What Would Ms. Manners Say?

[Down-Unders]

To watch my weight and not be tempted by desserts I excuse myself from the dinner table after the main course.

What would Ms Manners say?

 

Dennis

Jacksonville, Fl

 

387 days at sea

33 cruises

11 cruise lines

T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific

 

Booked

21 day TA HAL Prinsondam May 2010

12 day TA Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

 

 

 

 

Friend Ms manners is dead and gone, hopefully to heaven. We are just off the Zaandam and it appears to us anything goes, don't worry do your own thing everyone else does!

 

 

 

:):):):):)

[room010]

As a diabetic most desserts are off the menu for me anyway. Luckily I don't have a sweet tooth so I don't miss them but in this situation I would probably ask for some fresh fruit/cheese/coffee and stay until my table mates had finished their meal. For me it's about the company and conversation, not the food. However, if you really don't trust yourself to keep away from the tempting desserts then honesty is the best policy - just tell everyone you have to excuse yourself and why. I bet there's a couple of other people at the table who should probably do likewise! Just make sure they don't catch you in the buffet later with a large bowl of icecream!!!!

[AFuncruiser]

I hope you enjoy your trip. And don't worry too much about your table mates. We all think differently and as this thread shows, you can't please all of the people all of the time, so why not choose to please the person you spend the most time with. And that would be ..... yourself. Enjoy! :)

 

Than reminds me of a quote;

 

"Always take care of yourself because those that matter don't mind, and those that mind don't matter! "

Dennis

jacksonville, Fl

387 days at sea

33 cruises

11 cruise lines

T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific

Booked

21 day TA HAL Prinsondam May 2010

12 day TA Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

[iancal]

AFuncruiser is absolutely correct. A lot of fuss about nothing. If you you want to leave the table early the do so. It is your vacacation. I would not spend a minute being concerned about others, whose opinion is really of no consequence to you, think about you leaving the table prior to dessert. Just get up, excuse yourself, and go on your way.

[fann1sh]

HAL has always been my favourite line because almost all cruisers who choose HAL ships have been concerned about civility, and ask questions like this.

 

"It's my vacation, I paid for it, and I'll do what I want" is becoming a more common attitude. Let's acknowledge it for what it is: selfishness, and rudeness.

 

FYI: Miss Manners aka Judith Martin is alive and well. So it etiquette. To quote Ms. Martin (Wikipedia):

 

"You can deny all you want that there is etiquette, and a lot of people do in everyday life. But if you behave in a way that offends the people you're trying to deal with, they will stop dealing with you...There are plenty of people who say, 'We don't care about etiquette, but we can't stand the way so-and-so behaves, and we don't want him around!' Etiquette doesn't have the great sanctions that the law has. But the main sanction we do have is in not dealing with these people and isolating them because their behavior is unbearable."

[photomikey]

Indeed, she is alive and well. I've confused Ms. Manners with Emily Post. Certainly a social fauxpaux.

 

"It's my vacation, I paid for it, and I'll do what I want" is becoming a more common attitude. Let's acknowledge it for what it is: selfishness, and rudeness.

Selfish, indeed, but I don't understand how enjoying yourself is rude.

 

If you turn that around, what Ms. Manners (and a vast minority of posters on this board) is suggesting is that it is their vacation, you paid for it, and you'll do what they want. That seems exceedingly selfish, and certainly rude.

[iancal]

I am not suggesting that anyone be rude or selfish. Just finish you meal, and prior to dessert say excuse me, and leave. What else is there to say or worry about. I think making up some false statement such as my shoes are tight or my feet are sore etc. is far more disrespectful to your table mates. Why would you lie to them? And if you feel the need to tell them why then just be straightforward about it.

[Davidson Duo]

OK. For those who really do want to know what Miss Manners has to say about this - I checked with her!

 

This is her answer -

In the United States, the proper etiquette for this situation is - Always ask for permission from the host and excuse yourself if you need to leave the table. You should place your napkin on your seat if you intend to return. If not, your napkin should be placed on the table. It is considered common courtesy for all gentlemen at the table to stand when a lady arrives or leaves the table.

 

I thought it an interesting enough topic to actually find out instead of us all speculating on what WE thought appropriate. She also says that you do not need to go into depth about your reason for needing to leave, but never lie about it.

 

She is indeed a master when it comes to the proper way to not insult anyone - the table mates or the person who needs to leave. Well done Miss Manners! :)

 

 

[peaches from georgia]

OK. For those who really do want to know what Miss Manners has to say about this - I checked with her!

 

This is her answer -

In the United States, the proper etiquette for this situation is - Always ask for permission from the host and excuse yourself if you need to leave the table. You should place your napkin on your seat if you intend to return. If not, your napkin should be placed on the table. It is considered common courtesy for all gentlemen at the table to stand when a lady arrives or leaves the table.

 

I thought it an interesting enough topic to actually find out instead of us all speculating on what WE thought appropriate. She also says that you do not need to go into depth about your reason for needing to leave, but never lie about it.

 

She is indeed a master when it comes to the proper way to not insult anyone - the table mates or the person who needs to leave. Well done Miss Manners! :)

 

 

Yes, this is her advice on how to politely leave a table. However, it does not answer the question of whether it is polite to leave a social group, that you have voluntarily joined, early and before it disbands on each and every occasion that it gets together. That can lead the group to believe that you are sorry to be there with them. Very different than a necessary visit to the rest room or other need to leave the table on rare occasions.

[Copper10-8]

There's nothing wrong with leaving your assigned dinner table prior to dessert, coffee/tea/prune juice being served. As has been suggested here, advise your tablemates that you won't be staying for the dessert, etc., gave them a reason if you like or not if you don't like, and go do what you have to do.

Now if your table is being "hosted" by a ships' official, that changes the story and I would wait until said host is ready to depart. However, when it's you and your tablemates for the week, no one is hosting the table. Just my two Euros:cool:

[cruisemom42]

I have read a definition of good manners in several places that goes something along the lines of "good manners is there to ease social situations so that no one is uncomfortable and everyone knows what to expect." I have always liked that definition.

 

People on this thread seem to imply that either one party (the one wishing to leave) or the other (wishing to stay) must be uncomfortable. I don't think that is the case at all.

 

I believe that if the cruiser gives a simple explanation (in a lighthearted, friendly way) on the first evening, then all parties will know what to expect and neither will be uncomfortable. If one of the other parties is not happy about the arrangement, I have always found it is possible to change or relocate to another table.

[CtheW0rld]

Yes, this is her advice on how to politely leave a table. However, it does not answer the question of whether it is polite to leave a social group, that you have voluntarily joined, early and before it disbands on each and every occasion that it gets together. That can lead the group to believe that you are sorry to be there with them. Very different than a necessary visit to the rest room or other need to leave the table on rare occasions.

 

the answer was perfectly clear. try reading it again:

 

In the United States the proper etiquette for this situation is - Always ask for permission from the host and excuse yourself if you need to leave the table.

since there is no host, normally, (unless someone is paying for my trip), you only have to ask yourself. simple.

[shoghig]

we just returned from a 26 day cruise, we were eight passengers at dinner time, quite often I ordered the sugar free ice cream and a had green tea, while my husband ordered dessert, some evenings I did not feel like having anything and did not even look at the dessert menu. There is nothing rude about eating or not, the choice is yours only. what would you have done if you were diabetic?

[Davidson Duo]

Yes, this is her advice on how to politely leave a table. However, it does not answer the question of whether it is polite to leave a social group, that you have voluntarily joined, early and before it disbands on each and every occasion that it gets together. That can lead the group to believe that you are sorry to be there with them. Very different than a necessary visit to the rest room or other need to leave the table on rare occasions.

 

I did not post her whole response or my question to her, but I clearly stated the full situation in my request for her advice and this was her response. As I also stated, she also said that you do not need to go into depth about your reason for needing to leave, but never lie about it.

 

As I clearly asked the question about this specific situation when requesting her advise, I accept her response and feel the original question asked has now been answered. What would Miss Manners say - and she has spoken. Happy cruising all. :)

[hrhdhd]

When I'm not actually eating dinner with Ms Manners, I try not to worry too much about what she'd think. Turns out she's been dead for some time now.

 

Miss Manners, a.k.a. Judith Martin, is alive and well with a weekly column in the Washington Post. Her writing is some of the best I've read--columns and books. :)

 

Whoops--missed the corrections by a couple others. I am just such a fan of hers that I didn't want her to have an early demise!

[jcrandle]

When I'm not actually eating dinner with Ms Manners, I try not to worry too much about what she'd think. Turns out she's been dead for some time now.

 

Were it me trying to avoid dessert, I'd order coffee - "no dessert, I'm stuffed". If it were difficult for me to watch others eating dessert, I'd suddenly find my shoes uncomfortable, and retire to my cabin to change them.

 

Rumors of her death are greatly exaggerated. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Martin

[Copper10-8]

Miss Manners, a.k.a. Judith Martin, is alive and well with a weekly column in the Washington Post. Her writing is some of the best I've read--columns and books. :)

 

Whoops--missed the corrections by a couple others. I am just such a fan of hers that I didn't want her to have an early demise!

 

Absolutely correct, alive and kicking (not the bucket)

Having said that, with all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment, it is worth reflecting on the death of a very important person which almost went unnoticed last week. Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey," died peacefully at age 93.

 

The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin.

They put his left leg in, and that's when all the trouble started.....

[Cruising-along]

Absolutely correct, alive and kicking (not the bucket)

 

Having said that, with all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment, it is worth reflecting on the death of a very important person which almost went unnoticed last week. Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey," died peacefully at age 93.

 

The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin.

 

They put his left leg in, and that's when all the trouble started.....

 

:D:D I always liked this one Copper :D:D

[Shelbyjane56]

she would say have a good time, just dont stuff yourself..moderation is the key!!

[photomikey]

In the United States, the proper etiquette for this situation is - Always ask for permission from the host and excuse yourself if you need to leave the table. You should place your napkin on your seat if you intend to return. If not, your napkin should be placed on the table. It is considered common courtesy for all gentlemen at the table to stand when a lady arrives or leaves the table.

 

I agree with this advice.

 

If you find yourself at a table where all the gentlemen stand each time a lady arrives at or departs the table, you should probably ask permission to be excused.

 

However, if this antiquated practice is not being followed at the table on your cruise (as has been the case on every table I've ever sat at - sea or land), it seems you would be able to excuse yourself.

 

Thank you to the three posters who pointed out that Miss Manners is alive - after I conceded the fact that Miss Manners is alive. One of the great thing about Cruise Critic is that even after you concede you were wrong, folks will come along and point out you were wrong.

[AFuncruiser]

I have read a definition of good manners in several places that goes something along the lines of "good manners is there to ease social situations so that no one is uncomfortable and everyone knows what to expect." I have always liked that definition.

People on this thread seem to imply that either one party (the one wishing to leave) or the other (wishing to stay) must be uncomfortable. I don't think that is the case at all.

 

Right on...I intend to light heartly mention this thread to the table and have fun with what is obviously an interesting question.. and than I will leave..:)

 

Dennis

Jacksonville, Fl

 

 

387 days at sea

33 cruises

11 cruise lines

T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific

Booked

21 day TA HAL Prinsondam May 2010

12 day TA Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

[Boytjie]

Thank you to the three posters who pointed out that Miss Manners is alive - after I conceded the fact that Miss Manners is alive. One of the great thing about Cruise Critic is that even after you concede you were wrong, folks will come along and point out you were wrong.

 

It could be that people respond to a message when they read it and do not wait till thay have read all the posts followng it, such as your post conceding a mistake. ;)

[kyriecat]

Afuncruiser brings up an interesting point. I enjoy dining with others during fixed seating. For me, dinner is a social occasion and not just about eating. While I always ask for a large table, we've occasionally been placed at a table for 4 or 6. If on the first night, you find out that your dining companions plan to skip 1/3 of every meal because they do not eat dessert nor do they want to socialize, would it be considered rude to request being moved to a different table? Most meals I don't eat dessert but prefer to stay at the table and chat with my companions. Using others' logic of "it's my vacation, too," I want to be seated with people who enjoy my company and not those who want to dash off every night to avoid dessert.

 

One person posted that she would be happy if seated at a small table if the other couple left early because that would give her time to talk privately with her spouse. I guess I have a different opinion. My husband and I prefer to eat breakfast and lunch by ourselves so dinner is our "other people" social time. If I want to speak privately with my husband, there is time for that either before of after dinner.

[CtheW0rld]

If on the first night, you find out that your dining companions plan to skip 1/3 of every meal because they do not eat dessert nor do they want to socialize, would it be considered rude to request being moved to a different table?

 

change away... it is your vacation.

 

i've only had to change table once in all my cruises. six of us 'escaped' from a table of 8, then had a great time the rtest of the cruise. none of them even minded if i skipped dessert in favor of a smoke.

[serendipity1499]

There's nothing wrong with leaving your assigned dinner table prior to dessert, coffee/tea/prune juice being served. As has been suggested here, advise your tablemates that you won't be staying for the dessert, etc., gave them a reason if you like or not if you don't like, and go do what you have to do.

 

Now if your table is being "hosted" by a ships' official, that changes the story and I would wait until said host is ready to depart. However, when it's you and your tablemates for the week, no one is hosting the table. Just my two Euros:cool:

 

I'll add my two Euros to this!:D

 

Absolutely correct, alive and kicking (not the bucket)

 

Having said that, with all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment, it is worth reflecting on the death of a very important person which almost went unnoticed last week. Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey," died peacefully at age 93.

 

The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin.

 

They put his left leg in, and that's when all the trouble started.....

 

 

OMG, I'm getting old-just fell for it again..:DLOL