RCI come back.....at least for the summer!

[wl2cruise]

I thought I was giving West Coasters the benefit of the doubt as to one of the reasons that Mariner did so poorly when it sailed for the West Coast and subsequently. If my history or timing was a bit off, the fact remains that RCI's decision to move the Mariner westward was less than a stellar success. If stating that fact indicates a bias against the West Coast, so be it. I thought it was necessary to inject a bit of reality into the discussion. My point is that when, and if, the situation on the West Coast improves (and that includes not only the economy, but the limitations on potential itineraries, public concern about health and crime problems in Mexico etc.) then RCI may revisit their decision to withdraw from LA. Until all those things happen and there are not more profitable regions where they can base their ships, nothing is likely to change, despite lobbying by cheerleaders for the West Coast.

I have similar thoughts about claims, without any real evidence to back them up, that the Sunshine project ships will be based in locations other than in Florida.

 

I would say the economy was the main reason why Mariner did not sail full around the horn. then about 3 months after she arrived in LA the swine flu scare hit putting a halt to all cruises to Mexico's. I would say those are the major contributing factors. All you have to look at is what Princess is doing on the West Coast with their itineraries.

 

Now the reality is Mexico has seen a record increase in visitors in the first have of 2012 and over half of them where from the U.S. and Mexico is the 1 international destination for Americans. I would say you missed the boat on that one.

 

What's all the babbling about the sunshine ships? Im not a cheerleader, at this point in time I am currently a shareholder and a loyal customer of RCI. But things can change.

[wl2cruise]

The last few days we have been getting internet pop-up ads about a 1 week itinerary by the Disney Wonder in September leaving LA and going to SF (staying overnight) and then down to SD and Ensenada and back to LA. As New Yawkers we would love that trip but I guess West Coasters have seen all those cities many times.

 

This itinerary will be sailed 4 weeks and all 4 weeks will be Pixar themed. Normally Pixar is not stressed on Disney sailings.

 

So why couldn't Royal do that itinerary, we would book it in two seconds.

 

Pant, pant.!!!!!

 

They actually did that itinerary one time in 2003 because of 2 Hurricanes that hit the MR at the same time. We left LA and went up to San Francisco for 2 days down to Catalina for one day and to Ensenada for another day. It actually was my first cruise, been hooked ever sense.:D

[skiman1]

Maybe when the enlarged canal opens we'll see more options from RCCL.

 

Yes, Princess has some big ships out here on the west coast, but they also have a large number of those ships in Alaska during the summer.

[tahqa]

Now the reality is Mexico has seen a record increase in visitors in the first have of 2012 and over half of them where from the U.S. and Mexico is the 1 international destination for Americans. I would say you missed the boat on that one.

 

Really? Maybe you should cite your sources...

 

 

http://blueribbonnews.com/2012/01/top-international-vacation-destinations-for-2012/

• Caribbeancruising, also number one in 2011.
  
• Cancun, Mexico
  
• Playadel Carmen, Mexico
  
• European cruising
  
• Rome, Italy
  
• London, England, which celebrates Queen Elizabeth II’s Diamond Jubilee and hosts the 2012 Olympic Games this summer.
  
• Punta Cana, Dominican Republic
  
• Paris, France
  
• Montego Bay, Jamaica
  
• Negril, Jamaica, which rose from number 15 last year
  

http://www.vayama.com/pressroom/2012/03/22/vayama-highlights-top-u-s-international-travel-destinations-for-2012/

 

Mexico isn't even on that list...

 

 

http://mediaroom.expedia.com/travel-trends-and-destinations/expedia-2012-travel-trends-report-1609

5 Hot International Destinations for Americans in 2012

• Based on search results, in 2012, American travelers are showing strong interest in Cancun, San Juan, London, San Jose del Cabo andPunta Cana.
  

Cabo comes in after Cancun, San Juan (both Caribbean!) and London.

 

I'd say maybe you missed the boat on that one... :rolleyes:

 

 

The TRUTH is that Royal Caribbean is a business and if they thought they could make money in So Cal they would be there.

 

 

People are fond of saying that Carnival makes it on the west coast, and Princess makes it on the west coast, and Disney is on the west coast... well, maybe the west coast can't support four cruise lines. And the Disney Wonder is leaving the So Cal market to go to Miami. Disney loves money... so maybe the money just isn't there in So Cal right now. :eek:

[wl2cruise]

Really? Maybe you should cite your sources...

 

 

http://blueribbonnews.com/2012/01/top-international-vacation-destinations-for-2012/

• Caribbeancruising, also number one in 2011.
  
• Cancun, Mexico
  
• Playadel Carmen, Mexico
  
• European cruising
  
• Rome, Italy
  
• London, England, which celebrates Queen Elizabeth II’s Diamond Jubilee and hosts the 2012 Olympic Games this summer.
  
• Punta Cana, Dominican Republic
  
• Paris, France
  
• Montego Bay, Jamaica
  
• Negril, Jamaica, which rose from number 15 last year
  

http://www.vayama.com/pressroom/2012/03/22/vayama-highlights-top-u-s-international-travel-destinations-for-2012/

 

Mexico isn't even on that list...

 

 

http://mediaroom.expedia.com/travel-trends-and-destinations/expedia-2012-travel-trends-report-1609

5 Hot International Destinations for Americans in 2012

• Based on search results, in 2012, American travelers are showing strong interest in Cancun, San Juan, London, San Jose del Cabo andPunta Cana.
  

Cabo comes in after Cancun, San Juan (both Caribbean!) and London.

 

I'd say maybe you missed the boat on that one... :rolleyes:

 

 

The TRUTH is that Royal Caribbean is a business and if they thought they could make money in So Cal they would be there.

 

 

People are fond of saying that Carnival makes it on the west coast, and Princess makes it on the west coast, and Disney is on the west coast... well, maybe the west coast can't support four cruise lines. And the Disney Wonder is leaving the So Cal market to go to Miami. Disney loves money... so maybe the money just isn't there in So Cal right now. :eek:

 

Travel weekly is the source and just a bitt of info for you you should read the full article when you provide a link. Because it say Cancun is #1 for Americans in international destination which is Mexico so thanks from proving my point. Da!

[tahqa]

Travel weekly is the source and just a bitt of knowledge for you you should read the full article when you provide a link. Because it say Cancun is #1 for Americans in international destination so thanks from proving my point. Da!

*Sigh*

 

 

WHERE is Cancun? Mayan Riviera. That doesn't exactly bolster the cause for So Cal. :rolleyes:

[tahqa]

Travel weekly is the source and just a bitt of info for you you should read the full article when you provide a link. Because it say Cancun is #1 for Americans in international destination which is Mexico so thanks from proving my point. Da!

 

In the interest of fairness here is the Travel Weekly citation: :)

http://www.travelweekly.com/Mexico-Travel/Numbers-up-across-the-board-for-Mexico-tourism/

 

 

According to the latest figures from the U.S. Department of Commerce, Mexico remains the top international destination for U.S. travelers: During the first quarter of 2012, Mexico held 19% of the U.S. outbound tourism market share.

The Riviera Maya, Cancun and Puerto Vallarta reported occupancy increases of 3.1%, 8.7% and 10.6%, respectively, from January through May.

 

 

Now, outside of Puerto Vallarta most of the interest in Mexico is in the Mayan Riviera, which you'd be hard pressed to service from So Cal. And Puerto Vallarta's numbers came mostly from Spring Breakers.

 

 

http://visitpuertovallarta.com/news/2012/04/tianguis-and-spring-break-give-puerto-vallarta-record-month/

[wl2cruise]

In the interest of fairness here is the Travel Weekly citation: :)

http://www.travelweekly.com/Mexico-Travel/Numbers-up-across-the-board-for-Mexico-tourism/

 

 

According to the latest figures from the U.S. Department of Commerce, Mexico remains the top international destination for U.S. travelers: During the first quarter of 2012, Mexico held 19% of the U.S. outbound tourism market share.

The Riviera Maya, Cancun and Puerto Vallarta reported occupancy increases of 3.1%, 8.7% and 10.6%, respectively, from January through May.

 

 

Now, outside of Puerto Vallarta most of the interest in Mexico is in the Mayan Riviera, which you'd be hard pressed to service from So Cal. And Puerto Vallarta's numbers came mostly from Spring Breakers.

 

 

http://visitpuertovallarta.com/news/2012/04/tianguis-and-spring-break-give-puerto-vallarta-record-month/

 

Cancun is 1st (Caribbean side) Tip of Baja (Pacific side) is 4th on the list and PV (pacific side) due to spring breakers are on the top of international destinations Americans are vacationing so in all fairness using common sense i would say Negc missed the BOAT claimming of disease and violence is preventing people vacationing in Mexico.

[negc]

Cancun is 1st (Caribbean side) Tip of Baja (Pacific side) is 4th on the list and PV (pacific side) due to spring breakers are on the top of international destinations Americans are vacationing so in all fairness using common sense i would say Negc missed the BOAT claimming of disease and violence is preventing people vacationing in Mexico.

 

And I would say that during the time period when several lines were reducing their visits to Mexico, primarily the Mexican Riviera, not Cancun and the Mayan Riviera, those concerns were cited as motivating factors, and until those perceptions change, many potential visitors are still hesitant to travel to some areas of Mexico. Percentages are interesting things and when visits drop significantly during a given period, any subsequent increases can be substantial when measured percentage wise but minimal when measured in actual numbers. I'm not rooting for the Mexican Riviera to perform poorly. I hope that interest in visiting those ports increases dramatically, but until you have more evidence that it has, don't expect cruiselines to significantly increase the presence of their ships in the region.

I would also point out that the fact that a particular ship or line is doing well on a specific route,doesn't necessarily mean that putting more ships on that route would succeed. It is possible that the line is benefitting from the lack of competition and that adding another ship would simply mean that where one ship was sailing full, two ships might end up sailing well below total capacity.

That's just one thing that cruiseline executives have to consider when they decide change their deployment.

[Arizona Cruz Chic]

The last few days we have been getting internet pop-up ads about a 1 week itinerary by the Disney Wonder in September leaving LA and going to SF (staying overnight) and then down to SD and Ensenada and back to LA. As New Yawkers we would love that trip but I guess West Coasters have seen all those cities many times.

 

This itinerary will be sailed 4 weeks and all 4 weeks will be Pixar themed. Normally Pixar is not stressed on Disney sailings.

 

So why couldn't Royal do that itinerary, we would book it in two seconds.

 

Pant, pant.!!!!!

 

 

I wish RC would do this one too.....it would take me one second to book that!

 

In your post you said west coasters have seen all those cities. Maybe so, but.....

 

You have to drive, pay for gas, pay for a hotel, parking fees at hotel, cost of food and entertainment.

 

I'd rather cruise the coast!!!

 

***

[PhoenixDawgCruising]

Bill lives in New England and loves cold and frosty TAs.:rolleyes:

 

New England...brrrrrrrrr.:D

[wl2cruise]

And I would say that during the time period when several lines were reducing their visits to Mexico, primarily the Mexican Riviera, not Cancun and the Mayan Riviera, those concerns were cited as motivating factors, and until those perceptions change, many potential visitors are still hesitant to travel to some areas of Mexico. Percentages are interesting things and when visits drop significantly during a given period, any subsequent increases can be substantial when measured percentage wise but minimal when measured in actual numbers. I'm not rooting for the Mexican Riviera to perform poorly. I hope that interest in visiting those ports increases dramatically, but until you have more evidence that it has, don't expect cruiselines to significantly increase the presence of their ships in the region.

I would also point out that the fact that a particular ship or line is doing well on a specific route,doesn't necessarily mean that putting more ships on that route would succeed. It is possible that the line is benefitting from the lack of competition and that adding another ship would simply mean that where one ship was sailing full, two ships might end up sailing well below total capacity.

That's just one thing that cruiseline executives have to consider when they decide change their deployment.

 

My opinion is if and when RC decides to return to LA it should be a mixture of itineraries not just the MR. Now as for leaving loyal customers to the competitors is probably not a good business decision I would think. Maybe Royal should follow your advice on multiply ship deployments to the same region because they lost there but in Europe last quarter and are now struggling in Australia.

[eel]

I am hoping that when Sunshine comes on line they could trickle down a Vision or Radiance class ship to California, even if it is for part of the year. Perhaps they could have a ship do Alaska in the summer and sail out of LA the rest of the year. That is a way for RCI to give California another shot without heavy investment.

 

Alternating itineraries make a lot of sense. Maybe a series of 5 day Mexican Riviera, 6 day Pacific Coastal and a 3 day LA - Ensenada - Catalina Island cruise would be reasonable. Then you could do a B2B or a B2B2B if you wanted a longer cruise. Maybe the pacific coast only in fall and spring. Winter stick to Mexican Riviera.

[jbobst]

To the person who said the Mariner was doing so badly and what would change if they brought a ship back...The biggest difference (in my opinion) would be that they have to stop doing the typical 7 day Mexico cruise over and over again. Get creative like Princess is doing!

 

Princess is charging pretty high prices and is bringing another ship to California and NCL is coming back for some Mexico cruises. They can some how make it in California, and seem to be charging fairly high prices. Princess has varied up the itineraries and seem to be doing very well with it.

 

When the Mariner came, RCL was dealing with a brand new Carnival ship as competition (although the Mariner is WAY better), they had the swine flu problem/perception of Mexico, and the economy was tanking very badly. If they come back, I am pretty sure things would be different, and here are the reasons why (assuming they don't try to do the same old Cabo/PV/Mazatlan options over and over again):

 

-Economy might be getting better

 

-Do varied itineraries - stop doing the typical 7 day Mexican riviera only. Keep a few of those around, but take us up the coast...offer an overnight option (like Princess does in San Francisco), go to Canada, throw in a few one ways for the B2B people and throw in a few of the Swine Flu itineraries, and defiantly go heavy on Pacific Coastals. Hawaii seems pretty saturated now, but maybe throw one or two Hawaii cruises in a year.

 

-Flying is getting more expensive and more of a hassle

 

-Many people are tired of Carnival

 

-Throw in a few 3/4 day offerings throughout the year for the first timers who want to try a shorter cruise and not have to endure a Carnival booze cruise.

 

- And finally, there are basically NO summer time cruise options out of California. There are a ton of ships in Alaska during the summer, but after this year, not even Carnival will have a ship in California during the summer months. But, DO NOT go to Mexico except maybe once or twice. Give those of us in the Southwest who are dealing with awful temperatures in the summer months a nice Pacific Coastal/Canada cruise. We want to cruise in the summer, but we don't want to fly and we don't want the heat and humidity in Mexico.

 

Because NCL is returning and because Princess seems to have more offering now, there will definitely be competition. But if they gave us more options, I think they would do really well.

[SherriZ366]

I thought I was giving West Coasters the benefit of the doubt as to one of the reasons that Mariner did so poorly when it sailed for the West Coast and subsequently. If my history or timing was a bit off, the fact remains that RCI's decision to move the Mariner westward was less than a stellar success. If stating that fact indicates a bias against the West Coast, so be it. I thought it was necessary to inject a bit of reality into the discussion. My point is that when, and if, the situation on the West Coast improves (and that includes not only the economy, but the limitations on potential itineraries, public concern about health and crime problems in Mexico etc.) then RCI may revisit their decision to withdraw from LA. Until all those things happen and there are not more profitable regions where they can base their ships, nothing is likely to change, despite lobbying by cheerleaders for the West Coast.

I have similar thoughts about claims, without any real evidence to back them up, that the Sunshine project ships will be based in locations other than in Florida.

Very well put.

[wl2cruise]

to the person who said the mariner was doing so badly and what would change if they brought a ship back...the biggest difference (in my opinion) would be that they have to stop doing the typical 7 day mexico cruise over and over again. Get creative like princess is doing!

 

Princess is charging pretty high prices and is bringing another ship to california and ncl is coming back for some mexico cruises. They can some how make it in california, and seem to be charging fairly high prices. Princess has varied up the itineraries and seem to be doing very well with it.

 

When the mariner came, rcl was dealing with a brand new carnival ship as competition (although the mariner is way better), they had the swine flu problem/perception of mexico, and the economy was tanking very badly. If they come back, i am pretty sure things would be different, and here are the reasons why (assuming they don't try to do the same old cabo/pv/mazatlan options over and over again):

 

-economy might be getting better

 

-do varied itineraries - stop doing the typical 7 day mexican riviera only. Keep a few of those around, but take us up the coast...offer an overnight option (like princess does in san francisco), go to canada, throw in a few one ways for the b2b people and throw in a few of the swine flu itineraries, and defiantly go heavy on pacific coastals. Hawaii seems pretty saturated now, but maybe throw one or two hawaii cruises in a year.

 

-flying is getting more expensive and more of a hassle

 

-many people are tired of carnival

 

-throw in a few 3/4 day offerings throughout the year for the first timers who want to try a shorter cruise and not have to endure a carnival booze cruise.

 

- and finally, there are basically no summer time cruise options out of california. There are a ton of ships in alaska during the summer, but after this year, not even carnival will have a ship in california during the summer months. But, do not go to mexico except maybe once or twice. Give those of us in the southwest who are dealing with awful temperatures in the summer months a nice pacific coastal/canada cruise. We want to cruise in the summer, but we don't want to fly and we don't want the heat and humidity in mexico.

 

Because ncl is returning and because princess seems to have more offering now, there will definitely be competition. But if they gave us more options, i think they would do really well.

 

like.

[Ocean Boy]

To the person who said the Mariner was doing so badly and what would change if they brought a ship back...The biggest difference (in my opinion) would be that they have to stop doing the typical 7 day Mexico cruise over and over again. Get creative like Princess is doing!

 

 

So you are saying that the failure was RCI's fault because of the itineraries that they set up.

[tahqa]

- And finally, there are basically NO summer time cruise options out of California. There are a ton of ships in Alaska during the summer, but after this year, not even Carnival will have a ship in California during the summer months. But, DO NOT go to Mexico except maybe once or twice. Give those of us in the Southwest who are dealing with awful temperatures in the summer months a nice Pacific Coastal/Canada cruise. We want to cruise in the summer, but we don't want to fly and we don't want the heat and humidity in Mexico.

 

Umm... gee... I wonder why THAT is? :rolleyes:

[jbobst]

So you are saying that the failure was RCI's fault because of the itineraries that they set up.

 

Did you read the rest of my post? I am saying that could be part of the problem, but certainly not the whole problem. I also pointed out the bad economy, a brand new Carnival ship as competition, and the swine flu and the perception and problems that whole thing caused.

 

In the couple years that the Mariner was based out of California there was a bunch of ships doing the same basic Cabo, PV, and Mazatlan. Between Princess, Holland, Carnival, NCL, and the Mariner, there were a lot of options. Don't you think if RCL would have offered some varied itineraries they could have stood out from the rest somewhat? Princess is apparently doing very well on their pacific coastals. Many people actually liked the swine flu re-routes. I think even a couple Hawaii runs on a ship like the Mariner would be fantastic.

[jbobst]

Umm... gee... I wonder why THAT is? :rolleyes:

 

If you are implying that Alaska is where all the summer revenue is, I think you are wrong about that. At least a little. While Alaska is very popular, it seems completely saturated right now. Princess alone will have 7 ships there next year (and maybe they even have that many there now)! I kept my eye on last minute Alaska prices this summer and there were/are some great deals to be had, ($299 for a 7 day cruise???) and that seems to me like they were trying to fill up their ships. I could be wrong, but it seems very over saturated. I know there is revenue to be had in Alaska for sure, but couldn't some cruise line put just one ship in Southern California for the summer season...and NOT do the standard Mexican Riviera cruise week after week? In Arizona, we typically vacation to Southern California every summer for cooler temperatures and the ocean/beach. If there was a cruise option out of SoCal, we would go on it every summer. Carnival has charged much higher summer time fares in the past as they were the only one doing the summer Mexican Riviera. Why not add a cooler climate cruise around California? We would pay the higher cost to avoid airfare for sure.

[Ocean Boy]

Did you read the rest of my post? I am saying that could be part of the problem, but certainly not the whole problem. I also pointed out the bad economy, a brand new Carnival ship as competition, and the swine flu and the perception and problems that whole thing caused.

 

In the couple years that the Mariner was based out of California there was a bunch of ships doing the same basic Cabo, PV, and Mazatlan. Between Princess, Holland, Carnival, NCL, and the Mariner, there were a lot of options. Don't you think if RCL would have offered some varied itineraries they could have stood out from the rest somewhat? Princess is apparently doing very well on their pacific coastals. Many people actually liked the swine flu re-routes. I think even a couple Hawaii runs on a ship like the Mariner would be fantastic.

 

1. Yes I did.

 

2. I have no idea how RCI decides to put its itineraries together. But I do suspect that it does have a thought process and does not involve throwing darts at a board.

[Sunny AZ Girl]

One of my favorite cruises was a 4 night on the Radiance from San Diego when the Radiance was doing alternating 4 & 5 night runs to Cabo. I would do that over and over if I could. Also, the Pacific Coastal 7 nights that Princess does are wonderful. If one ship would do those, alternating the itineraries I would book for sure. We were booked on the Princess Coastal for this year, but had to cancel due to health and job loss situations. We are doing the Allure next year but hope to stay on the west coast in 2014. I would book RCI if given the opportunity, especially since we will be Diamonds by then. But if there is no other option we will go with Princess.

[jbobst]

1. Yes I did.

 

2. I have no idea how RCI decides to put its itineraries together. But I do suspect that it does have a thought process and does not involve throwing darts at a board.

 

Darts at a board? Now I really know that you aren't reading (or at least comprehending) what I wrote.

 

You said "So you are saying that the failure was RCI's fault because of the itineraries that they set up. " My first post never said that and I again explained what my "theories" were in my follow up post as to why the Mariner didn't do so well.

 

Since Princess is apparently doing well on mixing up their itineraries on the west coast and evening bringing in another ship to home port there, they must be very busy throwing darts (sarcasm). I can only speak for me, but I know as a cruise vacation consumer, I personally would like to see more alternative itineraries offered out of Southern California throughout the year. I have read many other comments on these boards as well about other people wanting to see the same thing. We are real people with real preferences...not throwing random darts.

 

I don't see the need to come to the defense of RCL, if that is what your posts are intending to do, as I am not trying to attack them, just simply offering my opinion and share my preferences and view point on the topic at hand. I love RCL, and would love them to come back on the West Coast. I am not attacking them.

 

By the way, the Mariner cruises out of Galveston sure don't have a very big price tag. The prices look awfully similar to the prices they were charging out of L.A. I know there are other factors at play like fuel costs, ports charges, passenger spending, etc. It just seems like they aren't making a killing by moving to Galveston...at least on the initial cost per passenger.

[Ocean Boy]

Darts at a board? Now I really know that you aren't reading (or at least comprehending) what I wrote.

 

You said "So you are saying that the failure was RCI's fault because of the itineraries that they set up. " My first post never said that and I again explained what my "theories" were in my follow up post as to why the Mariner didn't do so well.

 

Since Princess is apparently doing well on mixing up their itineraries on the west coast and evening bringing in another ship to home port there, they must be very busy throwing darts (sarcasm). I can only speak for me, but I know as a cruise vacation consumer, I personally would like to see more alternative itineraries offered out of Southern California throughout the year. I have read many other comments on these boards as well about other people wanting to see the same thing. We are real people with real preferences...not throwing random darts.

 

I don't see the need to come to the defense of RCL, if that is what your posts are intending to do, as I am not trying to attack them, just simply offering my opinion and share my preferences and view point on the topic at hand. I love RCL, and would love them to come back on the West Coast. I am not attacking them.

 

By the way, the Mariner cruises out of Galveston sure don't have a very big price tag. The prices look awfully similar to the prices they were charging out of L.A. I know there are other factors at play like fuel costs, ports charges, passenger spending, etc. It just seems like they aren't making a killing by moving to Galveston...at least on the initial cost per passenger.

 

I was joking.

[serenadepan]

The Mariner of the Seas was really cheap in 2009. I went solo on an inside cabin and it cost $500. I did that in September and December.

 

I went just to go to the beach so i didn't have to go on any excursions.

 

In Mazatlan i just took a $10 taxi ride to the beach.

In Cabo San Lucas i took a $10 water taxi to lovers beach.

In Puerto Vallarta the beach was right on the dock, conveniant

 

Going to those ports no excursions were required.