Is HAL Next to Change Smoking Policy. Princess Did!

[iancal]

Whatever you call the perfume debate, it is nothing but a red herring and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the smoking policy on HAL.

 

I suspect that it has been introduced purely to move the debate and gain some sort of sympathy for smokers. I am allergic to most flowering plants. I am not running around suggesting that HAL should not alter it's smoking policy until such time as it removes all flowers in the public areas of their ship.

[RevNeal]

I did not say that perfume does not cause reactions in some people, but you can not compare this to smoking. Someone had asked where do you draw the line. I draw the line where people are dying in large numbers. I would put my money on more hospitalizations from peanut allergies than perfume reactions. BUT I have not researched it and will not for the purposes of this discussion. I guess we all have to find vacations that expose us less to the things that bother us the most.

 

No, you were simply dismissing all other reactions to all irritants in favor of focusing upon the real, scientifically proven risk of cancer caused by smoking. That's ok ... it appears to be your point of interest/concern.

 

My point was that there are more immediate concerns than just cancer to worry about -- both from smoking AND from other things. Not to minimize the risk of cancer, mind you, but when faced with the immediate dangers of respiratory distress (due to COPD or any number of other causes) and anaphylactic shock on the one hand, or on the other an X percentage chance of cancer killing that same someone in X number of years, I'll opt for treating the COPD and the anaphylactic shock right now.

[cruz chic]

Whatever you call the perfume debate, it is nothing but a red herring and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the smoking policy on HAL.

 

I suspect that it has been introduced purely to move the debate and gain some sort of sympathy for smokers. I am allergic to most flowering plants. I am not running around suggesting that HAL should not alter it's smoking policy until such time as it removes all flowers in the public areas of their ship.

Exactly. It always comes out from someone on a smoking thread. I was just waiting for someone to bring up fat people gourging on buffets:rolleyes:. That's always another favorite.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Just out of curiosity, how do all of you folks with scent-related allergies manage in your normal day-to-day life? Surely you've had occasions when you gotten on elevators where someone had on too much cologne. Surely you've been to restaurants or shows or other event venues where someone near you was wearing too much cologne. If you can answer "hasn't ever happened to me" to these scenarios then I'll eat my keyboard.

 

If you can manage to live a full life off-ship, why can't you do so on-ship?

 

Most everyone in our world has an allergy to something. Learn to deal with it. Your allergy is no more or less important than the next person's is to them. Food allergies (I must have special meals on my cruise), scent-related allergies (people should not wear cologne on a cruise), nut allergies (bars on a cruise ship should not serve them), etc., etc.

 

Everyone with an allergy seems to want the rest of the world to accommodate their special needs. Heck, I have a severe allergic reaction to wasp stings....the cruise ship needs to guarantee me there will be no wasps in my area and that I will not get stung if there is. :cool:

[RevNeal]

Whatever you call the perfume debate, it is nothing but a red herring and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the smoking policy on HAL.

 

I suspect that it has been introduced purely to move the debate and gain some sort of sympathy for smokers. I am allergic to most flowering plants. I am not running around suggesting that HAL should not alter it's smoking policy until such time as it removes all flowers in the public areas of their ship.

 

Is your opposition to smoking based upon the danger of cancer or upon the immediate, negative physiological response to smoke that so many people on these threads cite as their proximate reason for not wanting smokers on the next door balcony, etc?

 

While the risk of exposure to known carcinogens is a matter of concern to me, my more immediate concern is my immediate reaction to the air I breath ... i.e., can I breath it without coughing, without my eyes watering, without developing a headache, etc? Those questions apply to issues of a smoked effused room as well as a perfume effused room. In other words, it's not a red herring because I don't want either. I adore my mother, but I haven't been able to share a cabin with her in a couple of years because the last time I did her in-cabin smoking make me quite ill. It wasn't the danger of cancer from second-hand smoke that concerned me then ... it was my ability to breath the air. One of the things I like about the new regulation regarding smoking is that it makes it more likely that my mother and I will be able to room together on a future cruise ... saving me several THOUSAND dollars in the process.

[cruz chic]

Everyone with an allergy seems to want the rest of the world to accommodate their special needs. Heck, I have a severe allergic reaction to wasp stings....the cruise ship needs to guarantee me there will be no wasps in my area and that I will not get stung if there is. :cool:

I'm allergic to mosquitos. I don't want to see what happens when I get stung by a wasp. Here I was taking responsibily to protect myself when I could have let the cruise line do it:D;).

[IRL_Joanie]

Whatever you call the perfume debate, it is nothing but a red herring and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the smoking policy on HAL.

 

I suspect that it has been introduced purely to move the debate and gain some sort of sympathy for smokers. I am allergic to most flowering plants. I am not running around suggesting that HAL should not alter it's smoking policy until such time as it removes all flowers in the public areas of their ship.

With the greatest respect let me make this statement so maybe you and others will understand why I mention the perfume/scent allergies when I also smoke.

 

Smoking will kill me over a period of years, this I am quite aware of as are most, if not all smokers, their friends and family members (who may also die because of it.) No argument there.

 

However, scents of any kind, but in general, for me at least, perfumes, can kill me within minutes!!

 

It is not smoking versus perfume/scents that I am trying to educate people of, it is PERFUMES/SCENTS can kill so much faster than a cigarette:(

 

Let me tell you it is no fun to be there and unable to get a breath. It is no fun to have your throat literally close up on you because it is swollen shut due to severe allergies. Ask anyone who has had a severe anaphalactic reaction to anything!!

 

Joanie

[1 HappyCruiser]

The ones who don't have any odor usually cover it up with cologne or perfume.

 

They sometimes do but the smokers usually overdo it even more since their olfactory perceptions are not as keen & they over apply it not realizing just how much they've used.

I understand that the smoke blows from front to back on the veranda's. That just makes sense. I am thinking we would get less on an aft-neighbours will make a difference, of course. Is this correct?

 

Also,we have the Veendam cabin 223 booked and wonder if there is open deck beside us that would now be a smoking area. Anyone know?

 

It won't change anything, I'm just curious!

 

We've noticed that the smoke travels in various directions depending on air currents and not necessarily straight back. On one of our trips a balcony below & ahead of us was a constant problem. Of course being at the bow will minimize a lot of potential problems.

[SeaMatesNYC]

With the greatest respect let me make this statement so maybe you and others will understand why I mention the perfume/scent allergies when I also smoke.

 

Smoking will kill me over a period of years, this I am quite aware of as are most, if not all smokers, their friends and family members (who may also die because of it.) No argument there.

 

However, scents of any kind, but in general, for me at least, perfumes, can kill me within minutes!!

 

It is not smoking versus perfume/scents that I am trying to educate people of, it is PERFUMES/SCENTS can kill so much faster than a cigarette:(

 

Let me tell you it is no fun to be there and unable to get a breath. It is no fun to have your throat literally close up on you because it is swollen shut due to severe allergies. Ask anyone who has had a severe anaphalactic reaction to anything!!

 

Joanie

 

Dear Joanie:

 

You are fighting a loosing battle here. Smoking is evil. It harms the innocent. You cannot hope to persuade anyone otherwise with distracting information about life-threatening conditions caused by a socially-acceptable, nay essential part of the glamorous life peddled by the global cosmetics and fragrance industry. Surrender to your fate.;)

 

Michael (who is enjoying his e-cigarette)

[RevNeal]

It is not smoking versus perfume/scents that I am trying to educate people of, it is PERFUMES/SCENTS can kill so much faster than a cigarette:(

 

Dear Joanie,

 

I understand what you're saying, and for you it is true. However, keep in mind that it is absolutely true for some others that breathing second-hand smoke can generate physiological reactions sometimes just as tragic and lethal for them as inhaling perfumes is for you. And, keep in mind that, for many others, while they may not die immediately from second-hand smoke, they will be made exceedingly uncomfortable by it.

[IRL_Joanie]

Just out of curiosity, how do all of you folks with scent-related allergies manage in your normal day-to-day life? Surely you've had occasions when you gotten on elevators where someone had on too much cologne. Surely you've been to restaurants or shows or other event venues where someone near you was wearing too much cologne. If you can answer "hasn't ever happened to me" to these scenarios then I'll eat my keyboard.

I manage in elevators by placing my hand in a cupped position over my nose and basically try to filter out the smell. I sometimes fan very quickly with paper, magazine or similar if available.

 

Yesterday my doctor ordered me to start wearing surgical mask (paper with elastic that goes around the ears) when I get into a situtaion when I first start to smell a scent.

 

At home we use scent free products, but even that is not 100% perfect. Hubby does the laundry on Saturdays because I cannot deal with the detergent smell. He has to leave the back door open a bit (it is next to the washer) and I either go to my neighbors home for the 3 hours or lean out our bedroom window during that time.

 

My perfume allergies is probably related to my COPD, but it is not confirmed. I used to wear perfume and loved it, but in the past few years it has become a severe allergy:(

 

If you can manage to live a full life off-ship, why can't you do so on-ship?

 

I do and the best way for me is to do exactly what I did on our last cruise. Stay in my stateroom/verandah 99% of the time, let everyone know ahead of time about my allergies, so they are not offended when I move away from them quickly, and avoid places such as the MDR and Show Rooms where the perfumes/scents are the worst:(

 

Most everyone in our world has an allergy to something. Learn to deal with it. Your allergy is no more or less important than the next person's is to them. Food allergies (I must have special meals on my cruise), scent-related allergies (people should not wear cologne on a cruise), nut allergies (bars on a cruise ship should not serve them), etc., etc.

 

Everyone with an allergy seems to want the rest of the world to accommodate their special needs. Heck, I have a severe allergic reaction to wasp stings....the cruise ship needs to guarantee me there will be no wasps in my area and that I will not get stung if there is. :cool:

 

I do not want the world to accommodate my allergies, that is beyond realization and way to much to expect. As I said, I love perfumes, just cannot breath anymore around them. I want people to be able to use them happily, I just want to educate them not to bathe in it and possibly kill someone because of it:(

 

Joanie

[iancal]

I am not opposed to smoking...it is a choice that people make. Whom am I to judge someone else's habits?

 

I have no issue with people smoking on cruise ships. My strong preference is not to be in a room that has been used by a smoker...either a hotel room or a cruise cabin. I have to sleep there and I cannot walk away as I can from a casino for example. I have no issue with people smoking on verandahs...it has never bothered me in the least. I have no problem avoiding casinos if they are smokey...I either don't go in or leave early. Either way it is a money saving excercise.

 

At the end of the day smoking has been proven to be a significant health hazard to those around it. Pity the staff who have to work in these areas/conditions

 

I venture to guess that if Carnival Corp, including HAL, was an American company instead of an offshore company with a USA office, that American laws with regard to smoking and with regard to the hazards incurred by staff forced to work in those areas would result in significantly different policy changes than HAL has just made.

[ironin]

I do not want the world to accommodate my allergies, that is beyond realization and way to much to expect. As I said, I love perfumes, just cannot breath anymore around them. I want people to be able to use them happily, I just want to educate them not to bathe in it and possibly kill someone because of it:(

 

Joanie

 

Joanie: I think you are a nice person whose heart is usually in the right place. You've also done a remarkable job with the cabin photo site. It seems to me that you've written dozens of similar posts on this subject whenever smoking comes up. I'm sure you are well-intentioned but virtually every one of those to whom you have addressed these posts has, one way or the other, made it clear that they just don't care, aren't interested, and sincerely believe you are just attempting to divert the thread topic. IMO, not much, if any, education is going on. But a lot of aggravation (yours and theirs) results because the subject at hand is supposed to be smoking, not whether something else is "as bad as" or "worse than."

 

JMO - YMMV

[scdreamer]

I quote the reply yesterday from my wonderful (and I do mean she is wonderful!!) HAL PCC:

 

Quote "There are still designated area in the ship that guests will be able to go smoke as an option." Unquote

 

So as Greg/RevNeal points out, there will be so many more trying to fit into a smaller areas, that by the way are at present very poorly circulated (air wise.)

 

So, basically you want to be able to smoke, but you also want to breathe clean air at the same time? Hmmmm, why do the words "cake" and "eat it too" come to mind?

[Travalerie]

No, you were simply dismissing all other reactions to all irritants in favor of focusing upon the real, scientifically proven risk of cancer caused by smoking. That's ok ... it appears to be your point of interest/concern.

 

My point was that there are more immediate concerns than just cancer to worry about -- both from smoking AND from other things. Not to minimize the risk of cancer, mind you, but when faced with the immediate dangers of respiratory distress (due to COPD or any number of other causes) and anaphylactic shock on the one hand, or on the other an X percentage chance of cancer killing that same someone in X number of years, I'll opt for treating the COPD and the anaphylactic shock right now.

 

Dismiss is a little harsh. I could have stated my thoughts better as other posters have. I just don't think one has to do with the other. Smoking discussions always leads to perfume. And whether we like it or not, public health decisions have to be made based on numbers, severity of illness, etc. Managing COPD symptoms is just that, managing not treating and treating an obviously life threatening condition such as anaphylactic shock is of course important. But in terms of policy, funding, etc.? The money is not going to go toward perfume awareness. Sorry its just not realistic. And for folks with perfume allergies like Joanie, I just read her post, it does not make your medical problem less important or life threatening. Its just not going to get the research dollars and expensive awareness ads.

[OVgirl]

 

Agreed. This is not something that HAL has jumped into without serious, significant thought. That doesn't mean, however, that there may not be some unintended consequences or some unanticipated outcomes.......... However, as with most incremental steps, right now the ardent, "true believers" on both sides are unhappy. Unfortunate, but being in the middle of the road usually means you're a target from both directions.

 

And I've heard it said that a good compromise/deal leaves both sides unhappy.;)

[IRL_Joanie]

Joanie: I think you are a nice person whose heart is usually in the right place. You've also done a remarkable job with the cabin photo site. It seems to me that you've written dozens of similar posts on this subject whenever smoking comes up. I'm sure you are well-intentioned but virtually every one of those to whom you have addressed these posts has, one way or the other, made it clear that they just don't care, aren't interested, and sincerely believe you are just attempting to divert the thread topic. IMO, not much, if any, education is going on. But a lot of aggravation (yours and theirs) results because the subject at hand is supposed to be smoking, not whether something else is "as bad as" or "worse than."

 

JMO - YMMV

 

I agree with you 100%. If you notice, only once over the last 3 years did I initiate my perfume/scent allergies (I think only once). But it does really irritate me when some people make light of what is such a life threatening problem for so many of us, not you but some others:(

 

It took years and years to educate all of us to the dangers of smoking and look how advanced the world has become on it. I only hope that one day the same can be said of perfumes and other life threatening allergies:)

 

One small step was all it took for anti-smoking... hopefully....

 

Joanie

[RevNeal]

And I've heard it said that a good compromise/deal leaves both sides unhappy.;)

 

Unhappy, perhaps, but at least willing to accept the terms of the compromise and move forward. Unfortunately, there are always some (on both sides) who will only be "happy" when the opposition is crushed into fine powder, that fine powder mixed with water, and then served up as free champaign at cocktail parties. :) I'm not saying that this is what we have here. :D

[Aruba]

Unhappy, perhaps, but at least willing to accept the terms of the compromise and move forward. Unfortunately, there are always some (on both sides) who will only be "happy" when the opposition is crushed into fine powder, that fine powder mixed with water, and then served up as free champaign at cocktail parties.

Or in some cases, flushed. :eek:

[RevNeal]

Or in some cases, flushed. :eek:

 

LOL

After passing through the digestive track, even.

:D ;)

[Aruba]

Yes! ;)

[DizzyDallasDi]

If you notice, only once over the last 3 years did I initiate my perfume/scent allergies (I think only once).

 

Oh my is about all I can say to this. Even I can remember that you've done this countless times in the past few months (on nearly every smoking thread). In fact, there's another smoking thread on the first page where you've brought it up.

[Trader Ron]

The stock market voted today. Even though the market was down today, CCL (Carnivale Corp) was down over 3%, RCL (Royal Carribian) was down a little over 1%.

 

There are a lot of people that have picked CCL lines because of there previous smoking policy. Now why would some of them that still smoke not choice any of the other lines. In many instances we cruise HAL because of being able to smoke, now I can look at price if I continue to cruise.. It would certainly save me a bundle, I had put a depoist on the 2013 world cruise.

 

The reason CCL went down is because they lowered their earnings due to fuel charges and a soft market in Southern Europe.

 

I added to my CCL and RCL holdings on the selloff.

[kazu]

Here's a thought - let's just let this thread drop.

 

No one will ever be completely happy. but this board is all about helping each other, not debating about smoking.

 

There was a suggestion that all the smoking threads be wrapped up into one (like the anytime dining thread). I think that is a great idea.

 

If this is not in the front and forefront those that want to address can but it won't be such a flame on the board.

 

I just think this is getting too contentious and people can get too hurt or upset. If everyone didn't post it would be gone in no time.

 

Just a thought and just my opinion.;) You can flame me, but only on the balcony though:p

[IRL_Joanie]

Oh my is about all I can say to this. Even I can remember that you've done this countless times in the past few months (on nearly every smoking thread). In fact, there's another smoking thread on the first page where you've brought it up.

 

Note that I said initiate in that post. But let me state this. It is my right just as it is yours or any other member to mention our health. Whether I smoke or not has nothing to do with it. Non smokers are allowed to freely speak their minds about smokers and their (the non smokers) health concerns, but if I, a smoker mention mine I am almost chastised for mentioning or replying to someone about it, just because I smoke:rolleyes:

 

Let me state that many of my allergies I have had since birth, alcohol (drinking and rubbing, some medications, etc., etc., does that mean because I am a smoker I cannot ask questions or address them on this board, just because I am a smoker???:rolleyes:

 

I will not be responding to anymore of these posts regasrding smoking, yes I know I think I have stated that before, but this time I mean it.

 

I will be smoking on my verandah and may not even ask my next door neighbors anymore if it bothers them. After all, now I cannot retreat to the stateroom to make it nicer for them. I paid for my stateroom and verandah and I will be enjoying that verandah even more now.:)

 

Jacqui, this is my last post on the subject:)

 

Joanie