meow! Posted August 3, 2011 #1 Share Posted August 3, 2011 We had been on the Regatta and Nautica (the R ships), but have not been on the Marina. The followin discussion is based on Oceania's own published data, with our interpretation based on those data, and our opinion based on such interpretations. Please note that space is space, something presumably objectively measured. While the efficiency in the use of space may vary, we believe our opinion to be generally in line with the previous polls on this board. R ships: 30,277 gross tonnes for 684 passengers, or a space ratio of 44.26 (meaning 4,426 cu. ft. of three dimensional space per passenger). Typical (majority balconied cabin category A's and B's) 216 sq.ft. Marina/Riviera: 66,084 gross tonnes for 1250 passengers, or a space ratio of 52.86. Typical (majority balconied cabin category A's and B's) 282 sq.ft. So the typical cabin size increased by 31%, while the overall (cabin + public area) per passenger space increased by 19%. Given that there are larger fractions of larger suites on the new, the average cabin size (of all categories) has likely increased by more than 31% (those interested are welcome to add the areas of each category cabin up and verify our generalized statement here). In other words, the percentage increase in cabin space is much larger than the percentage increase in per passenger public space. Or in other words, cabin space has grown at the expense of per passenger public space. We don't have enough information (such as crew quarters etc.) to tell actually whether the per passenger public space has increased or decreased from the R ships to the new ships. Reports on this board seem to have indicated that chairs at restaurants, etc., seem to be too close together and movement between tables somewhat difficult. As for the cabins, let us just look at the typical balconied cabin. A 31% increase is substantial, and presumably a lot of it went into the bathroom, which on the new ships include separate tub and shower. The Silver Cloud/Wind, is going to be refurbished from just a tub-shower in their typical 295 sq.ft. cabins to just a nicer shower. Only the Silver Shadow/Whisper's typical cabin at 345 sq.ft. is going to keep the separate tub and shower configuration. So for a 282 sq.ft. Marina/Riviera typical cabin to have separate tub and shower may well be overkill. Many posters also have other misgivings on the cabin design. Not having been in one ourselves, suffice it for us to say that perhaps Oceania has attempted to do too much for the cabin, while not allocating enough space for such an ambition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted August 3, 2011 #2 Share Posted August 3, 2011 meow, I cannot even begin to decipher your numbers - much too complicated for me. So I will not analyze your numbers; instead all I can tell you are MY impressions. Regardless of what the numbers say (i.e. 216 on R ship vs 282 on Marina) the cabin itself is (or feels) no larger. In fact, it had less usable space and storage space than R ship cabins, IMO. I believe most, if not all, of that increase went into the bathroom and in turn it went into the tub space - no gain at all as far as I am concerned. I would be much happier with a larger shower instead of a tub. I had no problem with public spaces on the Marina per se; in other words, I never felt crowded. My main objection was that appearances trumped usefulness of most of the furnishings. By far MY biggest problem on the Marina was the difference in interactions between passengers themselves and passengers and crew; both these suffered, IMO, due to the significantly larger number of people onboard. To me it no longer was as personal and intimate (and attentive) as I experienced on the R ships. This, as I had mentioned before, is not unique to Oceania - we experienced the same difference ("let down") on Silversea between the smaller and larger ships. This effect is difficult to counter because of sheer numbers and it understandably gets worse as the ships get larger and larger (more impersonal) I fully understand that not everybody feels this way; or that these factors are not important to them - but we feel that way and they are important to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebobh Posted August 3, 2011 #3 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Having been on both class of ships (Marina and Regatta, specifically) my thoughts are: The cabins are larger, but not significantly in the feel of the room. The bathrooms are thankfully larger, much of which is for the tub (which my wife loves & I don't mind). The infamous shower is OK, although tough on the low back to lean away from the rainfall shower head.the sleeping area is fine, but not perceptually much larger than the R Class cabins. As stated previously, any room that forces people to do the limbo when trying to pass at the foot of the bed is still too small. The public rooms, hallways and restaurants are sufficient in almost all cases, and transit areas are not crowded in their feel. The Terrace Cafe does get hectic, and can feel crowded due to the table placement and positioning. It is the exception rather than the rule, though. The Marina's elevators feel inadequate in their number. This induced us to take the stairs in most instances, which is not all bad. The fitness center feels large and spacious, much more so than in the Regatta. The library on R Class ships is much preferred IMHO. It was a treat, and nice place to relax, read, kindle, etc. The new "library" is a hallway with no privacy & little ambiance. I hope they re-do the format (perhaps make it a two part beam to beam area with the computer center?) for the Riviera. The coffee spot on the Marina is great, and a good place to watch the world slip by. The Concierge and Executive lounges are also a very good addition, and help move people away from the larger venues for informal eating and info gathering, etc. One last thing is the chairs inn the lounge. They seem loooow, and although we are pretty healthy and limber, my sense is the are hard to enter and launch from for a lot of folks. All in all, the Marina's ambiance rhymes well with the R Class ships, and anyone used t the small ships can easily find their way around on the Marina; the art and finishe on the Marina Arne also fabulous, which heightens the experience. Of course, this is just my opinion,mbut I pay a lot of attention to aesthetics and space usage, so it will hopefully help others. Regards, Bob H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meow! Posted August 3, 2011 Author #4 Share Posted August 3, 2011 meow,I cannot even begin to decipher your numbers - much too complicated for me.. In fact, you expressed very well in words what we are trying to indicate in numbers! Coming from you, the statements look trustworthy and respectable. But we couldn't say that (can only imagine it) since we have not been on the newbuild. And unfortunately, some will accuse us of crying sour grapes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted August 3, 2011 #5 Share Posted August 3, 2011 In fact, you expressed very well in words what we are trying to indicate in numbers! Coming from you, the statements look trustworthy and respectable. But we couldn't say that (can only imagine it) since we have not been on the newbuild. And unfortunately, some will accuse us of crying sour grapes! meow, I hope that one day you will find a cruise on the Marina (or the Riviera ) that will suit you and you will have a chance to experience it in person (and with your measuring tape in hand, of course :)). As I have said before, food on the Marina is second to none, IMO. But there is no getting away from the numbers and their effects (as we see them). For the right itinerary at the right price, we'll cruise on just about any cruise line or ship - and we have (I did say almost any :)) We just adjust our expectations accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meow! Posted August 3, 2011 Author #6 Share Posted August 3, 2011 But there is no getting away from the numbers and their effects (as we see them).There is, we won't measure the Azamara Journey when we get on it later this month, we will just post the link to our previous measuements of the Regatta! HaHa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted August 3, 2011 #7 Share Posted August 3, 2011 There is, we won't measure the Azamara Journey when we get on it later this month, we will just post the link to our previous measuements of the Regatta! HaHa! By numbers I actually meant as in number of passengers on the Marina (and the effect of this) - not numbers as in measurements. Enjoy your Azamara cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimandStan Posted August 3, 2011 #8 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I hope they re-do the format (perhaps make it a two part beam to beam area with the computer center?) for the Riviera. I don't believe that your suggestion would work, because the engine exhausts vent up into the funnel through that center portion; however, it might be a good idea to permanently close off the door from the library into Barristas, making library less of a hallway. Additionally, If the area near the windows wasn't being used as a walk through, it could be furnished so as to entice the "chronic snoozers" out of the library proper. I've found that recliners work best for this purpose They called it a "sun lounge" in the 1950's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mura Posted August 3, 2011 #9 Share Posted August 3, 2011 My opinion no doubt isn't worth all that much since we haven't yet sailed on Marina. That will happen in October. But a better comparison (for us) would probably be an "R" ship PH to a Reviera PH which is what we were supposed to do next April -- until Oceania bribed us to switch from an Alaska cruise on Regatta to a VS on Marina in October. I have to think that being in a VS on Marina will be VERY different from a PH on any of the ships, so that's my proviso. But here's what attracted me to the new ships for the most part (from the first glowing reports) ... It is the new restaurant choices. As good as the food is on the "R" ships -- and you should know that we really prefer the GDR to Polo or Toscana! -- we are really looking forward to the additional choices on Marina/Riviera. That is primarily, Red Ginger - Jacques - and La Reserve. I doubt we'll do Privee unless someone invites us! I will be very interested in our feelings and opinions once we've sailed on Marina. (She looked gorgeous sailing out of NY Harbor a few months ago.) But I suspect we will join the many "R" ship fans who still prefer the smaller ships. But we won't know for sure until we've "been there, done that". And I must admit that I can't wait to sail on Marina because I never expected to be in a VS ... with my own exercise room and two jacuzzis! (Okay DH can share.) We didn't pay for it but we're very happy to take advantage of Oceania's offer -- the just wanted to get people off Regatta in Alaska and we weren't too proud, so we accepted. And it was a great itinerary for us since most of the ports are new to us ... we've traveled a lot but for some reason we've rarely down the Italian or French ports. Will vote on the poll once we get home! Without having sailed on Marina yet, I still wish that some of the favored dishes from Jacques and Red Ginger would find their way to the GDR menu on the "R" ships. I don't see why that can't happen! Mura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted August 3, 2011 #10 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Mura, I know (at least I hope) you will enjoy Marina. However, you must keep in mind that one should compare apples to apples. Cruising on the Marina in VS will be heaven - but cannot be fairly compared to an oceanview or a verandah. Of the 3 segment we had a PH for the TA crossing and that was very, very nice; the PH, the closet, the BR, the butler - all very nice and much more than adequate. I normally do not cruise in a PH so I was making comparisons of a verandah on an R ship vs Marina as that is where we usually cruise. Enjoy your cruise and your VS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mura Posted August 3, 2011 #11 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Don't worry, Paul ... I know the difference! I was trying to convey that knowledge in my post. We normally book a PH. For the Norway cruise last summer we were late and so were in an A3. We've been in an OS and a VS (once each) on the "R" ships. I know that we're going to be in very lush digs that normally would be beyond us! I am willing to take advantage of that ... No, I would not try to compare the VS on Marina to an oceanview or veranda on Marina, let alone to a similar cabin on the "R" ships. I look forward to our VS because we won't be doing so again! What I will be looking at in comparing the ships is the public spaces, the restaurants ... and so on. I already know I will prefer the library on the "R" ships ... the library is my favorite space on the "R" ships and I already know from posts that the library on Marina doesn't compare. Fortunately I will have my Kindle ... Mura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebobh Posted August 3, 2011 #12 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Thanks, JimandStan; In my zeal to fix a problem, I seem to have forgotten about the pesky physics stuff and the need for the ship to actually vent exhaust...those doors on either side, even though they have a wind screen, were pretty fun to open and close with the ever-present wind. There may be regs to require a certain number of exits, etc., but your suggestion would help to create some quiet and desired ambiance in the library. Looking at that deck area, it is more that the computer area is out of place (with Baristas, a library, and specialty restaurants). One of our favorite spots is a pre-Starbucks bookstore/coffee shop, which this could emulate. Not sure where all the computers could go (overboard...?) but ship design hasn't been one of my strong suits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyQuinn Posted August 3, 2011 #13 Share Posted August 3, 2011 There is, we won't measure the Azamara Journey when we get on it later this month, we will just post the link to our previous measuements of the Regatta! HaHa!If you check the published sizes of various categories of staterooms/suites on the "R" ships of Oceania and Azamara, you'll find considerable differences between the lines. There is also variation in the configuration and use of public spaces. Better bring that measuring tape. Or not. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimandStan Posted August 3, 2011 #14 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Thanks, JimandStan; In my zeal to fix a problem, I seem to have forgotten about the pesky physics stuff and the need for the ship to actually vent exhaust...those doors on either side, even though they have a wind screen, were pretty fun to open and close with the ever-present wind. There may be regs to require a certain number of exits, etc., but your suggestion would help to create some quiet and desired ambiance in the library. Looking at that deck area, it is more that the computer area is out of place (with Baristas, a library, and specialty restaurants). One of our favorite spots is a pre-Starbucks bookstore/coffee shop, which this could emulate. Not sure where all the computers could go (overboard...?) but ship design hasn't been one of my strong suits... When we were on the Marina, they were still erecting awnings and wind baffles on the Starboard side of the Funnel, in the hope that the deck outside of the Board Room and Oceania@Sea would become something of a "coffee terrace". If I'm not mistaken, those two little quarter-round rooms on either side of the elevators are service lockers for deck equipment, so the doors would have to remain where they are, but if people can't get into Barristas on that side it would eliminate a lot of traffic. Another rumor is that if the volume continues to increase in Barristas, an outdoor counter might be added.......perhaps that could replace the hated Library door?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebobh Posted August 3, 2011 #15 Share Posted August 3, 2011 True, we were primarily in the Bay of Biscay and the English Channel, but the wind buffeting on the top deck was pretty constant. People seemed to use the port side deck (outside the library) to read on lounge chairs. I don't recall ever seeing anyone on the starboard side sitting behind the baffles, or anyone on either side drinking coffee due to the wind factor. Radically, they could move Baristas to the computer center locale, and open it to the outside area there for inside-outside service. The library could move to the front so people could enjoy that view, and the computers could be in the long hallway now masquerading as a library. I'm sure Oceania's designers have some of these goofy ideas (like mine) tacked to their workspaces for a chuckle... Re the other issues, the shower is bigger on the Marina, its just the showerhead that causes grief for a 6-footer (the controls are also fun to learn, so be sure to wear waterproof clothing the first time). We don't go to many of the shows, but the theater's roof was also "low" IMHO, and I enjoy the speakeasy feel of the R Ship's entertainment lounge. The extra people were only evident for me during breakfast and some dinners on the Terrace (I did mostly private tours, so we also didn't get into many runs for buses with the maddening crowds); other than that, it was a pretty quiet boat. I don't think I'd cry if I were forced to go on either class of ship, and it is not a factor when looking at itineraries for us, except that I don't think I'd cross the big ponds on the smaller ships, and if we book an R-Class ship, I'll scrimp to get a Penthouse for the added space in my cabin. Since passion and personal experience almost always trump facts and opinions, there are undoubtedly those who may disagree. If so, no slight intended, and no jousting desired. Thanks, Bob H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted August 3, 2011 #16 Share Posted August 3, 2011 When we were on the Marina, they were still erecting awnings and wind baffles on the Starboard side of the Funnel, in the hope that the deck outside of the Board Room and Oceania@Sea would become something of a "coffee terrace". If I'm not mistaken, those two little quarter-round rooms on either side of the elevators are service lockers for deck equipment, so the doors would have to remain where they are, but if people can't get into Barristas on that side it would eliminate a lot of traffic. Another rumor is that if the volume continues to increase in Barristas, an outdoor counter might be added.......perhaps that could replace the hated Library door?? On our cruise they did have the awning up but during a windy day one came loose from the moorings. Maybe they could move the library to where the card room/computer room is and do away with the card room in favour of a bigger area for Barristas Now if they could find a spot for a Barristas on the R-ships ...life would be heavenly ;) Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted August 3, 2011 #17 Share Posted August 3, 2011 There is imo no perfect ship. The Marina's PHs are superb accommodations. Any ship that offers Jacques and Red Ginger is worth sailing on for those alone. The R ships offer more intimacy and better mingling among passengers and with the crew and though many of the public rooms are obviously smaller, they are also more functional. So what's a cruiser to do? Personally, I'd let itinerary guide my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted August 3, 2011 #18 Share Posted August 3, 2011 There is imo no perfect ship. The Marina's PHs are superb accommodations. Any ship that offers Jacques and Red Ginger is worth sailing on for those alone. The R ships offer more intimacy and better mingling among passengers and with the crew and though many of the public rooms are obviously smaller, they are also more functional. So what's a cruiser to do? Personally, I'd let itinerary guide my choice. Well summed up - it is essentially what I have said in different ways. I would find Marina easier to "cope with" in a PH (who wouldn't?) - but, alas, that can not be done on regular basis. While I do prefer the R ships, I would gladly sail on Marina for the right itinerary (& price) :) Even if I had to play Trivia in the lounge :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TERRIER1 Posted August 3, 2011 #19 Share Posted August 3, 2011 We were on the Marina in May/June and have sailed the R ships as well. What we did notice over the 16 days voyage is that the noise coming from the ship (thrusters (?) and engines) was very loud no matter where you were located on the Marina. Is this because the ship is larger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted August 3, 2011 #20 Share Posted August 3, 2011 We were on the Marina in May/June and have sailed the R ships as well. What we did notice over the 16 days voyage is that the noise coming from the ship (thrusters (?) and engines) was very loud no matter where you were located on the Marina. Is this because the ship is larger? I don't know the reason (your guess is reasonable), but it is true - we noticed it as well. Fortunately it is a time-limited activity - usually only at docking or leaving the port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TERRIER1 Posted August 3, 2011 #21 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I don't know the reason (your guess is reasonable), but it is true - we noticed it as well.Fortunately it is a time-limited activity - usually only at docking or leaving the port. We were eating in the dining rooms often when we starting to sail away or dock and the flatware and dishes rattled. No problem with the noise but we were surprised since we hardly heard anything on the smaller R ships. The first time we heard the noise we thought there was something wrong with the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CintiPam Posted August 3, 2011 #22 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Double post; excuse me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CintiPam Posted August 3, 2011 #23 Share Posted August 3, 2011 By far MY biggest problem on the Marina was the difference in interactions between passengers themselves and passengers and crew; both these suffered, IMO, due to the significantly larger number of people onboard. To me it no longer was as personal and intimate (and attentive) as I experienced on the R ships. This, as I had mentioned before, is not unique to Oceania.... I fully understand that not everybody feels this way; or that these factors are not important to them - but we feel that way and they are important to us. Paul, I guess that is the main reason our views of Marina differ. With all the lovely people I met through our great roll call and the tour I organized, I had plenty of passenger interaction, and crew interaction was not a priority. Perhaps I would feel differently on a less port-intensive cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacheco18 Posted August 3, 2011 #24 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I would imagine that you lose something of that intimacy on Marina. What we loved about Insignia and Nautica is that we felt we knew everyone on the ship after only a few days. That's why I am glad that we are on Marina on a TA with lots of sea days and plenty of opportunity to meet others. Our roll call is enormous and since I am helping to organize the meet and greet I expect that will help overcome the intimacy problem You can't have everything on every ship. Everything is a tradeoff. The nice thing is that we can sail Marina, Riviera, R ships or even Celebrity and decide what tradeoff to choose. Tough life but someone has to live it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ask4Jay Posted August 7, 2011 #25 Share Posted August 7, 2011 @ebobh - Please allow me to introduce a little aside: "it was a treat, and a nice place to relax, read, kindle, etc." Kindle being used as a verb. Being a non-native speaker, I continue to be in awe of the flexibility of the English language. Sorry. Carry on. Have only been on the Regatta, so cannot contribute to the discussion. --- - Juergen, via iPod on Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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