Birth Certificate vs Passport

[Zubsin]

Originally Posted by cb at sea

I cruise (on CLOSED LOOP CRUISES) with my BC and DL...never a problem...never a hassle.

 

We don't "miss" the ships departure....and even should something untoward happen, the country you're in will NOT keep you...guaranteed. It might be a hassle, but you will get home.

 

I refuse to give the government any money I do NOT have to give them, just to go on vacation.

 

 

 

Why??? I feel the same way as cb at sea. To me, getting a passport for a closed loop cruise is like purchasing expensive insurance for an event that has less than a 1% chance of happening. I don't like to waste my money on odds like that if I don't have to. The government says we don't have to have a passport on a closed loop cruise. Now if I were to be planning a vacation to a foreign country by means other than a closed loop cruise, where it was required, then I would hand over my cash for a passport and consider it part of the cost of taking that vacation. If it isn't required then I get to decide, just like with travel insurance, if the risk is great enough to justify the cost to me....IMHO it's not so I won't spend my money on it.

 

 

$135 for a five year passport saves the hassle and opens up other travel opportunities. But then I live on the Canadian border and passports are required. I buy insurance and I have a passport. I guess most US citizens agree with you as only 26% of us own a passport.

[Alliezona09]

I have a passport and DH does not~

[Warm Breezes]

$135 for a five year passport saves the hassle and opens up other travel opportunities. But then I live on the Canadian border and passports are required. I buy insurance and I have a passport. I guess most US citizens agree with you as only 26% of us own a passport.

 

I have never had any hassles in my 46 years because I do not have a passport and a passport only opens up travel opportunies if you need to leave for another country with little notice. Due to our jobs and kids we cannot travel last minute and it takes months of planning for us to take a vacation...plenty of time to get a passport if necessary. So far it has not been necessary since all the places we have wanted to vacation to did not require a passport. Everyones situation is different. We live in Michigan...but I have no need to go to Canada. We did Niagra Falls with the kids before passports were required. We did a cruise to Canada last year, passports were not required. I think most US citizens agree that if it is not required for what you are doing, then why spend your money on it? Most of us have never needed it for anything and really don't see the need.

[Hlitner]

I have never had any hassles in my 46 years because I do not have a passport and a passport only opens up travel opportunies if you need to leave for another country with little notice. Due to our jobs and kids we cannot travel last minute and it takes months of planning for us to take a vacation...plenty of time to get a passport if necessary. So far it has not been necessary since all the places we have wanted to vacation to did not require a passport. Everyones situation is different. We live in Michigan...but I have no need to go to Canada. We did Niagra Falls with the kids before passports were required. We did a cruise to Canada last year, passports were not required. I think most US citizens agree that if it is not required for what you are doing, then why spend your money on it? Most of us have never needed it for anything and really don't see the need.

 

I think what you say is certainly true for a majority of American citizens who do not travel, or intend to travel, outside the US. But this is Cruise Critic....which is a web site dedicated specifically to cruisers... And,,,,,just about everyone who takes a cruise does leave the US. As we, and others have posted, it becomes a very sad day when you see potential cruisers refused boarding at embarkation because somebody at the port decides that their documents do not pass muster. At that point there is no appeal (even if the port agent is wrong), nothing you can do at the time and you are just left standing at the port as your ship pulls away. The only document, that is completely above reproach and not subject to anyone's interpretation or mistake, is a valid Passport. The only document that can get you back into the US in case an emergency forces you to leave a cruise outside the US is a Passport! For those of you that prefer to take your chances we do hope that everything continues to work out well (it usually does). After all, life is a gamble. But for us, and a majority of travelers, this is a risk we do not need to take.

 

Hank

[Zubsin]

Well said Hank! Travel on!

 

And I checked my number according to a National Geographic post 35% of US citizens own a passport as of January of 2012. The number in 1991 was only 5.7%. Much of the explosion of passport holders is attributed to US law changing after September 11th and the US requiring it's citizens to have passports to travel to Canada and Mexico.

[njhorseman]

$135 for a five year passport saves the hassle and opens up other travel opportunities. But then I live on the Canadian border and passports are required. I buy insurance and I have a passport. I guess most US citizens agree with you as only 26% of us own a passport.

 

No, you don't need a passport if you're not flying...you can drive to Canada using an Enhanced Drivers License, and in fact Washington is one of the states (the others being VT, NY and MI) that offers the EDL.

[tulsacubfan]

I have a passport as I have needed it to travel to England, Ireland and Canada. Will be going to Alaska on a non closed loop next year so will have to have it then as well. Do I use it on closed loop cruises since I have it - yes - much easier than carrying a birth certificate and drivers' license (okay - I always have my drivers' license but you know what I mean). But, would I have gotten one just for the closed loop cruises - no.

[njhorseman]

I think what you say is certainly true for a majority of American citizens who do not travel, or intend to travel, outside the US. But this is Cruise Critic....which is a web site dedicated specifically to cruisers... And,,,,,just about everyone who takes a cruise does leave the US. As we, and others have posted, it becomes a very sad day when you see potential cruisers refused boarding at embarkation because somebody at the port decides that their documents do not pass muster. At that point there is no appeal (even if the port agent is wrong), nothing you can do at the time and you are just left standing at the port as your ship pulls away. The only document, that is completely above reproach and not subject to anyone's interpretation or mistake, is a valid Passport. The only document that can get you back into the US in case an emergency forces you to leave a cruise outside the US is a Passport! For those of you that prefer to take your chances we do hope that everything continues to work out well (it usually does). After all, life is a gamble. But for us, and a majority of travelers, this is a risk we do not need to take.

 

Hank

 

I'd love to see some statistics verifying how many cruisers actually get turned away at the port because they don't have the proper version of their birth certificate, and what that number is as a percentage of all persons attempting to cruise with a birth certificate. It seems to me that every one of the scare stories I've seen posted on Cruise Critic when investigated involves such a clear and obvious violation of the requirements that the cruiser had no one to blame other than themselves...not an arbitrary denial by some person at the port.

 

I wouldn't travel outside the US without my passport, but for some people who have no other use for it and who may have spent $300 or 400 or so for a weekend cruise to the Bahamas, the cost of a passport is a significant percentage of the cost of their vacation, and I can fully understand why they don't want to spend the additional money.

 

Frankly I find the posts waving the "you better get a passport" flag to be insulting the intelligence of the people who ask what the facts are about passport requirements. Give them the facts, even remind them of the risk of not having a passport if they have to fly home unexpectedly and then let them make their own decision as intelligent adults. Don't patronize them.

[Hlitner]

Regarding the statistics of how many get turned away we honestly do not have a clue. But, if you are the statistic then that would not seem to matter. Keep in mind that if you do get turned away you will lose your entire cruise fare and you must get back home at your own expense. And even trip insurance will not help in this situation. So as we said, for those who want to gamble we wish them luck and hope everything is fine. But being a person that travels about 6 months a year all over the world I can tell you that I spend a lot of "thinking time" trying to enhance our trips and minimize risk. When it comes to simple issues like travel documents....we cover all or our bases and concern ourselves about more pressing issues. Those of us who do a lot of international independent travel (few or no tours) often talk about having a "Plan B" for when things go wrong. There is no Plan B for not having a Passport when you need it.

 

Hank

[njhorseman]

Regarding the statistics of how many get turned away we honestly do not have a clue. But, if you are the statistic then that would not seem to matter. Keep in mind that if you do get turned away you will lose your entire cruise fare and you must get back home at your own expense. And even trip insurance will not help in this situation. So as we said, for those who want to gamble we wish them luck and hope everything is fine. But being a person that travels about 6 months a year all over the world I can tell you that I spend a lot of "thinking time" trying to enhance our trips and minimize risk. When it comes to simple issues like travel documents....we cover all or our bases and concern ourselves about more pressing issues. Those of us who do a lot of international independent travel (few or no tours) often talk about having a "Plan B" for when things go wrong. There is no Plan B for not having a Passport when you need it.

 

Hank

 

Glad to hear that you have no statistics...hopefully that will mean you'll cease making up unsupported scare stories.

 

Of course there's a "Plan B" if it turns out that you unexpectedly need a passport. It's the same "Plan B" you're going to use if you had a passport and it is lost, stolen or damaged. Do you think you're going to spend the rest of your life wandering the streets of some foreign country because you don't have a passport? "Plan B" is very simple, although somewhat costly. You go to nearest US consulate or embassy and apply for a passport.

 

By the way, if you think I'm some wet-behind-the-ears kid who hasn't traveled, you're sadly mistaken. Being an experienced traveler doesn't mean you have to talk down your nose at people whom you think aren't. It's quite possible to give advice to those who ask without the patronizing attitude.

 

If you're a world traveler, then your argument about covering all your bases with regard to travel documents isn't relevant. You have no choice but to have a passport and whatever visas are necessary. If you don't have them, you're not traveling. A US citizen on a closed loop cruise has a choice of documentation. If they don't have a passport they can still travel with other acceptable forms of documentation.

[Happy ks]

Who knows the statistics? I'm sure there are people every week denied boarding because they don't know the requirements. A co-worker of mine was furious when she found out the day before her cruise she needed her birth certificate and she had to scramble to her mothers house and tear it apart to find it. Her fault, she didn't read her contract and only knew from her TA at the last minute.

 

My husbands birth certificate, issued by the state in 1948, probably would raise a lot of questions if he tried to board a cruise ship with it today. It does have a raised seal, but it is a mimeographed copy of the original. My daughters first birth certificate would not be acceptable (we had to get a new one) even though it was issued by the state. The state stopped recognizing the "abstract of birth" as legal a couple years after they issued them. We wouldn't have known it unless we had not applied for her passport.

 

My point is, the passenger is responsible to have proper ID to be able to board a cruise ship, closed loop or not.

[sail7seas]

I'd love to see some statistics verifying how many cruisers actually get turned away at the port because they don't have the proper version of their birth certificate, and what that number is as a percentage of all persons attempting to cruise with a birth certificate. It seems to me that every one of the scare stories I've seen posted on Cruise Critic when investigated involves such a clear and obvious violation of the requirements that the cruiser had no one to blame other than themselves...not an arbitrary denial by some person at the port.

 

I wouldn't travel outside the US without my passport, but for some people who have no other use for it and who may have spent $300 or 400 or so for a weekend cruise to the Bahamas, the cost of a passport is a significant percentage of the cost of their vacation, and I can fully understand why they don't want to spend the additional money.

 

Frankly I find the posts waving the "you better get a passport" flag to be insulting the intelligence of the people who ask what the facts are about passport requirements. Give them the facts, even remind them of the risk of not having a passport if they have to fly home unexpectedly and then let them make their own decision as intelligent adults. Don't patronize them.

 

 

Almost every cruise out of FLL, someone gets left behind because they do not have the proper travel documents. Doesn't matter how much they cry, how much they plead........ if they do not have necessary travel documents, they do not board.

 

Yes, I know this to be true.

 

 

[MrSchwump]

OP,

I had a passport before I started cruising.

If you have time before your cruise, get a passport.

I know is it not cheap, but it is good for 10 years. It is a proof of citizenship even in the US.

It is alsogood to have a passport if you have a different last name on your birth certifcate and a different last name on your DL or other picture id.

 

It is a beautiful small booklet that says, I can go on vacation anywhere in the big wide world.

 

Enjoy your cruise with whatever documents you take.:)

 

Anywhere except for Cuba. Most everyone else in the world is allowed to travel there but we're not. I guess that makes us the land of the mostly free?

[Hlitner]

Anywhere except for Cuba. Most everyone else in the world is allowed to travel there but we're not. I guess that makes us the land of the mostly free?

 

Actually, traveling to Cuba on a US Passport is not a problem as long as you go there via Mexico (we have also heard of some doing it via Canada). People do it all the time although the US government is not happy about it. Cuba has no problem allowing those with US Passports to visit...it is our own government that has the restrictions. There are also regular flights between several Caribbean Islands (such as Jamaica and Curacao) to Havana but we are not sure if there are any restrictions for US Passport holders on those flights.

 

Regarding those who want to insist that life is good without a Passport, we understand that some cannot be convinced and such is life. Our advice (and warnings) are for those looking for good info...and not pushing their own agendas :)

 

Hank

[SadieN]

Friends just got the Passport Card because it is easier than taking the paper BC.

They only cruise once a year with our group and the cruise only goes to Ensenada, which is only a two-three hour drive from home.

[njhorseman]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] Almost every cruise out of FLL, someone gets left behind because they do not have the proper travel documents. Doesn't matter how much they cry, how much they plead........ if they do not have necessary travel documents, they do not board.

Yes, I know this to be true.


[/B][/QUOTE]

I seriously doubt that you have firsthand knowledge of this being true, but even if you did, cruisers being denied boarding because they didn't have proper documentation is not what I'm disputing. Of course you won't be allowed to cruise without proper documentation. What I'm disputing is the Cruise Critic urban myth that somehow passengers with proper documentation are being denied boarding because of the arbitrary actions of misinformed agents at the port who mistakenly think a valid birth certificate is not proper documentation. There is no evidence of that happening...not one iota. A small number of Cruise Critic posters show up on thread after thread perpetuating this myth and use it to scare inexperienced cruisers who have questions about needed documentation.

[Happy ks]

[quote name='njhorseman']I seriously doubt that you have firsthand knowledge of this being true, but even if you did, cruisers being denied boarding because they didn't have proper documentation is not what I'm disputing. Of course you won't be allowed to cruise without proper documentation. What I'm disputing is the Cruise Critic urban myth that somehow passengers with proper documentation are being denied boarding because of the arbitrary actions of misinformed agents at the port who mistakenly think a valid birth certificate is not proper documentation. There is no evidence of that happening...not one iota. A small number of Cruise Critic posters show up on thread after thread perpetuating this myth and use it to scare inexperienced cruisers who have questions about needed documentation.[/QUOTE]

Only about 1% of all cruisers are even aware of Cruise Critic, so I doubt any of this has much impact.

[njhorseman]

[quote name='Happy ks']Only about 1% of all cruisers are even aware of Cruise Critic, so I doubt any of this has much impact.[/QUOTE]

It has a direct impact on those who come to Cruise Critic and ask about documentation requirements. That's the audience...they ask and we answer. If you think that's unimportant because it only comprises 1% of cruisers why are you bothering to post here?

[Happy ks]

[quote name='njhorseman']It has a direct impact on those who come to Cruise Critic and ask about documentation requirements. That's the audience...they ask and we answer. If you think that's unimportant because it only comprises 1% of cruisers why are you bothering to post here?[/QUOTE]

I suppose I posted that because my britches aren't in so much of a twist over it.

I think it can be an important question and I also think some people will make the wise decision to get their passport and not have to worry. Just not a whole lot of them ;)

[Warm Breezes]

[quote name='Hlitner']Actually, traveling to Cuba on a US Passport is not a problem as long as you go there via Mexico (we have also heard of some doing it via Canada). People do it all the time although the US government is not happy about it. Cuba has no problem allowing those with US Passports to visit...it is our own government that has the restrictions. There are also regular flights between several Caribbean Islands (such as Jamaica and Curacao) to Havana but we are not sure if there are any restrictions for US Passport holders on those flights.

Regarding those who want to insist that life is good without a Passport, we understand that some cannot be convinced and such is life. Our advice (and warnings) are for those looking for good info...and not pushing their own agendas :)

Hank[/quote]

Hmmm....just who is pushing the agenda:rolleyes:. BTW my life has been good without a passport...who are you to try to convince me it hasn't been:confused:.

[oneluvablepest]

[quote name='Warm Breezes']I had a different last name on my BC and photo ID for all 9 of our cruises...no issues, they always checked the first name and birthdate. Your photo ID needs to match your boarding name.[/QUOTE]
Thank You Warm Breezes ! :)

We are taking my 89 yr old grandmother and her 86 yr old sister (who can run circles around most 20 yr olds !! hahha) and both have BC but last names differ due to marriage or divorce... and wondered what they would need along with BC and ID. Bahamas on the Ecstasy 11/24/12 COUNTING THE HOURS !!!

[sail7seas]

[B]If they have copies of their marriage licenses/divorce decrees, it wouldn't hurt to bring them.

[/B]

[sail7seas]

[quote name='njhorseman']I seriously doubt that you have firsthand knowledge of this being true, but even if you did, cruisers being denied boarding because they didn't have proper documentation is not what I'm disputing. Of course you won't be allowed to cruise without proper documentation. What I'm disputing is the Cruise Critic urban myth that somehow passengers with proper documentation are being denied boarding because of the arbitrary actions of misinformed agents at the port who mistakenly think a valid birth certificate is not proper documentation. There is no evidence of that happening...not one iota. A small number of Cruise Critic posters show up on thread after thread perpetuating this myth and use it to scare inexperienced cruisers who have questions about needed documentation.[/quote]


[B] Of course, you have no idea what information is shared with whom, by whom. You cannot know who is related to 'someone', has worked where, does what for a living blah blah blah........


I have not heard of 'arbitrary' denial of boarding. I have heard far more about persons who work at embarkation ports going to all extremes possible to assit guests who present themselves without the proper documents.

I've heard of them suggesting family member scan a document and e-mail a copy of a divorce decree, a marriage license fax copies and all sorts of other methods to help the guest to board. Of course, some documents require originals and there is nothing to be done about that. Either you have it or you don't.

[/B]

[Katana_Geldar]

The fact is, owning a passport gives you protection that other forms of ID don't have. It's prof of citizenship. We have to have passports to cruise and I wouldn't have it any other way. There's no gamble I won't be stuck in a foreign country.

[njhorseman]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] Of course,[COLOR="Red"] you have no idea what information is shared with whom[/COLOR], by whom. You cannot know who is related to 'someone', has worked where, does what for a living blah blah blah........


I have [COLOR="Red"]not heard of [/COLOR]'arbitrary' denial of boarding. I have heard far more about persons who work at embarkation ports going to all extremes possible to assit guests who present themselves without the proper documents.

[COLOR="Red"]I've heard of[/COLOR] them suggesting family member scan a document and e-mail a copy of a divorce decree, a marriage license fax copies and all sorts of other methods to help the guest to board. Of course, some documents require originals and there is nothing to be done about that. Either you have it or you don't.

[/B][/QUOTE]


All your "heard ofs", "not heard ofs", and "who shares information with whom" prove my supposition that you have no firsthand knowledge. Firsthand knowledge involves something you've personally seen and experienced, not something someone else told you.

Those "heard ofs" can be found in a single TV special on the Oasis of the Seas that has been broadcast on cable networks dozens of times, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that's where you're getting the information from.

By the way, thanks for confirming that you haven't heard of people being arbitrarily denied boarding, and for mentioning that agents at the port help out people by suggesting some documents can be faxed to the port. It supports my point.