Seabourn's "house wines"

[wripro]

It's also an availability problem. Can SB buy these wines in sufficient quantity to service all six ships with reasonable consistency? Not always so easy.

[themed4me]

Wripro, availabilty is certainly an important criterion, but with so many producers with such high production capacities, it is not a problem in the wine world of 2012.

[sananda]

It's not the price of the wine, its the quality.

 

There are many drinkable and appealing value wines that match well with food -- it's just they do not tend to be served on Seabourn ships.

 

It's a buying problem, not necessarily a price-point problem.

 

I completely agree that the quality of the wine is most important, but price is often related to quality. The vintners of the cheap wine often don't have their own vines, but instead buy the juice by the tanker truck. The juice has quality ratings. You can't sell wine at under $4 a bottle at a profit if you buy the better quality juice. If the vintner has it's own vines, you can't sell wine at under $4 a bottle at a profit if you take great care to cultivate the vines properly. So the bottles that sell for under $4 and taste good often occur by dumb luck. The vintner has it's own vines and for some good fortune the weather was extremely favorable for growing quality grapes of a varietal they are producing.

 

The point is you need to have a buyer with a sophisticated palate that tastes every batch from a producer before accepting it. It is clear that the buyer for Seabourn is buying based on price alone. There is no way an experienced wine drinker could taste some of the wines I was served on the Sojourn and claim they were of good quality. Some were absolutely disgusting.

[Roxburgh]

I completely agree that the quality of the wine is most important, but price is often related to quality. The vintners of the cheap wine often don't have their own vines, but instead buy the juice by the tanker truck. The juice has quality ratings. You can't sell wine at under $4 a bottle at a profit if you buy the better quality juice. If the vintner has it's own vines, you can't sell wine at under $4 a bottle at a profit if you take great care to cultivate the vines properly. So the bottles that sell for under $4 and taste good often occur by dumb luck. The vintner has it's own vines and for some good fortune the weather was extremely favorable for growing quality grapes of a varietal they are producing.

 

The point is you need to have a buyer with a sophisticated palate that tastes every batch from a producer before accepting it. It is clear that the buyer for Seabourn is buying based on price alone. There is no way an experienced wine drinker could taste some of the wines I was served on the Sojourn and claim they were of good quality. Some were absolutely disgusting.

 

This is an interesting post.

 

I am curious as to how and who buys wine for Seabourn. Do they have a centralized purchasing department? Or do they have regional buyers given that Seabourn will load wine along with other stores at various ports around the world? Or perhaps a mix of the two with, for example, a world-wide contract with Santa Margharita and local contracts in different regions?

[johnnycruise]

Seabourn only seems to purchase "local" wines on request. On last month's Greece/Turkey cruise there were none. I sampled a couple of Greek wines during port visits and they were quite nice "summertime" wines. At about 15 Euros a bottle at a restaurant, Seabourn could obtain it from a market at half that price. That being said, the wine stewards were always happy to bring whichever stocked wine they had on board without batting an eye even if it wasn't the selection of the day.

 

I've also been on several French Riviera Seabourn cruises and there were no Provencal wines on board until I mentioned it to the bar manager. He was happy to stock a case and it went very fast.

 

In my opinion, adding a couple of "itinerary-specific" wines would add to the travel experience.

[Roxburgh]

Seabourn only seems to purchase "local" wines on request. On last month's Greece/Turkey cruise there were none. I sampled a couple of Greek wines during port visits and they were quite nice "summertime" wines. At about 15 Euros a bottle at a restaurant, Seabourn could obtain it from a market at half that price. That being said, the wine stewards were always happy to bring whichever stocked wine they had on board without batting an eye even if it wasn't the selection of the day.

 

I've also been on several French Riviera Seabourn cruises and there were no Provencal wines on board until I mentioned it to the bar manager. He was happy to stock a case and it went very fast.

 

In my opinion, adding a couple of "itinerary-specific" wines would add to the travel experience.

 

Very true. We sampled some Turkish wines when we were in Istanbul - never having drunk Turkish wine before - and I was rather pleasantly surprised by how good they were.

 

It would be nice if the head Sommelier had the discretion to buy locally in the same way the chef does. In fact, Seabourn could add 'shopping with the Sommelier' to 'shopping with the chef' as an activity.

[margbem]

On our Legend cruise four weeks ago wine was taken on in Sicily and in Malta. These wines were then served at dinner in the MDR and it was really appreciated, at least by our table, to be able to sample the local wines.

[wripro]

I suspect they can do that kind of thing on the triplets but not the larger ships.

[Flamin_June]

On our Legend cruise four weeks ago wine was taken on in Sicily and in Malta. These wines were then served at dinner in the MDR and it was really appreciated, at least by our table, to be able to sample the local wines.

Sicily = good

Malta - having worked there once and sampled my fair share, not so sure

[margbem]

Sicily = good

Malta - having worked there once and sampled my fair share, not so sure

 

That was exactly our opinion after having tasted them!

[Mr Luxury]

Local wines have always been purchased by the bar manager if he is running low on stock.

Local wines are often good value and a very drinkable wine can be had and paired with food if the bar manager knows what to look for.

[claranda]

No, no, Seabourn! Please don't give us Turkish wine! We suffer it all year round and are hoping to get some reasonable French, New World (as in Oz and NZ), Italian and Spanish bottles on board.

[lincslady]

No, no, Seabourn! Please don't give us Turkish wine! We suffer it all year round and are hoping to get some reasonable French, New World (as in Oz and NZ), Italian and Spanish bottles on board.

 

IMO the most palatable wines on board tend to be the new world ones (unless you like the ubiquitous Pinot Grigio) including some from Oz, NZ, and the odd one from Chile or California. Apart from some time ago having a great Chateauneuf du Pape, and the not too bad white Louis Latour, nothing from France or Italy has appealed. We even like a Mondavi chardonnay - normally would not touch his wines, but found that reasonably good. The NZ sauvignon blanc is normally Wingspan, specially bottled for SB, and is OK but not exciting - sometimes they have some of the better ones on board, always worth asking. They go down well with us at lunchtime, outside when the sun is shining!:)

[Chairsin]

It is the Bar Manager -- not the sommelier-- who has the authority to purchase wines at ports of call during a cruise. When in Bordeaux on the Pride in May ours purchased and entire taxi full of wine -- yum!

[dalliowner]

Whilst on the Spirit some years ago, I was talking to the sommelier about grappa. The next port was in italy and that evening he appeared with a bottle of the grappa I was discussing, he had gone ashore and bought a bottle

[claranda]

IMO the most palatable wines on board tend to be the new world ones (unless you like the ubiquitous Pinot Grigio) including some from Oz, NZ, and the odd one from Chile or California. Apart from some time ago having a great Chateauneuf du Pape, and the not too bad white Louis Latour, nothing from France or Italy has appealed. We even like a Mondavi chardonnay - normally would not touch his wines, but found that reasonably good. The NZ sauvignon blanc is normally Wingspan, specially bottled for SB, and is OK but not exciting - sometimes they have some of the better ones on board, always worth asking. They go down well with us at lunchtime, outside when the sun is shining!:)

 

Thanks for those tips, Lincslady, we'll make a note. Louis Latour sounds good, and we're keen on French Burgundy, so will ask and see if we receive! In November in the Med it's more likely to be reds required, I guess.

[lincslady]

Thanks for those tips, Lincslady, we'll make a note. Louis Latour sounds good, and we're keen on French Burgundy, so will ask and see if we receive! In November in the Med it's more likely to be reds required, I guess.

 

Should just clarify - the white Latour wine is not Burgundy, but a 'vin de l'Ardeche'. However, it is to us pretty palatable, and others have said the same. Unless you like cheap rose, avoid the J.P. Chenet - although some do like it!;)

[marazul]

Unless you like cheap rose, avoid the J.P. Chenet - although some do like it!;)

 

The Chenet is not great, but it is miles better than the horrid "white Zinfandel" that SB also carries. Why they buy that swill, we'll never know.

 

If you like rose, ask what else they have on board. Often there have been much better alternatives.

[marchanxiety]

Just disembarked from Boston-Montreal on the Soujourn. The reds were very much improved from last January in SE Asia on the Pride. Quite a welcome change.

[sananda]

Just disembarked from Boston-Montreal on the Soujourn. The reds were very much improved from last January in SE Asia on the Pride. Quite a welcome change.

 

Can you provide examples of what you were served? That way we can judge for ourselves if the quality is actually improving. No offense, but there are too many Seabourn apologists and cheerleaders on cruise critic.

 

I can provide an extensive list of the swill they tried to pass off on the Sojourn mediterranean cruise I was on this spring. Charles Shaw chardonay, cabernet sauvignon and merlot, the best that can be said about the bunch is that they won't make you gag. Il Valore zinfandel, tastes like it was fermented with dirt. La Boca malbec, dirty wine with overpowering spice reminiscent of the cheap hot peppers from the sandwich shop. Egri Bikaver Bull's blood, probably actual bull's blood boiled with piss and vinegar along with a wet skunk finish. Yellowtail Shiraz-Cabernet, a simple sweetish wine with no bouquet. The whole line up from Rosemount, need I say more? By the end of the cruise I expected them to present us with Franzia, Blue Nun, Thunderbird, MD 20/20, Cisco red and Wild Irish rose.

[rustymerle]

The whole discussion of wine on this thread has become BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One would rather hear about things that went well on the voyages and not about how the wines reminded them of piss...

So, how was the caviar? Oh, it was complimentary...gee, how refreshing!

Move on people!

[marchanxiety]

Sananda, I didn't make a list, but I do not recall seeing ANY of the wines you quoted during our trip. On our January trip Sirius was one of the drinkable reds. It was not one of the better ones this time. I was VERY critical of the reds on our January cruise in Asia.

[sananda]

The whole discussion of wine on this thread has become BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One would rather hear about things that went well on the voyages and not about how the wines reminded them of piss...

So, how was the caviar? Oh, it was complimentary...gee, how refreshing!

Move on people!

 

An unabashed apologist. What's the point of a discussion forum where we are only able to talk about the things that went well?

 

There is also no point in the "remember the good' ol days" posts. If you honestly think the house wines are good, then fine, we can agree to disagree. But if you don't, then speak up. The frustrating thing is that I don't think anyone from Seabourn cares about anything that is said on cruise critic. So please, complain directly to Seabourn. I did and they gave me thousands of dollars off of a future cruise. I would have preferred if they had kept the money and promised to actually address the problems we had on our cruise. Until enough people complain, I don't see them changing a thing. They will continue to serve wine that on average costs less than $3 a bottle wholesale. Yummy! What luxury!

[Host Dan]

The whole discussion of wine on this thread has become BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One would rather hear about things that went well on the voyages and not about how the wines reminded them of piss...

So, how was the caviar? Oh, it was complimentary...gee, how refreshing!

Move on people!

If you don't like this thread, I would advise you to overlook the posts in the future.

 

Host Dan

[themed4me]

Sananda, I find your candor a breath of fresh air on this board. Glad you are taking the time to comment.