Celebrity competition

[Kevnzworld]

I don't think that Celebrity has any direct competition. I checked out HAL and NCL, ones too old and the other allows too much smoking and both have older style ships.

I cruised Regent for years. They go to smaller ports, and the food is a little better. Dollar for dollar I would still cruise on the S class Celebrity ships instead.

Maybe Oceania, though its smaller and twice as expensive.

I wish Celebrity had real competition so that I could have an alternative choice !

[Oville]

I don't think that Celebrity has any direct competition. I checked out HAL and NCL, ones too old and the other allows too much smoking and both have older style ships.

I cruised Regent for years. They go to smaller ports, and the food is a little better. Dollar for dollar I would still cruise on the S class Celebrity ships instead.

Maybe Oceania, though its smaller and twice as expensive.

I wish Celebrity had real competition so that I could have an alternative choice !

 

But until another cruiseline cuts way back on their smoking policy, that's not going to happen soon.

[PinotBlanc]

I don't think that Celebrity has any direct competition. I checked out HAL and NCL, ones too old and the other allows too much smoking and both have older style ships.

I cruised Regent for years. They go to smaller ports, and the food is a little better. Dollar for dollar I would still cruise on the S class Celebrity ships instead.

Maybe Oceania, though its smaller and twice as expensive.

I wish Celebrity had real competition so that I could have an alternative choice !

 

The posts on this thread give me the information I want for booking future cruises.

 

Per diem, services, ship population, itineraries, food are important factors. The smoking policies are priority #1 for us.

 

Kevnzworld, I'll follow your post as you nailed it for me with this one I've quoted.

 

My thanks to all posters for the time you took sharing ways to analyze competition.

 

Penny

[Oville]

"They are less inclusive in their pricing (they charge extra for almost everything), What does Royal and NCL charge for that Celebrity does not?"

 

X has free ice cream not soft serve, and yogurt ice cream at the spa?

Don't forget free M&M's and assorted candy at the ice cream counter.

No other line not even Oceania & Azamara can compete with that.

Maybe that makes X a super premium line?

 

Though Princess supporters say they have the best pizza on the high seas so maybe they are tops. Who would want to sail on a ship with sub par pizza?

 

Thanks, you made me giggle.

[slp123]

I'm an ardent Celebrity cruiser, it's my favorite line for sure. But your comments don't seem to jive with my experience on Celebrity vs Royal and NCL.

 

Has I stated earlier, we all value different things with greater or lesser intensity. What may be included in a cruise and of great value to me may be of little or no value to you. That's why it is not at all a surprise that my comments may not jive with your experience. Principally for this reason, I have tried to keep my comments focused on industry-wide statistical data. For example one way to measure value is to compare the per diem price of a cruise. You mentioned that you don't understand the use pf per diem pricing. All that is the total price charged for your cabin divided by the length (3 of days) of the cruise. This allows comparison of all cruises, no matter their length.

 

There are many examples of extra charges on RCCL and NCL that are not charged on HAL or X. My list of examples below are based on lengthy discussion with close friends who cruise often on RCCL and Celebrity. My first hand knowledge is limited to my two RCCL cruises (never been on NCL) compared to my 6 HAL cruises (as I have only been on Celebrity once before). So here are some examples between RCCL and either HAL or X.

1. Most ships have an every day menu in the MDR in addition to a changing daily menu. Everything on the everyday menu is offered at no extra charge. RCCL is now charging $19.95 in the MDR if you want a steak or lobster.
   
2. In HAL's MDR (and I believe this is true for Celebrity) there is no extra charge for a special coffee like a cappuccino or mocha latte. RCCL charges for such a coffee.
   
3. RCCL charges for fresh squeezed orange juice at breakfast, I never heard of such a thing on any line until someone told me that yesterday
   
4. On HAL all movies on command and DVD's from the library are offered free of charge. I am told NCL and RCL charge for newly released movies
   
5. On HAL every stateroom from inside to suite is offered the same room service menu. On X you have to purchase at least a Concierge grade cabin to get full room service. In fact you have to book a Concierge cabin to get the level of amenities that HAL puts into all its cabin, such as sparkling wine on departure, fresh fruit in the room, free shoe shines and better towels and linens. So in essence you are being extra'd when you take a concierge level cabin to receive what HAL includes in its standard cabin
   

 

It is hard to get into a discussion with you on staff ratios and cabin size. You say what I say is plain untrue? Based on what? Your memory of past cruises? That's not reliable because you can't make a simultaneous evaluation. What your TA has told you? That's not reliable as some of them will tell you what will get you to book.I based my comments on independent industry studies and cruise ship trade magazines and online sites which are not seeking to sell another cruise to another tourist.

 

Based on the study of articles appearing in such online resources as the "Cruise Ship Org" and other industry sites that are used by companies in the ship building or cruise provisioning industry. Also I study the market study reports commissioned by cruise lines to better market their product and compete in the market place. Many of these reports are proprietary and I do not have permission to paste contents here nor does CC allow links back to these sites if they are in any way related to retailing or wholesaling cruise vacations. And while I am pretty sure some of these sites are not directly involved, it is not clear if they are indirectly linked.

 

That being said I can provide a link to a very interesting market strategy report commissioned by Carnival which makes a comparison of all major lines. Of great of interest is Carnival's view of its Princess line which it owns . You will see in that Strategy Report, Carnival positions Princess as a mass market line and not directly competitive with Celebrity but it does consider HAL to be a premium line, directly competing with Celebrity.

 

Finally there are other objective yard sticks by which to determine the quality of the product being offered. Here are a few examples

 

1. Compartive of average size of cabins sorted by cabin class
   
2. $$ amount spent per passenger on food in free dining venues. (Celebrity being one of the few lines if not the only line which recently increased its spending in the MDR)
   
3. The passenger space ratio on any ship or on average among all ships owned by a specific cruise line. How badly can this be impacted if cruise is booked beyoond standard double occ.
   
4. What is the passenger/crew ratio on the ship or on average on all ships operated by a line. Obviously the lower the ratio, the better the service
   
5. Taking a cruise means your are taking a leased interest on a portion of a ship for a number of days. The more a cruise company spent in building that ship, adding more amenities, keeping the ship up-to-date and well maintained, the greater the value of what you are renting for a term of weeks.
   

 

I will be glad to add some information in these categories in the days to come. And yes Celebrity has a fantastic passenger to crew ratio which is 2.1:1

[Christine Frances]

<snip> On HAL every stateroom from inside to suite is offered the same room service menu. On X you have to purchase at least a Concierge grade cabin to get full room service. In fact you have to book a Concierge cabin to get the level of amenities that HAL puts into all its cabin, such as sparkling wine on departure, fresh fruit in the room, free shoe shines and better towels and linens. So in essence you are being extra'd when you take a concierge level cabin to receive what HAL includes in its standard cabin <snip>

 

This is also available on Celebrity - Hot room service (including breakfast) to all cabins and the option to order off the MDR menu during dining hours. I know this is not available on Princess and Oceania but don't know about any of the other lines.

 

And apparently not all cabins get the Sparkling wine on HAL either http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=36351107&postcount=2

[slp123]

<snip> On HAL every stateroom from inside to suite is offered the same room service menu. On X you have to purchase at least a Concierge grade cabin to get full room service. In fact you have to book a Concierge cabin to get the level of amenities that HAL puts into all its cabin, such as sparkling wine on departure, fresh fruit in the room, free shoe shines and better towels and linens. So in essence you are being extra'd when you take a concierge level cabin to receive what HAL includes in its standard cabin <snip>

 

This is also available on Celebrity - Hot room service (including breakfast) to all cabins and the option to order off the MDR menu during dining hours. I know this is not available on Princess and Oceania but don't know about any of the other lines.

 

I am a little unclear. When you go on the Celebrity site and look at the description of the extra amenities that are provided to concierge class passengers, it lists Expanded room service menu. Logically that means that the room service menu provided in regular cabins is narrower in scope. Does anyone have menus to compare.

[mafig]

RE: Royal Caribbean #1. / SIP123 post

 

They still serve steak and lobster at no cost. On the steak and lobster nights.

However, if you want a steak at another time that comes from their special restaurant, they charge the extra fee. The regular steak is still available for free. Supposedly, this works for people who are with others who aren't interested in going to the steakhouse, that way one person can have the steak (again, from the specialty restaurant) while the others may order from the menu. Don't know about the lobster ... assume it's the same, since Royal still has "lobster night."

 

RE: HAL #2

Upon reading the HAL boards, it seems they are starting to charge extra for the specialty coffees on some ships.

[slp123]

RE: Royal Caribbean #1.

 

They still serve steak and lobster at no cost. On the steak and lobster nights.

However, if you want a steak at another time that comes from their special restaurant, they charge the extra fee. The regular steak is still available for free. Supposedly, this works for people who are with others who aren't interested in going to the steakhouse, that way one person can have the steak (again, from the specialty restaurant) while the others may order from the menu. Don't know about the lobster ... assume it's the same, since Royal still has "lobster night."

 

RE: HAL #2

Upon reading the HAL boards, it seems they are starting to charge extra for the specialty coffees on some ships.

 

I want to be clear that these little differences between the lines are only important if they are important to you. I don't generally order steak and I don't eat lobster so I don't care. But I do think it is not a good trend for any cruise line to start charging extra for select dishes and specials in the MDR.

 

I have to run off now as I volunteer once a month to cook and serve dinner for families who need extra help beyond their work income and food stamp assistance. So I will respond to any further comments late tonight or tomorrow. I have begun to put together a chart that compares passenger/staff ratio, passenger/space ratios, cost expended per cabin to originally build subsequently maintain a refurbish a ship, and food budgets/expenditure per passenger.

[baldercash]

Thanks, you made me giggle.

Thank you that was my intent.

Having sailed MSC, Azamara, Oceania, Princess, Hal, NCL, P&O, RCL and Celebrity I have settled into a rhythm with RCL & X and the odd Princess now.

[baldercash]

As I stated earlier, we all value different things with greater or lesser intensity.

I will be glad to add some information in these categories in the days to come. And yes Celebrity has a fantastic passenger to crew ratio which is 2.1:1

 

I look forward to the information you supply, interested in square footage per passenger info. Years ago that information was readily available.

 

I was on a RCL cruise a few years ago at a meet the crew lunch. I mentioned that I thought that the food on RCL was comparable to to X. I was told in no uncertain terms by crew members at the table that RCL food was not up to X standards as they knew exactly how much X spent per passenger on food / ingredients and it was substantially more then RCL spent.

 

I was also informed that it was very rare that any staff or management from RCL would ever be transferred to an X ship as the way staff was trained and taught to interface with passengers was different.

This topic came up when I mentioned I had noticed the Captain joked and made comments in his PA address's which did not happen on X.

 

On our 1st cruise on Azamara my wife and I received welcomes and the occasional hug from a few staff on board who recognized us from our X sailings.

So I would extrapolate that X and Azamara staff are trained to meet similar passenger expectations of service and interaction.

[Oville]

Has I stated earlier, we all value different things with greater or lesser intensity. What may be included in a cruise and of great value to me may be of little or no value to you. That's why it is not at all a surprise that my comments may not jive with your experience. Principally for this reason, I have tried to keep my comments focused on industry-wide statistical data. For example one way to measure value is to compare the per diem price of a cruise. You mentioned that you don't understand the use pf per diem pricing. All that is the total price charged for your cabin divided by the length (3 of days) of the cruise. This allows comparison of all cruises, no matter their length.

 

There are many examples of extra charges on RCCL and NCL that are not charged on HAL or X. My list of examples below are based on lengthy discussion with close friends who cruise often on RCCL and Celebrity. My first hand knowledge is limited to my two RCCL cruises (never been on NCL) compared to my 6 HAL cruises (as I have only been on Celebrity once before). So here are some examples between RCCL and either HAL or X.

[*]Most ships have an every day menu in the MDR in addition to a changing daily menu. Everything on the everyday menu is offered at no extra charge. RCCL is now charging $19.95 in the MDR if you want a steak or lobster.False, NCL, RCI and Celebrity have everyday menus. Steak from specialty restaurants on RCI do cost extra in the MDR but there is an everyday steak

[*]In HAL's MDR (and I believe this is true for Celebrity) there is no extra charge for a special coffee like a cappuccino or mocha latte. RCCL charges for such a coffee. False, Celebrity charges for special coffee

[*]RCCL charges for fresh squeezed orange juice at breakfast, I never heard of such a thing on any line until someone told me that yesterday As does Celebrity

[*]On HAL all movies on command and DVD's from the library are offered free of charge. I am told NCL and RCL charge for newly released moviesAs does Celebrity

[*]On HAL every stateroom from inside to suite is offered the same room service menu. On X you have to purchase at least a Concierge grade cabin to get full room service. In fact you have to book a Concierge cabin to get the level of amenities that HAL puts into all its cabin, such as sparkling wine on departure, fresh fruit in the room, free shoe shines and better towels and linens. So in essence you are being extra'd when you take a concierge level cabin to receive what HAL includes in its standard cabin

 

Perhaps if you had cruised on Celebrity your statements would not be so inaccurate.

 

Re:cabin size, I have about 80 cruises under my belt mainly with Royal, Celebrity, NCL and a few on Princess. I know a thing or two about cabin size. I'm taking my first HAL cruise this Fall but am a bit apprehensive due to HAL's crumby smoking policy.

[tip]

We have cruised many cruise lines including Celebrity.

 

We love Celebrity for their "21st Century" smoking policy. On the other hand, Princess has a similar policy when it comes to balconies.

 

We found that the Caribe Deck on the Princess ships have very large balconies. They certainly are large enough to accomodate at least four people.

 

To us, that would make Princess a competitor to Celebrity.

[Denny01]

I am a little unclear. When you go on the Celebrity site and look at the description of the extra amenities that are provided to concierge class passengers, it lists Expanded room service menu. Logically that means that the room service menu provided in regular cabins is narrower in scope. Does anyone have menus to compare.

I'll look to see if I have a CC menu, but the special CC menu is only for breakfast. All other items you can get in any SR. there is no difference. For the CC breakfast, I do know you can get a special parfiett (sp?), and fresh-squeezed OJ that isn't avail in standard SR breakfast menus and is an extra charge at the buffet and MDR. Not that big of a difference really.

 

Others have reported they handwritten on their standard SR breakfast menu and got some of the extras CC listed.

 

So, again, its only for breakfast, you can order from the MDR dinner menu in any of the Celebrity SRs.

 

Den

[slp123]

Perhaps if you had cruised on Celebrity your statements would not be so inaccurate.

 

Re:cabin size, I have about 80 cruises under my belt mainly with Royal, Celebrity, NCL and a few on Princess. I know a thing or two about cabin size. I'm taking my first HAL cruise this Fall but am a bit apprehensive due to HAL's crumby smoking policy.

 

You are misquoting me. I never named any cruise line as not having an everyday menu. I just said that RCCL is charging for certain items such as steak and lobster in its main dining room and I thought that this was setting a bad precedent. I also said that I had not cruised often on Celebrity so my comparison was mostly between HAL and RCL. Please tell me what part of my statement about Celebrity you think, as the 80 cruises had you claiming greater knowledge. And please let me know when you were last on HAL so I can have a point of reference as I was speaking based on my two most recent HAL cruises in February and November of 2012.

[slp123]

I'll look to see if I have a CC menu, but the special CC menu is only for breakfast. All other items you can get in any SR. there is no difference. For the CC breakfast, I do know you can get a special parfiett (sp?), and fresh-squeezed OJ that isn't avail in standard SR breakfast menus and is an extra charge at the buffet and MDR. Not that big of a difference really.

 

Others have reported they handwritten on their standard SR breakfast menu and got some of the extras CC listed.

 

So, again, its only for breakfast, you can order from the MDR dinner menu in any of the Celebrity SRs.

 

Den

Thanks very much for the info and I am not worried as my breakfasts are fairly simple affairs, such as two eggs over easy or a bowl of cereal and always some fresh fruit and coffee.

[Oville]

You are misquoting me. I never named any cruise line as not having an everyday menu. I just said that RCCL is charging for certain items such as steak and lobster in its main dining room and I thought that this was setting a bad precedent. I also said that I had not cruised often on Celebrity so my comparison was mostly between HAL and RCL. Please tell me what part of my statement about Celebrity you think, as the 80 cruises had you claiming greater knowledge. And please let me know when you were last on HAL so I can have a point of reference as I was speaking based on my two most recent HAL cruises in February and November of 2012.

 

How could I have misquoted you when I included your post. Also, if you read my post above you would know my HAL experience.

[slp123]

As we compare cruise lines to see which are competitors, no matter how you come out of which line provides which amenities, it very much remains a matter of personal preference and that is why I am somewhat take aback about how nasty people become when you state a fact that might be contrary to their own preferences and conclusions. That is why throughout this thread I ave found that numerical facts and pricing history will show which lines most closely compete with Celebrity.

 

Let us remember that in the end you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. And in the following areas statistics are reported publicly by most cruise lines (especially those which are publicly held)

1. Guest to ship space ratio (this takes into account shared public space)
   
2. Average cabin size by type for each cruise line,
   
3. Guests to staff ratios (both standard and maximum loads)
   
4. average per cabin cost (that is how much the cruise line spent building the ship plus expenditures for refurbishing spread over the number of cabins on board)
   
5. Average per passenger per diem expenditure for food and beverages which are included with cabin cost
   

 

When I return later I will supply the information supplied by some of the lines. In doing so please remember that these are not my statistics but those gathered from the cruise lines by trade journals and consulting firms.

[slp123]

How could I have misquoted you when I included your post. Also, if you read my post above you would know my HAL experience.

 

Please stop playing games. You took my post, quoted it and then claimed within my quoted post that I had made certain statements which I had not. I never said that other lines lack everyday menus. Regarding movies on demand and DVD's I never said anything about their being a charge on HAL or Celebrity. You insert corrections in my posting when quoting it as if I had made statements to the contrary. Please remember I was not comparing HAL to Celebrity as to what was included but rather what was not included on RCL.

 

I don't mind being disagreed with but I do mind being misrepresented, and for what reason. You certainly can state a contrary opinion without having to claim that I have stated incorrect facts or made a faulty conclusion which I never stated.

[Oville]

Thank you that was my intent.

Having sailed MSC, Azamara, Oceania, Princess, Hal, NCL, P&O, RCL and Celebrity I have settled into a rhythm with RCL & X and the odd Princess now.

 

We have settled into X with a yearly cruise on the Oasis. For what ever reason, Princess just doesn't do it for us. We do an occasional NCL and will try HAL in November, but I am concerned about the smoking policy on that line.

[Oville]

We have cruised many cruise lines including Celebrity.

 

We love Celebrity for their "21st Century" smoking policy. On the other hand, Princess has a similar policy when it comes to balconies.

 

We found that the Caribe Deck on the Princess ships have very large balconies. They certainly are large enough to accomodate at least four people.

 

To us, that would make Princess a competitor to Celebrity.

 

Hi, just a quick question, is the Caribe deck the one that has no overhang on the balconies, the deck with the mini suites .

 

Thanks.

[slp123]

I found an article about cruise ship cabins which is not comprehensive but gives some interesting comparisons by cabin class across an assortment of cruise lines. The article is entitled Which and Where are the Best Cabins on a Cruise Ship

[tip]

Hi, just a quick question, is the Caribe deck the one that has no overhang on the balconies, the deck with the mini suites .

 

Thanks.

 

The Caribe deck, at least on the Emerald, was 50/50. That is half of the balcony was under cover and half was open. We found that these balconies were roughly twice the size as other decks. We had a regular cabin and not a mini-suite although there may have been mini suites on this deck.

[Oville]

The Caribe deck, at least on the Emerald, was 50/50. That is half of the balcony was under cover and half was open. We found that these balconies were roughly twice the size as other decks. We had a regular cabin and not a mini-suite although there may have been mini suites on this deck.

 

Thanks, we are interested in the new Royal so we'll check out the deck plans. Princess has some nice itineraries.

[baldercash]

I believe I have an inkling of where this thread is leading.

 

We will be inundated with statistical minutia which cannot be refuted because it is numerical data. It will be dry data gathered outside of the reality of being there.

What does that mean, well one can look at blue prints and square footage's but when you walk into the the space and are faced with the reality of the numbers you may have chosen poorly.

To judge a cruise based only on statistics is a flawed premise.

Yes having the biggest cabins, largest balconies, highest staff to guest ratio, most square footage per guest are indicators but in no way insures you will have a memorable cruise.

 

A cruise experience like most things in life that are good tend to be more then the sum of their physical parts.

Dissecting the best things in ones life usually tends to demean them.