Lusitanica's EPIC REVIEW with pics, videos, comments, etc.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='lusitanica']This cabin seems to have an uncovered balcony, obstructed view of the water, and the bed next to the toilet.

Change this cabin ASAP.
Avoid Deck 8.
Be very careful booking cabins on Deck 9.
It's better to look at Deck 10 and higher.

[IMG]http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3041/8038.jpg[/IMG][/quote]


Does that mean that Deck 8 should sail empty all the time?

I suspect if they lose 15% of their cabins, the ship will be unprofitable and will stop sailing altogether.


From the photos, it's good to see that the balcony is uncovered and has to look out, not down, to see water....but for some people that's fine. We used our balcony for exactly 5 minutes on our last cruise.

[barneyg]

A huge huge thank you to all the posters regarding our maiden voyage in what was going to be room 8038, Just to say i have been on to a fantastic lady at NCL and have now moved to 14107. I know this is up near the kids club but as we have a son who is so wanting to go to the club there , I feel this has been a good move for us. If anyone can point out our cabin and the position of the bed then that would be tremendous too. Thank you all so much I would not have done this without you all xx

[coffeebean]

[quote name='barneyg']A huge huge thank you to all the posters regarding our maiden voyage in what was going to be room 8038, Just to say i have been on to a fantastic lady at NCL and have now moved to 14107. I know this is up near the kids club but as we have a son who is so wanting to go to the club there , I feel this has been a good move for us. [COLOR=Red][B]If anyone can point out our cabin and the position of the bed then that would be tremendous too. [/B][/COLOR]Thank you all so much I would not have done this without you all xx[/quote]
Your bed is by the entry door. If you look at the deck plans, you will see the "bump out" in the room is close to the entry door. That is how you can tell where the bed is as the bed is located within that bump out.

Enjoy your balcony. It is larger than the standard balconies... just on the cusp where the ship widens.

[Jerseyboy1]

[quote name='sjbdtz']Does that mean that Deck 8 should sail empty all the time?

I suspect if they lose 15% of their cabins, the ship will be unprofitable and will stop sailing altogether.


From the photos, it's good to see that the balcony is uncovered and has to look out, not down, to see water....but for some people that's fine. We used our balcony for exactly 5 minutes on our last cruise.[/quote]

Just pull the life boats back into the hull and hang them from that deck like in previous ships that have been built and successfully run for decades. (sorry couldn't resist):o:)

Seriously, I probably wouldn't pick an exposed balcony on any ship for my cabin though. Just sayin'...

[lusitanica]

[quote name='jmcdon7230'] "Deck 10 and higher"? [/quote]

Yes, Deck 10 and higher.

[lusitanica]

[quote name='barneyg']A huge huge thank you to all the posters regarding our maiden voyage in what was going to be room 8038, Just to say i have been on to a fantastic lady at NCL and have now moved to 14107. I know this is up near the kids club but as we have a son who is so wanting to go to the club there , I feel this has been a good move for us. If anyone can point out our cabin and the position of the bed then that would be tremendous too. Thank you all so much I would not have done this without you all xx[/quote]
[IMG]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/369/14107.jpg[/IMG]

[barneyg]

Thank you everyone, I do like the look of the middle of the ship !!!!! nice view too from up there , as you say better to be up near the penthouses , than in the bargain basement !!! lol

[sdmike]

you'll like that room. You have an extended balcony with a lot of it "double covered" with an extended ceiling above it, which is great in bad weather or brutal sun. Our balcony in 14022 had the extended ceiling over it and we loved it. YOu have the best of both worlds with your balcony.

[lusitanica]

[quote name='ringram']I read this review before I went on our 10/2 cruise on the Epic. I suspected at the time it had an agenda. After spending a week on the Epic I cannot stand by and not say something that is as far from factual as this

Just fom the first page:
Just plain. Moderate. Nothing distinctive. (OPINION)
no Wow factor at all. (OPINION)
There is an impression (OPINION)
There is no place to walk outside and enjoy sea breeze on Epic. (Definetely two outside upper decks, where there was a breeze. Enjoyment is personal not factual)
Other massive objects on the upper deck are engines uptakes, and the structure that holds some sports facilities. (This one of the few factual points, but this is true for most ships)

Nearly all of your commentd about dining were opinion. But it is your comments on the entertainment is what really gives you away. The shows in the theater were never full. I never saw a line at sooner than 20-30 minutes, and for the 5 shows we attended we never arrived more than 10 minutes early and never sat further back than the 4th row. Cirque I cannot give favorable reviews for, and yes these were sold out. All other shows (no exception) you could attend without reservations.

I can go on, but this review was such trash that it cannot be considered a review, nor just an opinion. This was written with intent, and the intent is obvious to anyone who has sailed on the Epic.

Is the ship perfect? No. Is the ship for everyone? No.

But as much as I love cruising, if I had the intent to trash a ship, I could write something similar to this review about every ship sailing. There is more to prove this FACT that anything in this review.[/quote]



[B][COLOR=red]The review contains TONS of facts about the ship in the form of photos, videos, measurements, diagrams along with subjective impressions.[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=red]Plese read from the beginning (Foreword).[/COLOR][/B]

[lusitanica]

[quote name='barneyg']Thank you everyone, I do like the look of the middle of the ship !!!!! nice view too from up there , as you say better to be up near the penthouses , than in the bargain basement !!! lol[/quote]

You are welcome.

Any questions about cabins/balconies location are welcome.

[Boston and beyond cruiser]

Ringram: Interesting take on Lusitanica's review. I, myself, found his review to be very subjective and neither negative nor positive - just factual to be taken for what it's worth, and a picture (video) is definitely worth a thousand words.

Fact: the standard balcony rooms ARE tiny.
Fact: the bathroom set-up is weird.
Fact: no soaring atriums.
Fact: no promenade.
Fact: dark, closed-in jogging track.
Fact: tiny swimming pools.
Fact: public rooms feel closed in; no connection to sea.
Fact: have to go thru (smoky??) casino to get anywhere.

Whether these things bother you or not (or affect your cruise or not) isn't the point - Lusitanica was simply documenting what is there.

I totally agree about dining being subjective and never pay much attention to what anyone says about that, but the fact that the entertainment venues weren't crowded on YOUR cruise doesn't mean that they weren't crowded on HIS.

Anyway, Lusitanica's review definitely didn't dissuade me from cruising on Epic - I had made that decision a long time ago, and his review just affirmed that it isn't the ship for me. If it is for you, GREAT - enjoy!

Again, Lusitanica: thank you for what I felt was an informative, factual review. And 'fess up - you really did enjoy yourself, didn't you?? [IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG]

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='lusitanica'][B][COLOR=red]The review contains TONS of facts about the ship in the form of photos, videos, measurements, diagrams along with subjective impressions.[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=red]Plese read from the beginning (Foreword).[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

[quote name='Boston and beyond cruiser']Ringram: Interesting take on Lusitanica's review. I, myself, found his review to be very subjective and neither negative nor positive - just factual to be taken for what it's worth, and a picture (video) is definitely worth a thousand words.

Fact: the standard balcony rooms ARE tiny. [COLOR=red][B]Not a fact. An opinion. Tiny is subjective.[/B][/COLOR]
Fact: the bathroom set-up is weird. [B][COLOR=red]No it isn't. That's just an opinion, as well. They had same bathroom setup at the Courtyard Marriott in Ann Arbor.[/COLOR][/B]
Fact: no soaring atriums. [COLOR=red][B]That's not factual. There's an Atrium which soars 3 storeys high, resplendent with a Swarowski crystal chandelier.[/B][/COLOR]
Fact: no promenade.
Fact: dark, closed-in jogging track.
Fact: tiny swimming pools.
Fact: public rooms feel closed in; no connection to sea. [B][COLOR=red]They don't feel closed-in. That's subjective. They have a connection to the sea, through the doors.[/COLOR][/B]
Fact: have to go thru (smoky??) casino to get anywhere. [B][COLOR=red]No, you don't. It's very easy to go around the casino to get anywhere.[/COLOR][/B]

Whether these things bother you or not (or affect your cruise or not) isn't the point - Lusitanica was simply documenting what is there.

I totally agree about dining being subjective and never pay much attention to what anyone says about that, but the fact that the entertainment venues weren't crowded on YOUR cruise doesn't mean that they weren't crowded on HIS.

Anyway, Lusitanica's review definitely didn't dissuade me from cruising on Epic - I had made that decision a long time ago, and his review just affirmed that it isn't the ship for me. If it is for you, GREAT - enjoy!

Again, Lusitanica: thank you for what I felt was an informative, factual review. And 'fess up - you really did enjoy yourself, didn't you?? [IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG][/quote]


This post is the whole reason why the OP's 'review' needs dissecting. You have taken for granted his assertions about cabin size, and bathrooms, and navigating the ship.

Yet, they're either wrong, or subjective opinions.

[sdmike]

What I find funny is that one of the best "connections to the sea" was in the Recess kid's club. The big windows looking out the port side were awesome. Too bad nobody over 12 got to hang out there. :)

I'm actually curious what people are referring to when they say there's no "connection to the sea" on the Epic. There are dozens of places with beautiful views of the ocean, even including some of the public bathrooms! :)

[Mr. Luckytoo]

[quote name='sjbdtz']This post is the whole reason why the OP's 'review' needs dissecting. You have taken for granted his assertions about cabin size, and bathrooms, and navigating the ship.

Yet, they're either wrong, or subjective opinions.[/quote]
No they're not wrong:

Originally Posted by [B]Boston and beyond cruiser[/B] (red is Stephens' opinion)

Fact: the standard balcony rooms ARE tiny. [COLOR=red][B]Not a fact. An opinion. Tiny is subjective. [COLOR=seagreen]These balcony rooms are smaller than industry norm.[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR]
[B][COLOR=#2e8b57][/COLOR][/B]
Fact: the bathroom set-up is weird. [B][COLOR=red]No it isn't. That's just an opinion, as well. They had same bathroom setup at the Courtyard Marriott in Ann Arbor. [/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]So you're comparing a ship to a land based hotel? The bathroom set-up on the Epic is non-standard to the CRUISE INDUSTRY. [SIZE=4]FACT.[/SIZE] [/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=#2e8b57][/COLOR][/B]
Fact: no soaring atriums. [COLOR=red][B]That's not factual. There's an Atrium which soars 3 storeys high, resplendent with a Swarowski crystal chandelier. [COLOR=#2e8b57]A hole in the decks does not an atrium make. The original poster wrote SOARING. [/COLOR][/B][/COLOR]
[B][COLOR=#2e8b57][/COLOR][/B]
Fact: no promenade. [COLOR=seagreen][B]FACT[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#2e8b57][/COLOR]
Fact: dark, closed-in jogging track. [B][COLOR=seagreen]FACT[/COLOR]
[/B]
Fact: tiny swimming pools. [B][COLOR=seagreen]FACT[/COLOR]
[/B]
Fact: public rooms feel closed in; no connection to sea. [B][COLOR=red]They don't feel closed-in. That's subjective. They have a connection to the sea, through the doors. [/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]By your definition everything on a ship has a connection to the sea...please.[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/B]
Fact: have to go thru (smoky??) casino to get anywhere. [B][COLOR=red]No, you don't. It's very easy to go around the casino to get anywhere.[/COLOR][/B]

Please check YOUR opinions as such. No one dissected your slanted review.

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='Mr. Luckytoo']No they're not wrong:

Originally Posted by [B]Boston and beyond cruiser[/B] (red is Stephens' opinion)

Fact: the standard balcony rooms ARE tiny. [COLOR=red][B]Not a fact. An opinion. Tiny is subjective. [COLOR=seagreen]These balcony rooms are smaller than industry norm.[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR]

Fact: the bathroom set-up is weird. [B][COLOR=red]No it isn't. That's just an opinion, as well. They had same bathroom setup at the Courtyard Marriott in Ann Arbor. [/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]So you're comparing a ship to a land based hotel? The bathroom set-up on the Epic is non-standard to the CRUISE INDUSTRY. [SIZE=4]FACT.[/SIZE] [/COLOR][/B]

Fact: no soaring atriums. [COLOR=red][B]That's not factual. There's an Atrium which soars 3 storeys high, resplendent with a Swarowski crystal chandelier. [COLOR=#2e8b57]A hole in the decks does not an atrium make. The original poster wrote SOARING. [/COLOR][/B][/COLOR]

Fact: no promenade. [COLOR=seagreen][B]FACT[/B][/COLOR]

Fact: dark, closed-in jogging track. [B][COLOR=seagreen]FACT[/COLOR][/B]

Fact: tiny swimming pools. [B][COLOR=seagreen]FACT[/COLOR][/B]

Fact: public rooms feel closed in; no connection to sea. [B][COLOR=red]They don't feel closed-in. That's subjective. They have a connection to the sea, through the doors. [/COLOR][COLOR=seagreen]By your definition everything on a ship has a connection to the sea...please.[/COLOR][/B]

Fact: have to go thru (smoky??) casino to get anywhere. [B][COLOR=red]No, you don't. It's very easy to go around the casino to get anywhere.[/COLOR][/B]

Please check YOUR opinions as such. No one dissected your slanted review.[/quote]

I think you're actually making Stephen's point - that his differing OPINION, and subsequently yours, prove that most of the 'facts' listed above are actually [I][B]opinions[/B][/I]. He wasn't attempting to refute the statements, only to point out that they are not FACTS, but opinions - just as you are now doing. As for 'soaring', whether or not the atrium on the Epic can be described as such would be opinion as well, don't you think? :)

[Boston and beyond cruiser]

Mr. Luckytoo: another voice of reason - thanks for the support. I forgot the rules that NO ONE is allowed to criticize "HIS" ship or say one negative word about "HIS" cruise line. I've got it now.

Just as I ignore food criticisms, I ignore one-sided biased "reviewers" with an extremely limited cruise line repertoire, but that's just me.

"Fact" or "opinion" could be argued all day, but I put much more stock in someone walking around videotaping the actual public spaces instead of someone screeching over and over "No they're not small - they're HUGE, OPEN, SOARING, connections with the sea all over the place (just open the doors!)....." Too funny, really.

O.k., I'm done now. [IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG]

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='CanadianTwosome']I think you're actually making Stephen's point - that his differing OPINION, and subsequently yours, prove that most of the 'facts' listed above are actually [I][B]opinions[/B][/I]. He wasn't attempting to refute the statements, only to point out that they are not FACTS, but opinions - just as you are now doing. As for 'soaring', whether or not the atrium on the Epic can be described as such would be opinion as well, don't you think? :)[/quote]

BINGO! You make me proud to be Canadian! :)

[Mr. Luckytoo]

[quote name='CanadianTwosome']I think you're actually making Stephen's point - that his differing OPINION, and subsequently yours, prove that most of the 'facts' listed above are actually [I][B]opinions[/B][/I]. He wasn't attempting to refute the statements, only to point out that they are not FACTS, but opinions - just as you are now doing. As for 'soaring', whether or not the atrium on the Epic can be described as such would be opinion as well, don't you think? :)[/quote]

Unfortunately some people will dispute a fact if it doesn't agree with their agenda. Facts are quantative and measurable. People like to change the parameter(s) in order to 'make their case'.

A perfect example is the atrium on the Epic. A 3-story hole between floors is, in my opinion, not a soaring atrium. When compared to exisiting cruise ships in the NCL fleet (Sky) I don't consider the Epic's "soaring". It IS an atrium and the chandelier is pretty but when describing it 'soaring' doesn't come to mind; more like functional.

However on the atrium issue I agree with you - it's more opinion than a hard fact. :)

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Fact: no soaring atriums. [COLOR=red][B]That's not factual. There's an Atrium which soars 3 storeys high, resplendent with a Swarowski crystal chandelier.[/B][/COLOR]
[B][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR=black]Another incorrect statement - the chandelier is the larget LED Chandelier at sea. It was designed by UK-based SMC Architects and Lighting Design[/COLOR]

[URL]http://www.thelifeofluxury.com/largest-led-chandelier-at-sea-norwegian-epic/[/URL]

That is a FACT.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='Mr. Luckytoo']Unfortunately some people will dispute a fact if it doesn't agree with their agenda. Facts are quantative and measurable. People like to change the parameter(s) in order to 'make their case'.

A perfect example is the atrium on the Epic. A 3-story hole between floors is, in my opinion, not a soaring atrium. When compared to exisiting cruise ships in the NCL fleet (Sky) I don't consider the Epic's "soaring". It IS an atrium and the chandelier is pretty but when describing it 'soaring' doesn't come to mind; more like functional.

However on the atrium issue I agree with you - it's more opinion than a hard fact. :)[/quote]


[URL]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1292096[/URL]

[lusitanica]

[quote name='Boston and beyond cruiser']Ringram: Interesting take on Lusitanica's review. I, myself, found his review to be very subjective and neither negative nor positive - just factual to be taken for what it's worth, and a picture (video) is definitely worth a thousand words.

Fact: the standard balcony rooms ARE tiny.
Fact: the bathroom set-up is weird.
Fact: no soaring atriums.
Fact: no promenade.
Fact: dark, closed-in jogging track.
Fact: tiny swimming pools.
Fact: public rooms feel closed in; no connection to sea.
Fact: have to go thru (smoky??) casino to get anywhere.

Whether these things bother you or not (or affect your cruise or not) isn't the point - [COLOR=red]Lusitanica was simply documenting what is there.[/COLOR]

I totally agree about dining being subjective and never pay much attention to what anyone says about that, but the fact that the entertainment venues weren't crowded on YOUR cruise doesn't mean that they weren't crowded on HIS.

Anyway, Lusitanica's review definitely didn't dissuade me from cruising on Epic - I had made that decision a long time ago, and his review just affirmed that it isn't the ship for me. If it is for you, GREAT - enjoy!

Again, Lusitanica: thank you for what I felt was an informative, factual review. And 'fess up - you really did enjoy yourself, didn't you?? [IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Thank you.

[CanadianTwosome]

[quote name='Mr. Luckytoo']Unfortunately some people will dispute a fact if it doesn't agree with their agenda. Facts are quantative and measurable. People like to change the parameter(s) in order to 'make their case'.

A perfect example is the atrium on the Epic. A 3-story hole between floors is, in my opinion, not a soaring atrium. When compared to exisiting cruise ships in the NCL fleet (Sky) I don't consider the Epic's "soaring". It IS an atrium and the chandelier is pretty but when describing it 'soaring' doesn't come to mind; more like functional.

However on the atrium issue I agree with you - it's more opinion than a hard fact. :)[/quote]

Ummmm... this post confuses me. You seem to be referring to the atrium as a perfect example of someone 'disputing a fact if it doesn't agree with their agenda', but in the next sentence, you clearly state that you are speaking about an opinion... Generally I have found that your posts at least follow some sort of logic, but this one just doesn't (or at least I'm not seeing it).

I absolutely agree that facts are quantitative and measurable. They have nothing to do with how something 'feels' or whether someone's use of a particular descriptor is deemed 'appropriate' by someone else. By the same token, there are many posters who would like their opinions to be accepted as fact, but no amount of protesting and repetition will make them so. What I have seen on this thread (and others) is that certain statements were made as 'facts', when they were actually opinions - some even included words like 'feels' or 'seems'. Just because other posters share the same opinions, they are still simply opinions and not facts, and again no amount of repetition will change that.

The issue as I see it is that people believe their opinions. They come to these boards and feel that by sharing them - especially the negative ones - they are helping others. When someone points out that what they are saying is only their opinion and may not apply to every passenger - often stating their differing experience as evidence - they feel like they're being accused of lying, but that is not the case. It's really frustrating when you've had a really fantastic time and loved a ship and someone comes and posts 'facts' that you know are NOT facts, because your perception was entirely different. The reality that two perceptions of the same thing are different is exactly what makes our subsequent beliefs about that thing OPINIONS. What makes it worse is that when the person tries to point that out - that since their experience left them with a different opinion, clearly it cannot be 'fact' - they are accused of being a cheerleader, or lashing out because of their 'blind loyalty' to a cruiseline, as if there is no other explanation for not agreeing with the negative statement. It's easy to [I][B]read[/B][/I] 'that is not A FACT' and [I][B]feel[/B][/I] like it's saying 'that is not TRUE', but these are also completely different statements.

The bottom line is that we all need to acknowledge that we are only experts in our own perceptions. Just because our opinion of something seems so obvious to us that it feels like it should be shared by everyone, that doesn't mean it will - and I feel confident stating my belief that the odds that every person will ever share one common opinion is nil. Now, I think that is an incredibly obvious statement to the point where I would like to call it a fact, but I can't, because I have nothing to back it up with other than my life experience and personal observations. :o

[ringram]

[quote name='Boston and beyond cruiser']Ringram: Interesting take on Lusitanica's review. I, myself, found his review to be very subjective and neither negative nor positive - just factual to be taken for what it's worth, and a picture (video) is definitely worth a thousand words.

Fact: the standard balcony rooms ARE tiny.
Fact: the bathroom set-up is weird.
Fact: no soaring atriums.
Fact: no promenade.
Fact: dark, closed-in jogging track.
Fact: tiny swimming pools.
Fact: public rooms feel closed in; no connection to sea.
Fact: have to go thru (smoky??) casino to get anywhere.

Whether these things bother you or not (or affect your cruise or not) isn't the point - Lusitanica was simply documenting what is there.

I totally agree about dining being subjective and never pay much attention to what anyone says about that, but the fact that the entertainment venues weren't crowded on YOUR cruise doesn't mean that they weren't crowded on HIS.

Anyway, Lusitanica's review definitely didn't dissuade me from cruising on Epic - I had made that decision a long time ago, and his review just affirmed that it isn't the ship for me. If it is for you, GREAT - enjoy!

Again, Lusitanica: thank you for what I felt was an informative, factual review. And 'fess up - you really did enjoy yourself, didn't you?? [IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif[/IMG][/quote]


I will try to make my point clearer. As many on this thread have said, and I agree, the [B][U]OP had an agenda[/U][/B].

[COLOR=blue][COLOR=black]And I'm sure I'm helping that agenda by commenting on it.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]

[Mr. Luckytoo]

[quote name='CanadianTwosome']Ummmm... this post confuses me. You seem to be referring to the atrium as a perfect example of someone 'disputing a fact if it doesn't agree with their agenda', but in the next sentence, you clearly state that you are speaking about an opinion... Generally I have found that your posts at least follow some sort of logic, but this one just doesn't (or at least I'm not seeing it).

I absolutely agree that facts are quantitative and measurable. They have nothing to do with how something 'feels' or whether someone's use of a particular descriptor is deemed 'appropriate' by someone else. By the same token, there are many posters who would like their opinions to be accepted as fact, but no amount of protesting and repetition will make them so. What I have seen on this thread (and others) is that certain statements were made as 'facts', when they were actually opinions - some even included words like 'feels' or 'seems'. Just because other posters share the same opinions, they are still simply opinions and not facts, and again no amount of repetition will change that.

The issue as I see it is that people believe their opinions. They come to these boards and feel that by sharing them - especially the negative ones - they are helping others. When someone points out that what they are saying is only their opinion and may not apply to every passenger - often stating their differing experience as evidence - they feel like they're being accused of lying, but that is not the case. It's really frustrating when you've had a really fantastic time and loved a ship and someone comes and posts 'facts' that you know are NOT facts, because your perception was entirely different. The reality that two perceptions of the same thing are different is exactly what makes our subsequent beliefs about that thing OPINIONS. What makes it worse is that when the person tries to point that out - that since their experience left them with a different opinion, clearly it cannot be 'fact' - they are accused of being a cheerleader, or lashing out because of their 'blind loyalty' to a cruiseline, as if there is no other explanation for not agreeing with the negative statement. It's easy to [I][B]read[/B][/I] 'that is not A FACT' and [I][B]feel[/B][/I] like it's saying 'that is not TRUE', but these are also completely different statements.

The bottom line is that we all need to acknowledge that we are only experts in our own perceptions. Just because our opinion of something seems so obvious to us that it feels like it should be shared by everyone, that doesn't mean it will - and I feel confident stating my belief that the odds that every person will ever share one common opinion is nil. Now, I think that is an incredibly obvious statement to the point where I would like to call it a fact, but I can't, because I have nothing to back it up with other than my life experience and personal observations. :o[/quote]

Great post, very well thought out and logical.

As for my comments about the atrium I agree with you. When re-reading my prior comments it does seem confusing.

What I meant to say is the Epic HAS an atrium - FACT and cannot be disputed. However when you add the word 'soaring' to the equation then it becomes more muddled. Soaring, to me, implies multiple stories, sometimes up to the top deck. For others 3 stories may meet their definition of soaring. However when I compare a 3 story narrow atrium to those on other ships I've sailed the atrium on the Epic is not as impressive. So the FACT is that the atrium exists but the opinion becomes when using the adjective to quantify the fact.

You wrote that, [COLOR=blue]"The issue as I see it is that people believe their opinions. They come to these boards and feel that by sharing them " [/COLOR][COLOR=black]I agree that for most people their perception becomes their reality. [/COLOR]

Take crowds as an example. It's really difficult to quantify a crowd. I mean if you took the number of people in a certain square foot region, multiplied it by body mass, etc., you could come up with a measureable number but what does that mean? Some people say waiting in line 30 minutes is crowded but for others that's normal...Nevertheless both people percieve their views as factual.

Another example of fact vs. opinion/perception is the bathroom on the Epic.

FACT: the layout is a non-conventional cruiseline design
FACT: the frosted door on the toilet is translucent

OPINION 1. The layout works for me because I can multi-task
OPINION 2. The layout is terrible because of the smell/privacy issues

I've read both opinions 1 & 2 and I can see where both are equally valid. I don't have a problem with either opinion or even saying that for a particular cruise their opinions were in their unique experiences 'facts' for their cruise.

What I do get upset about is certain posters who try and spin their opinions about a fact, like saying something that is tranlucent is in fact opaque.

But overall Canadian - I'm with you. :)

[PokerDave]

Fact: This thread has been the most painful/upsetting thread for me in many years of following CC
Opinion: This thread will cause someone not to go on the epic who otherwise would have and would have thoroughly enjoyed it
Opinion: This thread will cause a number of people who do go on the Epic to question things more closely and take away from their cruise experience on the Epic
Opinion: This thread will also help some people avoid Epic who otherwise would have gone and not enjoyed it
Opinion: On balance, this thread is a net negative for the NCL forum on CC

Opinion: The OP had all of the above in mind before ever setting foot on the Epic