Important Note concerning traveling with non-immediate family minors

[CaptData]

I have always had my documents returned. Passports and letters of custody. I travel with my grandkids alot and no matter where I go they return it. I always have them with me when I leave as they could ask for them at any point in the return. US customs are a stickler for them at airports. (I think it is because I'm in my 50s and they are 10 and 14.

[mysparky]

The CBP agent was ridiculously out of line. I hope you reported this incident. If you haven't, please do.

 

The gate agent called over his supervisor, who then called over the next level of authority. It was that next "level" that agreed to allow the phone calls take place. In lieu of this, they wanted a copy of the signed notarized letter faxed to them. I explained that this was impossible as my sister and brother-in-law (nephew's parents) were out of town and wouldn't have access to it. They spoke with my older nephews (18 & 20) and they confirmed the story that their parents were out of town. Honestly, we were lucky that we even got a hold of my BIL because they were in a remote area of Vermont where cell service is unreliable!

 

When all was said and done, I asked him why all of the fuss and they said "child trafficking".

 

In the end, everything turned out ok. We made our flight and it was a learning experience. We are heading to Costa Rica for our next trip and I'll certainly make sure all of my paperwork is in order for that trip for both leaving the country as well as returning!!!

[wcook]

The number of children that disappear is alarming.

 

Exactly how many children are disappearing on closed loop cruises? Is "children disappearing on closed loop cruises" really something to be alarmed about?

[matj2000]

He is already in the country, what are they going to do deport him?

I wouldn't take any crap from them, the Border Patrol is only a notch above the TSA..

[wcook]

When all was said and done, I asked him why all of the fuss and they said "child trafficking".

This is a 15-year old getting off the same ship he got on a week earlier. There is zero child trafficking risk here. The CBP agents are either incredibly stupid, or incredibly out of line.

 

I know you probably just want to forget about this and move on. But fining out how to and filing a formal complaint would be wonderful.

[TWELVEOHONE]

This was started years ago although it appears to be enforced more lately.

If you have a minor that is not part of the family and/or has a different last name you must prove that you have permission from the parents to take him or her with you.

 

Too many children were taken across the border during and after a custody battle.

 

I have taken my grandkids (different last name) on a cruise and use the following for. Has worked every time

 

LETTER OF AGREEMENT

 

I __________________________________________________________ understand that

PARENT'S NAME

 

my child(ren)__________________________________________________will be traveling

CHILD'S NAME

 

to ___________________________________________ on ______________________

DESTINATION DATE OF TRAVEL DEPARTURE DATE

 

with___________________________________________________________________

ACCOMPANYING ADULT(S)

 

Their expected date of return is______________________________________________.

 

Signed_________________________________________________________________

PARENT'S NAME

 

Address:________________________________________________________________

 

City/State/Zip____________________________________________________________

 

Telephone/Contact:________________________________________________________

 

Witness:________________________________________________________________

 

Witness Print Name:_______________________________________________________

 

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

 

COUNTY OF _________________

 

On this _______day of _____________, 20____, before me A NOTARY PUBLIC, the

 

undersigned officer, personally appeared _____________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________________,

 

known to me (or satisfactorily proven) to be the person_whose name_ _ IS_ subscribed to the within instruments, and acknowledged that __he_ executed the same for the purpose therein contained.

 

_______________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC

[crazy4themouse]

I guess I'm the odd one out on this situation. I think all the cruiselines should be obligated to obtain the notarized document and to keep it readily available. The number of children that disappear is alarming. We have traveled for several years with non-family members who are minors. We were on FOS in July and took my Grandson's friend (17 year old). I had multiple notarized documents and we had a desk agent who should have been in an assisted living community, not working this desk. He was upset that we wouldn't agree to be in separate lines, since the 17 year old was not in our cabin. He ranted on and on about it delaying us and everyone in line if he had to link all these different credit cards (total of three). He never once mentioned the notarized document I had folded in my hand. I sent a letter to RCCL stating this was irresponsible and could result in some serious consequences if someone meant harm to a minor or was violating a court document on guardianship. I feel they have to be more careful. I received a call from RCCL asking for the name of the agent and explaining that these jobs (at Port Canaveral) are held by employees of an outside vendor and are not RCCL employees...which, to me is irrelevant if an incident occurs. Better safe than sorry.

 

 

I echo what wcook asked -- When have you heard of a kidnapping on a closed-loop cruise?? I agree that they should ask for such documentation at border crossings by land and at airports, but not for closed-loop cruises.

 

"Better safe than sorry" might work great for you, but there are an *awful lot* of single parents like myself who would get caught in that net unnecessarily. I have rare and infrequent contact with my ex. He did okay my son's passport several years ago, and since both parents have to approve the passport, then there should be ZERO more hassle after that. My friend and cruise buddy's ex is in prison far away. How exactly should she get a letter from him? And more importantly, why in the %$@# should she have to ask permission to take her own son on vacation??

 

Luckily, the cruise lines, who did used to require a notarized letter from the absent parent, realized that not only did that not make sense to require on a closed-loop cruise, but that our money spends just as nicely as the next person's.

 

I agree whole-heartedly with wcook -- File a complaint, and file it yesterday. They had no reason to put all of you through that, especially since you held US passports.

 

 

-gina-

[uksimonusa]

This was started years ago although it appears to be enforced more lately.

If you have a minor that is not part of the family and/or has a different last name you must prove that you have permission from the parents to take him or her with you.

 

Too many children were taken across the border during and after a custody battle.

 

I have taken my grandkids (different last name) on a cruise and use the following for. Has worked every time

 

LETTER OF AGREEMENT

 

I __________________________________________________________ understand that

PARENT'S NAME

 

my child(ren)__________________________________________________will be traveling

CHILD'S NAME

 

to ___________________________________________ on ______________________

DESTINATION DATE OF TRAVEL DEPARTURE DATE

 

with___________________________________________________________________

ACCOMPANYING ADULT(S)

 

Their expected date of return is______________________________________________.

 

Signed_________________________________________________________________

PARENT'S NAME

 

Address:________________________________________________________________

 

City/State/Zip____________________________________________________________

 

Telephone/Contact:________________________________________________________

 

Witness:________________________________________________________________

 

Witness Print Name:_______________________________________________________

 

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

 

COUNTY OF _________________

 

On this _______day of _____________, 20____, before me A NOTARY PUBLIC, the

 

undersigned officer, personally appeared _____________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________________,

 

known to me (or satisfactorily proven) to be the person_whose name_ _ IS_ subscribed to the within instruments, and acknowledged that __he_ executed the same for the purpose therein contained.

 

_______________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC

 

This is the type of letter you need to take the minors OUT of the country, the OP had problems on their return, If this was child trafficking, then were BCP worried that the kids were not good enough and the OP was tring to get them back into the US and dump them? Very Strange

[njmomof2]

We just returned from a closed loop cruise from NYC to Canada. Now Canada is notorious for requiring proof of knowledge by a non present parent if only one parent is travelling with children. We've had this happen several times at the Canadian border crossing up in Niagara Falls.

 

I had my husband sign a letter indicating his awareness of our trip and had it notarized. Had it with me in my folder, along with our passports and cruise documents. No one at check in asked for it. And I never was asked for it, not when we docked in Canada, not when we came home.

 

I will continue to have a new one prepared whenever the boys and I travel alone, but to date, I have only been asked for it once....and that was crossing the border into Canada as mentioned above.

[Starry Eyes]

This is the type of letter you need to take the minors OUT of the country, the OP had problems on their return, If this was child trafficking, then were BCP worried that the kids were not good enough and the OP was tring to get them back into the US and dump them? Very Strange

 

Exactly. I understand the concern when outbound. At that point this family provided the notarized document. Unfortunately they didn't get the documents back.

 

This episode occurred on the return. Did CBP think the family took one teen out of the country, left him and brought back another teen of roughly the same age? Well, some parents may sometimes dream of trading their teen during the worst moments, but did CBP really think it happened? And if CBP did think that, how would the notarized letter rule out that child trafficking scenario? It sounds like a CBP agent had a checklist and a supervisor had to over-ride the checklist. I am glad the teen got back home safely, but I am sad for the emotional moments he and his family had to endure. if I travel with minors sans parents I will be sure to get extra copies of the notarized letter, just in case.

[bethco]

Whether they try to take your documentation concerning non-immediate family minors seems to be determined by the individual who checks you in when you are in line. I have taken our daughter's best friend on several cruises with us. The first time, the girl checking us in said "I have to keep this." I replied that she did not get to keep it, though she was welcome to make a photocopy to keep. It was my proof that I had her parents' permission for her to travel with us and seek medical treatment in case of an emergency. So she handed it back to me and I kept it locked in the safe with our passports. The next time, the agent looked at it and handed it back along with our passports.

Just as you can get two different answers on the phone, you can get two different responses from check-in agents.

[Nebr.cruiser]

We took 7 grandkids on a cruise in January and had all the necessary documents, which RCI did examine very carefully at the gate; but, they did not keep a copy of the minor permission form, or any of the forms. I did not have two copies of everything.

 

We also had to show them to the customs agent on leaving the cruise, but they barely glanced at them.

 

Besides that, we had to show the notarized permission letters so that the kids could do any activity, like kid's club, rock wall climbing, ice skating, etc. We only had to show them once for each thing, though.

[SusieV]

The reason they give you grief coming back into the country is because in custody cases, sometimes a parent will kidnap their own children and leave the country. Then they try to sneak back in and change names, etc so the other spouse can't find the child. So they don't really look as hard at people leaving home as for people coming back in.

 

This is the explanation we were given when I was chatting with a Customs agent. My husband travels frequently for work so I travel alone with our son to meet him but we always come home together.

[centurycruiser]

We've taken our DGD on 4 cruises this year, two with RCI and two with CCL. We've had notarized authorization letters each time but no one asked for them on any of the cruises.

 

On the first cruise I completed a separate immigration form for my DGD as her last name is different. The immigration officer told me I didn't need a separate form, so, each of the subsequent cruises I've only used one form.

 

We plan to take her again in December and will have a form. We'll see if we need it then.

 

Too bad the only constant in dealing with gov't types is they're inconsistent.

[johneeo]

It sounds like a nightmare ending to your cruise.

 

But I have a dumb question. If they won't let you disembark, what in the world do they do with you? :confused: I'm with the majority here - I can understand checking thoroughly when you embark, but giving you grief when you come back doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

Thank you for asking that. My curiosity also.

 

Good to see our Customs and Border Patrol on the case. This kid could have been an Al Quada terrorist.:rolleyes:

[Kycruisefan]

[quote name='TWELVEOHONE']This was started years ago although it appears to be enforced more lately.
If you have a minor that is not part of the family and/or has a different last name you must prove that you have permission from the parents to take him or her with you.

Too many children were taken across the border during and after a custody battle.

I have taken my grandkids (different last name) on a cruise and use the following for. Has worked every time

LETTER OF AGREEMENT

I __________________________________________________________ understand that
PARENT'S NAME

my child(ren)__________________________________________________will be traveling
CHILD'S NAME

to ___________________________________________ on ______________________
DESTINATION DATE OF TRAVEL DEPARTURE DATE

with___________________________________________________________________
ACCOMPANYING ADULT(S)

Their expected date of return is______________________________________________.

Signed_________________________________________________________________
PARENT'S NAME

Address:________________________________________________________________

City/State/Zip____________________________________________________________

Telephone/Contact:________________________________________________________

Witness:________________________________________________________________

Witness Print Name:_______________________________________________________

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

COUNTY OF _________________

On this _______day of _____________, 20____, before me A NOTARY PUBLIC, the

undersigned officer, personally appeared _____________________________________

______________________________________________________________________,

known to me (or satisfactorily proven) to be the person_whose name_ _ IS_ subscribed to the within instruments, and acknowledged that __he_ executed the same for the purpose therein contained.

_______________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC[/quote]

Okay, maybe dumb question, but for a cruise, what do you put as the destination in the letter above if you are stopping at several ports?

[KreiderCarter]

CBP was doing their job correctly by detaining this family for a brief time. It was good that the matter was worked out fairly quickly.

*CBP is Customs and Border PROTECTION, not Patrol.

[wcook]

[quote name='KreiderCarter']CBP was doing their job correctly by detaining this family for a brief time. It was good that the matter was worked out fairly quickly.

*CBP is Customs and Border PROTECTION, not Patrol.[/QUOTE] What protection is going on here? Agents harrassed and detained somebody against their will for not having a piece of paper that isn't required. Where is that in their job description?

[wcook]

[quote name='SusieV']The reason they give you grief coming back into the country is because in custody cases, sometimes a parent will kidnap their own children and leave the country. Then they try to sneak back in and change names, etc so the other spouse can't find the child.[/QUOTE] I can't say that never happens. But not on a closed loop cruise where the child is traveling under their own name with passport, which is the case here.

[kitten2729]

Something similar happened to us a few years ago - sailing from Southampton to Barcelona. Gave a copy to Royal Caribbean and everything was fine onboard. First leg of our flight from Barcelona - Heathrow was fine, when we were transferring onto our internal flight - Heathrow to Edinburgh, immigration needed to see proof that we could bring my neices back into the country.
I had packed the letter in our hold baggage and explained this. They would only let us proceed with our journey once they had spoke to the girls mother, luckily she was available for them to speak to.
You can imagine how their mother reacted receiving a call from Heathrow immigration about her girls.
Luckily the girls were oblivious to what was going on.
Will not make the same mistake again.

[KreiderCarter]

wcook

Do you have a copy of the CBP Officers's job duties? No, well I didn't think there were actual facts to support your statement earlier.

I believe the original poster meant for this to be an educational post, not a bashing thread of RCCL, CBP, etc. Hopefully others reading it will learn from this person's experience.

[lcantw3658]

I am taking my five year old Godson. His paternal grandfather will also be on the cruise. We have the travel doc (actually the one listed above) and we have a separate one for both the mom and dad (they are divorced). We had the doc made out for both my name and the grandfathers name so that no matter which one of us is with the child it should not be a problem to sign activity waivers and such. We also have a copy of the minors birth certificate
We only got one letter from each parent- can check-in make a copy so that I can keep the original? It is extremely difficult to get ahold of the father so getting another one would be hard.
thanks :confused:

[bus man]

[quote name='lcantw3658']I am taking my five year old Godson. His paternal grandfather will also be on the cruise. We have the travel doc (actually the one listed above) and we have a separate one for both the mom and dad (they are divorced). We had the doc made out for both my name and the grandfathers name so that no matter which one of us is with the child it should not be a problem to sign activity waivers and such. We also have a copy of the minors birth certificate
We only got one letter from each parent- can check-in make a copy so that I can keep the original? It is extremely difficult to get ahold of the father so getting another one would be hard.
thanks :confused:[/quote]

I don't know the answer to your specific question. But maybe you could make a copy of each letter in the presence of a notary public, who could then notarize it. I would think that would be sufficient. (Hopefully a notary public out there will correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Starry Eyes]

[quote name='SusieV']The reason they give you grief coming back into the country is because in custody cases, sometimes a parent will kidnap their own children and leave the country. Then they try to sneak back in and change names, etc so the other spouse can't find the child. So they don't really look as hard at people leaving home as for people coming back in.

This is the explanation we were given when I was chatting with a Customs agent. My husband travels frequently for work so I travel alone with our son to meet him but we always come home together.[/QUOTE]

Interesting explanation from that customs agent; sounds like a load of stuff to me, though.Of course, if a parent kidnaps a child and lives under a false name without ever leaving the country, it is hard for the spouse to find the child. Leaving the country and re-entering under false names seem much riskier than simply driving away to take up residence under the false name in far away part of the country.

I am glad the OP proved the info in hopes others can avoid such unpleasantness. It seem as if CBP should have better things to do. JMHO.

[Nebr.cruiser]

[quote name='bus man']I don't know the answer to your specific question. But maybe you could make a copy of each letter in the presence of a notary public, who could then notarize it. I would think that would be sufficient. (Hopefully a notary public out there will correct me if I'm wrong.)[/QUOTE]

As of last January they did not keep our notarized letters or birth certificates on RCI. We had 7 kids with multiple permission forms because of divorces and they examined them very carefully. But, we only had one copy of each. I don't think copies would be legally the same as the original form anyway.

Like I posted before, we needed those notarized permission forms for the kids to go to the kids club, go rock climbing, ice skate, etc.

I guess if I was crazy enough to take 7 grandkids on a cruise again, I'd make copies. (Just kidding, we had a great time and if we could swing it I'd do it this year too.)