Question only for those who get upset by the underdressed

[Alamogirl]

I believe they call it separting the "wheat" from the "Chaff".

 

Drewswife....You my dear are a snob! To refer to those as who do not meet your standards as "CHAFF", which means to sift out or anything worthless is, as I bite my tongue once again..... WRONG.

 

My comment regarding not paying attention to your comments is because of the rather elitist tone you seem to have. Coon _cat mom seemed concerned about her self image and agreeing with your suggestion to pay for an elite affair was concerning to me. No one should have to pay for something extra because of their dress and to suggest it IMHO is wrong.

 

I wish all of you a wonderful cruise, I will no longer partipate in this board, too much wheat for my taste.

[Jolimont]

I for one am perplexed as to why they write such rules and then do not enforce them. As I said in another thread, I would assume that if they were going to deny entry to anyone in the MDR, it would be at the door not after they had entered and were seated. The funny thing is that they are so strict about some rules and very lax about others, which makes no sense to me.

Why don't they enforce the rules? Because they rely on tips for their income. If they give passengers a hard time--justified or not--their tips will go down considerably. Maitre D and waiters are no fools, they are not going to put themselves in a situation to rub cruisers the wrong way (and lose their pay) just because someone who should be cruising Cunard (given their preferences on formal attire) is on Carnival or RCI. They post the rules and hope for the best.

[Pennypocket]

Most likely we have beaten this dead horse enough. I do find it amusing that those of us who make an effort to up hold a modicum of standards are always called snobs and rude. I guess those that make this call are too unsure of their position and need to try to bring others to their level or they know they are pushing the envelope but do not wish to carry the burden of responsibility for their actions and wish everyone would applaud and approve.

 

Such is true throughout society. We are told we should Never judge so most just go along with outrageous behavior condeming it only in private. Then we wonder why we have now two complete generations of "entitlement children" who do what they want, when they want where they want and are upset if ever called on it.

 

It is time to take back what we have lost one well dressed hatless evening at a time.

[Soxfan05]

Most likely we have beaten this dead horse enough. I do find it amusing that those of us who make an effort to up hold a modicum of standards are always called snobs and rude. I guess those that make this call are too unsure of their position and need to try to bring others to their level or they know they are pushing the envelope but do not wish to carry the burden of responsibility for their actions and wish everyone would applaud and approve.

 

Such is true throughout society. We are told we should Never judge so most just go along with outrageous behavior condeming it only in private. Then we wonder why we have now two complete generations of "entitlement children" who do what they want, when they want where they want and are upset if ever called on it.

 

It is time to take back what we have lost one well dressed hatless evening at a time.

 

As expected, this has gone off the rails so once again, let us let a thread on formality die a slow death.

 

HappyKS made a terrific point that generally, the most volatile threads are transferred from cruise line specific boards to the fashion board.

 

In regard to being called snobs and rude, that did not happen until well into this thread. It was not the expressed desire to dress well that sparked it but rather an incendiary idiom was used to describe special dining arrangements for the formally dressed.

 

My goal of this thread was to create discourse without judgment.But as evidenced in your post, the well dressed judge the underdressed and visa versa. I do not think the underdressed are "unsure of their position and trying to bring others to their level". Just as I do not think that those who dress to the nines "are snobs who are flaunting" (taken from countless other threads). I think it is just the simple idea that some people like to dress up and some don't. After all "the clothes don't make the man."

 

In regard to cruises and formal nights. I too believe that is not the time to flaunt a nonconformist attitude. If you want to dine in the MDR, dress as requested or dine elsewhere. It's an evening when one's inner beauty just isn't enough. :D

 

Happy cruising to all!

[Happy ks]

Not that many years ago, formal attire on cruises was tradition, women wore ballgowns and evening gowns, men wore tuxedos. There were even semi-formal nights (which has now pretty much replaced formal), women wore cocktail dresses, men wore suits or sportscoats. Then there were casual nights, which was more like what would be considered "country club casual". This was standard as cruising was a luxury vacation. This was in the late 90's when we first started cruising, so not that very long ago at all.

 

I think the demise started with the inception of "freestyle dining", where people had the option to dress formally or not. With advertisements leaning towards families, adventure and sports activities for other main line cruise companies, people started to think of cruising as a more laid back vacation. Cruise fares have come down to the point where many people who once could not afford them are now able to.

 

Then we get hit with only being able to check one bag, with a charge for a second, then a charge for the first and even more for the second! What's a person to do???

 

We all judge, I've learned that from someone on this board, even though I try not to it's just human nature. We categorize people with first impressions, sometimes it's a protective thing for us. But our assumptions can be wrong and we all need to give others a chance to know them, rather than immediately size them up upon first impression.

 

I don't know what people's stories are, I don't know that they didn't get their luggage, perhaps to them they think what they are wearing is formal. (in comparison to what they wear at home in their real life) I've met lovely people on cruises that were in no way dressed appropriately, I've met total boors in tuxedos and visa versa.

 

Snobbery goes both ways though. To me the people who don't want to dress formally, yet call those who like to dress up "fashion police" in a condescending tone are just as snobby, if not moreso, than those looking down their nose at others.

[BroncosFan2010]

Not that many years ago, formal attire on cruises was tradition, women wore ballgowns and evening gowns, men wore tuxedos. There were even semi-formal nights (which has now pretty much replaced formal), women wore cocktail dresses, men wore suits or sportscoats. Then there were casual nights, which was more like what would be considered "country club casual". This was standard as cruising was a luxury vacation. This was in the late 90's when we first started cruising, so not that very long ago at all.

 

I think the demise started with the inception of "freestyle dining", where people had the option to dress formally or not. With advertisements leaning towards families, adventure and sports activities for other main line cruise companies, people started to think of cruising as a more laid back vacation. Cruise fares have come down to the point where many people who once could not afford them are now able to.

 

Then we get hit with only being able to check one bag, with a charge for a second, then a charge for the first and even more for the second! What's a person to do???

 

We all judge, I've learned that from someone on this board, even though I try not to it's just human nature. We categorize people with first impressions, sometimes it's a protective thing for us. But our assumptions can be wrong and we all need to give others a chance to know them, rather than immediately size them up upon first impression.

 

I don't know what people's stories are, I don't know that they didn't get their luggage, perhaps to them they think what they are wearing is formal. (in comparison to what they wear at home in their real life) I've met lovely people on cruises that were in no way dressed appropriately, I've met total boors in tuxedos and visa versa.

 

Snobbery goes both ways though. To me the people who don't want to dress formally, yet call those who like to dress up "fashion police" in a condescending tone are just as snobby, if not moreso, than those looking down their nose at others.

 

Very Well Said! I could not agree with you more!

[Soxfan05]

 

I think the demise started with the inception of "freestyle dining", where people had the option to dress formally or not. With advertisements leaning towards families, adventure and sports activities for other main line cruise companies, people started to think of cruising as a more laid back vacation. Cruise fares have come down to the point where many people who once could not afford them are now able to.

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I honestly don't think though that active lifestyle = casual dress. Sure for those activities you dress casually, but many people of all walks of life enjoy being active and it doesn't stop them from dressing appropriately for work, church, events etc. I also don't believe lower price to be the issue either.

 

We always vacation during a peak week (President's Week). It's very expensive. We dined at Caneel Bay this past year. A European family, who said they were staying on property was seated next to us at dinner. We were at an open air dining establishment but a dress code is part of staying and or dining at Caneel. The husband was wearing torn jeans, an Ed Hardy esque t-shirt (it was probably was an expensive European brand), flip flops and a do rag. On another side was a family, again who stated they were guests at the resort, with children and husband dressed in New York Jets apparel.

 

I only vividly recall this because my boys were upset that I made them dress appropriately for the evening. I had told them there was a dress code and from what they saw, there was not. So at a $1,000 per night resort, in a $75 pp + restaurant, people still chose to dress inappropriately. Granted St. John is a very laid back vacation destination and the outdoor restaurants are not formal but they are also not a place where one would feel comfortable in clothes suitable for yard work or a sporting event.

 

My kids got over it and know that it isn't right to do something just because you can get away with it.

 

I truly believe the problem is that dress codes are not enforced ANYWHERE and as such, people choose to ignore them and consider them to be nothing more than guidelines..to follow or not. They know it's all about the $ and an establishment would rather turn a blind eye to infractions than lose a customer. I often wonder how many customers they lose because of NOT enforcing their rules which again, is part of the reason I asked the original question.

[cruisemom42]

I remember even farther back than Happy KS to the days when you either wore formal or semi-formal clothing every night; when the dining room (fixed seating) was the ONLY place to eat breakfast and dinner, and for lunch there might be a small, temporary buffet set up by the pool.

 

This was in the 1970s, not the 1930s! I was a child/young teen in those years and believe me we were not a ritzy family. We generally had 4 of us in a single, inside cabin (lowest category) in order to be able to afford the trip. Yet we still dressed appropriately every evening -- people wouldn't dream of doing otherwise. And you know what, somehow it didn't impinge on our enjoyment of the evening at all! I mean, I was a kid (a tomboy) who wore shorts, swimsuit, jeans all day long, and yet my vacation wasn't ruined at all because I had to dress up! Amazing!

:rolleyes:

 

Okay, enough with the sarcasm. But I do have a bit of a hard time understanding how people find it so difficult to dress according to the cruiseline's stated guidelines, as if doing so would completely ruin some sort of vacation nirvana they've reached....

 

Also, you read about people (right here on the fashion board even!) who lug things along on their cruises like coffee makers and mugs, blenders, fans, full-sized blow dryers, clothes steamers, pillows, scuba gear, laptops, etc. Yet they can't manage to find room to slip a small slinky cocktail dress and pair of sandals in their suitcase. Just sayin'......

[Pennypocket]

Interesting. I honestly don't think though that active lifestyle = casual dress. Sure for those activities you dress casually, but many people of all walks of life enjoy being active and it doesn't stop them from dressing appropriately for work, church, events etc. I also don't believe lower price to be the issue either.

 

We always vacation during a peak week (President's Week). It's very expensive. We dined at Caneel Bay this past year. A European family, who said they were staying on property was seated next to us at dinner. We were at an open air dining establishment but a dress code is part of staying and or dining at Caneel. The husband was wearing torn jeans, an Ed Hardy esque t-shirt (it was probably was an expensive European brand), flip flops and a do rag. On another side was a family, again who stated they were guests at the resort, with children and husband dressed in New York Jets apparel.

 

I only vividly recall this because my boys were upset that I made them dress appropriately for the evening. I had told them there was a dress code and from what they saw, there was not. So at a $1,000 per night resort, in a $75 pp + restaurant, people still chose to dress inappropriately. Granted St. John is a very laid back vacation destination and the outdoor restaurants are not formal but they are also not a place where one would feel comfortable in clothes suitable for yard work or a sporting event.

 

My kids got over it and know that it isn't right to do something just because you can get away with it.

 

I truly believe the problem is that dress codes are not enforced ANYWHERE and as such, people choose to ignore them and consider them to be nothing more than guidelines..to follow or not. They know it's all about the $ and an establishment would rather turn a blind eye to infractions than lose a customer. I often wonder how many customers they lose because of NOT enforcing their rules which again, is part of the reason I asked the original question.

 

 

Most people walk with the feet and not with their comments. For the average eatery or resort, if I find it not to my liking I chose to never return and most likely will not bother to explain the lose of my business to the management.. However, if it happens to be one of the last bastions of what I consider correct and offers a civilized (sorry I do not consider most of society to be civilized with two generations having been in my opinion raised by wolves - I am over 70) atmosphere, I will fight tooth and nail to retain it. Once I am gone (No plans until after the country's tri-centennial) they can do what they wish.

 

I do not consider this to be snobbish or rude. I was raised to take my hat off indoors, to wear your very best clothes for each occasion and was taught what clothes went to which occassion. I was taught to treat women as ladies (sadly most women do not consider themselves ladies these days so that can be a problem at times but I manage) and would never insult my lady by not dressing appropriately to what she wishes. So if she wants to put on the full show, why would I insult her with less than an equal presentation. Too many women in my opinion have different agenda with their men and have allowed them to get away with poor behavoir instead of standing their ground. And I can see no valid reason why I should modify my upbringing to make someone else feel more comfortable while I now feel very uncomfortable. Attaining certain things in life used to be goals and one earned them. Now we have the "entitled generations" where $$ speaks volumes and gentility and style very little.

[mermaid72]

Drew's Wife,

I am sorry that your formal evening was spoiled by your table mates' lack of proper sartorial sense. I do agree however about baseball caps at the table-- very rude!

Some cruise lines seem to attract a type of passenger that does not worry about such mundane matters as proper dress for dinner. Other lines have a more sophisticated passenger base.

One story I heard a while ago on this site was quite interesting. It was Carnival, a "formal" night, and a group of young women, all quite tipsy, who wore hats in the shape of, how can I say this nicely, a part of the male anatomy! The maitre d' was besieged by complaints, but refused to say anything to these tacky young things. This probably would have not happened on a higher-end cruise line. But, one never knows!

So perhaps sailing on Silverseas, Cunard, or other such ships might solve the problem.

[cooncat_mom]

I'm truly sorry if I started something - I really didn't mean to! I do joke about my looks, but I wear what I do for formal night because the cut looks the best on my apple figure. It's appropriate for a formal evening (as I was taught by my mother!:)) and since I am a dowager I certainly don't mind looking like one! I do think that you're right though - it's time to lose the pearls...I also really can't wear heels according to my physical therapist. I went against his advice once and after I was able to walk again, decided to listen to him :o!

 

I also think I missed that Soxfan5 proposed the separate venue too (sorry!) but I really do agree with you and Drew's Wife! I've read so many threads on the formal attire ideas but it was only with this thread that I realized it's not really about the outside clothes, but more about the type of experience you're looking for. We always eat in the MDR and we always change for dinner as if we were going to a nice restaurant. We do dress for formal night, but we change after dinner since we're looking for something more casual. The thought of a truly formal dining experience along the lines of the cruises of classic lines is certainly an experience I can see many people looking for - and from the many threads on the board, it's surprising the lines don't provide it. With a separate venue, they could have an experience in a truly elegant atmosphere which lasted 4 - 6 hours and it could be specified beforehand that dinner jackets or tuxedos for men and long formal dresses for women were required. Since this thread came up with the basic idea, maybe any line that decides to do this would share the profits with us...:D

[lovemylab]

One thing I have noticed from reading these boards is that everyone's idea of what is appropriate on formal night is different. Some feel that tuxes and ballgowns should be the standard, while others think that cocktail dresses and suits are fine. Some feel that a dress shirt (with or without tie) and no jacket is perfectly acceptable. Others think that a polo shirt and khaki's is appropriate as well.

 

Personally, I think the person who shows up wearing shorts and a ballcap looks just as ridiculous on formal night (and out of place) as the 50 year old woman wearing a poofy prom type formal dress that was clearly intendended for someone 30 years younger.

 

All I ask for on formal night is an effort be made to dress nicer. There is no excuse for ballcaps, shorts, flip flops, etc. However, if someone shows up wearing a pair of dress pants and a dress shirt/tie I would have no problem with it. Are they following the suggested guidelines? No. But at least they made an effort to dress up and won't look out of place.

[Pennypocket]

 

All I ask for on formal night is an effort be made to dress nicer. There is no excuse for ballcaps, shorts, flip flops, etc. However, if someone shows up wearing a pair of dress pants and a dress shirt/tie I would have no problem with it. Are they following the suggested guidelines? No. But at least they made an effort to dress up and won't look out of place.

 

 

First of all one does not get to interpret "formal" But having said that let's look at this from a logical prospective. Can we assume that IF you have accumulated sufficient money for the cruise that you are capable of reading and other things modestly intelligent. You have also managed somehow to book the cruise, arranged for travel to and from the pier. Therefore can we assume you are also capable of following the rest of the instructions ie: the dress code? Therefore, if you arrive at whatever venue not properly dressed as per the code then we can assume that you have decided that rules are not for you and you are therefore the rude individual not someone who may call you on the under dressing for the event.

 

The tread of not folloing the rules runs throughout society and we are all guilty of picking and choosing which rules and even laws we will follow and which ones we will not. However, every action has a reaction and if one goes against the rules as they say. If you are not prepared to do the time do not do the crime. So if you will be put out by those that may have a comment or two towards your behavior, then don't do the behavior or find a different resort, restaurant, job or cruise line to enjoy the behavior. Heavens knows there are literally dozens of cruise lines offering anything from a bareboats approach to a bare boats style with linen to the more traditional lines where passenger ambiance is considered to be part of the experience not a deterent to having a good time.

[illinoismomof4]

this is their dress code

 

Both dress codes for the dining rooms are described below.

Cruise Casual Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Sport slacks, khakis, jeans (no cut-offs), dress shorts (long), collared sport shirts; Ladies - Casual dresses, casual skirts or pants and blouses, summer dresses, Capri pants, dress shorts, jeans (no cut-offs).

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Casual dinner for ladies and gentlemen: shorts, gym shorts, basketball shorts, beach flip-flops, bathing suit attire, cut-off jeans, sleeveless shirts for men and baseball hats.

 

 

Cruise Elegant Dining Dress Code: Gentlemen - Dress slacks, dress shirts. We also suggest a sport coat. If you wish to wear suits and ties or tuxedos, by all means we invite you to do so. Ladies - Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; if you‘d like to show off your evening gowns, that's great too!

 

 

Not permitted in the dining room during the Cruise Elegant dinner for ladies and gentlemen: shorts, gym shorts, T-shirts, beach flip-flops, bathing suit attire, jeans, cut-off jeans, sleeveless shirts for men, sportswear, and baseball hats.

 

 

So I have planned according to this, I am taking two long dresses as this is my choice I could wear a short dress and be with in the dress code

[Soxfan05]

I'm truly sorry if I started something - I really didn't mean to! .:D

 

No worries. You offered lots of positive input! Have a great cruise!

[lovemylab]

First of all one does not get to interpret "formal" But having said that let's look at this from a logical prospective. Can we assume that IF you have accumulated sufficient money for the cruise that you are capable of reading and other things modestly intelligent. You have also managed somehow to book the cruise, arranged for travel to and from the pier. Therefore can we assume you are also capable of following the rest of the instructions ie: the dress code? Therefore, if you arrive at whatever venue not properly dressed as per the code then we can assume that you have decided that rules are not for you and you are therefore the rude individual not someone who may call you on the under dressing for the event.

 

The tread of not folloing the rules runs throughout society and we are all guilty of picking and choosing which rules and even laws we will follow and which ones we will not. However, every action has a reaction and if one goes against the rules as they say. If you are not prepared to do the time do not do the crime. So if you will be put out by those that may have a comment or two towards your behavior, then don't do the behavior or find a different resort, restaurant, job or cruise line to enjoy the behavior. Heavens knows there are literally dozens of cruise lines offering anything from a bareboats approach to a bare boats style with linen to the more traditional lines where passenger ambiance is considered to be part of the experience not a deterent to having a good time.

 

First, I never stated that I didn't follow the dress code. On formal nights my DH wears a suit and I wear a very nice cocktail dress. This is appropriate according to the cruise guidelines. I do agree with you completely that the person who doesn't follow the rules is the one being rude. If I didn't feel like dressing up, I'd simply head to the Windjammer.

 

Like it or not, people do interpret "formal" differently. I worked in catering for close to 10 years and seen many formal events during my time - while one person sees "formal" as being an event that calls for a ballgown and tux, there are others who feel a shirt/tie and Sunday church service dress is perfectly fine. Trust me, I could write a book about some of the strange attire I have seen at "formal" events :eek:

 

I was merely pointing out that IF someone was to show up wearing a pair of dress pants, shirt and tie it would not bother me. The biggest reason for this is that many men who do wear a suit end up removing the jacket before dinner is served anyways - so really, they don't look any more dressed up than the person sitting next to them wearing a shirt/tie who chose to leave the jacket at home. So while you may want to call them out, I likely wouldn't.

[elycelynne]

I'm truly sorry if I started something - I really didn't mean to! I do joke about my looks, but I wear what I do for formal night because the cut looks the best on my apple figure. It's appropriate for a formal evening (as I was taught by my mother!:)) and since I am a dowager I certainly don't mind looking like one! I do think that you're right though - it's time to lose the pearls...I also really can't wear heels according to my physical therapist. I went against his advice once and after I was able to walk again, decided to listen to him :o!

 

I totally agree with the concept of flowing chiffon-type pants and a fancy top for formal nights. Definitely no need for pearls. And nobody will blink an eye if you pair those with dressy flats or a very low heel. (Hey, I already do all this!) ;)

[David V]

 

Like it or not, people do interpret "formal" differently.

 

...many men who do wear a suit end up removing the jacket before dinner is served anyways - so really, they don't look any more dressed up than the person sitting next to them wearing a shirt/tie who chose to leave the jacket at home. So while you may want to call them out, I likely wouldn't.

 

I believe pennypocket's point is that there is no need interpret "Formal". The definition already exists and is printed in the literature. The trouble comes from people ignoring and creating their own definition to suit themselves.

 

Following the dress code is etiquette. One of the purposes of etiquette is to make others comfortable.

 

I've never understood some men's penchant for disrobing in public! :eek: Unless the A/C has broken down and the venue is oppressively hot I can see why they don't keep their clothes on.

[AFS1970]

I have mixed feelings about the idea of a separate formal venue. On the one hand I think it holds promise, although as I am not a fan of dancing, I might not attend a dinner dance. However I think the only way this would be cost effective for the cruise line is to charge a fee and I for one do not see why those following the rules should pay a fee in order to make it easier on those who do not.

 

In my opinion if the cruise line has no intention of enforcing the rules then do not list them. I actually have more respect for the lines that have adapted the dress code to meet their target audience. They have adapted to a change in the way their passengers perceive standards.

 

I am just old enough to have escaped being raised by wolves, but only barely. I am most often in jeans and t-shirts, including at work. However I understand that there are times when that is not appropriate dress. I don't think many people who know me would call me a snob. The only reason I would bring formal wear on a cruise is because the cruise line lists certain nights as formal nights.

 

I have said it in other threads, I think this issue has less to do with clothing than it does with following rules. It really does not matter if it is babies int he pool, rum runners in your luggage or flip flops in the dining room. This is about the cruise line saying that one must do A and someone either blatantly deciding to do B or trying to figure out how close to Z they can get away with.

[rdsqrl]

Most people walk with the feet and not with their comments. For the average eatery or resort, if I find it not to my liking I chose to never return and most likely will not bother to explain the lose of my business to the management.. However, if it happens to be one of the last bastions of what I consider correct and offers a civilized (sorry I do not consider most of society to be civilized with two generations having been in my opinion raised by wolves - I am over 70) atmosphere, I will fight tooth and nail to retain it. Once I am gone (No plans until after the country's tri-centennial) they can do what they wish.

 

I do not consider this to be snobbish or rude. I was raised to take my hat off indoors, to wear your very best clothes for each occasion and was taught what clothes went to which occassion. I was taught to treat women as ladies (sadly most women do not consider themselves ladies these days so that can be a problem at times but I manage) and would never insult my lady by not dressing appropriately to what she wishes. So if she wants to put on the full show, why would I insult her with less than an equal presentation. Too many women in my opinion have different agenda with their men and have allowed them to get away with poor behavoir instead of standing their ground. And I can see no valid reason why I should modify my upbringing to make someone else feel more comfortable while I now feel very uncomfortable. Attaining certain things in life used to be goals and one earned them. Now we have the "entitled generations" where $$ speaks volumes and gentility and style very little.

Sir, I may have been "raised by wolves" (I'm really not sure what the birth-year cutoff is for your ridiculous assertion) but I can still recognize a load of prejudiced codswallop (to use a term from your generation) when I see it. I don't know whether to be impressed with how many groups you've managed to insult in one post or horrified by your open bigotry. I was under the perhaps Pollyannaish impression that, like racism, openly sexist and ageist posts would not be tolerated on these boards.

[Pennypocket]

Sir, I may have been "raised by wolves" (I'm really not sure what the birth-year cutoff is for your ridiculous assertion) but I can still recognize a load of prejudiced codswallop (to use a term from your generation) when I see it. I don't know whether to be impressed with how many groups you've managed to insult in one post or horrified by your open bigotry. I was under the perhaps Pollyannaish impression that, like racism, openly sexist and ageist posts would not be tolerated on these boards.

 

 

My sincere apology for any insult taken by you. Only you know if you have been raised by wolves as I do not know you and would assume if you had not been then you would not be offended by that statement. If one takes more than a few moments to appraise their daily surroundings and interactions with many of the populace one also may conclude that my opinion (not an outright statement of fact but an opinion) holds some water.

 

As to the sexist insult. I am not sure if you were offended by my treating women as ladies or my opinion that many women no longer consider themselves ladies. I sincerely do not consider stating an opinion to be a sexist act and I see nothing ageist in my comments other than possibly my admission to being over 70. If I am not annoyed by being over 70 why should you be. To attempt to censor opinions not to our liking is to move our society deeper into the realm of those countries where women really are treated as chattel and anti-anything is cause for at the least a reeducation camp. Surely you do not advocate such remedys to a simply stated opinion?

[Soxfan05]

I have mixed feelings about the idea of a separate formal venue. On the one hand I think it holds promise, although as I am not a fan of dancing, I might not attend a dinner dance. However I think the only way this would be cost effective for the cruise line is to charge a fee and I for one do not see why those following the rules should pay a fee in order to make it easier on those who do not.

 

 

 

 

In regard to an all formal event, the thought is more about giving those who really want the full on, formal evening and are truly upset by the more casual goings on around ship than it is about "paying because you are appropriate." It should not be just a room, a meal and entertainment but an entire sensory experience where one is transported to an atmosphere of elegance. A party that anyone who attends speaks excitedly about and deems a highlight of their trip. The side effect, I am sure would be something that "everyone wanted to attend" and suddenly, Mr. "I don't wear a jacket and tie on vacation" is dressed to the nines. There is something about feeling excluded that makes many people want to conform to be included and see what all the buzz is about.

[Soxfan05]

But having said that let's look at this from a logical prospective. Can we assume that IF you have accumulated sufficient money for the cruise that you are capable of reading and other things modestly intelligent. You have also managed somehow to book the cruise, arranged for travel to and from the pier. Therefore can we assume you are also capable of following the rest of the instructions ie: the dress code? .

 

Unfortunately, in a world of nouveau riche imbeciles, I do not believe you can assume any of the above. ;)

 

No offense to the poster to whom this was addressed- my comment is not aimed at you personally rather the many morons whom I as a business owner, has to chase for money owed for services rendered.

[toxicfairy]

First of all one does not get to interpret "formal" But having said that let's look at this from a logical prospective. Can we assume that IF you have accumulated sufficient money for the cruise that you are capable of reading and other things modestly intelligent. You have also managed somehow to book the cruise, arranged for travel to and from the pier. Therefore can we assume you are also capable of following the rest of the instructions ie: the dress code? Therefore, if you arrive at whatever venue not properly dressed as per the code then we can assume that you have decided that rules are not for you and you are therefore the rude individual not someone who may call you on the under dressing for the event.

 

The tread of not folloing the rules runs throughout society and we are all guilty of picking and choosing which rules and even laws we will follow and which ones we will not. However, every action has a reaction and if one goes against the rules as they say. If you are not prepared to do the time do not do the crime. So if you will be put out by those that may have a comment or two towards your behavior, then don't do the behavior or find a different resort, restaurant, job or cruise line to enjoy the behavior. Heavens knows there are literally dozens of cruise lines offering anything from a bareboats approach to a bare boats style with linen to the more traditional lines where passenger ambiance is considered to be part of the experience not a deterent to having a good time.

 

After reading a few of your comments on here I only have one thing to say to you...I would love to have you seated at our table. While we may not be completely up to your standards at least we would be sitting with some one who is dressed for the occasion and knows table manners. I am guessing by your age that the table conversation would also be enjoyable.

[ailuro]

Does anyone else keep reading this thread title and think

 

Bikinis? Too short skirts? Topless men by the pool?

 

:D

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the ship we are on has two large, no fee restaurants. I think one should be the usual clothing options, and the other should be for those who have made an effort to dress up.

 

Normally it will be obvious who has tried hard to dress up, even if they don't get it quite right we're not going to throw them out of the dressy area, are we?

 

But shorts or a wrinkled sundress for formal or not night seems to leave those who have made an effort feeling a bit put out, so it would solve the problem. They both have the same menu, so it really wouldn't make a difference for one night.

 

I don't care if it's formal or not, there was a comment on here that someone who cruised with NCL was pleasantly surprised the more than half of the cruisers in the MDR had gone to the 'bother' of dressing up formally, so we will be taking the opportunity to get dressed up i our best gear:D.