Seabourn's "house wines"

[helpme]

See you on board for a nice glass of wine!

[Chairsin]

Sanada, I'm not excusing Seabourn for the poor quality of the wines but I am saying that the lower cruise fares make it easier to justify purchasing your own.

 

Laryrob, well if they do start charging a corkage fee I'll be quite distressed. Please do let us all know if this takes place.

 

Back to the wines they serve. Perhaps we can all come up with a possible solution. Instead of playing Fantasy Football let's play Fantasy Wines and present Seabourn with our roster of picks. So here are the rules -- pick a couple of wines in each category( red, white and rose) that you would like to drink on Seabourn. The wines you pick must cost retail no more than $20 a bottle and must be produced in large enough quantities that Seabourn could purchase in bulk.Then each of us will flood Richard Meadows with our "teams."

[marchanxiety]

Chairsin, I think that's a great idea!

[Chairsin]

Ok, now that I have at least one fellow player I pick Bieler Pere et Fils Provence rose as my first team member. It retails for about $12-13 per bottle, is produced in sufficient quantity to be able to meet Seabourn's needs and most important tastes great.

[FKGirl]

In the white category I pick Perrin et Fils Cotes du Rhone Blanc... It has been the perfect pool wine all summer, goes great with food or not.l. Retail $10. (will have to put more thought into the reds...)

[Chairsin]

FKGirl, thanks for yor white pick -- I agree Perrin is usually a reliable producer.Yes, the reds are more of a problem . Maybe a less Morgon or Fleurie from Burgundy and maybe a nice Malbec from Argentina such as Punto Final. Anyone from Oz have a good Shiraz suggestion?

[FKGirl]

Oh, I do have a red pick too... (another one that has become my "house wine" of late...) Paolo Scavino vin rosso do tavola. It is a little higher retail, $15, but it is a tasty wine that goes great with food. I could (and do) drink it all the time. I am fairly certain it is produced in reasonably large quantities...

[LN50]

We like the Lussac St Emilion red that we have previously had on Seabourn, I do not see anyone mention it here recently. Does anyone know if they still have this onboard?

 

I hope Seabourn sit up and take note, particularly before Helpme, Laryrob and I board in Athens. ;)

[Steve007NY]

I'd vote for the Chalone chardonnay and the Ravenswood Zin. I know SB usually goes with non-US wines, but these are our VCB and VCR (vino cheapo blanco and rojo) when we are entertaining BIG crowds.... and enjoy them ourselves as well. The Chalone is buttery, the Ravenswood a BIG zin.

[Dorinda]

Seabourn served Charles Shaw wines on the second night in the MDR and this is no joking matter.

 

Really? :eek: I thought you were being funny. If we had seen that we would have thought SB was playing a practical joke!

 

2 Buck Chuck is only for private consumption. Certainly never to be taken to someone's house, or served in a restaurant.

 

Is it still being served on SB, does anyone know? What were they thinking I wonder? Perhaps they didn't expect anyone to be on board who knew what the stuff was?

 

If it is served on our Thanksgiving TA they can expect to have one table of guests snorting with laughter!

 

Cheers, Dee

[sananda]

Sanada, I'm not excusing Seabourn for the poor quality of the wines but I am saying that the lower cruise fares make it easier to justify purchasing your own.

 

I suppose that's one way of looking at things.

 

 

Back to the wines they serve. Perhaps we can all come up with a possible solution. Instead of playing Fantasy Football let's play Fantasy Wines and present Seabourn with our roster of picks. So here are the rules -- pick a couple of wines in each category( red, white and rose) that you would like to drink on Seabourn. The wines you pick must cost retail no more than $20 a bottle and must be produced in large enough quantities that Seabourn could purchase in bulk.Then each of us will flood Richard Meadows with our "teams."

 

This is a good proactive idea. I wonder if Meadows will actually listen. Before I make some picks, I would like to pose the question "What is your definition of luxury?" Seabourn bills itself as a "luxury" cruise line. Is drinking wine that retails for < $20 a bottle all that luxurious? I never believed I would utter such a phrase, but I think that those rappers with their grills and bling demonstrate a much better understanding of what true luxury items (like the Cristal Champagne) are than the buyers at Seabourn. I would expect to be served wine that retails for < $20 a bottle from my worthless brother-in-law, not on a "luxury" vacation that costs more than $1000 a day per person.

 

Here are a few to think about for the team.

 

Red

2011 Zolo Malbec ~ $10

2011 Hahn Winery California Pinot Noir ~ $12

2010 Evodia Old Vines Garnacha ~ $8

2010 Eden Road The Long Road Gundagai Shiraz ~ $16

 

White

2010 Bellingham The Bernard Series Old Vine Chenin Blanc ~ $18

2008 Honig Sauvignon Blanc ~$16

2008 Saint M Riesling ~ $12

2007 Chateau de Bonhoste, Bordeaux Blanc ~ $15

 

Rose

2011 Douglas Green The Beach House Rose ~ $14

2011 Mulderbosch Cabernet Sauvignon Rose ~ $8

[FKGirl]

You make a good point about 'luxury". That being said, I don't think they necessarily need to pour expensive wines included in the fare, but there are good, drinkable options that wholesale around $10.

 

Serving 3 Buck Chuck is inexcusable.

 

More options:

Pine Ridge Chenin Blanc/Viognier (I think they sell it in Costco around $11, and while not complex, certainly enjoyable to drink.)

Michele Chiarlo Barbera D'asti (I think it retails around $14-15)

Many, many good cotes du rhone and rioja

[Chairsin]

Thanks for all of the constructive input. Who can say if Meadows will respond but at least we are offering some constructive alternatives rather than just generally bitching( not that there is anything wrong with that once in awhile.) And yes, Seabourn is a luxury liner nonetheless given the open bar policy I do not expect them to freely pour expensive wine.However, since their own advertising states "fine wine" is poured I do expect better than Two Buck Chuck(my husband is still in disbelief that they served this) and JP Chenet. My $20 number is both arbitrary and practical. Many wine writers commonly use $20 as a sweet spot where they note it is possible to buy some very decent wines( note Eric Asimov's recent article in the New York Times). My number is also based on the estimated retail price point of many of the wines served on Seabourn until about a year or so ago when i noticed a big change. And finally in hopes of getting Seabourn to take notice I thought I would not set the bar so high that they would just ignore it.So keep putting your suggestions on this thread and in a week or so i will consolidate it and forward it to Meadows.

[wdpmd]

Great thread.

 

I nominate Villa Maria, an unoaked NZ chard. It retails for about USD 12.

 

Dave

[laryrob]

Great thread.

 

I nominate Villa Maria, an unoaked NZ chard. It retails for about USD 12.

 

Dave

 

Seabourn is in Seattle which is very close to great Washington and Oregon wineries. A twenty minute ride gets them to Woodinville where there are over twenty great producer tasting rooms. That being said I suggest they consider the following:

1. Tamarack 2010 Firehouse Red Coulumbia Valley $16

 

2. Dunham Trutina Columbia Valley 2009 $26(they will discount for multicase purchase)

 

3.Millbrandt Cab Columbia Valley Traditions 2010 $15 and a 90 from Ws!

 

4. Chehalem 2011 PINOT Gris 3 vineyard 2011$19. Wiiamette Valley

 

5. Erath Pinot Gris Oregon 2011 $14

 

6. Columbia Crest H 3 Les Chevaux Horse Heaven Hills 2010 $15 -also a 90 from WS

 

I could go on w/20 more that are under $20 that are substantially better than anything I've had on board . There are 3 2006 Riojas at $15-24 (one a 92) that are also ready available.

 

Not hard to find decent well priced wines if you take 5 min to look. Wonder who their distributor is ? $2 Chuck's brother?

[Corony]

I agree with the previous posts. Can it be that hard to subscribe to something like Wine Spectator to get info regarding ratings and availability? No one is asking them to break the budget but instead just do a little homework. I think we all get the fact there is a premium wine list but hopefully their included wines will show a bit of variety and quality for their budget. We board our third cruise in a couple of weeks for 20 days and hope there is one or two wines that will suit our taste but given the cruise length it would be nice to have more than one or two options. We have purchased wines in the past which is fine but I agree that the advertising that states fine wines is borrowing a bit of artistic license.

[sananda]

Thanks for all of the constructive input. Who can say if Meadows will respond but at least we are offering some constructive alternatives rather than just generally bitching( not that there is anything wrong with that once in awhile.) And yes, Seabourn is a luxury liner nonetheless given the open bar policy I do not expect them to freely pour expensive wine.However, since their own advertising states "fine wine" is poured I do expect better than Two Buck Chuck(my husband is still in disbelief that they served this) and JP Chenet. My $20 number is both arbitrary and practical. Many wine writers commonly use $20 as a sweet spot where they note it is possible to buy some very decent wines( note Eric Asimov's recent article in the New York Times). My number is also based on the estimated retail price point of many of the wines served on Seabourn until about a year or so ago when i noticed a big change. And finally in hopes of getting Seabourn to take notice I thought I would not set the bar so high that they would just ignore it.So keep putting your suggestions on this thread and in a week or so i will consolidate it and forward it to Meadows.

 

You are a very reasonable person, I agree with your points and thanks for taking the initiative with Meadows. If they had provided a selection of house wines in this price range that had been selected for taste and quality I would not have been so grumpy and the disparity between the promised luxury and low brow wine selection would not have been so glaring. But I left the ship feeling that Seabourn was being exceedingly cheap with the house wines, and ruining the fine culinary creations the chefs were serving.

 

Since our cruise we have been inundated with a constant barrage of literature from Seabourn. All the photos and text promise world class luxury. When I think about luxury and what Seabourn offers... caviar and champagne, yes. exquisite dining, yes. well appointed suites, yes. attentive white glove service, yes. $20 a bottle retail "fine wine", not so much. What they actually delivered was < $8 a bottle retail garbage. I am still in disbelief about the discrepancy between their definition of "luxury" and mine.

[wripro]

I think it's agreed everyone here is unhappy with the quality of the included wines. I'm not sure that everyone who sails on Seabourn, the majority of whom have never heard of Cruise Critic, will agree, but let's say they do. If you compare the per diem on Seabourn this past year to ten years ago it is in fact, lower in most cases while many of their expenses, including building three new ships, have skyrocketed. They have to cut somewhere and they have obviously chosen wine as one of the areas to do so. They could have eliminated caviar as every other luxury line has (except Crystal where you can only get it in the dining room or your cabin) but can you imagine the uproar that would cause on these boards, probably by many of the same people who are complaining about the wine? They could cut the quality of the ingredients for food but then the "exquisite" dining some of us praise would be compromised and the ensuing uproar would be equally loud. They could cut down on staff but then the great service we have come to expect would also be compromised. I don't love the wine choices either but I have decided to view the SB experience in the larger sense and not let wines color my opinion. It's a business I want to succeed so it will be there when I want it to be.

[Chairsin]

Yes, as I also noted fares are lower than they were a few years ago so I don't want to over reach on this issue. Nonetheless, it can't hurt to ask them to be a bit more selective when buying the house wines. I don't think this is just a matter or cost -- I think they have also gotten a little lazy. Is this a deal breaker for me? No. I mentioned the different ways we deal with it( buying wine on shore or on board). But if it means paying an extra couple of hundred per person to go back to the formerly acceptable wines I would be in favor of that. In the meantime lets see if after the list is complete they respond.

[wripro]

Chairsin,

 

Maybe you are willing to pay extra for SB to provide better wines. Is everyone?

[laryrob]

Chairsin,

 

Maybe you are willing to pay extra for SB to provide better wines. Is everyone?

 

 

Isnt a matter of cost-it's a matter of selecion for the same price SB is paying now for the pedestrian swill(except maybe fpr 2 buck Chuck-which is inexcusable at any price)

[sananda]

wripro - you make a good point that any cuts in service would be complained about by the veterans. But this is not my point. As a first time Seabourn cruiser, my expectations were based on Seabourn's own brochures. If they had eliminated caviar and didn't mention it in the brochure, I would have been none the wiser. My point is that to me, luxury is something nice that you don't get everyday and maybe it is a bit expensive. I don't normally eat at top of the line restaurants, consume caviar, receive wonderful white glove service, etc. Luxurious. I routinely consume wine that retails above $20 a bottle. I realize that I am whining about a first world problem here, but I will maintain that the house wines on Seabourn are anything but luxurious. More importantly, they tasted terrible and the hype of luxury promised in the brochures and website fell flat.

 

I wasn't aware that the per diems have decreased with Seabourn. Was there a time period when they had problems filling the ships? The Sojourn was at capacity when I was on board.

 

When you are talking about a vacation that costs several thousand dollars per person for one week, I would be willing to pay a couple hundred dollars more for drinkable wine. Also, like laryrob said the main problem is the selection. They don't seem to make much of an effort in selecting quality low cost wines.

[intel]

When you are talking about a vacation that costs several thousand dollars per person for one week, I would be willing to pay a couple hundred dollars more for drinkable wine. Also, like laryrob said the main problem is the selection. They don't seem to make much of an effort in selecting quality low cost wines.

 

Havent we heard enough about bad wine on SB. There isnt any bad wine (unless it is off) some appeal more than others. How many different types of wine are on the market and I would think there are a lot of those wont suit your pallete.

My answer to you and others and to quote you "I would be willing to pay a couple hundred dollars more for drinkable wine" buy a package on the boat or bring a carton of your own selection on board

[Chairsin]

Intel, that is exactly how many of us have worked around the issue on recent cruises. However, this is not a perfect solution that works in all instances. I can buy decent wine at ports in the Med and I can easily bring them on board from home when cruising out of Fort Lauderdale. When the cruise is in the Baltics this does not work.Also, if Seabourn decides to actually start to charge a corkage fee this optional will become less attractive. Buying on board is also a possibility -- though I have been on a Seabourn cruise where they were out of many of our selections.Yes, there is no absolute on good versus bad wine (unless, as you sa,y it is corked), but we are talking about a change in the level of wines currently available on board now versus in the past -- it is a relative rather than absolute thing.

 

But as I also noted fares ARE lower than they were. As an example for the same class of suite on a little ship for a 14 day cruise in the Med in mid to late September I looked back at my files and can tell you that in 2003 we paid almost $1500 more per person than we did in 2010.

[Corony]

I don't think it would cost a couple hundred dollars per person more to hire someone to take a greater level of care in the choosing of the wines. I think we run the risk of having them select more expensive wines with the same lack of care that they now use. We are about to board our third cruise in as many years and feel this is a policy issue as much as a cost issue. Someone in Seattle needs to research the selection more carefully.