Booking With US Sites & US TA's

[mummsie]

There was actually an article about this in our Sunday paper yesterday. - mummsie

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

I believe that this situation is mostly to do with currency exchange rates.

 

Think about this. Two people in Australia - today. One books a cruise via the Internet with an American TA and the second one books the same cruise at a street level Ozzie TA. The first pays in US dollars and the second pays in Aussie dollars. The first one eventually pays in Aussie dollars when his/her credit card company convert the USD amount to AUD

 

The first one now has a final cost in AUD , as the second one already had. They WILL be different. Why?? Because the first purchaser's payment in USD will have been converted to AUD AT TODAY'S EXCHANGE RATE charged to their credit card. The second one has also unknowingly had their AUD converted to USD BEFORE the purchase was even made -- but the question is, what was the exchange rate of that conversion (Remember - the exchange rate conversion has already been carried out for this purchase before the purchase was even made - think about it! )

 

Todays USD to AUD conversion will be a lot different to an AUD to USD conversion based on an exchange rate which may be 6 or more months old. The glossy brochures which quote prices in AUD were calculated long ago (taking into account exchange rates) - and printed long ago.

 

So - when you pay in AUD TODAY - you are not getting the currently good USD/AUD exchange rate - rather something ( a bad one) that existed some time ago

 

 

Barry

 

If what you are saying is true then they have based our Asia/Alaska cruise on 50cAu to $1.00 US. We booked our cruise the week they came out. I got quotes from an online US TA and a land based AU TA. The Au price was more than double the US TA price. How does that equate with your calculations when the exchange rate at the time was 88c in the US dollar. They are just simply ripping us off big time.

[LuckiePuris]

Yes we can book on the cruise companies web sites directly, however it is not the cheap rates that the US T/A are getting.

 

If you book on the RCI Australia page as you describe, the price will typically be the same as if you booked through an Australian travel agent.

 

Thanks everyone for your response! :)

[spongerob]

The problems sometimes is not in the laws themselves, but how they are interpreted after being written. So take this quote from the Travel Agents Act (1985, ammended Jun 24 2009)

 

A person shall not, if he knows that another person is carrying

on business as a travel agent in contravention of section 7 (1)

or (2), do an act which assists and is intended by him to assist

the other person so to carry on business.

 

One interpretation of this is that RCI in America cannot knowingly accept a booking from Australia made through its US website since that might violate federal and territorial laws governing trade and competitive practices. This also might be challenged by existing travel agents in Australia as an unjust business practice (extreme discounting) which whether true or not, requires a court appearance and the costs involved.

[The_Big_M]

That's an interesting suggestion, but the Travel Agents Acts are state based rather than federal, and more importantly this act is referring to entities under its jurisdiction.

 

Thus, the key requirement of that clause are the references to 7(1) and (2). However, they would not be met. They are :

(1) Subject to this Act, a person shall not carry on business as a travel agent unless the person is the holder of a licence.

Penalty: a fine of $50 000 or 12 months’ imprisonment or both, with a minimum fine of $5 000 in the case of a second or subsequent offence.

(2) Subject to this Act, a person shall not carry on business as a travel agent in partnership with a person who is not the holder of a licence.

Penalty: a fine of $50 000 or 12 months’ imprisonment or both, with a minimum fine of $5 000 in the case of a second or subsequent offence.

 

Neither of these clauses are met by such a scenario since none of the foreign owned/operated agents, even though licenced, are operating in or in partnership with an Australian agent. (If they did then there would be a breach.)

 

Another way to look at is they are not carrying on business within the jurisdiction of WA (in the case of your quoted example), so do not fall within the scope.

[rkmw]

i saw this on the roll call on the Diamond to Sydney so i thoght i'd copy it

 

DO NOT worry about the US agent thing, another scare tactic to try and dissuade us Ozzies from nabbing a bargain in the USA..we just booked

the South America cruise, LESS THAN half what they are quoting us here and at other agents..we paid for it already to make sure of the good exchange rate deals. There are about 30 cabins booked thru this so far...the cruise line would be silly to start refusing us booking this way...work it out on those cabins at around quarter of a million dollars for those cabins alone...and they

stand to lose a LOT of $$$ from we who book direct in the USA.....

 

rkmw

[silverwillow]

Spongebob is this really the law you are basing your arguments on?

 

The section you have quoted prohibits persons from aiding travel agents acting without a license in 'Western Australia'. Not really relavant to international trade argreements between our federal Govt and offshore cruise co's.

[lilly4350]

Has anyone tried to take a quoted US TA price to their TA in Aus (particularly one who guarantees to match price) and see if they can get the same price here? We did this with our Alaska cruise and believe that we were given a fairly similar price, allowing for exchange rates at the time.

 

When we went to book our Mexican cruise, we had dialogue with an on line US TA who assured us that they were able to sell to us and that there would be no problems. Ultimately we booked with an Aus on line TA, who gave us all the prices in US$ and then it was converted at payment time.

[shieldsboy]

The "overcharging" here compared to US prices also applies to the UK.

 

I have recently had a UK quote for 2000 pounds (approx $A 3800) and the Australian TA quote was $7,600 for the same cabin on the same cruise!

 

We are really ripped off here, aren't we.

 

I aways advise new cruisers to look further afield as I believe P & O Australia (and, sadly, the Rhapsody of the Seas) are very much overpriced.

 

I always divide the total price by number of nights to get a comparison.

[LuckiePuris]

The "overcharging" here compared to US prices also applies to the UK.

 

I have recently had a UK quote for 2000 pounds (approx $A 3800) and the Australian TA quote was $7,600 for the same cabin on the same cruise!

 

We are really ripped off here, aren't we.

 

I aways advise new cruisers to look further afield as I believe P & O Australia (and, sadly, the Rhapsody of the Seas) are very much overpriced.

 

I always divide the total price by number of nights to get a comparison.

 

I too divide the price by the number of nights to work out if it is a good deal or not.

 

We have often found P&O and RCI cruises for less than $100 day which is a good deal.

 

But I think the issue is more with cruises departing from a non Australian / New Zealand port. We can get some good deals for local cruises but searching for bargain cruises in other areas of the world is now more difficult.

[shieldsboy]

I too divide the price by the number of nights to work out if it is a good deal or not.

 

We have often found P&O and RCI cruises for less than $100 day which is a good deal.

 

But I think the issue is more with cruises departing from a non Australian / New Zealand port. We can get some good deals for local cruises but searching for bargain cruises in other areas of the world is now more difficult.

 

Perhaps I should have added to my comments that I also make sure I'm comparing likes with likes - for instance, I have seen many P & O Australia adverts that look good but when you open them up you find the price quoted is for a 4 berth cabin which I would not buy. And often when you see the twin cabin prices they are much, much higher.

 

But I agree the issue is the attempt by the local market to limit "free trade", and my comments were made to add to the information showing how much we may miss out in terms of value for money.

 

P and O also benefit from being seen as the Aussie Company with many cruisers feeling "safe" cruising with them, in the same way as Qantas benefits from the local market. And yet I haven't seen any attempts to limit from whom we can buy our air tickets (not that I am suggesting the airline industry is "pure"!).

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

Perhaps I should have added to my comments that I also make sure I'm comparing likes with likes - for instance, I have seen many P & O Australia adverts that look good but when you open them up you find the price quoted is for a 4 berth cabin which I would not buy. And often when you see the twin cabin prices they are much, much higher.

 

But I agree the issue is the attempt by the local market to limit "free trade", and my comments were made to add to the information showing how much we may miss out in terms of value for money.

 

P and O also benefit from being seen as the Aussie Company with many cruisers feeling "safe" cruising with them, in the same way as Qantas benefits from the local market. And yet I haven't seen any attempts to limit from whom we can buy our air tickets (not that I am suggesting the airline industry is "pure"!).

 

You have a good point regarding the Airline Companies.

 

If the restrictions on Aussies booking with US TA's were due to our Government imposing restrictions then why are we allowed to book with overseas airlines on the internet with no problems?

 

This is a restriction that the cruise companies have imposed on the TA's involved due to pressure from Australian TA's.

 

I for one, cannot fathom their reasoning. What does it matter where they get the cruisers? If Australians are willing to pay for the airfare to be able to travel on the American Ships - which are newer, and by all accounts better than the Australian hand-me-downs - why can't we get the same deals that Americans are experiencing?

 

Do they have such little regard for our intelligence to think that we only want to travel out of Australia and in close proximity to Australia. We are one of the best travelling countries in the world. We have the money and we get minimum 4 weeks paid holiday per year on average.

 

Give us the same deals here and we won't have to go overseas to book.

[The_Big_M]

If the restrictions on Aussies booking with US TA's were due to our Government imposing restrictions then why are we allowed to book with overseas airlines on the internet with no problems?

 

This is a restriction that the cruise companies have imposed on the TA's involved due to pressure from Australian TA's.

 

I do see them as somewhat comparable. While you can book with the airlines/agents overseas, the airlines themselves have different pricing depending on the market even though you are travelling similarly. For example, a few months back returns from Syd-London were still around $1800, whereas you could return Lon-Syd for the equivalent of just over $1000. They had offered a local special to encourage buyers from there. Conversely, earlier this year, V Australia pricing was lower from Syd-LA than the reverse LA-SYD, likely as with the low Australian dollar making the special not look so good if they were to be made comparable. In both cases, it's the supplier (airline/cruise line) that determines pricing..

 

As shown by articles, local TAs are complaining about losing out bookings but I don't think they're the driver of the differential pricing; it's more that the cruise lines see an opportunity to charge more and are taking advantage of it.

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

I do see them as somewhat comparable. While you can book with the airlines/agents overseas, the airlines themselves have different pricing depending on the market even though you are travelling similarly. For example, a few months back returns from Syd-London were still around $1800, whereas you could return Lon-Syd for the equivalent of just over $1000. They had offered a local special to encourage buyers from there. Conversely, earlier this year, V Australia pricing was lower from Syd-LA than the reverse LA-SYD, likely as with the low Australian dollar making the special not look so good if they were to be made comparable. In both cases, it's the supplier (airline/cruise line) that determines pricing..

 

As shown by articles, local TAs are complaining about losing out bookings but I don't think they're the driver of the differential pricing; it's more that the cruise lines see an opportunity to charge more and are taking advantage of it.

 

That might be so, however, I was basing my comment on the flights that I booked direct with Southwest and Delta. The prices I paid were the American prices direct with the airlines themselves. There was no discrimination on nationality. Which makes me think they don't care who puts their bums on the seats, so long as there are bums there. All bums are equal (so to speak:)) in how much they pay.

 

This is how it should be with the cruise industry. If they are willing to give a price to an American or Canadian why not the same price for an Australian, New Zealander or Pommie. Because they are ripping us off, that's why.

[The_Big_M]

That might be so' date=' however, I was basing my comment on the flights that I booked direct with Southwest and Delta. The prices I paid were the American prices direct with the airlines themselves. There was no discrimination on nationality. [/quote']

 

Yes, domestic flights don't have such variability in pricing, but that's the same with domestic cruises e.g. Captain cook cruises in Adelaide and Fiji. There aren't many international bookings so there's less benefit/point to differential pricing between nationalities.

[NSWP]

I have rebooked the South American cruise below in my signature with a large UK Cruise agent, (hopefully safe!) for GBP2000 (pounds) each, (AU$4000) compared to the lowest price available within OZ of AU$5500 quoted by one of the largest on line t/a's in OZ. Now for a couple that is a saving of AU$3000, there is the air fare saved.

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

I have rebooked the South American cruise below in my signature with a large UK Cruise agent, (hopefully safe!) for GBP2000 (pounds) each, (AU$4000) compared to the lowest price available within OZ of AU$5500 quoted by one of the largest on line t/a's in OZ. Now for a couple that is a saving of AU$3000, there is the air fare saved.

 

Good on ya Les! :D Might need to find out which one for the future if things don't change.........

[windsor26]

To carry the anomolies further I understand that even WITHIN USA you are quoted a different price depending in which state you live? WHY???

[MMDown Under]

The customer is always right.

 

I've just made an executive decision not to make a non refundable advance deposit of $350 pp for 4 people, plus insurance, for a 2010 TA cruise.

 

And yes, the Australian cruise cost was much higher than I would have paid via a US On Line Travel Agent.

 

Would I have liked to have gone on the cruise - sure! In fact, I talked another couple into coming with us.

 

However, I don't HAVE to go.

 

After a lifetime of travel, I know there will be another fairer offer just around the corner. It might be a cruise, or it might not, but I will travel overseas nevertheless.

[aussiedisneyfan]

It is not just the US that have state based prices. We were on a P&O cruise a few years back and there were heaps of people from SA. We discovered that there had be a big promotion on and they got really good rates that were only available to SAers. Also sometimes see P&O cruises advertised with free airfare but then that is only from certain departures too, so in effect that is the same sort of thing.

 

US also sometimes has separate pricing for seniors, military, teachers, fire brigade and probably others.

[The_Big_M]

To carry the anomolies further I understand that even WITHIN USA you are quoted a different price depending in which state you live? WHY???

 

It's a similar situation as mentioned on the previous page. They don't have different prices for every state, but may offer special pricing to one or many states at a time. Some cruises may not have any state specials (the same as prices being globally the same).

[sherri3802]

Hi Eileen,

 

Yes it was an Aus TA site but none of the major TA's. I had never heard of this TA but only stumbled across their page while doing a search for Rhapsody blogs.

 

I have never booked a cruise through a US agent and was wondering before I considered it, if anyone has had the experience of being refused boarding.

 

Like you said though, they know you are Australian as you hold a Australian passport.

 

Any queries, feel free to email :)

 

luckie_puris@yahoo.com.au

 

I actually came back into this messageboard to ask the same question or to see if anyone else had raised it.

The same claim was made in an article in the Herald-sun, which is one of the biggest daily newspapers in Australia. It was in the paper a few days to a week ago and had a title something like "Warning about online cruise bookings." The article claimed that there were agreements between nations that agents would only book their own nationals. And that some overseas online booking agencies (it named them) were actively recruiting people in Aust, even providing special phone numbers etc, but that it was risky to book throuhg them as the cruise ships reserved the right to refuse boarding to anyone they found was not a US citizen but had booked through a US agency.

I am guessing the same thing would apply if you booked through a UK agency.

This has unnerved me a bit as i was watching cruise prices, but now I am a bit scared to consider a US agency.

I got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that booking into one of the aussie based ships would be riskier than booking a ship visited here but worked in US dollars.

 

I suppose the only thing is that newspapers get their news from somewhere and maybe the paper took it from a travel agent site where they might have a vested interest.

Have there actually been any cases where someone has been refused their cruise and no refund of the fare paid?

That, I think, is the critical issue.

[newfarmers]

we booked through an online us ta a couple of years back and had no issues boarding. no where in the HAL docs we were mailed was the ta identified.

 

in these days of online print yourself ticketing, how on earth are the checkin agents going to be able to identify who you booked with. yes, very possibly it's in their computer system but checkin is usually bedlam x 10 and the last thing they'd be looking to do would be deny boarding to someone who has paid the dollars just like everyone else.

 

like has been said many times through this thread, this is a beat-up between RCCL/Carnival and whatever the Oz travel agent association is called to try and scare us poor ripped off punters into spending too many of our hard earned dollars here instead of saving from a few hundred to a few thousand of them and booking offshore.

 

I'll just say one thing to them all - bugger off!! you want my money then give me the best deal here instead of me so easily being able to see I can get a better deal a few clicks away on the internet.

 

I think they've shot themselves in their collective feet with this story. a lot of people weren't aware what a premium we pay here. possibly now people who may have just accepted the prices they are quoted will start saying to their tas "I can get a better price than that, can you match it?"

 

stranger things have happened

[h & m]

we booked through an online us ta a couple of years back and had no issues boarding. no where in the HAL docs we were mailed was the ta identified.

 

in these days of online print yourself ticketing, how on earth are the checkin agents going to be able to identify who you booked with. yes, very possibly it's in their computer system but checkin is usually bedlam x 10 and the last thing they'd be looking to do would be deny boarding to someone who has paid the dollars just like everyone else.

 

like has been said many times through this thread, this is a beat-up between RCCL/Carnival and whatever the Oz travel agent association is called to try and scare us poor ripped off punters into spending too many of our hard earned dollars here instead of saving from a few hundred to a few thousand of them and booking offshore.

 

I'll just say one thing to them all - bugger off!! you want my money then give me the best deal here instead of me so easily being able to see I can get a better deal a few clicks away on the internet.

 

I think they've shot themselves in their collective feet with this story. a lot of people weren't aware what a premium we pay here. possibly now people who may have just accepted the prices they are quoted will start saying to their tas "I can get a better price than that, can you match it?"

 

stranger things have happened

 

Well said - I believe the story was in major papers all over Australia, and may have got others thinking about booking overseas.

 

In the last few months I have booked 3 cruises through the US.

 

Our Princess cruise for 2011 was not available on the Aussie website, so apart from the (huge) price difference, we got to select the cabin we wanted, and used US Future Cruise Credits (cost $200 on board), get back the $200 as OBC, and also gave us a free $200 deposit.

 

the Carnival cruise I booked through the US, within 24 hours I had an email from Carnival welcoming us as Australians and alerting us to Visa requirements, so the company had no issue with this reservation.

[NSWP]

All I can say again is a month or so ago I tried to book my South American Star Princess cruise in 2011 with one of the biggest US on line 't/a's, the reply I got back from their Chairman was 'Princess will not permit us to make reservations passengers other than US or Canadian citizens.'

 

Someone is playing ducks and drakes.