Yet another sad reason we should avoid Jamaica..

[soldham]

Hate to tell you, but I don't see too many Buddist terrorists out there. I'd still be careful in Instanbul. Turkey is getting more "religious" in their government. I think things will change for the worse for gays there. Trust me the Muslims in Europe certainly aren't our friends, either. Remember there are "no" gays in Iran?

 

And just spoke with my friend at the Canadian Consulate in Ankara and he indicates you know not what you speak of. With more and more tourists discovering Turkey they are becoming MORE secular - not less.

 

Having been there 3 times in the last 3 years I would wholeheatedly agree.

[FinlandGuy]

Perhaps not - but as we have seen there are plenty of terrorists out there who are not muslim - in the USA, Canada, Finland, etc.

 

Plenty of terrorists here in Finland? Any examples?

[soldham]

Plenty of terrorists here in Finland? Any examples?

 

My bad - just grabbed a name out of a hat but have just discovered that there has only been 1 terrorism act between 1968 and 2006 and one arrest of 2 people on Sept of this year. Meaning not the best example.

 

Should perhaps have used a better example - my point was simply that terrorism is most assuredly not limited to Muslim people.

 

BTW - was in Helsinki in August - lovely place!

[FinlandGuy]

BTW - was in Helsinki in August - lovely place!

Thanks! Helsinki really shows its best face during the summer, and also on sunny winter days with snow.

[See_again]

Thanks! Helsinki really shows its best face during the summer, and also on sunny winter days with snow.

 

without a doubt :)

[keithm]

And just spoke with my friend at the Canadian Consulate in Ankara and he indicates you know not what you speak of. With more and more tourists discovering Turkey they are becoming MORE secular - not less.

 

Having been there 3 times in the last 3 years I would wholeheatedly agree.

Perhaps the people of Turkey(as you say) are becoming more secular, but more religious conservatives are being elected into their Government. I still stand that the majority of terrorists are Muslim. If you're a woman I'd like to see the equal rights you so seem to brag that Muslims promote. I will agree that there are plenty of so called Christians who are not gay friendly in the least. Still in Egypt there was a "gay" sex ring broken up a few years back. If you were the "top" you were far less punished than if you were the bottom. As a whole Muslims are FAR less tolarant of gays. Try reading some gay press releases and get the facts.

[wthierry]

I dont think its a Muslim problem at all, the bible has just as much violence in it as does the Koran. The problem I think is the level of education of the people following the religion (any religion). In the west we are more educated and can be reasonable in how we handle things. Take into consideration Christians. More people in the South are very anti Gay and call it an abomination than in the North. At the same time, its no secret that the people in the south are less educated than people in the North. Religion in general has always been a way of controlling people, and the leaders bend the followers into doing and believing what they want them to. If Jamaica is very anti gay and Christian, I would assume this is the same problem. A large population of uneducated people and are brainwashed by a religion.

[wthierry]

As a point, search around, there are still people in the USA that actually believe Barack Obama is the Antichrist. Now can any reasonable person really believe something like this? If anyone on this board agrees with this I may just have to give up on anymore rebuttle, LOL....:eek:

[keithm]

I dont think its a Muslim problem at all, the bible has just as much violence in it as does the Koran. The problem I think is the level of education of the people following the religion (any religion). In the west we are more educated and can be reasonable in how we handle things. Take into consideration Christians. More people in the South are very anti Gay and call it an abomination than in the North. At the same time, its no secret that the people in the south are less educated than people in the North. Religion in general has always been a way of controlling people, and the leaders bend the followers into doing and believing what they want them to. If Jamaica is very anti gay and Christian, I would assume this is the same problem. A large population of uneducated people and are brainwashed by a religion.

Yes, you're right abouth the "birtheres" and their moronic friends. You get homophobicpreachers to take a few ambigious phases about homosexuality & turn us into the AntiChrist. There are still alot of homophobes here in the north as well. They just "hide" better. We passed Gay marriage a few years back & NOM(National Organization for Marriage) is stirring things up here in NH. Here's a good way to deal with these jerks..Link to their website & they send you these "E-Mails" to send to your reps locally & in DC. You can "edit" these e-mails as you like. I totally change homophobic e-mails to totally gay positive e-mails & send them to our reps. they have all the rep e-mail addresses..all you do is edit to your liking and "click" send them on their way. Nice to ise our enemy's own resources against them. Surprisingly they never check to see if they've been changed.

[sunworshipperatsea]

Having read the replies I guess it's best to just stay on the ship and treat a Jamaica port day as another sea day. Too bad because I hate to waste the opportunity to see a new place, but I don't need to be hassled in port. I'm just on vacation not a gay crusade.

 

My hubbie and I will be on the NCL Pearl which stops at Ocho Rios next month...what if we took a ship excursion to Dunn's River Falls? Will we still be hassled by locals or will there be security for the protection of the cruise guests? Normally we don't take ship excursions cuz we like to do our own thing.

 

If anyone has taken a Dunn's River ship excursion, how did that go?

[mbsilk]

Having read the replies I guess it's best to just stay on the ship and treat a Jamaica port day as another sea day. Too bad because I hate to waste the opportunity to see a new place, but I don't need to be hassled in port. I'm just on vacation not a gay crusade.

 

My hubbie and I will be on the NCL Pearl which stops at Ocho Rios next month...what if we took a ship excursion to Dunn's River Falls? Will we still be hassled by locals or will there be security for the protection of the cruise guests? Normally we don't take ship excursions cuz we like to do our own thing.

 

If anyone has taken a Dunn's River ship excursion, how did that go?

 

 

in the multitude of countries I have traveled to in my life there are precious few that I hesitate to return to. Jamaica is one of them. I have had experiences similar to those chronicled earlier with aggressive touts insisting I need to buy their drugs, rum, cigars, girls, boys, etc. Each time I have to come to Kingston for work we are invariably delayed at immigration coming into the country and again on departing. I was reluctant to return on a voluntary basis but my spouse really wanted to see the country never having been there before. We took precautions such as traveling with a straight couple. Fortunately nothing more unpleasant than a few moderately aggressive touts at the Falls discolored his experience. That said our future travel plans will probably not include this physically beautiful but also potentially physically deadly destination.

[chuckwagon52]

http://miamiherald.*******.com/gaysouthflorida/2010/12/jamaican-gay-activist-found-stabbed-to-death-reports-j-flag-jamaica-forum-for-lesbians-all-sexuals-gays.html

 

Horrific. And part of an overwhelming pattern.

 

Why cant the review be printed? I`m more afraid of clicking on blind links.

[shepp]

Why cant the review be printed? I`m more afraid of clicking on blind links.

 

For some reason, the link - which I posted over a year ago - has been altered, and is now a dead end, sorry. I'm actually still more afraid of being viciously bashed than picking up a computer virus, but maybe that's because I have a Mac.

[sunworshipperatsea]

Hi mbsilk, thanks for your reply. Sometimes we do travel with friends who are a straight couple, which would have been great for this port, but not this upcoming cruise. We have been to a lot of places where there are aggressive vendors like Thailand, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc. but we didn't feel a threat of violence in any of those places, even as two gay guys travelling together. We'll pretend Ocho Rios is another sea day and enjoy what the ship has to offer. I don't think we'll be alone in that day either. Anyway, we picked this cruise because the timing was right, not for the ports. One of the other stops is Cozumel, which we aren't so keen on either, so we are thinking about taking a Mexican cooking class that day as we have an interest in the cuisine. The other port is Grand Cayman - not sure what we will do there, but we make our own fun, wherever we are. Thanks again.

[SantaCruiser]

This is the most homophobic country in the Western Hemisphere.

[commodoredave]

Hi mbsilk, thanks for your reply. Sometimes we do travel with friends who are a straight couple, which would have been great for this port, but not this upcoming cruise. We have been to a lot of places where there are aggressive vendors like Thailand, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc. but we didn't feel a threat of violence in any of those places, even as two gay guys travelling together. We'll pretend Ocho Rios is another sea day and enjoy what the ship has to offer. I don't think we'll be alone in that day either. Anyway, we picked this cruise because the timing was right, not for the ports. One of the other stops is Cozumel, which we aren't so keen on either, so we are thinking about taking a Mexican cooking class that day as we have an interest in the cuisine. The other port is Grand Cayman - not sure what we will do there, but we make our own fun, wherever we are. Thanks again.

 

Re: Grand Cayman. Take the excursion to Stingray city and swim with these marvelous sea creatures. There is also good jewelry and camera shopping in George Town. Also some decent bars and restaurants, including Harvey Nicks. And some great snorkelling too. My nephew lives there and we visit every year or so. Not a cheap place, but nice and accommodating of everyone regardless of orientation.

[satxdiver]

Hi mbsilk, thanks for your reply. Sometimes we do travel with friends who are a straight couple, which would have been great for this port, but not this upcoming cruise. We have been to a lot of places where there are aggressive vendors like Thailand, Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc. but we didn't feel a threat of violence in any of those places, even as two gay guys travelling together. We'll pretend Ocho Rios is another sea day and enjoy what the ship has to offer. I don't think we'll be alone in that day either. Anyway, we picked this cruise because the timing was right, not for the ports. One of the other stops is Cozumel, which we aren't so keen on either, so we are thinking about taking a Mexican cooking class that day as we have an interest in the cuisine. The other port is Grand Cayman - not sure what we will do there, but we make our own fun, wherever we are. Thanks again.

 

We stayed on the ship in Jamaica and it was almost like a sea day with all the pax that stayed on board. You will not be alone. I have done the cooking class in Cozumel and had a great time but then I like to cook. They kept us supplied with adult beverages all through the class plus I picked up some good pointers that I use now.

 

Have fun on your cruise.

[sunworshipperatsea]

Hi commodoredave, thanks for your suggestions. We did the stingrays on a previous visit. It was a great experience, but not sure we need to do it again. We enjoy snorkelling though, so I'm looking into that. I was also wondering if there were any resorts that take cruise passengers for the day in Grand Cayman? A lounge chair, small seafood restaurant and an uncrowded beach is all we need. We found one like that in Roatan and it was bliss. We'll definitely look into the shops as well, I've heard that there is great shopping to be had in George Town.

 

Are you enjoying our first winter storm this morning?

[sunworshipperatsea]

Thanks for your comments about the cooking class. I think I will book it. We love to cook and enjoy a variety of world cuisines so I think it will be fun and still leaves us the rest of the afternoon free for whatever else we want to do. This will include picking up some pomegranate tequila, which we can't get anywhere in Canada, although in Cozumel it was way more expensive than it was in Cabo San Lucas last time we were there.

[commodoredave]

Hi commodoredave, thanks for your suggestions. We did the stingrays on a previous visit. It was a great experience, but not sure we need to do it again. We enjoy snorkelling though, so I'm looking into that. I was also wondering if there were any resorts that take cruise passengers for the day in Grand Cayman? A lounge chair, small seafood restaurant and an uncrowded beach is all we need. We found one like that in Roatan and it was bliss. We'll definitely look into the shops as well, I've heard that there is great shopping to be had in George Town.

 

Are you enjoying our first winter storm this morning?

 

The storm seems to have missed us today in downtown Toronto. But I suspect we will get some flying fluffy stuff before the week is out.

Seven Mile Beach in Cayman is lovely, but I'm not sure which hotels accept guests from outside of the resort. I'll check with my nephew to see what advice he has. It may take a few days as he is currently travelling for the holidays.

[sunworshipperatsea]

Thanks, that would be great. We still have a month before we leave, so plenty of time.

[commodoredave]

Thanks, that would be great. We still have a month before we leave, so plenty of time.

 

Here is what my nephew who lives in Cayman says:

 

"I would highly recommend Governor's Beach. They can take a bus straight up from the harbour, it will take about 10 minutes to get there. Its a great beach on Seven Mile and some of the best snorkelling that side of the island. If they swim directly out about 150 yards to the furthest swimming buoy they will find a huge coral reef teeming with life, and will often have a bunch of snorkellers there also. Across the street from the beach is a parade of shops and restaurants. I would recommend though that they cross the street and walk to the right, and then around directly behind the shop fronts to a hotel called Sunshine Suites http://www.sunshinesuites.com/ They have fantastic food. The parade includes an american style sports bar called Legendz, a sushi bar called Yoshi's (though it may not be open till later) and Eats Cafe which is a diner that serves breakfast and lunch. There is also Captain Marvin's boat tours that take you to Stingray City at around 10am and 1pm each day, and a gift store also. Oh, and a liquor store. If they head left across the street to Governors Sq, there is a TCBY, a cafe and a host of other stores and restaurants, including Prime, a Brazilian Steakhouse where we are having brunch tomorrow!"

[shepp]

Just a hopeful note that gets this thread back on topic: The newly elected Prime Minister of Jamaica, Portia Simpson, has unequivocally supported government protection of LGBT rights. So even though homophobia may continue to run rife on the island, someday soonish it may not be countenanced by the government. We can hope.

 

Now if only we could get Ms. Simpson to run in the GOP primary in Iowa...

[soldham]

Perhaps the people of Turkey(as you say) are becoming more secular, but more religious conservatives are being elected into their Government. I still stand that the majority of terrorists are Muslim. If you're a woman I'd like to see the equal rights you so seem to brag that Muslims promote. I will agree that there are plenty of so called Christians who are not gay friendly in the least. Still in Egypt there was a "gay" sex ring broken up a few years back. If you were the "top" you were far less punished than if you were the bottom. As a whole Muslims are FAR less tolarant of gays. Try reading some gay press releases and get the facts.

 

It's a new year and I don't want to start fighting again about this but two things to mention: Seems to me alot more religious conservatives are being elected into govenment in the US right now as well but that hardly means you should be avoiding the States or that your life is at risk as a gay person; and it was the blanket statment of "Trust me - the Muslims in Europe....." that bothered me.

 

Anyway - Happy New Year and the best for 2012.

[keithm]

It's a new year and I don't want to start fighting again about this but two things to mention: Seems to me alot more religious conservatives are being elected into govenment in the US right now as well but that hardly means you should be avoiding the States or that your life is at risk as a gay person; and it was the blanket statment of "Trust me - the Muslims in Europe....." that bothered me.

 

Anyway - Happy New Year and the best for 2012.

I find that many religions harbor ill will towards gays, but Muslims seem to be more extreme.

I mean, come on, when was the last time a Christian was in the news for stoning a person. How many buddists do you know who execute women for infidelity(actual or supposed) How are women looked upon in the Muslim world as a whole?? Either you are amazingly ignorant of what goes on, or you quietly support it!