Seabourn's "house wines"

[sananda]

I cannot see Andrew Soddy, the Ececutive Chef making that kind of derogatory comment directly to a passenger...no way!!!!

 

I never atributed any negative comments to the chef. As I said above, he would only say that he did not have final say on the selection of wines on board. Any negative comments were my own opinion. I feel that the wine buyer is doing a disservice to his high quality efforts.

[loudjazz]

To (mis)quote my favourite aothor, Raymond Chandler "the world is going to hell in a paper cup" and this is just another symptom of the global descent into barbarism.

It used to be called The Yachts of Seabourn. A six star experience.

Now it's just Seabourn Cruise Line. The Ryanair of Luxury Cruising....

 

What are the better cruise lines in your opinion? I have been on only 1 SB cruise before and it was excellent but many frequent cruisers also told me they considered Seabourn the pick of the 'luxury' bunch. It will be a shame if they let the accountants run the ships as this wine thread is inferring, they've been the death of many a thriving hospitality business in the past. I shall report back after our October trip on the Pride. Gip

[Flamin_June]

Hi loudjaz

 

hmmm - I must have been feeling very grumpy at the time I wrote that. However, it was in the context of and as a response to, the posts preceding it, and at a period when there was a lot of concern about the declining quality of the wine and a general sense of cost cutting and shortchanging going on.

 

It is clear that the Head Office big boys did take notice because the general feeling now is that the wines have improved considerably, and the cost cutting and protecting of margins is rather more considered and subtle, and perhaps, in the current climate, understandable.

 

I could not recommend any other line, and would not consider another one. I like the little sisters for a variety of reasons and would never contemplate cruising on a larger ship. I have not been on Seadream - might be persuaded but it seems a little too intimate and in-your-face for me. Noble- Caledonia looks far too stuffy and pretentious.

 

I think the Seabourn product is great. Its not perfect, and, in my limited experience I have noticed some cut-back and a little decline in levels of service between 2010 and late 2011. But not enough to prevent me signing up for a TA later this year.

 

It is just annoying when you find something that is really good, and then little bits get chipped away here and there. I think the Carnival/HAL bean counters certainly had their sights on Seabourn, but there has been plenty of voiciferous resistance from the public, both here, and in correspondence to HO, that has made them reconsider to a certain extent. I expect they are not done yet, so my advice would be to book now, and if you can, book often, because it may not be the same a few years down the line.

[laryrob]

Three to arguably four "drinkable" recently on the Quest. Pleasantly surprised!

 

On separate thread ST reports NZ Stone Creek Sauv Blanc now on the Sojourn ( instead of Wingspan). Stone Creek retails approx £12 in the UK therefore should not be low price point gut rot. In fact tasting of 2011 SC reports - off dry, good nose, explosion in the mouth but somewhat disappointing short finish. Certainly worth a try.

 

as I indicted before we always bring 6-10 bottles on board with us so are rarely disappointed with the wine! if nec-i do Makers mark w/a steak!

[Smartcookie]

Three to arguably four "drinkable" recently on the Quest. Pleasantly surprised!

 

On separate thread ST reports NZ Stone Creek Sauv Blanc now on the Sojourn ( instead of Wingspan). Stone Creek retails approx £12 in the UK therefore should not be low price point gut rot. In fact tasting of 2011 SC reports - off dry, good nose, explosion in the mouth but somewhat disappointing short finish. Certainly worth a try.

 

My husband and I thought the Sauvignon Blanc and the Cabs on the Quest last week were very drinkable. I thought the Pinot Noir was a little dry. My husband is a collector and tried a chardonnay at Restaurant 2 that we found out later was $31/glass :eek:. According to him it was a about a 300% markup. The house wines are just fine thank you, otherwise, the Ketel one martinis were perfect. ;)

[sananda]

My husband and I thought the Sauvignon Blanc and the Cabs on the Quest last week were very drinkable. I thought the Pinot Noir was a little dry. My husband is a collector and tried a chardonnay at Restaurant 2 that we found out later was $31/glass :eek:. According to him it was a about a 300% markup. The house wines are just fine thank you, otherwise, the Ketel one martinis were perfect. ;)

 

I might have believed you, except for the comment about vodka martinis. You've just mentioned the dirty little 5 letter word (vodka) that will make traditional martini purists reach for their torches and pitchforks, and now we will all have to seriously question your taste. ;) By the way, has anyone ever been able to get Hendrick's on board?

 

As far as the wine list goes, our friends get back in a week or so from a Seabourn cruise. I'll ask them how things currently stand.

[smilin jack]

I guess I am the last person to be talking about wine (I don't know if my pallet has ever tasted anything). At home we drink a California Red Wine, "Menage a Trois". I think it is very good. It costs about $7 at Costco. It shows what we know about wine, however I do know what I like.

I have had over the years some very expensive wines and have found some ok and some not so.

We are going on our third Christmas/new year cruise this year on the Quest, and I am sure the wines we drink will be ok. They have been in the past.

 

Smilin' "what is a pallet anyway" Jack

[marazul]

I guess I am the last person to be talking about wine (I don't know if my pallet has ever tasted anything). At home we drink a California Red Wine, "Menage a Trois". I think it is very good. It costs about $7 at Costco. It shows what we know about wine, however I do know what I like.

I have had over the years some very expensive wines and have found some ok and some not so.

We are going on our third Christmas/new year cruise this year on the Quest, and I am sure the wines we drink will be ok. They have been in the past.

 

Smilin' "what is a pallet anyway" Jack

 

I'm sure your "pallet" has never tasted anything, but your "palate" might have.

[smilin jack]

I'm sure your "pallet" has never tasted anything, but your "palate" might have

 

There you go....shows what I know.:confused:

[Smartcookie]

BTW, they had Patron Gold (if Tequila's your thing) for a very reasonable upcharge - only $6.50. :)

[marazul]

there you go....shows what i know.:confused:

 

. ;)

[Emperor Norton]

I might have believed you, except for the comment about vodka martinis. You've just mentioned the dirty little 5 letter word (vodka) that will make traditional martini purists reach for their torches and pitchforks, and now we will all have to seriously question your taste. ;) By the way, has anyone ever been able to get Hendrick's on board?

 

As far as the wine list goes, our friends get back in a week or so from a Seabourn cruise. I'll ask them how things currently stand.

 

I was able to get Hendricks for my cabin. I then relocated it to the Skybar.

[sananda]

I was able to get Hendricks for my cabin. I then relocated it to the Skybar.

 

I was unable to get Hendricks for my cabin on the Sojourn this spring. There was none on board. I did not request it prior to the cruise, because I thought they might have it in the bars. I am glad to hear you were able to get it. It will be a tough choice for the next cruise. Do I want my bourbon, or do I want my martini.

 

Our friends Sharon and Ken just returned from a 14 day trip with Seabourn and were more disappointed with the house wines than we were on our springtime cruise. They were shocked by how inexpensive the offered house wines were. In fact, they were actually offended by the low brow swill considering the hype about Seabourn being a luxurious all-inclusive vacation. They agreed with us that the poor quality wines significantly detracted from the excellent food. The word Sharon used to describe the wine selection was "abysmal". I neglected to ask them about the champagne, which I thought was pretty good considering the cost. For perspective, Ken is a CIA trained chef, is knowledgeable enough about wine to be a sommelier, and together they own a Michelin rated restaurant.

 

I am struggling to understand two things about Seabourn's alcoholic offerings. 1. The liquor offerings in the bars were of good quality. Why the discordance in quality between the bar and house wines? Is that much more wine consumed on board? The bars were certainly crowded on the Sojourn and people seemed to drink a lot. 2. Why would they do anything to detract from one of their strongest selling points, the excellent food?My recollection is that many of the wines were absolutely terrible on the palate.

[themed4me]

Sananda, you and your friends are absolutely right about the wines. This has been a blind spot for some time for Seabourn. Unfortunately there are guests who don't care/know about much about food pairings or about wine in general, and a number of these seem hell-bent on giving feedback that the swill is "good enough" for them. These loyal apologists do not help Seabourn or us.

[margbem]

We have just returned from the Legend and thought that the wines were significantly better than last year's offerings but the champagne is undrinkable - acidic and nasty. It is the same blue label Nicolas Feuillatte offering as served on Jet2.com, a cut price airline in the UK. Just once on the last day we saw a different champagne being served during Trivia and so asked for that one when we went in the Club before dinner. It was still a cheap one which we have bought from a warehouse style store in the UK but better than the NF. On our comment card we said that we complained last year about the champers and were disappointed to see it still being served. Come on Seabourn - up your game a bit!

 

It was good to taste Sicilian and Maltese wines taken on board during our cruise.

[Chairsin]

It is always a good idea to get to know the Bar Manager( not to be confused with bartender) because he/she can tell you what odd end lots they have or what interesting wines they may have picked up during port visits. We were very fortunate to run into our friend Maciek on our recent cruise and he took very good care of us.Of course it helps that his mid cruise shopping spot was Bordeaux!And yes, I do wish they would return to the Monopole champagne --NF is not our cup of tea either( ok, before Stamfordian pipes up but of course if forced to drink that or nothing i'll drink it).

[jam52]

Sananda, you and your friends are absolutely right about the wines. This has been a blind spot for some time for Seabourn. Unfortunately there are guests who don't care/know about much about food pairings or about wine in general, and a number of these seem hell-bent on giving feedback that the swill is "good enough" for them. These loyal apologists do not help Seabourn or us.

 

My friend and I both order the Conoussiers package so the four of us share two bottles of premium wines at dinner. We will drink the complimentary wines at lunch or the third bottle at dinner. I guess I understand in a very price competive product why they would not serve high end wines to people who might discard them, leave them on the table, when they go to dinner, etc. I have noticed a lot of people claiming they could buy those wines for $2-4. They have always had Santa Margarita as a complimentary Pinot Grigio. That is widely available, and I don't think I have seen it under $20 in a store or $40 in a US restaurant. I was not familiar with the other labels but doubted that the Pinot Grigio was the most expensive wine on the complimentary list.

[johnnycruise]

I was able to get Hendricks for my cabin. I then relocated it to the Skybar.

 

We also had Hendrick's in our minibar on the Odyssey. Hendrick's was also available in the Club and in the Observation Bar, but it was always kept locked away in the cabinet or hidden out of view. Tequila was lacking ... only had Sauza and Jose Cuervo as comp. choices - nothing 100% agave. Patron available at an upcharge ($6.50/2 oz. if I recall correctly, with silver, reposado and añejo all at the same price).

 

Wine quality is OK, but could be improved. American chardonnay seemed to be limited to Robert Mondavi "California" (not Napa Valley), so we drank either Petit Chablis or Grand Ardèche - not overly impressed with either. At lunch they poured a lot of the cheap JP Chenet rosé. Interesting Südtirol/Alto Adige pinot noir that one of the bartenders used to make a great sangria.

[Roxburgh]

We also had Hendrick's in our minibar on the Odyssey. Hendrick's was also available in the Club and in the Observation Bar, but it was always kept locked away in the cabinet or hidden out of view. Tequila was lacking ... only had Sauza and Jose Cuervo as comp. choices - nothing 100% agave. Patron available at an upcharge ($6.50/2 oz. if I recall correctly, with silver, reposado and añejo all at the same price).

 

Wine quality is OK, but could be improved. American chardonnay seemed to be limited to Robert Mondavi "California" (not Napa Valley), so we drank either Petit Chablis or Grand Ardèche - not overly impressed with either. At lunch they poured a lot of the cheap JP Chenet rosé. Interesting Südtirol/Alto Adige pinot noir that one of the bartenders used to make a great sangria.

 

The Chenet Rose was fine at lunch and especially sitting outside with the sun beating down. I would have preferred a Rose de Provence but the Chenet was okay.

 

The other wines were pretty average. From memory, there was an okay Gavi and a reasonable Shiraz. And there was always the vastly overrated (and usually overpriced) Santa Margarita.

[Chairsin]

We always drink rose on Seabourn at lunch but do not like JP Chenet. So far we have been lucky and they have always found a few bottle of Rose de Provence or similar dry rose for us. With respect to buying the wine packages you do need to be careful. On our holiday Quest cruise this year we told the sommelier early in the cruise which wines we wanted when we bought the package. The first wine was of a different vintage than that we had been told was avaialble when we purchased it and later in the cruise they told us they did not even have any bottles of one of the other wines we originally selected.So I guess I felt it was a little bit of bait and switch. While it was not a big deal it has made us less inclined to buy another package again.

[sultan_sfo]

Coals To Newcastle?

Yes -- in Caifornia Santa Margherita Pinot Grigio may cost in the $20's but in Italy / Europe we have bought it for equivalent of $11.

 

...

They have always had Santa Margarita as a complimentary Pinot Grigio. That is widely available, and I don't think I have seen it under $20 in a store or $40 in a US restaurant. I was not familiar with the other labels but doubted that the Pinot Grigio was the most expensive wine on the complimentary list.

 

_________________

Agree -- and used to be heavily advertised too.

 

...

And there was always the vastly overrated (and usually overpriced) Santa Margarita.

[wripro]

That's because in the US you are paying a premium for Santa Margharita's advertising.

[Emperor Norton]

We also had Hendrick's in our minibar on the Odyssey. Hendrick's was also available in the Club and in the Observation Bar, but it was always kept locked away in the cabinet or hidden out of view. Tequila was lacking ... only had Sauza and Jose Cuervo as comp. choices - nothing 100% agave. Patron available at an upcharge ($6.50/2 oz. if I recall correctly, with silver, reposado and añejo all at the same price).

 

Wine quality is OK, but could be improved. American chardonnay seemed to be limited to Robert Mondavi "California" (not Napa Valley), so we drank either Petit Chablis or Grand Ardèche - not overly impressed with either. At lunch they poured a lot of the cheap JP Chenet rosé. Interesting Südtirol/Alto Adige pinot noir that one of the bartenders used to make a great sangria.

 

Please as bad as wine is don't get me started on Tequila and Bourbon at sea ;)

[themed4me]

It's not the price of the wine, its the quality.

 

There are many drinkable and appealing value wines that match well with food -- it's just they do not tend to be served on Seabourn ships.

 

It's a buying problem, not necessarily a price-point problem.

[Emperor Norton]

It's not the price of the wine, its the quality.

 

There are many drinkable and appealing value wines that match well with food -- it's just they do not tend to be served on Seabourn ships.

 

It's a buying problem, not necessarily a price-point problem.

 

That's what I tried to get across to Karl.