I am opposed to Princess’s tipping policy.

[terrierjohn]

 

I realise this will enrage lots of CC board members but please hear me out, and then hopefully you may also agree that Princess have developed a very useful profit centre.

 

On our cruise last year our Asst. waiter told us his pay, which was $50 per 10 day cruise, plus $400 from the tip pot, waiters received $50 and $700. From these figures and pro rating for a steward on the basis of 35% of the daily $10 tip, I calculate that stewards will receive $50 plus $600. Our cruise was on the Coral and so all calculations are based on its data. I accept that my guesstimates will be wrong but, if anyone has better quality data, perhaps they could share it with us.

 

For total numbers I have assumed each steward looks after 10 cabins which give a total of 100 stewards.

 

Each dining station appeared to handle 14 passengers, which doubling for 2 sittings or 2 seatings in pc gives approx. 70 stations each with 1 waiter and 1 assistant.

 

To cover wine waiters and drinks waiters who don’t also work in the restaurants I have assumed a further 100.

 

Based on the above costs I calculate that the annual wages for each would be:-

 

Waiter - $25500, steward - $22000 and assistant waiter $14500, not over generous but bearing in mind that they have all food & lodgings paid for and presumably don’t pay tax either in the US or their own country these wages seem much better, and of course these figures do not take account of any additional cash tips that the staff receive.

 

The total cost to princess for the tip component of these wages works out at approx. $7.5m pa.

 

Most postings I have seen suggest that the tips charged by Princess don’t come near covering the wages however, assuming full cruises and everyone paying the full $10/day, this gives an annual figure of $7m. Assuming a drinks bill of only $15/day per person, the 15% tip element of this would produce another $1.5m/annum. This gives Princess a useful $1m profit per year on the Coral alone.

 

Now do you still think that the Princess tipping policy is fair on you?

 

 

[spongerob]

Tips are shared amongst more than stewards and waiters. There is laundry staff, galley staff, etc. I seriously doubt that Princess is skimming from the tip pool; instead, there are more people involved than your calculations have assumed.

 

In the old days of hand tips, stewards would in turn tip the laundry staff for towels, sheets, etc. Nothing has changed, really.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

how do you know the asst waiter was telling you the truth? If some stranger asks you how much you make do you tell them?

 

I have always heard that it's $50 per month not by 10 day cruise but hey I know as much as you.

 

How would you rectify this wrong if you were in charge of running Princess?

 

Bill

[tstranz]

I agree. Tipping amount should be left up to the customers. That is why the as soon as I get a chance, I take the auto tipping off my account.

[cherylandtk]

Also, I have no idea how many folks choose to reduce their autotips, but I would venture that more do that than increase the autotip (Most of the really happy cruisers give additional tips in cash directly to the deserving party). That said, I agree that I don't think Princess keeps any of the tips, either. I would think the OP has just made some erroneous assumptions about how the tips are allocated.

[swooldri]

How is this just a Princess issue? This $9-$10 auto tipping is just about industry wide, not just Princess. Steve

[cherylandtk]

That is why the as soon as I get a chance, I take the auto tipping off my account.

 

When a pax removes the autotip, the servers for that person are required to turn in ALL tips to the mutual pot. This tends to hurt the very person you may be intending to help, because any "extra" you have given them will have to be included. If you leave on the autotip, then your servers will get to keep any extra tip. I am not a fan of the autotip either, but I just wanted you to understand the ramifications of removing it.

[cruiserforlife]

I also don't agree with the auto-tipping policy set forth by Princess.I always pre-tip my room steward the moment I meet them which in my mind always assures great service.Not that I wouldn't receive great service anyway,it's just something I always like to do.

 

I used to remove my auto-tip and tipped the traditional way using the tip envelopes but on my last 3 cruises,I just let Princess debit my folio account.

I am generally the kind of person who prefers to tip according to service received so the auto-tip policy goes against my better judgement.The service has been so great that I didn't feel the need to change this policy.

[psupa]

I agree. Tipping amount should be left up to the customers. That is why the as soon as I get a chance, I take the auto tipping off my account.

 

And how many others do the same thing. I wonder how many don't tip at all. Did you ever notice the dining rooms on the last night of the cruise. Many people absent. It's tip night.

[BJS]

I agree. Tipping amount should be left up to the customers. That is why the as soon as I get a chance, I take the auto tipping off my account.

I assume then you don't do any tipping if you don't want it to go into the pool. :( If you do tip after removing the auto tip the money you give goes into the pool anyway. :D

[SaylorGirl]

Terrierjohn - I don't think Princess is keeping what you calculate "extra tip money" besides you missed several categories in your assumptions. You didn't mention the Head Waiter who is also tipped plus there are numerous staff in the windjammer and other dining rooms that do not have a regular table station, also sometimes the kitchen staff, laundry staff, etc. some of these are allocated tips from the tip pool.

[BJS]

I am opposed to Princess’s tipping policy.

It is most fortunate for you that you don't have to cruise on Princess and can choose another cruise line. :rolleyes:

[coiran]

We `asked a room steward and a waiter on the Star recently and they liked the autotip better - everybody polices each other and it makes for better pax/staff relations - this cmae from their mouths - not mine - and, if Princess is skimming off the top then all the cruise lines are - I don't think so!

 

Ron

[Nliedel]

Can someone explain to me why they think that people are not taxed in their own countries? If I am a US citizen and I work in Sweden for a year I still need to pay taxes. I know that the citizens of many other countries do the same. Just because I am living abroad does not mean I do not owe taxes.

 

From the IRS website: "As a U.S. citizen or resident alien, your worldwide income generally is subject to U.S. income tax regardless of where you are living."

 

I knowa cruise drirector from RCCL (this was the 80's) who was from Norway and she paid taxes, a lot of them.

[cnmiranda]

I don't mind the tipping policy at all and find the auto tipping convenient. I also would not oppose the tipping to be added in the base price so we don't have to consider it:)

[Pam in CA]

Four years ago, we were on the Royal Princess on an Eastern Med cruise. It was the first cruise for the Royal after their world cruise and among the stories we heard were the number of passengers who, after more than a month on the ship, left NO tip for anyone. This was pre-auto-tipping. Which means that for an entire month, or more, the waiters, asst. waiters, etc. received no tip. Those that I talked to were in tears that someone would do that. I ran into a couple of them on later cruises and they much preferred the auto-tipping. Compared to what they can earn at home, their income from working on a cruise ship is significantly more.

 

For years, Princess and other cruise lines have a "recommended" amount for tipping. The auto-tip is the same as the recommended amount. As the others have said, if you remove the auto-tipping, any tips you leave go right into the pool so you haven't accomplished anything.

 

I much prefer the auto-tipping and having it on the onboard account. It means I don't have to bring as much cash and if I receive extra special service, then I tip extra.

[ahracer]

As others have already mentioned your calculations are flawed because you haven't included everybody that is drawing from the pool.

 

Scott

[nho9504]

Can someone explain to me why they think that people are not taxed in their own countries? If I am a US citizen and I work in Sweden for a year I still need to pay taxes. I know that the citizens of many other countries do the same. Just because I am living abroad does not mean I do not owe taxes.

 

From the IRS website: "As a U.S. citizen or resident alien, your worldwide income generally is subject to U.S. income tax regardless of where you are living."

 

I knowa cruise drirector from RCCL (this was the 80's) who was from Norway and she paid taxes, a lot of them.

 

I dont remember the exact figure for recent years - but it was 75K or 80K allowances a few years ago - that is, on top of all the deductions like us who live in the country, those U.S. Citizens and Permanent Aliens who derive most of their income aboard and live aboard 90% of the time, enjoy another big chunk of deduction - so that means the remaining portion that is taxable is much much smaller.

 

It also depends on county - Scandinavian countries have very high tax rates (referred to your CD from Norway). Asian countries usually dont tax their people's earnings when such are made outside the countries. FYI, Canada does not either, unless you own property inside Canada. Otherwise, 100% of what you make outside Canada and you live outside Canada, is exempt from Canadian tax.

[Globaliser]

Can someone explain to me why they think that people are not taxed in their own countries? If I am a US citizen and I work in Sweden for a year I still need to pay taxes. I know that the citizens of many other countries do the same. Just because I am living abroad does not mean I do not owe taxes.

 

From the IRS website: "As a U.S. citizen or resident alien, your worldwide income generally is subject to U.S. income tax regardless of where you are living."

The US is unusual in generally requiring its citizens to pay tax on their worldwide income wherever they may be living. Many people who have a choice regard this as a significant factor in deciding whether to take on US citizenship or not, especially if they have a choice about either keeping or acquiring a comparable citizenship from another country.

 

The US is also unusual in taxing its citizens who work on ships. This is actually a relatively new introduction. AFAIK, most other countries do not tax non-resident citizens who are working on ships.

 

Obviously, every country will be different, but as I understand it most countries tax their residents rather than their citizens.

[cruzbabe]

I actually like the auto tipping. I do Personal Choice dining and generally do not end up at the same table or the same dining room, so this way my concious is clear.

 

There are a whole lot of other people other than the cabin stewardess and the dining room waiters that are involved and share the pot (the tips). All those who get you drinks or clean tabl at Horizon Court, the guys who bake and serve Pizza/Burgers, etc... not to forgot the laundary staff, etc.

[AnnMorin]

I have a question is the ten dollars per person for each the wait staff and the stateroom staff (hense 20.00 per person per day ) or just 10.00 per person per day? If it is only the ten dollars, the tips are less than Disney's for sure!

[geoherb]

The autotip is $10 per passenger per day. That covers the wait staff and the cabin stewards. Bartenders get a 15% tip added automatically for each drink you charge.

[bjboothman]

I love autotipping. We often eat "personal choice" and don't find a favorite waiter that we feel the need to tip more, but we always tip our favorite bartender, the one who spots us the moment we sit down at Crooners and brings my DH a coffee without even having to be asked, while he takes my martini order.

 

Only on my first cruise did we have traditional tipping, and honestly, it felt silly giving little envelopes to the staff like they were gifts or something. Put the tips on the bill, they earn it.

[Colo Cruiser]

The US has no jurisdiction in taxing anyone on a foreign ship.

[nho9504]

The US has no jurisdiction in taxing anyone on a foreign ship.

 

US Citizens and permanent residents have obligation to pay U.S. Tax regardless where they live or work. U.S. Taxation system is worldwide.

 

However, there is a large exemption amount for those who work and live aboard, be it on foreign soil or on foreign ship.

 

That said, I dont think there are many crew members on any cruiselines are of U.S. nationals.