Does Europe Require Child Restraints on Excursions?

[gators70]

We have cruised quite a bit, but not often have we had the joy of taking the whole crew (MIL, kids, grandkids). We will be doing a 12-day Princess cruie of the Med, visiting Italy, Croatia, Turkey, and Greece. Does anyone know if any of these countries will require child restraints for our grandkids (ages, 5, 10, and 13) on the excursion buses? Or is this just an American thing?

[leaveitallbehind]

I have no idea but to me it wouldn't matter - I would want to use whatever safety restraints that are appropriate or available for all anyway. If bringing something along to assure this for the young ones was necessary, then that would just be part of my trip planning and packing.

[gators70]

I have no idea but to me it wouldn't matter - I would want to use whatever safety restraints that are appropriate or available for all anyway. If bringing something along to assure this (in particular for the young ones) was necessary then that would just be part of my trip planning and packing.

 

I guess we are just different then. I am conciencious about the safety of my family and to suggest otherwise is incorrect. I would just rather not check car seats and youth restraints, paying additional luggage charges, and lug them through airports and busy ports with a group of ten unless absolutely necessary. If it is perceived that this is being careless about my family's safety, then so be it.

[leaveitallbehind]

I guess we are just different then. I am conciencious about the safety of my family and to suggest otherwise is incorrect. I would just rather not check car seats and youth restraints , paying additional luggage charges, and lug them through airports and busy ports with a group of ten unless absolutely necessary. If it is perceived that this is being careless about my family's safety, then so be it.

 

I don't believe I said anything about you being careless - just my view on what I would do. And I too undersand the inconvenience of travelling with youth restraints. But - again, just my view - the concern for their safety would be the same with me in Europe as in the US.

[SadieN]

Love google.

 

googled 'child car restraints in Italy'

 

http://www.summerinitaly.com/traveltips/child-car-seats

[jocap]

Safety Belts have to be worn by law in the EU. It will be unusual for a coach not to have them, and although the driver might not insist, they are supposed to be worn.

In some small Greek islands, you might find people being a bit lax, and even riding motor bikes without the helmets, but it remains the law and you could be fined, although many tourists just follow what the locals do.....:(

[LHT28]

Are you talking seatbelts or what other kind of restraints ?

I cannot imagine a 5 yr in a car seat

 

I would check with the tour guide if you are doing private tours or if ship's tours as the cruise line

 

In most place they did have seatbelts & requested you to wear them

[grand isle joe]

On all our excursions in Europe on buses (through the cruise line(s))we have never worn nor told to wear seatbelts. We have had over18 tours from Spain to Greece.Our daughter started touring in Europe at age six and had free range of the bus.:D But when you see the size of the tour bus compared to the rest of the autos it is like David and Goliath. In the cabs we always wear our seatbelts though...crazy Rome drivers.

[Hlitner]

Have to agree with many of the other posts. Whether its required, or enforced, the bottom line is that we would never travel with a child (or adult) with proper restraints. I say this having driven thousands or miles all over Europe. Yes, they have nasty auto accidents just like anywhere else. Most of Europe even requires seat belts on tour buses (not often enforced).

 

Hank

[John Bull]

On all our excursions in Europe on buses (through the cruise line(s))we have never worn nor told to wear seatbelts. We have had over18 tours from Spain to Greece.Our daughter started touring in Europe at age six and had free range of the bus.:D But when you see the size of the tour bus compared to the rest of the autos it is like David and Goliath. In the cabs we always wear our seatbelts though...crazy Rome drivers.

 

Just a few odds & ends about EU countries from a recently-retired coach driver.

You may never have been told verbally to wear your seatbelts on coaches but in all EU countries since about 5 years ago when seatbelt-wearing became compulsory, there have been decals in the windows alongside every seat.

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/140676801031?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0

That's the legal minimum requirement. IMHO poorly-designed & they just become part of the background, but they'll be there.

 

With a few exemptions, the law requiring the wearing of seatbelts in a moving vehicle applies to folk sat in a seat with a seatbelt. So it's perfectly legal to unbuckle to go to the toilet when the coach is on the move, though if the driver brakes it can get a bit messy in there :D

 

I don't know of any coach passenger who has been prosecuted for not wearing a seatbelt, it's effectively impossible to prove with a spot-check.

 

Coach travel is very safe - but you don't have to be in a smash to be injured.

I'd never let a kid sit in the centre back seat because they can't be trusted to wear a seatbelt, and if I had to brake heavily that kid could be propelled down the aisle to the front of the coach. And I've heard of unrestrained front seat passengers cartwheeling out of their seat onto the steps just because of emergency braking.

 

In the UK & probably elsewhere, if you are injured in a car or taxi or coach, whether you were wearing your seatbelt may affect the level of any compensation. http://www.e-lawresources.co.uk/Froom-v-Butcher.php

 

As Jo's post, these & other road safety laws are applied with widely-varying degrees of enthusiasm. Even more so outside the EU.

 

JB :)

[grand isle joe]

Just a few odds & ends about EU countries from a recently-retired coach driver.

You may never have been told verbally to wear your seatbelts on coaches but in all EU countries since about 5 years ago when seatbelt-wearing became compulsory, there have been decals in the windows alongside every seat.

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/140676801031?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0

That's the legal minimum requirement. IMHO poorly-designed & they just become part of the background, but they'll be there.

 

With a few exemptions, the law requiring the wearing of seatbelts in a moving vehicle applies to folk sat in a seat with a seatbelt. So it's perfectly legal to unbuckle to go to the toilet when the coach is on the move, though if the driver brakes it can get a bit messy in there :D

 

I don't know of any coach passenger who has been prosecuted for not wearing a seatbelt, it's effectively impossible to prove with a spot-check.

 

Coach travel is very safe - but you don't have to be in a smash to be injured.

I'd never let a kid sit in the centre back seat because they can't be trusted to wear a seatbelt, and if I had to brake heavily that kid could be propelled down the aisle to the front of the coach. And I've heard of unrestrained front seat passengers cartwheeling out of their seat onto the steps just because of emergency braking.

 

In the UK & probably elsewhere, if you are injured in a car or taxi or coach, whether you were wearing your seatbelt may affect the level of any compensation. http://www.e-lawresources.co.uk/Froom-v-Butcher.php

 

As Jo's post, these & other road safety laws are applied with widely-varying degrees of enthusiasm. Even more so outside the EU.

 

JB :)

 

 

JB, You and your fellow coach drivers have my upmost repect . ALL the bus drivers have been totally professional and the skill it takes to navigate in Europe puts these drivers on a par with Indy drivers in my opinion. My family have always felt very comfortable even on those ancient Roman roads that hug the Med. and you peer out of the windows to a 400+ tumble into the sea. As a Yank Thanks for all your safe trips you provide for us sunburned tourists.:)

[GoVikes]

We have cruised quite a bit, but not often have we had the joy of taking the whole crew (MIL, kids, grandkids). We will be doing a 12-day Princess cruie of the Med, visiting Italy, Croatia, Turkey, and Greece. Does anyone know if any of these countries will require child restraints for our grandkids (ages, 5, 10, and 13) on the excursion buses? Or is this just an American thing?

 

When we did our Baltic cruise, we were told that our kids(9 and 6) were both fine to use only the seatbelts in the vehicle. Are you booking excursions through the cruise line? On an excursion bus, I would imagine you would be fine with just a seat belt(school buses where we live do not even have seat belts!). You could call Princess to verify, though.

 

Are you talking seatbelts or what other kind of restraints ?

I cannot imagine a 5 yr in a car seat

 

I would check with the tour guide if you are doing private tours or if ship's tours as the cruise line

 

In most place they did have seatbelts & requested you to wear them

The car seat/booster seat rules vary, but where we live it is:

 

• Child turns eight years old
  
• Child weighs 36 kg (80 lbs.)
  
• Child is 145 cm (57 ins. or 4 ft. 9 ins.) tall
  

[LHT28]

The car seat/booster seat rules vary, but where we live it is:

 

• Child turns eight years old
  
• Child weighs 36 kg (80 lbs.)
  
• Child is 145 cm (57 ins. or 4 ft. 9 ins.) tall
  

Exactly & that is why I said to check with who you are doing the tour with

 

What the rules are here may have no bearing on the Country they are touring in

 

With the internet it is easier to find out these things

[John Bull]

...........puts these drivers on a par with Indy drivers in my opinion. .:)

 

Thanks, Joe.

I recall receiving a similar compliment from a traffic officer while hurrying along deserted streets to get back to the yard at about four o'clock one morning :D

No ticket, though ;)

 

.

 

 

The car seat/booster seat rules vary, but where we live it is:

 

• Child turns eight years old
  
• Child weighs 36 kg (80 lbs.)
  
• Child is 145 cm (57 ins. or 4 ft. 9 ins.) tall
  

 

In the EU the booster seat is up to 12 years old or 135cm.

 

But exempt in taxis.

And - though don't tell the kids - under 14's in coaches are exempt from seatbelts entirely. That's because it's the car driver who is liable if an under 14 isn't wearing a seatbelt, but the law recognises that a coach driver can't be responsible for 50+ kids, often on two decks.

 

Like I said, lots of complications & exemptions. :rolleyes:

 

JB :)

[cello56]

Personally, I would not care what the letter of the law said, I would be concerned about the best way to keep my child safe. That is obviously in an age/weight/height appropriate child restraint.

 

The laws of physics do not change when you are on vacation. I would hate to have the inconvenience of travelling with child restraints result in a lifetime of regret and sorrow. Vacations are most certainly not the time to find out just how good the local healthcare system is.

 

That is my opinion. Others may be willing to risk going without the proper safety restraints, but I would not.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Personally, I would not care what the letter of the law said, I would be concerned about the best way to keep my child safe. That is obviously in an age/weight/height appropriate child restraint.

 

The laws of physics do not change when you are on vacation.

And nor do the laws of probability. More Italians died last year in cruise ship accidents than died in bus crashes. Make sure you keep your child strapped in 24/7, with lifejacket attached to the seat, and out on deck so it will float away when the ship inevitably sinks.

 

Child seats not required on any European bus line, so far as I know. I think it's because buses are such a safe mode of transport. Seat belts usually are required.

[cello56]

Probabilities mean nothing if it is your child who is hurt or killed if a child seat could have prevented it.

[GoVikes]

I cannot imagine a 5 yr in a car seat

 

Exactly & that is why I said to check with who you are doing the tour with

 

What the rules are here may have no bearing on the Country they are touring in

 

 

Sorry--I guess I misunderstood what you wrote. :confused: It sounded to me like you were surprised that a 5 y/o would still be in a carseat. I was just letting you know that it wouldn't be unusual for a child to be in one until at least 8 years old(or as we now know from JB up to 12 in the EU:)). I didn't suggest that it had any bearing on the countries OP would tour in.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Probabilities mean nothing if it is your child who is hurt or killed if a child seat could have prevented it.

That's certainly true. But why would you goto great inconvenience to reduce the very tiny risk, when there are much larger risks which could be more easily addressed? That's what I mean by probability.

 

Rather than lugging three child seats around with you, you would be far better making sure all your children wear cycling helmets at all times (not just when they're on a bike). The number of child pedestrians killed is far greater than the number of car passengers, let alone coach passengers - the simple measure of saying that all children must wear helmets out of doors would save many lives.

 

And if you aren't willing to improve your child's odds by insisting he/she must wear a helmet at all times, then why make the huge effort of lugging a fairly large child seat around with you? It's a bit like ensuring you wash your hands before eating your 2-week old chicken sandwich. You're addresing one danger but not looking at where the serious danger lies.

[gators70]

I had no idea that I would start a thread that incited so much controversy. I guess each person has to make their own decision as to the use of child restraints on tours in foreign ports.

 

I promise not to judge anyone on this board for their opinion.

 

BTW, the tour operator that I am using (at least in Athens) has advised that lap belts were sufficient for all children on his bus.....whether or not that is the law.

[notsodesperatehousewife]

I would start by asking the parents what the kids use currently. I have 2 kids and I imagine the 13 year old is beyond this, the 10 year old might use a booster depending on weight/height and the 5 year old uses a booster, possibly a five point harness car seat but generally the cut off for them is 4 years or 40 lbs.

 

Boosters only make sense if there are head rests - their main purpose is to bring the kid's head up to the level of the rest to avoid possible neck injury. If you are traveling by bus, chances are good the seats are bench seats and this is moot. The child would be just as safe if not safer without a booster. A cab would be different, of course. More information about vehicles being used would be helpful to answer your question.

 

We have traveled with boosters and they don't take up that much space. Airlines are required to transport them free of charge. But frankly they are a pain to lug around. If it were me, I'd bring one for the little one, but not the other two, especially if you plan to rent a car or use a cab. Not necessary for the other two, seat belts should be adequate.

 

BTW, on our upcoming cruise we will be traveling booster-free for the first time ever and I am very excited!