Costa Concordia SINKING

[B40 Tha Cruisa]

Just read an Associated Press article with new information (for me, at least. Apologies if this has already been posted):

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iJ5p1WSederzbOtj0ZFoq4RNfAFg?docId=6ff5170a60f9402e8dd99e870de3774e

 

Specific quotes:

 

"Costa owner Carnival Corp. estimated that preliminary losses from having the Concordia out of operation for at least through 2012 would be between $85 million and $95 million, though it said there would be other costs as well."

 

"Foschi said only once before had the company approved a navigational "fly by" of this sort — last year on the night of Aug. 9-10. In that case, the port and company had approved it."

 

"Just beyond where the gashed ship lies, the seabed drops off quickly by some 20-30 meters (65-100 feet); if the Concordia suddenly drops, any divers participating in the rescue operation could be doomed."

 

"Costa executive Costa said that the Rotterdam, Netherlands, based Smit, one of the world's biggest salvagers, will try to salvage the 290-meter (1,000 foot) cruise liner"

 

So it seems that Carnival is planning on extracting the ship soon, but the ship could be pushed into deeper waters if the weather worsens.

 

Thank you for posting this. Extracting and refurbishing will be a HUGE undertaking.

[dingoboy]

Im sorry but it doesnt work that way, onboard ship, the Captains word is law and unless there is mitgating circumstances you do not challenge him. It would go against anyone who raised their word against him.

 

 

RGDS

 

That might be how it works on a ships bridge. I can understand the history and importance of chain of command.

 

And indeed up until about 10/15 years ago that is how it was in aviation. The captain was beyond reproach. Beyond question.

 

That has now changed. And for one reason. Too many people died.

 

Too many accidents happened because competent co-pilots didn't speak up when they knew something was wrong.

 

The result is CRM crew resource management and it involves and requires all crew on the aircraft to act as one to protect flight safety.

 

I'm of the belief if CRM had been operating on that bridge this accident never could have happened. And I think we will see this will likely be one of the key recommendations that comes out of any enquiry.

 

Dont get me wrong CRM doesnt allow anyone can disobey an order. But it does ensure that they must speak up and raise questions about an order if if has the potential to effect flight safety. And indeed many airlines have adopted a coded phrase such as "you must listen to me" for flight critical situations.If that key phrase is used everyone is now trained to sit up, take on board what is being said.

 

As people have died In this tragic event, and on the basis of chain of events now emerging, I'd be surprised if CRM doesn't become standard practice.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

A person would have a better chance of survival if they were on a ship this size which sank in open waters than on a jumbo jet that fell out of the skies into the middle of the same open water. Virtually all open water plane crashes have resulted in 100% loss of life, while on a ship of this size, most, if not all, passengers have a decent chance of finding their way to a lifeboat and being rescued. Yet, people still fly overseas without worrying about it.

 

I guess I have somehow made peace with the idea of losing my life immediately in a water crash but not with the idea of spending any time at all swimming in the open sea. I realize that everyone will view this from their own perspective.

[EVALUATOR]

That might be how it works on a ships bridge. I can understand the history and importance of chain of command.

 

And indeed up until about 10/15 years ago that is how it was in aviation. The captain was beyond reproach. Beyond question.

 

That has now changed. And for one reason. Too many people died.

 

Too many accidents happened because competent co-pilots didn't speak up when they knew something was wrong.

 

The result is CRM crew resource management and it involves and requires all crew on the aircraft to act as one to protect flight safety.

 

I'm of the belief if CRM had been operating on that bridge this accident never could have happened. And I think we will see this will likely be one of the key recommendations that comes out of any enquiry.

 

Dont get me wrong CRM doesnt allow anyone can disobey an order. But it does ensure that they must speak up and raise questions about an order if if has the potential to effect flight safety. And indeed many airlines have adopted a coded phrase such as "you must listen to me" for flight critical situations.If that key phrase is used everyone is now trained to sit up, take on board what is being said.

 

As people have died In this tragic event, and on the basis of chain of events now emerging, I'd be surprised if CRM doesn't become standard practice.

 

Two of the most basic things taught to those receiving flying lessons.

 

1. If you are the Pilot, listen to the co-pilot.

 

and maybe more important...

 

2. If you are the co-pilot, make sure the pilot listens to you.

[ObscureAllure]

 

Terrible, terrible especially for the way passegers had to get off the ship:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ6slFRm5Ps

 

omg! That video makes me nauseous, that's so terrifying and unimaginable! It almost looks like you can see some people still in the cabins (black spots, anyway) I hope they got out ok or it was something else. So sad!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peterhof]

But not only that. There must have been alarms a plenty going off on the bridge. As with an aircraft there would be numerous alarms going off well before any collision. Some I'm sure, like on a flight deck can be silenced, at least for a short time, but as danager increases so to do the frequency and severity of the alarms.

 

I think the black box will show that apart from the totally insane decisions to steer so close to the shore, once things started to go wrong and people on the bridge became aware of impending impact all hell broke lose. Meaning many loud alarms prior to impact, the impact itself and then an avalanche of even more alarms with water flooding compartments, electrical power being lost and dozens of calls to the bridge from crew from all over the ship.

 

I think you are correct here and the fact that the stablisor is still intact on the port side with the gash starting some way behind it and on the same level, suggests that the ship sharply veared to starboard to try to miss something. Thus hitting the boulder with a sideways scrape after the stablisor had cleared. For the captain to say that the ship hit an uncharted rock during a normal forward drive is preposterous as in that case the stablisor would have been snapped off first.

 

This particular ship has two azimuthing pods instead of the old fashioned propellors. This quite new concept allows sudden navigational turns by turning both pods in the same direction at full power or shifting one pod into reverse mode (port in this case) and the other at full power. This then is similar to spinning on a sixpence/dime/cent and when used correctly - (always a manual procedure) can get a vessel out of danger when the old system could not have done. However, applied incorrectly could lead to disaster! There are many other benefits to the azimuthing pod system and most, if not all, ships built these days have them.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

That might be how it works on a ships bridge. I can understand the history and importance of chain of command.

 

And indeed up until about 10/15 years ago that is how it was in aviation. The captain was beyond reproach. Beyond question.

 

That has now changed. And for one reason. Too many people died.

 

Too many accidents happened because competent co-pilots didn't speak up when they knew something was wrong.

 

The result is CRM crew resource management and it involves and requires all crew on the aircraft to act as one to protect flight safety.

 

I'm of the belief if CRM had been operating on that bridge this accident never could have happened. And I think we will see this will likely be one of the key recommendations that comes out of any enquiry.

 

Dont get me wrong CRM doesnt allow anyone can disobey an order. But it does ensure that they must speak up and raise questions about an order if if has the potential to effect flight safety. And indeed many airlines have adopted a coded phrase such as "you must listen to me" for flight critical situations.If that key phrase is used everyone is now trained to sit up, take on board what is being said.

 

As people have died In this tragic event, and on the basis of chain of events now emerging, I'd be surprised if CRM doesn't become standard practice.

In aeronautical circles this might well be the case as judgement calls need to be made in seconds however in Marine cicles time is not as short. RCL Ships in general terms have two captains, I met both on the Independence of the seas and thus is also a safeguard should one need to be releived.

 

RGDS

[Northern Bear]

How long before the movie comes out...

[SuiteTraveler]

A newsreport states, that besides the "we have a small electrical problem which will be fixed shortly" announcement there was also a "Tango India" repeated several times. Does anybody know what it means ?

 

Tin

 

I believe Tango India means Fire at Sea which would fit with an electrical problem.

[ObscureAllure]

We were on board and we survived, thank God! It was horrible but today finally Costa is helping us with travel plans and we are being looked after it seems. So thankful. Something we will never forget.

 

So glad to see this - I hope you get home quickly and safely! I can't imagine the ordeal you went through, but we are all here for a shoulder to lean on it you need it!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Evil Jeremy]

Unfortunatly, there is no doubt that the Concordia is now sinking, abit slowly. According to an article in the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087249/Costa-Concordia-cruise-ship-accident-Hope-fades-16-missing.html), the ship sank 9cm (very little, but still important) today, and says this:

 

"The Costa Concordia pictured today, as fears grow a storm could dislodge it from its resting place and sent it plummeting 100 metres down to the bottom of the sea"

 

Also from the article, a picture of the partially flooded atrium. Horrifying:

[fortinweb]

I guess I have somehow made peace with the idea of losing my life immediately in a water crash but not with the idea of spending any time at all swimming in the open sea. I realize that everyone will view this from their own perspective.

 

Not immediate. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be on a plane that takes several minutes to drop from 30,000 feet before hitting the water, all the while waiting through those excruciating minutes for the impact that you know will kill you.

[jaja]

Dear nurse,

 

The problem is that muster drill controllers are often part of the entertainments team who double up to do this. They have received no formal training at all and learn on the job. This is one area that the SOLAS committee must address. Another is that although lifeboats over the years have ben updated and are wonderful, the launching of them by derreks is over 100 years old. It took the sinking of the Titanic to even get enough lifeboats/rafts installed on a ship to get everybody off in an emergency.

 

I have no idea what the answer is to that problem, but it must be revisited and quickly. Otherwise the cruise industry will go into decline. Of late, they are the only sector of the travel industry that has been on the increase.

 

 

Thanks for this post..!! I was trying to remember our past muster drills (NCL) and thought I remembered that it was the entertainment "crew" who were conducting it...and thought it odd !!!! and wondered what training they had!

[alwayshappytocruise]

A person would have a better chance of survival if they were on a ship this size which sank in open waters than on a jumbo jet that fell out of the skies into the middle of the same open water. Virtually all open water plane crashes have resulted in 100% loss of life, while on a ship of this size, most, if not all, passengers have a decent chance of finding their way to a lifeboat and being rescued. Yet, people still fly overseas without worrying about it.

 

 

Now, come on...you know it's called a "water landing"!!!!!!:o:p:o:p

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

It might be a good idea for posters to review the manner in which previous posts are being edited when quoting. Again today, there seem to be some deleted portions of the quote tags...which ends up attributing quotes to posters who didn't make them. :)

[kruzerci]

Unfortunatly, there is no doubt that the Concordia is now sinking, abit slowly. According to an article in the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087249/Costa-Concordia-cruise-ship-accident-Hope-fades-16-missing.html), the ship sank 9cm (very little, but still important) today, and says this:

 

"The Costa Concordia pictured today, as fears grow a storm could dislodge it from its resting place and sent it plummeting 100 metres down to the bottom of the sea"

 

Also from the article, a picture of the partially flooded atrium. Horrifying:

 

That photo looks like something out of a movie. I'm speechless :eek:. I feel for those who had to experience something like that.

[Enigm@]

Sorry if this has already been mentionned, but I've just spotted this... leaking liquid....fuel?

 

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16150043

[green cruiser]

Passengers are very dependent on the people operating a plane, bus or ship.

Passengers have to believe that they are being told the truth by the officlas in charge in order ot submit to their authority. We have the right to be trusted with the facts.

Passengers will ignore official instructions if they do not trust that the officers and crew are only interested in the safety of the pasengers in their care.

When we read that passengers had to fashion their own rescue or had to struggle to make sure that children made it to the lifeboats, we wonder if we will need to act on own if we suspect a disaster is starting on a ship in the future.

Costa has demaged the credibility of every cruise line and made a ship's response to the next "minor power incident" that much more difficult.

[reallyitsmema]

omg! That video makes me nauseous, that's so terrifying and unimaginable! It almost looks like you can see some people still in the cabins (black spots, anyway) I hope they got out ok or it was something else. So sad!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I missed that video when it was posted earlier! There is also a longer version, really makes me shudder to think what these people went through.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwmz9LN8wcE&feature=related

 

Edit to add: It also shows how high the ship was in the water initially and how it has really receded. The view of the bow really shows the difference dramatically.

[Boy Blue]

It seems that the boat is now leaking liquid into the sea according to Sky News

[alwayshappytocruise]

I really wish he would quote his sources. I think his information is coming from this article. I hadn't seen these pictures yet though, unbelievable!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087249/Costa-Concordia-cruise-ship-accident-Hope-fades-16-missing.html

 

Those photographs are really chilling, really helps to bring this tragedy to light for some of us.

 

Lynda

[mcrcruiser]

We were on another cruise line with regards to the safety drill . The drill was held in a inside large room . However, there were people standing in front of siting people .I brought this to the attention of the hotel director & imo was very unsafe.

 

Seems to me that all cruise lines must update their safety procedures & perhaps it may become manditroy that a film following the drill be presented twice in the main showrooms, about what if it happens & what must be done.:eek:

[EVALUATOR]

I missed that video when it was posted earlier! There is also a longer version, really makes me shudder to think what these people went through.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwmz9LN8wcE&feature=related

 

Edit to add: It also shows how high the ship was in the water initially and how it has really receded. The view of the bow really shows the difference dramatically.

 

I wonder what the time of the video is in relation to the location of the captain.

 

It was reported he took a life boat to shore after all the people were rescued. There were no boats being launched there.:mad::mad:

[Thoie]

Passengers are very dependent on the people operating a plane, bus or ship.

Passengers have to believe that they are being told the truth by the officlas in charge in order ot submit to their authority. We have the right to be trusted with the facts.

Passengers will ignore official instructions if they do not trust that the officers and crew are only interested in the safety of the pasengers in their care.

When we read that passengers had to fashion their own rescue or had to struggle to make sure that children made it to the lifeboats, we wonder if we will need to act on own if we suspect a disaster is starting on a ship in the future.

Costa has demaged the credibility of every cruise line and made a ship's response to the next "minor power incident" that much more difficult.

 

I think that no matter how well the crew of a ship are trained to handle emergencies, passengers will mess it up.

 

It's a bit easier on an aircraft - there's less space for people to mill about, and the emergency exits aren't far, and even with that there can be crushes and panic as people try to exit.

 

Now try evacuating a small floating town, with passageways and exits everywhere. No matter what you tell some people, they'll try to go the "wrong way" to find family/friends. People can be pushy enough when queuing for dinner, they're unlikely to be less so when queuing for a life boat.

[Northern Bear]

Sorry if this has already been mentionned, but I've just spotted this... leaking liquid....fuel?

 

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16150043

 

 

Good link, Thanks!