Gratuities to be added to sea pass account daily.

[VK3DQ]

John, a few questions:

 

If you were to pre-pay your gratuities before the cruise, does the same 10% GST tax apply?

 

I can understand your logic, and it's been stated many times before. However, it's now part of the cruise industry standard to add these daily charges. I believe the cruise lines that don't do this are actually more expensive.

 

Hello

 

 

Yes all prepaid tips included on the invoice MUST include a 10% GST Tax in Australia

 

Its not a question of money :p its a matter of principle as customers of a cruise line we do not employ their staff , but of course our fares provide the company's income

In Australia we find it offensive and degrading when employers attempt to pay a wage which is below our minimum living wage standards which are mandated in law.

We believe in a "fair go" for all.

 

I think what bugs me about this entire thing is the perception that the CRUISE LINE is not paying its staff in a proper manner

If the ships were flagged in Australia the current wage structure I sure would not be legal

 

Its a part of our way of life , every one who works deserves a LIVING wage , any business that does not pay a living wage has no place in our society

 

 

What we insist on is to know in advance what our costs are , there can be service charges BUT they must all appear on the invoice in a clear and truthful manner.

 

What you cannot do is charge a price for a cruise and then add to that cruise price by way of a service charge whilst I'm on the ship , you must include it on my invoice at time of payment.

 

So when I buy my cruise I know exactly what my costs are at the time.

This of course does not include things that I buy ON the ship such as drinks they are a separate transaction and I have been told up front there is a service charge applied, thats fine its any aspect which is "hidden" which is a problem , and thats why I say that RCCL have been very clever in the way that they word the tipping section of their website . They are VERY close on the Australian website to being in breach of our consumer laws , very close indeed :D

 

I hope this throws some light on a down under perspective

 

 

Best Regards

 

John

[JYD Hawkeye]

I just called and switched my 8 pm dining time to MYD with relative ease. Sailing 4-14 , thought the MTD would have been full, with the news of the incease and mandatory grats starting soon. So none of you can call me cheap since I paid my grats up front. LOL Better call now if you plan on doing the same thing before MTD is full, per TA.

[The_Big_M]

All prepaid charges paid via RCCL in Australia incur an additional 10% GST Tax

 

so we pay a tip and then pay a tax on the tip :D

 

Not true. Cruises are international services and do not have GST.

 

Check the invoice from your cruise and you won't see any amount for GST.

[OTownNick]

There are always different versions of the "pooled tips" and how it works. On my recent trip I asked my stateroom attendant and she prefers cash because she said she gets to keep it all and not contribute to the pool. She said normally the prepaid grat. get shared where she gets most but a smaller percentage goes into the pool for behind the scenes workers. She said if she gets stiffed, the same percentage of the pool goes to the others but sometimes her percentage gets covered by RCL and sometimes not, so it comes out of her pocket if RCL doesn't cover her if she gets stiffed.

 

 

That to me doesn't make sense..if by getting cash they dont contribute to he pool, then everyone else gets less...so she's either being dishonest to the others she's supposed to share with by not reporting the cash tip or maybe they have a weird policy...

 

For sure it's confusing but I always tip at a minimum the recommended amount anyway so I really don't care..and I'm sure any extra cash IS able to be kept. Overall I'm glad they are prepaying gratuities because maybe there are quite a few who don't tip at all.

[VK3DQ]

Not true. Cruises are international services and do not have GST.

 

Check the invoice from your cruise and you won't see any amount for GST.

 

The invoice is from a company trading in Australia , they MUST include GST

 

but checking i do notice that the invoice does NOT include an Australian ABN so it would appear that RCCL are trading in Australia and not using an ABN .. if so this opens a huge can of worms.

 

:confused:

 

regards

 

john

[The_Big_M]

Hello

 

 

Yes all prepaid tips included on the invoice MUST include a 10% GST Tax in Australia

 

Again, not true.

 

I think what bugs me about this entire thing is the perception that the CRUISE LINE is not paying its staff in a proper manner

If the ships were flagged in Australia the current wage structure I sure would not be legal

 

That would be the same even in the US. They also have a minimum wage for staff, which staff on cruise ships do not get. But it's not specific to cruising, that's why many shipping including cargo is done under 'flags of convenience.'

 

Its a part of our way of life , every one who works deserves a LIVING wage , any business that does not pay a living wage has no place in our society

 

Yet many Australians happily cruise, and many Australians happily drop/don't pay the tip denying the staff that 'living wage.'

 

What you cannot do is charge a price for a cruise and then add to that cruise price by way of a service charge whilst I'm on the ship , you must include it on my invoice at time of payment.

 

I don't see why not. People fly through cities and get charged departure taxes that are cash only and extra, yet the tickets were bought in Oz. People visit hotels in other cities, yet are then hit with city taxes that are additional to the invoiced cost.

[marci22]

In Australia we find it offensive and degrading when employers attempt to pay a wage which is below our minimum living wage standards which are mandated in law.

We believe in a "fair go" for all.

 

I hope this throws some light on a down under perspective

 

 

Best Regards

 

John

 

In U.S., most people who work in tipped positions do not find it offensive. As a matter of fact, most people would not work for minimum wage in what is usually a tipped position, because you typically make much more in a tipped position.

 

You seem to think that we subject people to horrible degrading episodes by using a tipping system.

 

Living on actual U.S. 'minimum wage' is another story. But those aren't tipped positions.

[The_Big_M]

The invoice is from a company trading in Australia , they MUST include GST

 

but checking i do notice that the invoice does NOT include an Australian ABN so it would appear that RCCL are trading in Australia and not using an ABN .. if so this opens a huge can of worms.

 

:confused:

 

regards

 

john

 

No, that's definitely not the case.

 

Some charges do not have GST, amongst them international goods and services.

 

Australia Post is an Australian company, yet if you buy stamps for overseas there is no GST. Woolworths is an Australian company, but if you buy food there is no GST.

 

All sorts of exemptions exist, and cruises are one of them - and of course said tips on such cruises.

 

No can of worms.

 

BTW, this is yet another reason cruises are if anything a drain on taxation and economic growth for Australia... but that's another topic, that most people don't want to look at!

[cruisin07family]

Hello

 

 

Yes all prepaid tips included on the invoice MUST include a 10% GST Tax in Australia

 

Its not a question of money :p its a matter of principle as customers of a cruise line we do not employ their staff , but of course our fares provide the company's income

In Australia we find it offensive and degrading when employers attempt to pay a wage which is below our minimum living wage standards which are mandated in law.

We believe in a "fair go" for all.

 

I think what bugs me about this entire thing is the perception that the CRUISE LINE is not paying its staff in a proper manner

If the ships were flagged in Australia the current wage structure I sure would not be legal

 

Its a part of our way of life , every one who works deserves a LIVING wage , any business that does not pay a living wage has no place in our society

 

 

What we insist on is to know in advance what our costs are , there can be service charges BUT they must all appear on the invoice in a clear and truthful manner.

 

What you cannot do is charge a price for a cruise and then add to that cruise price by way of a service charge whilst I'm on the ship , you must include it on my invoice at time of payment.

 

So when I buy my cruise I know exactly what my costs are at the time.

This of course does not include things that I buy ON the ship such as drinks they are a separate transaction and I have been told up front there is a service charge applied, thats fine its any aspect which is "hidden" which is a problem , and thats why I say that RCCL have been very clever in the way that they word the tipping section of their website . They are VERY close on the Australian website to being in breach of our consumer laws , very close indeed :D

 

I hope this throws some light on a down under perspective

 

 

Best Regards

 

John

 

I wonder what is a decent wage and if all 1000+ crew/staff were to receive it, how much more money would be required each week and how much that would increase the cruise fares? For a comparison, the only example I know of personally is the Norwegian ship, Pride of America. It is an all-American crew and staff and they have to meet US standards for pay (minimum at least plus time and one-half for more than 40 hrs). My son is employed on that ship. The prices for sailing on that ship are crazy expensive. Yes, it is also cruising the Hawaiian islands which is expensive anyway but I'm sure the higher cruise fares are at least in part because of the American crew PLUS they still have the $12 daily service charge.

 

As to another part of your reply, you do know what the costs are in advance. They are $12 per person, per day.

[3dog]

And, to repeat: THIS is why the crew prefer automatic tips. The money is theirs and theirs alone.

 

I find this statement interesting. Is the implication that if they get cash, they cannot keep all of it, but if "automatic" they get it all? I find that hard to believe, as how will the cruise line ever know how much cash they received. Surely, it is possible that the line assumes the suggested gratuity, and expects the employee to share some of that with others (which wouldn't change no matter if by cash or automatically), but cash can much more easily be hidden than something that is automatically deducted from the sea pass account.

 

The only reason I can see that staff would prefer it to be done automatically, is that they will (nearly) always receive it.

[coupleoffish]

Just off the phone with RCCl and they said if you do not want auto gratuities added then all you do is when on board go to the purser's desk & have them remove it. We have done it before on another line because we like the old fashion way of tipping ourselves to everyone who takes care of us.

[Charles4515]

There are always different versions of the "pooled tips" and how it works. On my recent trip I asked my stateroom attendant and she prefers cash because she said she gets to keep it all and not contribute to the pool. She said normally the prepaid grat. get shared where she gets most but a smaller percentage goes into the pool for behind the scenes workers. She said if she gets stiffed, the same percentage of the pool goes to the others but sometimes her percentage gets covered by RCL and sometimes not, so it comes out of her pocket if RCL doesn't cover her if she gets stiffed.

 

 

That to me doesn't make sense..if by getting cash they dont contribute to he pool, then everyone else gets less...so she's either being dishonest to the others she's supposed to share with by not reporting the cash tip or maybe they have a weird policy...

 

For sure it's confusing but I always tip at a minimum the recommended amount anyway so I really don't care..and I'm sure any extra cash IS able to be kept. Overall I'm glad they are prepaying gratuities because maybe there are quite a few who don't tip at all.

 

The current version is confusing because they have prepaid, cash and vouchers. Only some was pooled. Thus the cabin attendent who did the screw the crew video prefered cash. He showed the documents, they assume a certain percent stiff and a certain per cent pay which may not be the reality, but they deduct it assuming that per cent tipped. A real cluster F**** to figure out. He thought the cruise line was on the take, but I think the wierd sharing formula led to paranoa. With automatic gratuities it will all be pooled. It should be more transparent and not confusing to the crew. We can hope so anyway. Ask your cabin attendent on cruises you do after March what they think.

[beachnative]

The invoice is from a company trading in Australia , they MUST include GST

 

but checking i do notice that the invoice does NOT include an Australian ABN so it would appear that RCCL are trading in Australia and not using an ABN .. if so this opens a huge can of worms.

 

:confused:

 

regards

 

john

 

John,

 

We are visiting Australia next year and IF I understand what you are saying I should never tip while I am in Australia because you all pay your workers enough that I don't have to tip.

 

Thanks for the info...I usually tip everywhere I travel but I certainly can refrain from it in Australia.

[temple1]

I find this statement interesting. Is the implication that if they get cash, they cannot keep all of it, but if "automatic" they get it all? I find that hard to believe, as how will the cruise line ever know how much cash they received. Surely, it is possible that the line assumes the suggested gratuity, and expects the employee to share some of that with others (which wouldn't change no matter if by cash or automatically), but cash can much more easily be hidden than something that is automatically deducted from the sea pass account.

 

The only reason I can see that staff would prefer it to be done automatically, is that they will (nearly) always receive it.

 

I think from what came to light from the disgruntled cabin steward episode - it is something to the effect that tipped staff are expected to make a minimum amount in tips per cruise. The company uses that as a baseline amount and for example - say the signed contract states the Cabin attendent gets 85% of the gratuities and behind the scenes staff gets 15% they will take the 15% based on what is anticipated. So the Cabin steward might pocket the cash from 3 cabins, 5 cabins prepaid and 2 of those left additional gratuities, 1 stiffed and 1 paid less than the recommended amount. The company will calculate the base gratuity on 10 cabins and deduct the 15% from the cabin attendents wages.

 

These are all creative numbers just to show how different cabin attendents could have different views on how to collect gratuities.

 

Of course none of us really know for sure and it really isn't our business.

[VK3DQ]

John,

 

We are visiting Australia next year and IF I understand what you are saying I should never tip while I am in Australia because you all pay your workers enough that I don't have to tip.

 

Thanks for the info...I usually tip everywhere I travel but I certainly can refrain from it in Australia.

 

well yes and no :D its rather hard to explain , tips are not required (as part of a wage structure) but can be given at your discression , ..as someone once said in a very famous film about Australians "There a weird mob"

 

:)

 

Its up to you if you want to tip its not required ...

 

regards

 

john

[wwcruisers]

Just off the phone with RCCl and they said if you do not want auto gratuities added then all you do is when on board go to the purser's desk & have them remove it. We have done it before on another line because we like the old fashion way of tipping ourselves to everyone who takes care of us.

 

We also had always used the cash/envelope system on RC, and considered "opting-out" of the auto-tip, when we first cruised on X. But something we read here on CC changed our minds. Since RC and X are owned by the same company, I'd guess things will work this way on RC, too: Apparently, anytime a passenger removes the auto-tip, their assigned crew members (waiters, stewards) are required to hand over any cash tips from that cruiser, to be divided among the staff. However, if the passenger leaves the auto-tip in place, the crew members get to keep any additional cash that they receive. That works for us! :cool:

[Georgiagolfer]

DW and I like the auto tip idea, service charge, or whatever people refer to it. Won't keep us from giving additional for exceptional service, but 1 less thing to worry about.

[appleosprey]

 

 

Yet many Australians happily cruise, and many Australians happily drop/don't pay the tip denying the staff that 'living wage.'

 

 

 

 

What is your point?

Sure Many Australians do not tip, as do any Americans,Europeans,blah blah blah. There are lots of nationalities that don't tip.

 

It should be up to the employer to give that 'living wage'

 

There are certain countries in the world where tipping is the norm yet they have the most dysfunctional society and so many different classes and living standards

 

In Australia most people have a great standard of living because everyone who works gets paid a good wage. Australia has one of the highest living standards in the world so they must be doing something right and you don't need to tip nobody nothing.

 

Just saying!

 

We should copy countries where their system works in my opinion

[appleosprey]

John,

 

We are visiting Australia next year and IF I understand what you are saying I should never tip while I am in Australia because you all pay your workers enough that I don't have to tip.

 

Thanks for the info...I usually tip everywhere I travel but I certainly can refrain from it in Australia.

 

That's correct, you don't need to tip a cent in Australia. If you think that your service is good then you just say "thanks a lot mate, have a nice day"

 

In Australia the tipping is done in manners not currency

 

You can keep your tipping money for when you get back home

[3dog]

I think from what came to light from the disgruntled cabin steward episode - it is something to the effect that tipped staff are expected to make a minimum amount in tips per cruise. The company uses that as a baseline amount and for example - say the signed contract states the Cabin attendent gets 85% of the gratuities and behind the scenes staff gets 15% they will take the 15% based on what is anticipated. So the Cabin steward might pocket the cash from 3 cabins, 5 cabins prepaid and 2 of those left additional gratuities, 1 stiffed and 1 paid less than the recommended amount. The company will calculate the base gratuity on 10 cabins and deduct the 15% from the cabin attendents wages.

 

Right. This comes under "the line assumes the suggested gratuity", and is common among many service industries. And does suck if a staff member is expected to make up the shared portion of a stiffed gratuity.

 

Of course none of us really know for sure and it really isn't our business.

 

Indeed.

 

I question, though, if the policy change will reduce the amount of tipping above the suggested, and then if amount that staff receives is actually lower. Considering this an automatic charge, I am more likely to request a gratuity be removed should I use a specialty restaurant and not use the dining room. After all, I paid a service charge to the staff that served me (and possibly an additional gratuity), there really isn't a reason to give something to someone who did not.

[3dog]

Apparently, anytime a passenger removes the auto-tip, their assigned crew members (waiters, stewards) are required to hand over any cash tips from that cruiser, to be divided among the staff. However, if the passenger leaves the auto-tip in place, the crew members get to keep any additional cash that they receive. That works for us! :cool:

 

I still find this interesting. How would they know how much cash was received? The staff member could easily state that they received less than they actually received, or even state they received nothing at all. And even if there were the "assumed minimum" in place, there is certainly no motivation to declare any more than the suggested amount, and totally pocket the remaining.

[Katana_Geldar]

I've always understood that employees are paid less because their job also includes room and board.

[onyourtoes]

I have not gotten an email like that yet, and I have a cruise on the books. I notice both of you are from Europe, I wonder if it is regional?

 

 

I am from Cleveland Heights, OH (USA) and I have received the email. This is how mine read:

 

 

We look forward to welcoming you onboard for your upcoming Royal Caribbean International cruise vacation!

 

As you prepare to set sail, we wanted to notify you of a change to our gratuity policy. As of March 1, 2013, Royal Caribbean will add an automatic daily gratuity of $12.00 USD ($14.25 USD for Suite guests) to the onboard account of each guest to be shared by Dining Services Staff, Stateroom Attendants and Other Housekeeping Services Personnel that work to enhance your cruise. This gratuity replaces our previously recommended gratuity guidelines.

 

If you have already prepaid gratuities for your upcoming cruise, this policy change will not affect you. Accordingly, we will not apply the daily gratuity to your account while you are onboard. If you have not prepaid your gratuities, you will see the daily automatic gratuity applied to your onboard SeaPass® account during your upcoming cruise.

 

Please contact your travel agent with any questions and thank you for choosing to cruise with us.

 

Sincerely,

 

Royal Caribbean International

[Charles4515]

I still find this interesting. How would they know how much cash was received? The staff member could easily state that they received less than they actually received, or even state they received nothing at all. And even if there were the "assumed minimum" in place, there is certainly no motivation to declare any more than the suggested amount, and totally pocket the remaining.

 

If they get caught not reporting they will get fired but there is also peer pressure.

 

But think with the automatic collection you are telling the cruise line. You have to opt out. You go to desk and say I am not tipping because so and so did bad service. Then they have to explain. They are in trouble. Or you say I will be paying in cash. So they are going to expect the crew to share it. They will write that down. I am sure they will believe you even if there are doubters here......

[CRUISE QUEEN GAIL]

I have had 117 cruises on RCCL, and know for a fact, that they are THRILLED with the Mandatory Gratuities. I once went with a waiter who received EMPTY ENVELOPES at the end of the cruise.

 

As far as the crewmember saying that he receives 1/2 of the gratuities...I have never heard of such a thing. I'm sure it's that Waiters/Asst Waiters/Head Waiters/Housekeeping...share the pot. Of course they are not getting the FULL $12.

 

I received the announcement yesterday in an email. This is not just for the UK...I live in Florida and got the announcement for my upcoming cruise. I think it's ABOUT TIME...almost ALL other cruise lines add on the gratuities.

 

All I can say is FINALLY...RCCL woke up.