Seabourn's "house wines"

[marazul]

I'll drink to that!

Now, could someone ask the sommelier nicely for the new list? It would be great to post it and compare it to the last one.

[wwinfl91]

I would be interested to see if they have any new Rieslings.

 

Have a great next cruise.

[diebroke]

Well, I think it is too soon for us wine snobs to declare victory. When I left the Pride on Oct. 15, the included wine list was similar to the list posted earlier on this thread. I would not say the wine was “bad” and I would agree that you can find wines that are “drinkable.” I don’t think “not bad” and “drinkable” are terms that I would associate with “fine wines.” What would happen if the best anyone could say about the food was that it was “not bad” and that it was “edible”? For me, as a wine snob, the wine served with a serious meal should be serious. The included wines I had were not serious. The daily wines I have at home (an example of which I am consuming as I type) are more interesting, more complex, more expensive, and better enhance the food experience than any included wine I had on the Pride. The “daily food” I have at home, and the weekly dining-out food I have, or even the quarterly special meals I have are not as good as my daily dinners on the Pride. The food was simply outstanding. The wine was drinkable. That’s not a combination that works for me. If I were a chef, I would want my food paired with better wines. As I expressed on another thread, even the Gold List wines were suspect. It listed a 2002 Brunello & a 2002 Chateauneuf du Pape. Many of the premium producers did not bother to produce a wine in that vintage.

 

So, I will end with positives.

The sommelier, Lena, as I expressed on another thread, was outstanding.

At lunch on the Veranda, I consumed copious quantities of white & rose wines that were just fine. The weather was unusually hot, the wines were cold & wet, and paired well with my burger & fries. I was happy. I preferred the wine to the water.

 

This is not an issue that would cause me to move to another cruise line. But I still think they should do better if they really want to differentiate themselves as a luxury cruise line. I’ve tried Regent & would not go back. Food & service trump wine. I'd just like to have food, service, AND wine. Is that asking too much?

Perhaps they should take the money they saved from dropping Charlie Palmer & apply it to the wine budget.

 

Finally, wwinfl91, I didn’t notice any new or old Rieslings.

[secoma4]

Couldn't help but respond to this topic, particularly in the context of the Australin wine included (being a South Australian and living near some great wine producing areas).

I was surprised when, on our recent cruises (Quest and Sojourn) the wines offered included some from "Milton Park". The appellation on the label, if I recall correctly, was "Southern Australia". This is not a designated wine region. It indicates that what was in the bottle was a blend of wines from the bulk wine area renowned for producing volume, not quality.

These wines, including Milton Park, are generally produced for the CHEAP end of the market and this one retails at around $8.

We had the same experience on Silversea a year ago when they offered undrinkable bulk wine.

If Seabourn is heading down this path they are going to lose people on the way. I'm generally quite happy with the range of wines offered and can find something that is ok. It doesn't need to be premium, but it has to be better than bulk wines produced for the bottom end of the market.

[Flamin_June]

I may not know much about wine, but I know what I like. You don't have to be a wine 'snob' to realise that Seabourn's current offering , as represented in the posted list, is by and large of poor quality.

 

Presumeably it is not just the few dozen people posting their opinions about the wine here, but many, many more complaints sent directly to Seabourn that have galvanized the top management into taking some action.

 

I thought diebroke's comments were interesting and a worthwhile contribution to the debate.

[writer100]

Isn't that a bit harsh?

Well, no one can accuse me of being a wine snob. I don't have a vintage chart in my head, and the only time I read The Wine Spectator is when I find it in a doctor's waiting room. But like most of us, I believe I can tell a good wine from a not-so-good one. Which is to say, a wine I like. I'm not sure if the "fine wine" line from the SB promotion material is misleading. Just the normal hyperbole of sales material, perhaps. I can give you a real example of wine snobbery. The first time I went to London (as a very young man) I was forewarned that I might be given the honor of choosing the wine at the first night's welcoming dinner, hosted by the bureau at the Grill Room of the Connaught. I knew nothing about wine--even less than I do now--but on the flight over I eagerly scanned a book on wines--types, what went with what, and so forth. Indeed, the honor of choosing the wine at dinner --or at least the first bottle--did arrive. Proudly, and with the thin confidence of my in-flight prep, I chose a Volnay. To my embarrassment, the sommelier leaned over me and whispered,"Sir, that's a woman's burgundy."

If one can slink away while remaining seated, I accomplished that.

[MARIANH]

Isn't that a bit harsh?

. I can give you a real example of wine snobbery. The first time I went to London (as a very young man) I was forewarned that I might be given the honor of choosing the wine at the first night's welcoming dinner, hosted by the bureau at the Grill Room of the Connaught. I knew nothing about wine--even less than I do now--but on the flight over I eagerly scanned a book on wines--types, what went with what, and so forth. Indeed, the honor of choosing the wine at dinner --or at least the first bottle--did arrive. Proudly, and with the thin confidence of my in-flight prep, I chose a Volnay. To my embarrassment, the sommelier leaned over me and whispered,"Sir, that's a woman's burgundy."

If one can slink away while remaining seated, I accomplished that.

 

.................................................................................................

 

Sommeliers need to be put down from time to time. So, should it ever happen again , a suitable riposte could draw on Thurber's New Yorker cartoon. Viz - " Thank you my man ( that allways gets 'em), I agree that this is a naive domestic burgundy without breeding, but I think even you would be amused by its presumption ". Should this not be received graciously you can always suggest that he consults a taxidermist.

 

And many of Seabourn's "included" wines were indeed "fine" on my last acquaintance; but only for cleaning the drains. Either before or after consumption.

 

Wine snob, moi? No, just a buff.

 

And with Charlie Palmer now toast, perhaps it would be a good opportunity for Seabourn to use the money saved to engage Robert Parker as a wine consultant - 100/100?

[JaneBP]

Who is to say that ending Palmer's contract is a money saving move? Perhaps Eric Ripert or Gordon Ramsay will cost more.

[mariner]

I gave that list to my wine supplier.

 

He said most retail for $20 or less.

 

He said there were some very good labels on there. He also said there were many that were strictly unavailable in the US so he couldn't comment.

 

In short, not swill, and a few really good vintages.

[MARIANH]

I gave that list to my wine supplier.

 

He said most retail for $20 or less.

 

He said there were some very good labels on there. He also said there were many that were strictly unavailable in the US so he couldn't comment.

 

In short, not swill, and a few really good vintages.

............................................................................................

 

Without wishing to start a debate bottle by bottle or indeed impugn the expertise of your wine supplier, I would just make two points ( approx).

 

First, in an earlier post, I did comment that on occasions a good wine appears ( I think I used the term " slipped under the radar").

 

And second, many of the wines are very very low cost. For example Chenet rose retails at less than $5 in the UK. IMHO it tastes awful ( swill?) and the bottle is bizarre. The many comments previously on the white Zin suggest it is in the same category.

 

Price is a good marker for quality as is presentation.

 

Too many of the wines are not good and certainly not "fine" by any stretch of the English ( or American) language.

 

I rest my case.

 

Salud.

[lincslady]

Whether you are a wine connoisseur, buff or snob, or just enjoy wine, most people would recognise that the included wines, while often acceptable, are most definitely not 'fine'. My beef with Seabourn is that they, and therefore travel agents, continue to describe them thus, raising expectations which are never going to be met.

[LaPaloma]

Whether you are a wine connoisseur, buff or snob, or just enjoy wine, most people would recognise that the included wines, while often acceptable, are most definitely not 'fine'. My beef with Seabourn is that they, and therefore travel agents, continue to describe them thus, raising expectations which are never going to be met.

 

Don't you think that all considered....a doable wine is sufficient as an inclusive? They certainly have options aboard if you desire a special wine. The overall ambience and food make the trip wonderful..and that is all do to a wonderful crew and staff. IMHO, that is what makes the trip..along with a lovely ship, great destinations, and charming fellow sailors. Lola ;)

[jocar3]

Don't you think that all considered....a doable wine is sufficient as an inclusive? They certainly have options aboard if you desire a special wine. The overall ambience and food make the trip wonderful..and that is all do to a wonderful crew and staff. IMHO, that is what makes the trip..along with a lovely ship, great destinations, and charming fellow sailors. Lola ;)

Well said Lola.

[OrpingtonT]

Don't you think that all considered....a doable wine is sufficient as an inclusive?

 

I think it would be, if they did not describe those wines as "fine wines".

[MARIANH]

Don't you think that all considered....a doable wine is sufficient as an inclusive? Lola ;)

 

That might be acceptable if :

 

(a) the wines were not advertised as "fine wines" and

 

(b) the included wines on offer were actually " do able" - quite a few are/were not.

 

The ship is being spoiled for a ha'po'rth of tar.

[lincslady]

I think it would be, if they did not describe those wines as "fine wines".

 

Precisely. No more really needs to be said.

[writer100]

That might be acceptable if :

 

(a) the wines were not advertised as "fine wines" and

 

(b) the included wines on offer were actually " do able" - quite a few are/were not.

 

The ship is being spoiled for a ha'po'rth of tar.

Sir:As the mouse might knowingly approach the cheese in the trap, I hesitantly ask, what does "a h'po'rth of tar" translate to? Perhaps the answer could be in the vulgar form of language practiced--you might say "unpracticed"-- over here.

I would be remiss in not thanking you for your acidic put down of an arrogant sommelier. I have scrawled your suggestion on the cuff of the one long-sleeved shirt I intend to take aboard.

And now to another serious matter. While this thread is appropriately concerned with the potability of SB wines, there is another issue that is bar centric. My wife--the most tolerant of creatures, shy as a doe, demure as a princess-- considers most of the bar tenders aboard to lack the training and skills that would qualify them to make a Hemingway daiquiri, or a Bramble, or yes, even a margarita. In some cases, you might argue it is because the necessary lime, lemon or grapefruit juices are not freshly squeezed. Alas, I am talking of a far greater imbalance than that. Indeed, we found only one bar tender on Sojourn who was professional, and he was on station in Restaurant 2. (Although you could always go to the very small bar there, and we often did.) Yes, there several serving as bar tenders who were amiable, even warmly welcoming, but the skills required to be a mixologist were generally lacking.

I know I will not have to wait long for concurring, or opposing, views.

[lincslady]

writer100 - dare I suggest as we already have a huge amount on the wines issue you should start another thread on Seabourn House Cocktails? I promise not to join in, as neither DH or I are experts - I just enjoy my Margarita or White Lady realising that it is not as good as it would be made with fresh juice.

[Flamin_June]

halfpenny worth of tar....

a cost cutting of trivial monetary value, but with potentially significant consequences.

 

I can't think of a US equivalent

but one might say "the value of the house is being spoilt for the cost of a lick of paint"

 

Or something like that.

 

It is a old naval analogy, where a mere dab of tar might make an otherwise leaking ship watertight.

[wripro]

I'm confused. Haved these past 269 posts been about the quality of the wine or the quality of the advertising?

[MARIANH]

I'm confused. Haved these past 269 posts been about the quality of the wine or the quality of the advertising?

 

If you read all 269 you will no longer be confused.

[Flamin_June]

and one at least has been about tar - soppy ha'p'orth!

[writer100]

halfpenny worth of tar....

a cost cutting of trivial monetary value, but with potentially significant consequences.

 

I can't think of a US equivalent

but one might say "the value of the house is being spoilt for the cost of a lick of paint"

 

Or something like that.

 

It is a old naval analogy, where a mere dab of tar might make an otherwise leaking ship watertight.

Thankee, Ma'am:

The salutation above attempts to combine Robert Newton (as Long John Silver) with a Texas drawl.

Appreciate the elucidation.

[mariner]

Im a journo. I have a friend who works for Bon Appetite. He had an assignment to find great, inexpensive wines. We had much fun tasting. One of the best (and this was about 10 years ago) cost $7.

 

I took it to several dinner parties. Guests raved. I chuckled.

 

As the song goes: it ain't the meat, it's the motion that makes your mama rock.

 

I think what Seabourn is offering is pretty par for inclusive. "Fine" wines is a subjective description. Considering the buy in bulk and likely without tax, they could do better. But it ain't Asti.

[MARIANH]

Thankee, Ma'am:

The salutation above attempts to combine Robert Newton (as Long John Silver) with a Texas drawl.

.

 

Aaarrrrgh, shiver me timbers - another mixologism? A rum do I say.

 

As far as I am aware Mixology ( as in cocktail craft ) has not managed to get past our ever vigilant Border Agency officials. The only time I have heard it used in anger this side of the pond is when I have been clubbing. And this was with reference to the DJ. But I could be wrong as I don't get out much.

 

The whole issue of mixologist vvs bartender and what one should expect from either species ( or are they the same) on Seabourn is worth a thread on its own as has been suggested. No more whining about wine?

 

Over to you Writer100.