acceptable so either way RCL is in the wrong IMHO.

 

Do you have teens or college kids? Do you not realize all the ways these kids get alcohol? RCI very much steps up their scanning of luggage on the spring break cruises, yet these kids find many ways to get around it. Kids buy each other drinks as well, how do you know that anyone from RCI actually sold this kid drinks past when they should have?

 

Now I am not defending RCI, but have teens myself as I've stated before. My daughter is in college and does not drink. She has gone with her friends to various parties at school. The guys all ask her to get for them since she is not drinking and drinks for girls are 'free' while the guys have to pay. Kids this age not taught well will do unbelievable things to get alcohol.

 

Should RCI maybe have cleared the area when the DJ went off duty? If so, they would have been screaming that they could not be in a public part of the ship. Even if they did leave, where would have been the next place to go, what would have happened there.

 

These kids are old enough to take some responsibility for their actions. Many who witnessed this event have learned a hard lesson, at least I hope someone has learned from this unfortunate event.

[bluegirlum]

Am I the only one who thinks that RCCL should stop scheduling five day cruises during spring break time? The Navigator has a history of problems with drunk college kids during spring break. I was on the same cruise last year and it was terrible-drunk kids throwing up, fighting etc. They kicked several of them off the ship. I was on deck 10 and just loved the loud parties on the pool decks. Perhaps after this tragedy they'll reconsider.

 

Are you serious? Have you ever been on Spring Break anywhere else? Like Cancun, Acapulco, Daytona, Panama City? This is what occurs in a lot of places on Spring Break. Kids plan to get as drunk and crazy as they can because it's a week away from reality. I'm not saying it's right or wrong--it just is. You can take all the precautions you can think of, but things happen anywhere a large group of kids are gathered.

 

I would actually say that a RCI cruise is more tame than a lot of traditional spring breaks. My friends went to Acapulco and they activities that were created for them were ridiculous. Wet t-shirt contests were some of the tame ones!

 

This is a terrible accident that happened and thanks to the OP and others who confirmed it. I can't imagine what it was like on the ship. I'm not sure why people doubted the veracity of the story, but whatever.

 

Bottom line, I don't think anyone on this thread actually saw the event happen, we don't know if he jumped/thought the net would hold him, don't know if he was drunk, etc. We don't know anything other than the fact that this kid is probably in pretty bad shape and we should just hope he's ok.

 

ETA: I just saw the post with the first hand account. Sorry. I'm sorry that you had to see that. Thank you for sharing it with us. Those of us who weren't there have no business speculating or judging anything.

[drarill]

how do you know that it wasn't bunch of pills, cocaine, heroin, pot, ecstasy or whatever? Pills are very easy to smuggle, especially in small quantities even through customs so what makes you think that a cruise line can catch every and all drugs/alcohol being smuggled on board. Border control admits to only intercepting about 20% of drugs being smuggled across the boarders and RC is suppose to catch 100%?

 

Get a reality grip!

I have a question. Do you think that the medical staff took blood samples to check the alcohol levels and even if he was taking something else? And if they did, can they use this info on a lawsuit?

I have tried to stay away from this thread and I'm truly sorry for this young man and his family.

But, on the first thread (The Freedom thread), the OP said that the day before the accident, some springbreakers jumped into the pool when it was closed. As someone said before, if one of those kids drowned on the pool, they will be blaming RCCL for not closing the pools.

I was really shocked by the fact that none of the young persons that took the time to write on this thread accepted any responsability from the young man's part. Both of them blamed RCCL 100%, and this scares me. If they don't think that someone under the influence had any responsability, then, they will not learn any lesson from this tragedy.

I don't know if this young man was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, but if he was, he can only blame himself.

[andrzej5914]

I have a question. Do you think that the medical staff took blood samples to check the alcohol levels and even if he was taking something else? And if they did, can they use this info on a lawsuit?

I have tried to stay away from this thread and I'm truly sorry for this young man and his family.

But, on the first thread (The Freedom thread), the OP said that the day before the accident, some springbreakers jumped into the pool when it was closed. As someone said before, if one of those kids drowned on the pool, they will be blaming RCCL for not closing the pools.

I was really shocked by the fact that none of the young persons that took the time to write on this thread accepted any responsability from the young man's part. Both of them blamed RCCL 100%, and this scares me. If they don't think that someone under the influence had any responsability, then, they will not learn any lesson from this tragedy.

I don't know if this young man was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, but if he was, he can only blame himself.

 

Neither do I, but to blame RC without knowing all the facts, as in they should have 100% success in grabbing any smuggled alcohol or drugs is nothing short of ridiculous. The poster that said it was RC fault due to their negligent interception program is living in some fantasy world.

 

As to your first question. I would assume the hospital staff in Cozumel took blood samples. Isn't that a required procedure after any accident?

[bluegirlum]

I was really shocked by the fact that none of the young persons that took the time to write on this thread accepted any responsability from the young man's part. Both of them blamed RCCL 100%, and this scares me. If they don't think that someone under the influence had any responsability, then, they will not learn any lesson from this tragedy.

I don't know if this young man was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, but if he was, he can only blame himself.

 

Would he not be to "blame" if he was totally sober and just thought it would be fun to jump on the net?

 

We don't know what, if anything, was in his system. He could've been roofied for all we know. Who do you blame then?

 

Bottom line is, we all need to be responsible for ourselves, whatever the situation. I did a lot of stupid things as a college student, but always took responsibility for them. I didn't need someone to tell me that dancing on the pool ledge was stupid--I figured that out on my own. College kids think they're invincible. Instead of figuring out blame, the best thing is to use this as a lesson to just be careful.

[Rosieandfrank]

I know the young man; he lives in my community and went to school with my DD from pre-school through high school. He is someone of whom we are proud, a good kid. He is indeed a student at Duke and is headed to med school in the fall. He never gave his parents or anyone else any trouble and is a model for his younger siblings.

 

It is not relevant to anyone on this site whether alcohol or horseplay ws involved. It is unnecessary to speculate on personal responsibility or whether the cruiseline is to blame.

 

He is currently in a hospital in Miami, where he was flown and where his parents met him. He is in a coma, with a closed-head brain injury but no spinal injury. His prognosis is still unclear but hopeful.

 

Please stop speculating, and just pray for him and his family. Then hug your own children and tell them you love them.

[Cruisinfrombmore]

I know the young man; he lives in my community and went to school with my DD from pre-school through high school. He is someone of whom we are proud, a good kid. He is indeed a student at Duke and is headed to med school in the fall. He never gave his parents or anyone else any trouble and is a model for his younger siblings.

 

It is not relevant to anyone on this site whether alcohol or horseplay ws involved. It is unnecessary to speculate on personal responsibility or whether the cruiseline is to blame.

 

He is currently in a hospital in Miami, where he was flown and where his parents met him. He is in a coma, with a closed-head brain injury but no spinal injury. His prognosis is still unclear but hopeful.

 

Please stop speculating, and just pray for him and his family. Then hug your own children and tell them you love them.

 

 

THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE! Many of that were on that cruise have been praying for him and wondering about his status. If you don't mind, please keep us posted! I wish him a full recovery!