An open letter - Why we've decided to stop cruising

[Moeve]

@jtmalt I don't doubt that it was based on what survivers had to say - what bothers me is that this was all done without the official hearings - since those have only just started. In all honesty nobody - not even so called experts can really make any sort of call without all of the evidence.

 

That is really only starting to surface now as the officail inquiry gets under way. By the Italien justice has invited everyone. Every passenger and every crew member to provide testemony.

 

Only once everything is on the table will the real picture come to light on who else either screwed up or who did everything right.

 

Due to the one sided story of this show it bothered me that people were getting afraid because of it. If it had been put together later it might have been more balanced and might not have gotten to some people who are now afraid although cruising can still rightfully be considered probably the safest form of transportation.

 

Then again I have said it before sensation & bad news sells better than balanced news. The same reason why a cruise ship with 100 Noro cases gets more air time than a hospital with the same number of cases will ever get.

[thinfool]

@jtmalt I don't doubt that it was based on what survivers had to say - what bothers me is that this was all done without the official hearings - since those have only just started. In all honesty nobody - not even so called experts can really make any sort of call without all of the evidence.

 

 

This is somewhat true, however some facts are beyond dispute.

 

The ship hit a rock.

The ship has a long (160') gash below the water line with a large rock protruding therefrom.

 

Therefore I conclude that:

The ship was too close to the island, ie, off course.

The ship is listing and partially submerged because of the large gash allowing the ship to fill with water and capsize. In a different location the ship would have sunk.

 

There is also little doubt that the order to abandon ship was substantially delayed. Otherwise the lifeboats would have been full and headed to safety as the ship drifted away from the island, before the wind blew it back to its final resting place.

 

Discovery presented wind and current information that is available in the public domain or from industry sources that bear substantial credence.

 

As for the testimony from pax, while alarming and also likely true from their perspective, it was added to fill the allotted time and add a human element to the incident.

 

Anecdotally I would add our experience in 08. The ship(not a Costa ship), having passed Messina headed north changed course sharply to pass close to the few islands near Stromboli. As we sailed thru them the bridge crew saluted one of the islands as small boats sped alongside, blowing their horns and waving. Apparently it was home to one of the crew members. Seemed harmless enough at the time, but I am glad we were in deep water.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

I didn't know anyone had been found IN an elevator. How would they have gotten in....the power was out 5 minutes after the impact.

[above sea level cruiser]

One of the few words you spelled correctly was "Period" I wonder why.

To quote "we are all adults" please clic on this link it shows the dead five yrs old girl at her last birthday party. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104938/Eight-bodies-Costa-Concordia-including-missing-year-old-girl-salvage-workers-reveal-intricate-hand-drawn-plans-recover-victims.html

 

Timeline from the House of Representative inquiry being heard today.

 

9.40pm struck rock

9.45pm electricity is lost.

 

Kool it Keel Haul. We all know you have spell check.

[Rotterdam]

I too have come to the conclusion that we most likely will not be cruising again. After 50+ cruises & crossings since 1975(some on Costa - pre Carnivore Corp). In the last calendar year we sailed on mSC 2x(carib) & HAL once(Bermuda).

 

The standards have become so unpleasant onthese floating cattle cars under normal circumstances that I fear what has been happening recently is more common than we all know.

 

On MSC - the ships were evry clean but the food & service certainly were more on the level of Holiday Inn..this past January on Poesia there was a large group onbiard that made the entire cruise most unpleasant..MSC knew what they were doing & certainly had no regard for passengers that were not part of the large group - to the point the staff was so stressed out they were down right rude.

 

On HAL Veendam in July - again mediocre service & food but with added insult of a ship that was less than clean

 

On all the cruise inthe past 3 years or so we found stiff not even to understand the most basic of English..I know they are international - but the lines are bound to US Coast Guard standards while in US waters.....

 

The realization that cruising was out of control as never before was back in the late 1990's. I was onbaord Celebrity Zenith - NYC to Bermuda - on the way to Bermuda we encountered a storm that was so bad we were 24+ hours late arriving to Bermuda. The ship was destroyed - the casino was setup as a hospital(after some of the slot machines had been cleared because they were ripped out of the floor...furniture pianos & peopel were tossed across the decks, people were in a panick & crying, putting in life vests. THE STAFF was told to come up from the lower decks with life jackets on...not one word to the passengers - this started during dinner & lasted through the nite - our cabins were destroyed...passengers were left to their own devices......one passenger on a ncl that was following our ship died after falling down the stairs....broken bones & plenty of bruises all around.

 

So costa is not theonly bad apple.....it is too bad I remember Costa from the 1970's - wonderful along w/ Sitmar...Royal Viking, the Swedish & Norwegian Lines

 

so since then the standards are so bad - but profits are zooming....we'll go &find a nice beach house somewhere and do land tours....

 

btw mickey arrinson was reported on the world cruise....he should of been w/ the alllegra passengers!!!!

[iancal]

I do not have the same degree of confidence that many people have. I do not believe that the cruise lines place safety first. I think that they put profit first. This was brought home to me when I saw a former Captain who was, prior to retirement, the VP at Carnival Corp responsible for safety. His comment in the interview was that safey is first...as long as it did not cost anything. The cruise lines will meet international standards. A very bar indeed and a standard that simply does not comprehend ships with 2000 plus cruisers.

 

I do not have a great deal of confidence in the crew. This is not a disparaging remark. Keep in mind that many of them work 16 hours a day, six or seven days a week for mininum wages. Would you place your safety in the hands of someone who had been working 80 hours in the past week and was dog tired. I doubt it.

 

I think that many cruisers confuse friendliness and good cabin or waitstaff service, and a personalbe Captain with greying hair as an indication of safety. Nothing could be further from the truth...just have a check on cruise ship disasters in the past.

[Keel Haul]

Keel Haul - I beg your pardon I see it didn't occur to you that english might not be my main language.

 

In referance to the young italien girl - she was NOT found in the elevator. She was found with her father in a stairwell - they had apparently fallen into once the ship had started listing severely. They were found there because the lady friend they were with was able to identify the area they had been seen in last. This was NOT the lift in my post. The people in the lift were identified as all being adults. Please read the official releases by the italien coast guard.

So what I am dyslexic! I use a spell checker.My reference to the DEAD Italian girl was nothing to do with life jackets but the fact that she was one of the victims.It would appear from your disgusting rants that you give the child a pass, but those that you claim(I repeat you do not know who or what cause them to be in the lift) were in the lift were victims of their own stupidity, who do not deserve the same respect as the other innocent victims.

[sweby]

The question you have to ask yourself if will you fly again? How many plane crashes have there been in the last 20-30 years? Will you travel in a car again? How many crashes were there today, how many lives lost on the road in the last 20-30 years. Would you travel by coach, how many passengers have been killed in coach accidents? The captain and senior members of the crew on the Concordia acted inappropriately, from the time they went by the Island, right up until the point they abandoned ship leaving passengers behind. What are the chances of this type of disaster happening again, almost zero. This may be a wake up call for some other Captains that forget their role is the safety of passengers and crew, and the safety of a very expensive ship. What are the chances of something happening like the loss of power on the Allegra, well that is more likely. However it was unfortunate that the ship was in such a remote location and the problem couldn't be rectified. It must have been aweful on board, but how often does it happen. I have been on a ship that has had a problem in port and sailing was delayed, and the same ship lost power at sea for an hour and all was fixed whie we were at sea.

If you have enjoyed cruising, you should remember what you have enjoyed about it and not be put off because of the actions of one captain

and his senior officers.

As far as safety is concerned, if I was on a ship that felt as if it hit something, I would get my lifejacket and wait near the lifeboats, or at least wait around on the deck, but I stil don't ever expect to be on a ship that goes down. Its much more likely I'll be hit by a car and die while crossing the road, on the day I win the jackpot on the lottery! Don't let one captain spoil what you have enjoyed.

sweby

[Forge]

:mad:

So what I am dyslexic! I use a spell checker.My reference to the DEAD Italian girl was nothing to do with life jackets but the fact that she was one of the victims.It would appear from your disgusting rants that you give the child a pass, but those that you claim(I repeat you do not know who or what cause them to be in the lift) were in the lift were victims of their own stupidity, who do not deserve the same respect as the other innocent victims.

 

Guys, guys, come on, stop this stupid bickering, It's getting out of hand!

 

WE WEREN'T THERE!

 

This is about peoples right to choose there own destiny not a place for arguing. Put this disaster to rest and think of the ones who did not come home.

[glrounds]

The question you have to ask yourself if will you fly again? How many plane crashes have there been in the last 20-30 years? Will you travel in a car again? How many crashes were there today, how many lives lost on the road in the last 20-30 years. Would you travel by coach, how many passengers have been killed in coach accidents? The captain and senior members of the crew on the Concordia acted inappropriately, from the time they went by the Island, right up until the point they abandoned ship leaving passengers behind. What are the chances of this type of disaster happening again, almost zero. This may be a wake up call for some other Captains that forget their role is the safety of passengers and crew, and the safety of a very expensive ship. What are the chances of something happening like the loss of power on the Allegra, well that is more likely. However it was unfortunate that the ship was in such a remote location and the problem couldn't be rectified. It must have been aweful on board, but how often does it happen. I have been on a ship that has had a problem in port and sailing was delayed, and the same ship lost power at sea for an hour and all was fixed whie we were at sea.

If you have enjoyed cruising, you should remember what you have enjoyed about it and not be put off because of the actions of one captain

and his senior officers.

As far as safety is concerned, if I was on a ship that felt as if it hit something, I would get my lifejacket and wait near the lifeboats, or at least wait around on the deck, but I stil don't ever expect to be on a ship that goes down. Its much more likely I'll be hit by a car and die while crossing the road, on the day I win the jackpot on the lottery! Don't let one captain spoil what you have enjoyed.

sweby

 

Excellent post and so damn true. :)

 

These events have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on whether or not I cruise in the future. A "loose-cannon" Captain chose to deviate from the "approved" safe course set down by his employer. His insubordination was the DIRECT cause of this tragedy. This single act of incompetence is all I need to know about any impaired future safety on the seas. An anomaly for sure.

 

The OP chooses to not cruise again and that's fine also. We all have to make our logical evaluations on a lot of things every day. This was his.

 

[jtmalt]

Interestingly, I received an email from Princess today, inviting me to participate in a survey. The survey title is "Please share your thoughts on your interest in cruising".

 

After a few demographic questions about age/number of past cruises, the main questions asked are:

 

What statement best describes your current feelings about taking an ocean cruise vacation?

 

• I love cruising and I plan to cruise as usual I'd cruise again if I can find a really great deal
  
• I'm indifferent
  
• It will take a lot to convince me to cruise again
  
• Never again
  

Are you considering purchasing and ocean cruise vacation that will sail within the next 2 years (2012 or 2013)?

 

• Yes, I am considering many different vacation options including cruising
  
• Yes, I am currently planning an ocean cruise vacation but I haven’t booked yet
  
• Yes, I have already booked an ocean cruise
  
• No, I was planning an ocean cruise vacation but I have recently decided against it
  
• No, but I am considering other types of vacations
  
• No, I am not seriously considering any vacation options at this time
  

(My answer apparently affected the next set of questions chosen)

 

 

What are the primary reasons you recently changed your mind and decided not to take an ocean cruise vacation within the next 2 years (2012 or 2013)? (Please select all that apply)

 

 

• I’m concerned about catching Norovirus. Please elaborate:
  
• I’m concerned about the safety of cruising. Please elaborate:
  
• I’m concerned about my personal financial situation. Please elaborate:
  
• The recent Costa Concordia event. Please elaborate:
  
• Other. Please elaborate:
  

Please tell us a little more in your own words why you have decided against or are not interested in an ocean cruise as a vacation option in the next 2 years (2012 or 2013)?

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

While I seriously doubt this study is a result of my letter to Princess and Carnival Corp. that was reproduced at the start of this thread, I think it clearly signifies that the cruise lines are very concerned about the public perception of cruising right now.

[jtmalt]

Updating the letter that started this thread:

 

I received a response by mail yesterday from Princess Cruises. It's nothing other than I would have expected, given the ongoing investigation and the nature of my original letter.

------------------------------------

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Our hearts go out to everyone who has been affected by this tragic event. We are still awaiting further information from the investigation to understand the cause of the accident and the crew's response. As we find out more, we will apply any lessons learned and update our procedures accordingly. In the meantime, our focus will continue to be on providing our passengers and crew with a safe and secure environment. We appreciate your feedback, and hope that you might one day reconsider Princess Cruises

 

Sincerely,

 

Princess Cruises

Customer Relations Specialist

customerrelations@princesscruises.com

[Crusing Nut]

I plan on cruising again as soon as I can. I am not going to let the actions of a few individuals affect my love of cruising. I am very sorry that people died as a result of those actions.

 

When we finally schedule our next cruise, we will drive down to the airport, take a flight to the city of the destination and get on a ship.

 

If others decide not to go, oh well. Enjoy whatever form of vacation that you choose.

 

Hopefully lessons will be learned from this tragic accident. People need to pay attention to safety instructions whether they are in a plane or on a ship. I don't know how many times at a muster drill, people come with drink in hand, talking all during the instructions or video. Those people also affect your safety, be mad at them also.

[runnerandme]

I am not going to stop cruising. I hate to fly, but will still do so. I will still drive a car.

 

I have sent a letter to Carnival Corp. I expressed my feelings about this accident, and more importantly how I felt about how they have dealt with the aftermath.

 

I will not book any cruiseline that is under the Carnival Corp. umbrella until I see how fairly these victims ( crew included) are treated. I know that they will not be impacted by the loss of my 20K a year vacation budget, but it is a choice I feel I need to make.

 

I anticipate posts that expand on other cruiselines' history of "wrongs". I will just say that has nothing to do with THIS situation.

 

I am not saying I will NEVER cruise a Carnival Corp. product. I am saying it is up to this company to convince me to do so.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I am not going to stop cruising. I hate to fly, but will still do so. I will still drive a car.

 

I have sent a letter to Carnival Corp. I expressed my feelings about this accident, and more importantly how I felt about how they have dealt with the aftermath.

 

I will not book any cruiseline that is under the Carnival Corp. umbrella until I see how fairly these victims ( crew included) are treated. I know that they will not be impacted by the loss of my 20K a year vacation budget, but it is a choice I feel I need to make.

 

I anticipate posts that expand on other cruiselines' history of "wrongs". I will just say that has nothing to do with THIS situation.

 

I am not saying I will NEVER cruise a Carnival Corp. product. I am saying it is up to this company to convince me to do so.

It is not only how they treat the passengers, in my view, the main point is safety aspect. They have to clear the decks of anyone involved in sanctioning those 'sail-bys' anyone who failed their duties at Headquarters, and those crew, (officers and crew) on board who failed to meet the basic requirements of safety towards the passengers.....

 

rgds

:)

[runnerandme]

davy..., I totally agree. I did expand on that in my letter. ( not as well as you stated it however..) I sent a hard copy, not an email.

[CeleBrat]

 

I do not have a great deal of confidence in the crew. This is not a disparaging remark. Keep in mind that many of them work 16 hours a day, six or seven days a week for mininum wages. Would you place your safety in the hands of someone who had been working 80 hours in the past week and was dog tired. I doubt it.

 

 

Clearly, you've never been to a hospital then, where the doctors and residents work those same hours, and truly have your life in their hands...

 

CeleBrat

[lillian marie]

I understand the writer's concerns. We also cruise 3-4 times a yr. and have 2 up coming cruises already booked. Yet, after those cruises are completed we plan to take more land based vacations in the future and an occasional cruise. I too have a concern about safety. I will not cruise when I reach retirement age or now if I had any type of physical restriction. Let's hope there is never another accident like this again.

[Ridget]

The Concordia disaster will change the scope of safety (SOLAS) of modern day cruising. It already has. I feel safer now than ever. And by the way, I have never sailed on a single ship that postponed the safety drill until after sailing. It was always done prior to shoving off. I'll stick to US carriers (though the parent is a US company, the subordinate company is obviously Not).

[DocF]

When we went on our first cruise a few years ago, I told DW that we must only rely on ourselves in case of disaster at sea. I locate the inflatable rafts and plot a way to them. Experience has shown they are much more reliable than are the lifeboats. I've been around the water and professional mariners for most of my life. It is my duty to care for us and allow the ship's company to assist us.

 

Now we have determined that we need to take a hiatus from cruising for a while. It is because we have a case of "been there, seen that" disease. Safety at sea is not a concern in our decision.

 

Doc

[bubbasqueen]

I didn't read all the comments following your initial statement. I don't understand why you included Princess when that cruise line had nothing to do with this. I've been following the documentaries about the Costa disaster and the Titanic Centennial shows too. I do think I'll be more aware of safety when I cruise.

I think your statement is equivalent to saying that your won't be flying anymore because a plane went down.

[jtmalt]

I didn't read all the comments following your initial statement. I don't understand why you included Princess when that cruise line had nothing to do with this. I've been following the documentaries about the Costa disaster and the Titanic Centennial shows too. I do think I'll be more aware of safety when I cruise.

I think your statement is equivalent to saying that your won't be flying anymore because a plane went down.

 

Your question has been asked, and answered, several times over the course of this thread. If you can't be bothered to read the entire thread before commenting, you can simply click on my name and choose "Find all posts by..." to see the specific replies I've posted.

[Keel Haul]

JT if you need another reason to stop cruising you could use one of our fears.Its the thought of being on board a ship and meeting some of the people who post here.

[Foncai]

JT if you need another reason to stop cruising you could use one of our fears.Its the thought of being on board a ship and meeting some of the people who post here.

 

Maybe you wont meet them. They have decided to stop cruising....

[OleSalt]

We have decided to stop shopping at Publix. Two accidents involving serious injuries have happened in the last two weeks, one aircraft crashed thru the roof and another car drove straight thru the vegetables. This is unacceptable conduct. Because shopping is so dangerous, we are converting our balcony into a vegetable garden and henhouse.