Cruises to Cuba?

[Lizzie1213]

I would love to go to Cuba!!

[Bearnaise]

I am a dual US/Canadian citizen and my US birth is noted on my passport. Nothing was said about it.

I'm assuming you didn't pass through the U.S. on the way back to Canada. As a dual citizen you'd certainly be subject to OFAC regulations concerning Cuba. When I went, via Toronto, we had no problems as U.S. citizens landing back in Canada on our Cubana Airlines flight from Havana. It was only when we went through U.S. Customs/Immigration in Toronto before boarding our flight home to LAX that the fun began :D

[callmedeb]

I just got back from an amazing week in Cuba (Varadero) yesterday!

 

At the end of the Varadero peninsula they are builing a huge marina complex in anticipation of Americans being able to visit Cuba more freely. It is only 90 miles from Key West... They are also broadening the small airport in Varadero for the same reason (the international airport is about 25 minutes outside Varadero in Matanza).

 

I welcome the expanded opportunities for the Cuban people. It has been three years since I last visited Varadero (Cayo Largo, Cayo Coco and Cayo Santa Maria (Santa Clara)the other years) and the changes are significant since restrictions on owning your own business have been lifted.

 

The selfish part of me want's Cuba left the way it is, great people, little/no crime against tourists, not commercial at all. I just hope they don't lose that with the influx.

 

Cheers,

 

Deb

(this was my 7th trip to Cuba)

[sail7seas]

I'm assuming you didn't pass through the U.S. on the way back to Canada. As a dual citizen you'd certainly be subject to OFAC regulations concerning Cuba. When I went, via Toronto, we had no problems as U.S. citizens landing back in Canada on our Cubana Airlines flight from Havana. It was only when we went through U.S. Customs/Immigration in Toronto before boarding our flight home to LAX that the fun began :D

 

 

Oooooh, please share with us.

I'm so interested to read how these situations are handled.

[sapper1]

I'm assuming you didn't pass through the U.S. on the way back to Canada. As a dual citizen you'd certainly be subject to OFAC regulations concerning Cuba. When I went, via Toronto, we had no problems as U.S. citizens landing back in Canada on our Cubana Airlines flight from Havana. It was only when we went through U.S. Customs/Immigration in Toronto before boarding our flight home to LAX that the fun began :D

We flew from Halifax-Varadero-Halifax----no US involvement as I live in Canada. My family is all Canadian and I only lived in the states for the first two weeks of my life. I am also a Canadian citizen and as such, am allowed to visit Cuba.

My father was in the states for a summer job when he was in university and that is when I was born. I joke that I could have been their "anchor baby":D

[sapper1]

I just got back from an amazing week in Cuba (Varadero) yesterday!

 

At the end of the Varadero peninsula they are builing a huge marina complex in anticipation of Americans being able to visit Cuba more freely. It is only 90 miles from Key West... They are also broadening the small airport in Varadero for the same reason (the international airport is about 25 minutes outside Varadero in Matanza).

 

I welcome the expanded opportunities for the Cuban people. It has been three years since I last visited Varadero (Cayo Largo, Cayo Coco and Cayo Santa Maria (Santa Clara)the other years) and the changes are significant since restrictions on owning your own business have been lifted.

 

The selfish part of me want's Cuba left the way it is, great people, little/no crime against tourists, not commercial at all. I just hope they don't lose that with the influx.

 

Cheers,

 

Deb

(this was my 7th trip to Cuba)

Isn't that the most gorgeous marina? We stopped by for a drink on the terrace while out for a walk one day. We also admired all those lovely catamarans they have for taking snorkeling expeditions out. They were so huge and they all looked brand new.

 

We have been twice and would go back again but we have decided that we prefer cruising vacations, where the scenery changes every day, over staying in the same spot for a week.

[Bearnaise]

Oooooh, please share with us.

I'm so interested to read how these situations are handled.

A little background first:

 

We were traveling as part of a small group, our trip arranged by Scubacan, a Canadian travel agency that promised painless dive trips to Cuba for Americans. At the time we booked the trip, the U.S. government pretty much "looked the other way" as far as illicit travel to Cuba. While it was technically in violation of OFAC regulations, there was absolutely no system in place to process the violations. No enforcement = no problem.

 

The "loophole" that Scubacan exploited was the reality that it's not illegal for an American to visit Cuba per se, it's illegal for an American to spend money in Cuba, i.e. "trading with the enemy". No trade, no crime. The idea was, we pay the Canadians, which is legal. The Canadians arrange a "fully sponsored" trip with some Cuban authority (we had a xeroxed letterhead from a Cuban agency) and ostensibly, after we arrive on the island, all our expenses are prepaid thus we don't need to spend any money in Cuba. It sounded good for a while, but about a month before our trip, the State Department got wind and issued a bulletin expressly disallowing this exact type of trip.

 

However, Scubacan still insisted it was quasi-legal enough that, coupled with the lack of enforcement, we would have no problem continuing with our planned trip and, if we were caught, they had a lawyer on retainer to deal with the repercussions at their expense. Sounds good, right? So we went and had an interesting and terrific time, not Varadero at all, which is just another Cancun IMO, but a few nights in Havana followed by an island tour and diving at several spots on the south side, including a stay (and diving) at the Bay of Pigs, then more time in Havana.

 

Upon returning to the U.S., the standard customs declaration form requires one to declare the countries one visited before returning to the U.S. It is signed under penalty of perjury. Most Americans who travel there simply omit Cuba as one of the countries, listing only the "gateway" country they used as a hub, i.e. Canada, Jamaica, Mexico, or the Cayman Islands to name a few. However, being an attorney, lying under penalty of perjury is never a good idea, so I decided to come clean. Much better to risk violating an unenforced regulation than committing a felony and getting disbarred. For the record, most of our group decided to lie and claim they were in Canada the entire time, notwithstanding they had warm water dive gear and clothing and there was snow on the ground at the Toronto Airport. But the lie worked for them and they breezed through immigration.

 

When the customs officer saw Cuba on my declaration, however, he sent me immediately to secondary inspection where two officers questioned me about the trip, viewed my documentation, rifled through all my luggage (looking for contraband cigars, most likely) and gave me a stern lecture. They also "seized my passport", but returned it after my search/interrogation/lecture was over. I got my two cents in, for what it was worth, accusing them of un-American activities by restricting my right to travel to a country that is far more benign than China and other U.S. "non-enemies". Passport back in hand, I managed to board my flight back to the U.S., barely making it after the lengthy secondary inspection process.

 

Back in the U.S., I fully expected the matter to go away. I had heard that the U.S. might flag my passport and subject me to harrassment on future returns to the U.S., but I've done plenty of traveling since and have never been back to secondary inspection to date. I also had no problem renewing my passport. No problem, right?

 

I should mention that my trip was in February of 2002, a handful of months after 9/11 and also a presidential election year. In 2003, a little while after the inauguration of the new president who owed a great deal of his "victory" in a very close election to a certain state inhabited by many Cuban-Americans, besides tightening regulations making it more difficult for any Americans to visit the island, he also decided to start enforcing sanctions as a quid quo pro. To accomplish this, he pulled two judges that formerly heard mining cases and assigned them to start processing and hearing cases against the backlog of previous Cuba violators, including yours truly.

 

So, well over a year after returning from my trip, I was sort of surprised to find a certified letter from OFAC accusing me of violating the regulations and demanding a response. In the meantime, unfortunately, Scubacan had gone out of business. It turns out that, post-9/11, business had dropped off dramatically and our group was actually the last group of Americans they sent to Cuba before going under. So much for their promise of free representation.

 

The guy who had arranged for our group to travel there, and who also had received a certified letter, managed to track down the Chicago attorney that Scubacan had used. The attorney, for $500, easily negotiated a settlement with OFAC for the standard $2,000. As I understood it, first-time violators were always offered the settlement in lieu of the $7,500 penalty that could otherwise be imposed. As the only venue for hearing cases was in Washington D.C. and it would cost significantly to travel there and fight the case, paying the $2,000 fine was the only real alternative. It basically turned my $1,299 trip into a $3,799 trip (including the attorneys fees), but I still felt it was worth it for the unique experience.

 

Now that the former president is gone, I doubt enforcing the regulations is as much a priority. I'd love to return to the island, especially before there's a McDonalds and Starbucks on every corner, but will wait until it's more than "quasi-legal" before making a second visit. As I understand it now, it will be much easier to get permission for cultural or educational travel, supposedly precluding vacations to Varadero, but I can't believe it would be too hard to arrange something more to my liking, such as assessing the impact of invasive lionfish on formerly healthy coral reefs, which would require me to dive all day and count lionfish before indulging in a happy hour of Hemingway-style daiquiris and cigars and a lobster dinner.

 

(Ironically, while McDonalds and Starbucks were thankfully absent from my first visit, I did notice that some patently American brands like Coca-Cola and Marlboro were blatantly available - how does that work?)

[wadethegringo]

We hope to take a cruise out of Cozumel next year that stops in Cuba and over nights for two days.... All Inclusive.

We are Americans living in Belize. With an A.I.you dont have to spend any $$ off the ship, So the US Tresury department should not care.

[iancal]

Now I know why Cuban customs do not actually place a stamp in passports! I cannot imagine having this type of travel/spending restriction.

[Bearnaise]

We hope to take a cruise out of Cozumel next year that stops in Cuba and over nights for two days.... All Inclusive.

We are Americans living in Belize. With an A.I.you dont have to spend any $$ off the ship, So the US Tresury department should not care.

Unfortunately, you pay the ship and the ship pays port fees, etc., to Cuba, so that yes, indirectly, you are spending money on the island. The regulations presume that merely by traveling to the island, you have spent money there. If you can't prove you didn't, well...

 

What about sailing there and not getting off the boat? Consider this story, copied from another site:

 

"Kip (73) and Patrick (58) Taylor of Michigan sailed to Cuba in 1996. Knowing that U.S. law prohibited spending money in Cuba, the Taylors stocked their sailboat with enough provisions to last for the duration of their three-month trip. While sailing back to Florida, their boat was caught in a storm and struck by lightning, destroying their mast. After being rescued by the Cuban Coast Guard, the boat was towed back to Cuba. When the Taylors applied to the U.S. Treasury Department for permission to repair it, they were told to abandon their boat and leave their two dogs in Cuba. After weeks of attempting to negotiate, and unwilling to leave behind their dogs and a sailboat worth more than the costs of repairs, the Taylors fixed their boat mostly by themselves and with the help of visiting sailors who donated parts.

 

Upon their return to the U.S., the Taylors faced a civil charges from OFAC for disclosing that they gave a band-aid to a Cuban cook who had hurt his finger. They were charged with providing "nursing services to a Cuban national," which is forbidden under the embargo. For the next four and a half years, the Taylors, who are on a fixed income, were unsuccessful in requesting a hearing or a reduction of the penalty. In 2001, the government froze Patrick Taylor's tax refund, which he needed to pay for urgent medical care, and applied it to his fine. In 2003, the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed suit claiming that the Taylors were unfairly penalized under the Cuba embargo regulations. Lawyers also say the two were not informed of their Fifth Amendment rights which protect them from self incrimination. The suit was eventually settled."

[cruisemom42]

The above posts illustrate so well why I haven't been to Cuba yet, even though I really want to go. I am at heart a law-abider and even though I am not one to quail in the face of travel to places like Lebanon or Syria, I just don't want or need the hassle of breaking the law. In my position it would not be a good thing to have on my "permanent record".

 

It just eats me up, though, that we are hostages of this silly policy.

[Bearnaise]

Sorry, I mis-remembered. The amount of the "penalty" was only $1,000.00, not $2000.00.

 

I too am at heart a law abider, at least for serious laws. I do break vehicular laws such as speeding quite often, however, because the slim chances of and minor penalties for getting caught make it worth the risk and I personally believe the speed limits are set too low. Violations of the vehicular laws are infractions, which do go on a permanent record.

 

Breaking the OFAC regulations, at least in my case, resulted in a civil penalty, not a criminal fine. I view it as no more harmful to my permanent record than a penalty for paying taxes late, not as bad as a speeding ticket even though the amount may be higher. That's not to say it might not come back to haunt me if I decided to run for President, or even to attempt getting any sort of security clearance, but I still view it as a form of civil disobedience. I know in my heart that the laws regarding travel to Cuba are wrong, they're hypocritical in that we allow travel to regimes far more repressive than Castro's, they're anti-business because they keep an important market closed to American investment, and they're only still on the books because of purely political motivations. I also believe that, as an American citizen with all the inherent and granted rights under our Constitution, I shouldn't be banned from traveling where I like without a damn good reason. Political BS is not such a good reason in my opinion. Therefore, besides going to experience a different culture and all the bounties that the island provides, my traveling was a form of civil disobedience. I went, I paid the price, and now I can spread the word that Americans are there, [some] American products are there, and it's otherwise flooded with Canadians and Europeans and other world tourists who live in countries where their citizens are allowed at least one freedom we don't have.

[wilsonqbc]

I do know that all flights from Canada going to Cuba, the passenger lists are sent to the US state department. with Passport info, whether they do anything about it, well thats another thing.

 

We love going to Cuba, friendly, safe, good resorts (if you take a 5 star) but at times some items are lacking, (fresh tomatoes, or some basic vegetables) you'll have some one day, and none the next, sourcing issues I guess. but thats not a big issue for us. there is always other things to eat.

[sail7seas]

Bearnaise....

 

Thank you so much for your report. It was generous of you to share and I found it very interesting.

 

I hope we all can enjoy travel to Cuba soon.

[ricki]

Thank you, Bearnaise, for sharing your interesting tale. I'm hopeful that the travel restrictions will be lifted sooner rather than later.

 

Ricki

[protocrone]

My daughter flew from Mexico on a whim with some friends a couple of years ago to Cuba. They spent a couple of days there. Very interesting flight- old Russian plane with all the exit/emergency signs and info in Russian. She got some amazing pictures. Since she's a vegetarian, she said the food was horrible because they put mystery meat in just about everything. Her main focus was the music and art scene which seemed to be everywhere. They thought the people were very friendly although 'out of touch' with the outside world.

 

Would I go? Hell, yes! On a cruise? You bet! Sign me up.

[NordicPrince]

... the laws regarding travel to Cuba are wrong, they're hypocritical in that we allow travel to regimes far more repressive than Castro's, they're anti-business because they keep an important market closed to American investment, and they're only still on the books because of purely political motivations. I also believe that, as an American citizen with all the inherent and granted rights under our Constitution, I shouldn't be banned from traveling where I like without a damn good reason. Political BS is not such a good reason in my opinion.

 

I do seem to recall that the current leaders of Cuba allowed the Russians to install nuclear armed ballistic missiles 90 miles from our U.S. homeland in 1962. In fact it was the closest that the world has ever come to nuclear war.

 

I would not call this "political BS". We're lucky we're still alive.

 

You can ask all the Cuban exiles in Miami and Union City New Jersey who had all of their businesses and homes confiscated by the government

without compensation how they feel about this. This does not include the major U.S. corporations like United Fruit Company that had vast land holdings grabbed by the government without compensation. Plus all of the harsh treatment and suffering of political opponents of the regime over the years.

 

No thanks this is not a place I would willingly go to just to catch a few rays. At least not until some of their past sins have been paid back.

 

The only reason they would welcome you is because they can't get an economy going under the governmental structure they have and need the

greenback.

 

Just MHO.

[CtheW0rld]

I do seem to recall that the current leaders of Cuba allowed the Russians to install nuclear armed ballistic missiles 90 miles from our U.S. homeland in 1962. In fact it was the closest that the world has ever come to nuclear war.

 

I would not call this "political BS". We're lucky we're still alive.

 

You can ask all the Cuban exiles in Miami and Union City New Jersey who had all of their businesses and homes confiscated by the government

without compensation how they feel about this. This does not include the major U.S. corporations like United Fruit Company that had vast land holdings grabbed by the government without compensation. Plus all of the harsh treatment and suffering of political opponents of the regime over the years.

 

No thanks this is not a place I would willingly go to just to catch a few rays. At least not until some of their past sins have been paid back.

 

The only reason they would welcome you is because they can't get an economy going under the governmental structure they have and need the

greenback.

 

Just MHO.

 

that almost 50 years ago. time to move on.

[tip]

that almost 50 years ago. time to move on.

 

You are indeed correct. We are now in the 21st Century. The Cold War is over. Americans have traveled to Russia, including me. The Vietnam War is now over. Americans have traveled to Vietnam. We cannot and should not forget the past, but we cannot live in the past.

[CtheW0rld]

You are indeed correct. We are now in the 21st Century. The Cold War is over. Americans have traveled to Russia, including me. The Vietnam War is now over. Americans have traveled to Vietnam. We cannot and should not forget the past, but we cannot live in the past.

 

right. and japan. been there, too. and let's not forget china - talk about oppressive. i could almost feel it when i stepped off the plane.

[cruisemom42]

I do seem to recall that the current leaders of Cuba allowed the Russians to install nuclear armed ballistic missiles 90 miles from our U.S. homeland in 1962. In fact it was the closest that the world has ever come to nuclear war.

 

I would not call this "political BS". We're lucky we're still alive.

 

You can ask all the Cuban exiles in Miami and Union City New Jersey who had all of their businesses and homes confiscated by the government

without compensation how they feel about this. This does not include the major U.S. corporations like United Fruit Company that had vast land holdings grabbed by the government without compensation. Plus all of the harsh treatment and suffering of political opponents of the regime over the years.

 

No thanks this is not a place I would willingly go to just to catch a few rays. At least not until some of their past sins have been paid back.

 

The only reason they would welcome you is because they can't get an economy going under the governmental structure they have and need the

greenback.

 

Just MHO.

 

 

As I just posted on another board a couple of days ago, I can completely understand anyone's personal feelings about not visiting Cuba. However, I think it should be a personal choice, not a government embargo.

 

The Communist government of China also seized assets of US nationals at least twice in the 20th century, most recently during the Korean War. They also have a repressive government. (And there are tens of thousands of Chinese who fled their country and came to the US over the years, leaving most if not all of their possessions behind.) Yet Americans are allowed to travel there. Why is Cuba treated so differently?

 

P.S. I guess you aren't counting those bombs the US dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when you say "the closest the world has ever come to nuclear war"?

[fann1sh]

(Ironically, while McDonalds and Starbucks were thankfully absent from my first visit, I did notice that some patently American brands like Coca-Cola and Marlboro were blatantly available - how does that work?)

 

I expect with miniscule inspection, you would have found those items were packaged in Canada, or Mexico.

[peaches from georgia]

The bottom line is that this is all about Florida politics and both parties are scared to death of losing the Cuban-American vote. On our last cruise we made friends with a young (35ish) couple from Miami of Cuban heriitage, only his grandparents have ever even been to Cuba. Discussed all this openly and he said all the young/middle age people like him are disgusted with the US policy toward Cuba; it long ago ceased making sense for either country. They all want trade and tourism with Cuba which would benefit both countries, especially the Cuban people. Castro has been no threat to the US for a long time and it is time to move on, but politicians don't have the guts to say so.

[callmedeb]

I expect with miniscule inspection, you would have found those items were packaged in Canada, or Mexico.

 

Actually the Coke and other Sodas usually come from South and/or Central America, along with most of thier petrol. The tourist busses are South Korean.

 

Cheers,

 

Deb

[GmaPajama]

Count us among those who would book a cruise to Cuba at the very first opportunity. I'd LOVE to visit that country by ship.