Norovirus or just lots of sick people??

[Mura]

Not taken as an affront at all. Not to worry. I was just scratching my head a little ...

 

Mura

[digtexas]

Sorry, I did not mean to stir up any controversy. Of course we all agree that we should take whatever measures that we can to avoid catching an awful virus. My only point is that I think it is naive to walk around thinking, "I always wash and sanitize my hands so I am immune".

[vaitape]

Sorry, I did not mean to stir up any controversy. Of course we all agree that we should take whatever measures that we can to avoid catching an awful virus. My only point is that I think it is naive to walk around thinking, "I always wash and sanitize my hands so I am immune".

 

No controversy...just 2 friends clarifying themselves. That's the problem with this method of communication....can't hear inflections like you can with the spoken word.

[fmrnyer]

No. If there is a continuing problem ship will be sanitized completely before allowing new pax on board. How many sick? If code red indeed is in effect then 3% of the ship, pax and crew would be appox 75 to 100 people. Small percentage considering.

 

I was on the Nautica in June and came down with something very unpleasant of the gastrointestinal sort, and being a good citizen tried to report my illness to the medical staff. Left a voice message and was contacted by phone several hours later. The staff member was only interested in scheduling an appointment for me while I was only interested in reporting my symptoms - you know, in case I wasn't the only sufferer. Still don't know what I had, but the symptoms abated after about 36 hours, although I felt tired and unable to enjoy extended touring in the Baltic for several days afterward. My roommate in our inside cabin never got sick which led me to think I picked up the bug in Riga at a tiny restaurant that she did not patronize. Anyway, my point is that the Nautica staff on that sailing had zero concern about the possibility of group infection.

[fdnycruiser]

We just got off of Riviera this morning. Yes, there were some people that were sick,and extra precautions taken. Fortunately we didn't get sick and never missed a meal. No real disruptions to the on board routine other than what was mentioned. Maybe for me after 28 years with FDNY,and now teaching in elementary school for 9 years,I've been exposed to most of the viruses out there.

[LewiLewi]

We just got off the Riviera this morning, and 3 of the 4 of us got sick with the norovirus/gastrointestinal virus at different times during this cruise. It seriously put a damper on our vacation. We met many other people who were also Ill at different times during this cruise. It is an unfortunate aspect of modern day cruising and seems to be happening more often these days.

The Riviera is a beautiful ship. Her crew was wonderful and couldn't do enough for you. We will be sailing on the Marina next year and are hopeful that we will not have the same problem again.

[Dr. Cocktail]

I have read this thread with interest - unfortunately, Norovirus is indiscriminate of the ships that it boards - luxury or budget!

 

As previous posters have pointed out, the behaviour of many passengers is truly mind-boggling. Unfortunately, it is up to each individual to protect themselves from a potential vacation ruining experience.

 

While hand sanitizers are better than nothing, the jury is out (well, it's pretty clear) that they don't kill Norovirus. Still, they protect against many other viruses and may help prevent transmission of cold and flu. Use them when offered - yes, they dry your hands but it's better than lying in bed with a cough and fever!

 

As people have stated, wash your hands as often as possible and avoid the public restrooms - these have been shown to be one of the main transmission points on shipboard outbreaks. Always keep your hands away from your face unless you have just washed your hands. And most importantly, don't eat with your fingers for at least the first few days! Using a knife and fork effectively breaks the chain of transmission. So, sorry - the surf and turf sandwich and your "nibblies" will have to wait!

 

Viruses will always be present - just be prudent!

[Mura]

Smarter Travel had a rather disconcerting article a week or so ago ... directed towards air travel but I'm sure it is just as pertinent to ships.

 

Bathrooms on aircraft are NOT cleaned all that often, and many people do not wash their hands thoroughly after using the facility. Tests have found unpleasant items all over the airplane. Including the FOOD you are served.

 

My mother always took a paper towel with her when she left a public bathroom (which she used to open the door) and I thought she was being excessive, but as I think about it ... and having seen so many women in restrooms *not* wash their hands after using the facilities ... well ... I guess Mom knew best.

 

Another article just as recently talked about similar problems in our own kitchens.

 

So yes, using the sanitizers is good but that won't do the trick if people using a bathroom before you didn't properly wash their hands.

 

It really doesn't hurt to be a bit manic about cleanliness ...

 

Mura

 

P.S. This article from Smarter Travel talked about what you can find in your hotel rooms ... scary enough.

 

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/today-in-travel/81-of-hotel-room-surfaces-have-fecal-bacteria.html?id=11730282

 

I'd give you a ******* except that CC seems to make it impossible to post those ...

 

Here is a more general article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/smartertravel/10-germiest-places-yo_b_2118506.html

 

Just google "Smarter Travel re fecal" and lots comes up ... No pleasant reading, that's for sure!

 

Mura

[CruisinAddict]

We just got off the Riviera this morning, and 3 of the 4 of us got sick with the norovirus/gastrointestinal virus at different times during this cruise. It seriously put a damper on our vacation. We met many other people who were also Ill at different times during this cruise. It is an unfortunate aspect of modern day cruising and seems to be happening more often these days.

The Riviera is a beautiful ship. Her crew was wonderful and couldn't do enough for you. We will be sailing on the Marina next year and are hopeful that we will not have the same problem again.

 

We also disembarked this morning, and we were also affected by the "gastroenteritis" on the ship. At least that was the diagnosis made....

 

My husband became violently ill on Sunday night, and after multiple trips to the bathroom, in a two-hour period, he was so dehydrated that he passed out and collapsed on the stateroom floor. He was transported to the medical facility by wheelchair. They treated him with an IV (with a $100 charge for insertion!), medication for the nausea, vomiting and diarrhea, and Cipro antibiotic. He was quarantined for 24 hours, but he would not have been able to leave the stateroom anyway because of the severity of the illness. During the last two days of the sailing, he was able to leave the stateroom, but he couldn't eat anything unless he was close to a bathroom. And he certainly didn't enjoy the food.

 

There were many more people affected by this than has been discussed or implied here, especially during the last week. It seemed that everyone had either a spouse or a friend who was or had been sick. One of the speakers had to cancel a lecture, and even the computer manager was sick with the virus. On Monday, only 4 out of 9 on our Scattegories team showed up - the others were all sick. I received a call from another guest using the same travel agent as us, suggesting we get together with them and a third couple. We never did meet them because, for three days in a row, one person from each couple was sick and quarantined.

 

Besides those that went to the medical facility, and are included in any statistics someone might be keeping, there were many more who did not go to the doctor. They did not want to be quarantined, or incur the large cost of treatment. Our bill was only $677, which was on the low end of the charges I heard about - others ranged from the mid-$500 range to over $1100!

 

We have sailed many times, and my husband has never been sick on a cruise. He washes his hands frequently, and always uses the hand sanitizer when it is present, both entering and exiting a room. Who knows why one person gets sick, and another doesn't - whether it is called gastroenteritis, Norovirus, or food poisoning.

Edited November 30, 2012 by CruisinAddict

[White Cat]

We just got off the Riviera today. It was not held by the CDC until 9 a.m. for disembarcation. We left as planned in one of the last groups at 8:40 a.m. Jan is right, at least for my husband who became very ill with intestinal illness and it did not test out as Norovirus which is what I had suspected. However, there was an outbreak of something which struck my husband very hard and myself less so. His medical treatment was excellent although it does bother one a bit that you pay a medical bill for something is that caused by a ship outbreak. Our regret is not having gotten to all the lovely restaurants we had so looked forward too. We have cruised for more than 25 years and this was a first, but it does unfortunately happen, particularly in a closed environment like a cruise ship. Hopefully steps that were underway will control anything for the next group of passengers. As for the Rivieria, it was everything one could hope for in a ship and maintains O's outstanding level of service and style.

[digtexas]

I am a little amazed that O would charge guests medical costs for treating a disease outbreak on their ships. It is one thing if a passenger has an individual medical problem, but in my opinion, quite another when a virus is ravaging the ship. One could conceivably blame the cruise line and sue.

If I remember correctly, when I contracted the Norovirus, Crystal compensated me and my wife for the day lost in quarantine, rather than charge me for a nurse's visit. I find this disturbing.

Edited November 30, 2012 by digtexas

[eddmel]

It is hard to precisely attribute blame for the spread of a virus on a ship. Given that, how can a decision be reached as to whether medical care is "free".

[titong]

I am surprised that anyone would pay money for a cruise and/or overseas travel and not have some kind of health insurance that would cover those medical expenses.

[digtexas]

It is hard to precisely attribute blame for the spread of a virus on a ship. Given that, how can a decision be reached as to whether medical care is "free".

 

Yes, it may be hard to precisely attribute blame but the company has a duty to provide a safe and inhabitable environment to its invitees and one could easily argue that it has failed to do so. Plus there are the PR and good will issues, from a business standpoint.

[burm]

I later read that it was E-coli

 

Hope everyone is taking precautions

 

Lyn

 

 

Canadians, take your Dukoral (prescription only). It is 90% covered by our health insurance but is worth every penny even if you have to pay. We never leave home without it. While it does not cover noro virus, it does prevent e-coli and most other causes of traveller's diarrhea.

[fdnycruiser]

Most travel insurance packages will reimburse you fully for your medical expenses. Another good reason to never leave home without it.

[LHT28]

Canadians, take your Dukoral (prescription only). It is 90% covered by our health insurance but is worth every penny even if you have to pay. We never leave home without it. While it does not cover noro virus, it does prevent e-coli and most other causes of traveller's diarrhea.

Be sure to read the side effects & if you can take the drug ...not everyone can if you have other existing health issues

[White Cat]

I am surprised that anyone would pay money for a cruise and/or overseas travel and not have some kind of health insurance that would cover those medical expenses.

 

Yes, we have travel insurance and practiced hygiene on board. We probably will be financially whole in the end. It is more a matter of the "good will" mentioned by another poster. That being said, we still have 2 more cruises booked on the Marina to hopefully partake more fully of the O experience.

[burm]

Be sure to read the side effects & if you can take the drug ...not everyone can if you have other existing health issues

 

That is good advice with any medication. However, as it is only available by prescription, a doctor would not advise it for anyone with an "acute illness".

For most people, there are no side effects. On more than one occasion it has spared me and my family when "stuff was going around."

 

Who should not take DUKORAL®?

 

 

DUKORAL® is not recommended for women who are pregnant, as the possible effects on the unborn child have not been evaluated.

 

It is also not recommended for travellers who have an acute illness. If are have an infection or a fever, you should postpone taking DUKORAL® until the illness has passed. However, you may take the vaccine if you have a mild illness, such as a cold.

 

The side effects of DUKORAL® are usually mild. The most common side effects of DUKORAL® are abdominal pain, diarrhea, nausea and vomiting. Some people who receive DUKORAL® may feel feverish.

 

Potentially serious side effects include dehydration and shortness of breath; however, these side effects occur very rarely.

 

[Paulchili]

 

The most common side effects of DUKORAL® are abdominal pain, diarrhea, nausea and vomiting. Some people who receive DUKORAL® may feel feverish.

Potentially serious side effects include dehydration.........

 

[/i]

 

:confused:

Aren't these the very symptoms that you want to PREVENT in the first place by taking DUKORAL?

Edited November 30, 2012 by Paulchili

[burm]

:confused:

Aren't these the very symptoms that you want to PREVENT in the first place by taking DUKORAL?

 

LOL. Re-read the short list of the possible side effects of Dukoral and now consider the possible effects of the oh so common Tylenol:

 

General

 

In general, acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Tylenol) is well-tolerated when administered in therapeutic doses.

 

Hepatic

 

Alcoholic patients may develop hepatotoxicity after even modest doses of acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Tylenol) In healthy patients, approximately 15 grams of acetaminophen is necessary to deplete liver glutathione stores by 70% in a 70 kg person. However, hepatotoxicity has been reported following smaller doses. Glutathione concentrations may be repleted by the antidote N-acetylcysteine. One case report has suggested that hypothermia may also be beneficial in decreasing liver damage during overdose.

 

In a recent retrospective study of 306 patients admitted for acetaminophen overdose, 6.9% had severe liver injury but all recovered. None of the 306 patients died.

 

A 19-year-old female developed hepatotoxicity, reactive plasmacytosis and agranulocytosis followed by a leukemoid reaction after acute acetaminophen toxicity.

 

Hepatic side effects including severe and sometimes fatal dose dependent hepatitis have been reported in alcoholic patients. Hepatotoxicity has been increased during fasting. Several cases of hepatotoxicity from chronic acetaminophen therapy at therapeutic doses have also been reported despite a lack of risk factors for toxicity.

 

Gastrointestinal

 

Gastrointestinal side effects have included nausea (34%) and vomiting (15%). Cases of acute pancreatitis have been reported rarely.

 

One study has suggested that acetaminophen may precipitate acute biliary pain and cholestasis. The mechanism of this effect may be related to inhibition of prostaglandin and alterations in the regulation of the sphincter of Oddi.

 

Renal

 

Renal side effects are rare and have included acute renal failure, acute tubular necrosis, and interstitial nephritis. Adverse renal effects are most often observed after overdose, after chronic abuse (often with multiple analgesics), or in association with acetaminophen-related hepatotoxicity.

 

Acute tubular necrosis usually occurs in conjunction with liver failure, but has been observed as an isolated finding in rare cases. A possible increase in the risk of renal cell carcinoma has been associated with chronic acetaminophen use as well.

 

One case-control study of patients with end-stage renal disease suggested that long term consumption of acetaminophen may significantly increase the risk of end-stage renal disease particularly in patients taking more than two pills per day.

 

However, a recent cohort study of analgesia use of initially healthy men concluded that moderate use of analgesics including acetaminophen was not associated with increased risk of renal disease.

 

Hypersensitivity

 

Hypersensitivity side effects including anaphylaxis and fixed drug eruptions have been reported rarely in association with acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Tylenol) use.

 

Hematologic

 

Hematologic side effects including rare cases of thrombocytopenia associated with acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Tylenol) have been reported. Acute thrombocytopenia has also been reported as having been caused by sensitivity to acetaminophen glucuronide, the major metabolite of acetaminophen. Methemoglobinemia with resulting cyanosis has been observed in the setting of acute overdose.

 

Dermatologic

 

Dermatologic side effects including erythematous skin rashes associated with acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Tylenol) have been reported, but are rare. Acetaminophen associated bullous erythema and purpura fulminans have been reported. One case of toxic epidermal necrolysis associated with acetaminophen administered to a pediatric patient has been reported. Dermatologic side effects associated with IV acetaminophen have included infusion site pain and peripheral edema.

 

Respiratory

 

Respiratory side effects have included dyspnea and a case of acetaminophen-induced eosinophilic pneumonia.

 

Cardiovascular

 

Two cases hypotension have been reported following the administration of acetaminophen (the active ingredient contained in Tylenol) Both patients experienced significant decreases in blood pressure. One of the two patients required pressor agents to maintain adequate mean arterial pressures. Neither episode was associated with symptoms of anaphylaxis. Neither patient was rechallenged after resolution of the initial episode.

 

Cardiovascular side effects including hypertension and hypotension have been reported following the administration of acetaminophen.

[Paulchili]

burm,

I agree - all medications have potential side effects; some are more common than others and some are more serious than others.

Everyone has to weigh the potential benefit vs the potential harm any time you take any medication :)

[CAG]

We also disembarked from Riviera and neither my husband nor I got sick. Our room stewardess was out sick on the 27th and 28th so who knows what caused the problem and why some got sick and others did not.

Cenia

[JimandStan]

We also disembarked from Riviera and neither my husband nor I got sick. Our room stewardess was out sick on the 27th and 28th so who knows what caused the problem and why some got sick and others did not.

Cenia

 

Cenia!

 

Are you home yet? I've been meaning to write you, but wondered if you weren't on Grandma duty for a while longer. :p

[CAG]

No Grandma duty this trip. Heading to Cambridge England on Christmas day to see the grand kids.