Cunard Dress Code change: Formal and Informal

[seasidegal]

Class has nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how you treat and respect others. I have just finished reading a long series of reviews of Cunard ships and their cruises, and am sickened and appalled by what I have read. The cruise line appears to be walking around, nose in the air while" its .......is exposed for all to.... I have never seen such a great number of reviewers stating "NEVER AGAIN will I sail wih them".

 

The number of formal nights, of ladies loving to preen themselves, of those hiding for dinner in reserved dining rooms are just empty gestures - a kind of acknowledgement that faking class declares it's opposite - some people will do every thing to insist they are not serfs.

 

More surprising is that the same complaints occur every year. I don't know a successful person, business or company who don't constantly seek feedback, and all work hard at correcting and tuning. Most thank their criics. The unsuccessful ridicule, snub, get angry at,blame and make excuses and excuses. It sometimes takes a child to tell them they have no clothes on.

 

It hit me that Cunard, for all its self proclaimed superioriy, is totally classless and dying, and the rude waiters, office managers, baggage handlers, rotten food, disorganization, long lines at coffee pots, etc, etc, are all the results of a company that disrespects itself, its employees, and its customers. This isn't bad people, its a culture. Hiding behind tea with stale sandwiches, lawn bowling balls and an insistance upon bow ties and tails at every nights dinner won't save it. Class is not what you wear, it's how you show dignity in the ways you treat your self, and how you treat others.

 

I have travelled a lot and cruised a lot and know that most of the complaints I read of never had to be, and certainly should never have been ignored or gone uncorrected. and I can only conclude that this must have its core in a classless management. Eventually the market will correct that.

 

Mean while, I don't need the abuse i read of and won't sail with Cunard.

 

 

Bob

 

Bob:

 

I'm sorry you felt you needed to come to this forum and write such a vile sentence as your third line. You disrespected those who post here, and, sadly, whether you realize it or not-yourself.

 

Most important, and what matters most to me, is this:

 

It hit me that Cunard, for all its self proclaimed superioriy, is totally classless and dying, and the rude waiters, office managers, baggage handlers, rotten food, disorganization, long lines at coffee pots, etc, etc

 

You have stated an opinion on those that work so hard and long hours on a ship you have never and say you will never board.

 

My mind went to the faces of the crew that I just was priviledged to sail with twice in the last month and a bit. I see how tired they can get but the one thing I never withnessed was that tiredness reflected in anything but a smile and a pleasant greeting to me. I never had a waiter who was rude, I did, however, have waiters that did their very best to provide us with a wonderful experience and made us feel valued as customers of Cunard.

 

I saw the 'baggage handlers' lifting very heavy bags on embarkment and disembarkment, and doing their very best to stay out of the way of passengers going to their cabins, and always did so with a pleasant attitude.

 

From my cabin steward (bless her hard working heart) to the purser's desk, to the crew who endlessly is cleaning the ship, to the kitchen staff we came in contact with and each and every Cunard employee that we had personal dealings with-not one of them-was rude, disrepectful or short or ill-tempered with us.

 

When you come and write on this forum and judge the crew by the words that others have written, you disrespect their hard work, their ability even when treated rudely by some passengers to put a smile on their face and continue serving with class.

 

I have no idea what prompted you to write as you did, of course, it is your right to do so but I truly hope that no one disrespects your work ethic, your wife or children, the way you have just disrespected the crew of Cunard on the 'say so' of others you don't even know.

 

I have no idea how you treat those around you off the board but I would hope it is not with the same off-putting vileness that your felt you needed to bring to this forum with your third sentence.

 

To the Cunard Crew on board the QM2 and QE...thank you for your hard work, your pleasant greetings, your desire shown to my husband and I to make our sailings so special, each of your smiles, your greetings was so appreciated! As I look back now, and picture each of your faces, it is those smiles that come to mind, I cannot imagine how you work so hard and still manage those beautiful smiles. Thank you!

 

"Class has nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how you treat and respect others."

 

Yes it does. Cunard Crews are Classy-some people that post on forums not so much.

 

 

seasidegal.

[pepperrn]

Bob: I'm sorry you felt you needed to come to this forum and write such a vile sentence as your third line. You disrespected those who post here, and, sadly, whether you realize it or not-yourself. Most important, and what matters most to me, is this: It hit me that Cunard, for all its self proclaimed superioriy, is totally classless and dying, and the rude waiters, office managers, baggage handlers, rotten food, disorganization, long lines at coffee pots, etc, etc You have stated an opinion on those that work so hard and long hours on a ship you have never and say you will never board. My mind went to the faces of the crew that I just was priviledged to sail with twice in the last month and a bit. I see how tired they can get but the one thing I never withnessed was that tiredness reflected in anything but a smile and a pleasant greeting to me. I never had a waiter who was rude, I did, however, have waiters that did their very best to provide us with a wonderful experience and made us feel valued as customers of Cunard. I saw the 'baggage handlers' lifting very heavy bags on embarkment and disembarkment, and doing their very best to stay out of the way of passengers going to their cabins, and always did so with a pleasant attitude. From my cabin steward (bless her hard working heart) to the purser's desk, to the crew who endlessly is cleaning the ship, to the kitchen staff we came in contact with and each and every Cunard employee that we had personal dealings with-not one of them-was rude, disrepectful or short or ill-tempered with us. When you come and write on this forum and judge the crew by the words that others have written, you disrespect their hard work, their ability even when treated rudely by some passengers to put a smile on their face and continue serving with class. I have no idea what prompted you to write as you did, of course, it is your right to do so but I truly hope that no one disrespects your work ethic, your wife or children, the way you have just disrespected the crew of Cunard on the 'say so' of others you don't even know. I have no idea how you treat those around you off the board but I would hope it is not with the same off-putting vileness that your felt you needed to bring to this forum with your third sentence. To the Cunard Crew on board the QM2 and QE...thank you for your hard work, your pleasant greetings, your desire shown to my husband and I to make our sailings so special, each of your smiles, your greetings was so appreciated! As I look back now, and picture each of your faces, it is those smiles that come to mind, I cannot imagine how you work so hard and still manage those beautiful smiles. Thank you! "Class has nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how you treat and respect others." Yes it does. Cunard Crews are Classy-some people that post on forums not so much. seasidegal.

VERY well said :) .

 

Thank you.

[Camgirl]

Very well said, seasidegal!

 

The crew on board the Cunard ships work so hard to make every cruise special. It makes me so sad to read such unpleasant comments written about them. That it is written by someone who has never been on a Cunard ship makes me angry.

 

I can't wait to be back on board QV in two weeks. I know I will have a very special time, made all the more special by the hard working, always smiling, crew.

[pepperrn]

The crew on board the Cunard ships work so hard to make every cruise special... I can't wait to be back on board QV in two weeks. I know I will have a very special time, made all the more special by the hard working, always smiling, crew.

Hi Camgirl,

I agree :) , thank you for posting :) .

[keithm]

Class has nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how you treat and respect others. I have just finished reading a long series of reviews of Cunard ships and their cruises, and am sickened and appalled by what I have read. The cruise line appears to be walking around, nose in the air while its unwiped bare arse is exposed for all to witness and smell. I have never seen such a great number of reviewers stating "NEVER AGAIN will I sail wih them".

 

The number of formal nights, of ladies loving to preen themselves, of those hiding for dinner in reserved dining rooms are just empty gestures - a kind of acknowledgement that faking class declares it's opposite - some people will do every thing to insist they are not serfs.

 

More surprising is that the same complaints occur every year. I don't know a successful person, business or company who don't constantly seek feedback, and all work hard at correcting and tuning. Most thank their criics. The unsuccessful ridicule, snub, get angry at,blame and make excuses and excuses. It sometimes takes a child to tell them they have no clothes on.

 

It hit me that Cunard, for all its self proclaimed superioriy, is totally classless and dying, and the rude waiters, office managers, baggage handlers, rotten food, disorganization, long lines at coffee pots, etc, etc, are all the results of a company that disrespects itself, its employees, and its customers. This isn't bad people, its a culture. Hiding behind tea with stale sandwiches, lawn bowling balls and an insistance upon bow ties and tails at every nights dinner won't save it. Class is not what you wear, it's how you show dignity in the ways you treat your self, and how you treat others.

 

I have travelled a lot and cruised a lot and know that most of the complaints I read of never had to be, and certainly should never have been ignored or gone uncorrected. and I can only conclude that this must have its core in a classless management. Eventually the market will correct that.

 

Mean while, I don't need the abuse i read of and won't sail with Cunard.

 

Wear what you want and have fun. "It's the people in front who get the jar."

 

Bob

Have you even sailed on Cunard, or are you just a whiner who loves causing trouble? I think the latter. I'd hate to be anywhere near you on ANY cruise ship.As to the jar..when you put your hand in,well, I hope it's full of everything you so deserve!

[Whitemarsh]

partial quote

 

Mean while, I don't need the abuse i read of and won't sail with Cunard.

 

Bob

 

So it's not all bad news then!:D

 

Every cloud.... :D

 

Reading through Bob's post I was increasingly alarmed that he was about to announce a future booking. Happily for all concerned we have assurances in writing that such an event will never take place.

[RSCBC]

Hi Bob. Thanks for your advice.

 

I agree with your statement that "Class has nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how you treat and respect others."

 

By your own definition, the lack of respect you have shown to the crew and passengers of the Cunard Line has illustrated your 'class' - or lack thereof.

 

Best wishes on your next non-Cunard voyage.

 

Salacia

 

On second or third thought, you are probably right. I was reacting to what I thought was an inordinately large number of reviews on the

QE where the reviewers said never again and to reviewers who really liked the ship despite what I would have considered intolerable incidents or conditions.

People complain, I know this, and I always try to get hold on who the reviewer is and where he or she might be coming from. I also do the same with favorable reviews. Its a called weighing the evidence. When I see a complain repeated by many different people over a period of time, then I pay attention.

 

We travel alot and have 99.9 percent of the time had wonderful relationships with the people who have served us and the people we have met while travelling. There have been disasters (sometimes of our own making) but luckily maybe we have come out of them with great respect and affection. My first ocean crossings were on Ocean Liners and our belongs went with us in Steamer trunks. I also remember the class system but none of the people who travelled below us on the ship, getting more because you paid more is not a problem for me. Thinking that makes me better than some on else, does.

 

When I read the stuff on line about the QE -even in the initial review - there were items in there that made me pause. Some of the problems were not correctable but many of them were (like changing the shower heads in the small bathrooms to handhelds). That there seemed to be no response to these issues, and from subsequent reviews, no correction said a lot.

 

There was a long article in today's newspaper about 'responsibility' and how the effects of taking it and clearing up a mess differ significantly from avoiding it (there are a milllion ways to do this), The article was referring to our government by a writer who is normally quite supportive of it. His point was that where a kind of behavior is systemic that the behavior almost always stems from the leadership both in how it in itself acts and in the permission, even if not explicit, and model that the leadership sets.

Of course, this is not news.

 

there is a principle - in economics it is an axiom and has a title which I forget - and in life it is one of those things that it is. Organizations and people for that matter will sometimes cling ferocioulsy to behaviors and practices that are definitely not working, and have a tendency if things are going badly to keeping reinvesting in and strengthing the behaviour that is causing the trouble. Simplistically, kicking a damaged television harder, instead of diagnosing the problem, fixing it - ie getting rid of the dysfunctional behavior. Economists point out that successful companies are very quick at stopping what's not working, cutting their losses and getting on with it. Unsuccess ful companies will persist with what has not been working often throwing great sums and and energy into what they are doing, sometimes to the point of absurdity. Change only come's (should the market place not take its toll) when a new executive management is replaces the one that that initiated or supported the failing one.

 

My perception, or guess (and I know little about Cunard) is the cruiseline was in trouble, and from the complaints that I saw, the problems were systemic and mostly likely came from issues within the companies management.

 

But you are right. I was rude to say anything, that was classless. So here I am, ignoring what I know, and saying more.

 

We were in the process of making the final payment on a Cunard Cruise, and were getting excited, when a friend asked had we read the reviews.

As I said we were shocked.

 

We also talked about continuing anyway - I told you our experience with cruises, people, travelling etc., is very positive, and then my wife said "It's more fun to be on a cruise and expecting all to be wonderful than to discover after being forwarned that its not. We're travelling a long way and spending lots to do it. Why take a that risk.

 

I remembered the economic axiom. Sometimes the best choice is to say no, so I did, and cancelled our reservation yesterday.

 

Happy cruising, travelling, living to you, and thanks for what you said.

 

Bob

[RSCBC]

".As to the jar..when you put your hand in,well, I hope it's full of everything you so deserve!"

 

there's an old limerick

 

"my face I don't mind it, for I am behind it - tis the peopla and front get the jar"

 

kicking my self in the ankles I was...I should remember irony doesn't read well.

 

rejecting or disagreeing with what I say is ok. we all do that. once in a while (though I am loath to believe it) you may be right.

 

rejecting "me" is another matter...kinda puts you put with one foot in the same "jar" you think I'm in. I'll make room. I don't know if I deserve pleasant company but I like it. I do "so deserve" respect and so do you.

 

Meanwhile, i don't think anyone was more bothered by cancelling a trip with Cunard than I was, but I can live with that and get on with it.

 

Thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

[RSCBC]

Bob:

 

I'm sorry you felt you needed to come to this forum and write such a vile sentence as your third line. You disrespected those who post here, and, sadly, whether you realize it or not-yourself.

 

Most important, and what matters most to me, is this:

 

It hit me that Cunard, for all its self proclaimed superioriy, is totally classless and dying, and the rude waiters, office managers, baggage handlers, rotten food, disorganization, long lines at coffee pots, etc, etc

 

You have stated an opinion on those that work so hard and long hours on a ship you have never and say you will never board.

 

My mind went to the faces of the crew that I just was priviledged to sail with twice in the last month and a bit. I see how tired they can get but the one thing I never withnessed was that tiredness reflected in anything but a smile and a pleasant greeting to me. I never had a waiter who was rude, I did, however, have waiters that did their very best to provide us with a wonderful experience and made us feel valued as customers of Cunard.

 

I saw the 'baggage handlers' lifting very heavy bags on embarkment and disembarkment, and doing their very best to stay out of the way of passengers going to their cabins, and always did so with a pleasant attitude.

 

From my cabin steward (bless her hard working heart) to the purser's desk, to the crew who endlessly is cleaning the ship, to the kitchen staff we came in contact with and each and every Cunard employee that we had personal dealings with-not one of them-was rude, disrepectful or short or ill-tempered with us.

 

When you come and write on this forum and judge the crew by the words that others have written, you disrespect their hard work, their ability even when treated rudely by some passengers to put a smile on their face and continue serving with class.

 

I have no idea what prompted you to write as you did, of course, it is your right to do so but I truly hope that no one disrespects your work ethic, your wife or children, the way you have just disrespected the crew of Cunard on the 'say so' of others you don't even know.

 

I have no idea how you treat those around you off the board but I would hope it is not with the same off-putting vileness that your felt you needed to bring to this forum with your third sentence.

 

To the Cunard Crew on board the QM2 and QE...thank you for your hard work, your pleasant greetings, your desire shown to my husband and I to make our sailings so special, each of your smiles, your greetings was so appreciated! As I look back now, and picture each of your faces, it is those smiles that come to mind, I cannot imagine how you work so hard and still manage those beautiful smiles. Thank you!

 

"Class has nothing to do with clothing and everything to do with how you treat and respect others."

 

Yes it does. Cunard Crews are Classy-some people that post on forums not so much.

 

 

seasidegal.

 

I read what you said carefully and thank you for saying it.

 

Prior to writing, I had just made a decision to cancel a trip with Cunard. The decision I made to cancel was based on the number of negative reviews (and negative comments) that I read about sailings on the QE and on the number of "Never Again" statements reviewers made. You are correct, that Cunard would have been new to us, and part of our decision to sail on it was based on Cunard's reputation. The tone and nature in the negative reviews was a complete shock to us as was the number of them.

 

I read all reviews, including and espescially the glowing ones because I wanted to believe that the negative ones were exceptions and that the issues that the ship might have been responsible for were acknowledged and corrected. Sometimes people will write in saying "this is what went wrong -and how it was corrected." I saw very little of that. I also tried to determine where the reviewer was coming from, did cabin class etc., make any difference to what was said. It seemed to, those in the upper bunks, as far as I could tell, didn't complain and many had several sailings with Cunard.

 

I perhaps should have prefaced my comments, "from my perceptions of all that I had read ... and if this is so...". Vanity and the pleasure of a well turned phrase won in any case, and I am paying for that.

 

Yet, what I said, is also true. Ships, offices, companies, and even football teams have a "culture", and that culture always reflects top management no list of rules changes that and there are commonalities to those that are repeatedy successful. What I read in your comment was of hard working people, considerate people. What I read in the criticisms was that there were some who were not and that there were enough of them that there were probably systematic issues. That may be a wrong conclusion. I am quite capable of making wrong conclusions. And i can say wrong things while making them (and be good at it).

 

I too am aware of the extensive efforts and courtesies that cruiseline crews and staff makes. People working with people do. No insults were intended. Had we read comments like you made before we made our decision they would have made a big difference . We say the same as you about every cruise we've made and have close relatives both on the bridge and in the hotel staffs. We know the kind of people they are and how they extend themselves. We also know how management affects things.

 

The decision to cancel was a very hard one to make and we were quite looking forward to the trip and enjoying it. Without the anxieties the reviewers raised, we would have come on board anticipating all the pleasures and services that Cunard offered. We have travelled extensively since the sixties, individually and in large and small groups and to a whole world of venues. I think we are good travellers and have a world full of friends to attest to that, but that doesn't mean that if a road sign says "flooded and bridge washed out", that we travel on it. On every other cruise, we have chosen flexible dining, and on every other cruise our dinner table grows more and more crowded. there always seems to be a collection who ask to join with us the next evening, and we don't even pay for their drinks.

 

Anyway, I read your comments carefully, and shoulder the umbrage.

 

The road is still winding and worth walking on.

[MadScientist_01]

Fair play to you, Bob, for returning and explaining your thoughts - I withdraw my 'troll' comment!

 

Reviews are always funny old things - I've been to numerous places (not just on Cunard ships but others as well, hotels etc.) and never written a review - far too lazy! But that means that my wonderful (and not so wonderful) experiences are never passed on. It is also well-documented that negative issues are more likely to lead to people writing on-line about them.

 

I always think negative reviews are likely to fall into one of the following three categories:

1. Written by people who would find fault with Nirvana - some people are just never satisfied.

2. People who do have a legitimate complaint - nothing is consistently wonderful, things happen and they are not always dealt with to the customer's satisfaction.

3. People who are expecting one thing and get another - sometimes because of expectations, at other times because they haven't done their research.

 

This third category is an awkward one - the company raises expectations (all companies do it) and Cunard likes to portray a sophisticated experience - people's ideas of what that means can be very subjective, and I think a lot of negativity arises out of that. At other times people don't realise what they are getting into (dressing up for formal nights? Some people act quite shocked at that; the Grill lounge being reserved for passengers travelling in suites - no different to what many cruise lines are doing now but it seems to produce resentment for some as soon as Cunard's name is mentioned).

 

The problem is... I can rarely tell the difference between these categories when reading reviews - was the food really 'the worst they have ever eaten' or had they created an expectation that every mouthful was going to be divine - and then the merely good became a disappointment in their eyes? It is why I take no notice of them (the good or the bad) - it is about their trip, not mine and the experience can and will be completely different.

 

From what I have read of your writing over the last page I personally think that you and your wife would enjoy a voyage on a Cunard ship - I know I do and the best endorsement I can give is not a review - it is simply that my next voyage is on a Cunard ship.

[keithm]

".As to the jar..when you put your hand in,well, I hope it's full of everything you so deserve!"

 

there's an old limerick

 

"my face I don't mind it, for I am behind it - tis the peopla and front get the jar"

 

kicking my self in the ankles I was...I should remember irony doesn't read well.

 

rejecting or disagreeing with what I say is ok. we all do that. once in a while (though I am loath to believe it) you may be right.

 

rejecting "me" is another matter...kinda puts you put with one foot in the same "jar" you think I'm in. I'll make room. I don't know if I deserve pleasant company but I like it. I do "so deserve" respect and so do you.

 

Meanwhile, i don't think anyone was more bothered by cancelling a trip with Cunard than I was, but I can live with that and get on with it.

 

Thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

What cruiselines have you travelled on? Cunard is rather formal, but you should still give it a shot. It's true that there is some dumbing down on the quality. This is the Carnival bean counters at work. Then again, ALL the cruiselines seem to be doing this. On cunard the Grills are the way to go.. similer to Seaborne/Crystal/Regent. The standard Britannia level is similer to Celebrity/HAL.

[seasidegal]

Fair play to you, Bob, for returning and explaining your thoughts - I withdraw my 'troll' comment!

 

Reviews are always funny old things - I've been to numerous places (not just on Cunard ships but others as well, hotels etc.) and never written a review - far too lazy! But that means that my wonderful (and not so wonderful) experiences are never passed on. It is also well-documented that negative issues are more likely to lead to people writing on-line about them.

 

I always think negative reviews are likely to fall into one of the following three categories:

1. Written by people who would find fault with Nirvana - some people are just never satisfied.

2. People who do have a legitimate complaint - nothing is consistently wonderful, things happen and they are not always dealt with to the customer's satisfaction.

3. People who are expecting one thing and get another - sometimes because of expectations, at other times because they haven't done their research.

 

This third category is an awkward one - the company raises expectations (all companies do it) and Cunard likes to portray a sophisticated experience - people's ideas of what that means can be very subjective, and I think a lot of negativity arises out of that. At other times people don't realise what they are getting into (dressing up for formal nights? Some people act quite shocked at that; the Grill lounge being reserved for passengers travelling in suites - no different to what many cruise lines are doing now but it seems to produce resentment for some as soon as Cunard's name is mentioned).

 

The problem is... I can rarely tell the difference between these categories when reading reviews - was the food really 'the worst they have ever eaten' or had they created an expectation that every mouthful was going to be divine - and then the merely good became a disappointment in their eyes? It is why I take no notice of them (the good or the bad) - it is about their trip, not mine and the experience can and will be completely different.

 

From what I have read of your writing over the last page I personally think that you and your wife would enjoy a voyage on a Cunard ship - I know I do and the best endorsement I can give is not a review - it is simply that my next voyage is on a Cunard ship.

 

Excellent post. Especially the last line.

 

best regards,

seasidegal

[Pushka]

My last cruise was on the RCL Liberty of the Seas - a beautiful ship with excellent facilities, and the Buffet in the Windjammer was fantastic and not even comparable to the sad offerings on Kings Court on QM2. We were booked on a Princess Cruise and had to cancel.

 

But I still find myself being drawn to the QM2 (or make that Cunard in general).

 

It's hard to isolate why, but I see the Cunard offerings as being completely different to those of the populist lines. I know my partner would not like Cunard much at all. But I just keep drifitng on back for solo travels.

 

So I think if the "wrong" person sailed on the Cunard lines they would not enjoy the experience much at all, and would say, "never again".

 

Me? I just like boats. :p Any kind. Except the original Oriana of the '80's.

[seasidegal]

I read what you said carefully and thank you for saying it.

 

Prior to writing, I had just made a decision to cancel a trip with Cunard. The decision I made to cancel was based on the number of negative reviews (and negative comments) that I read about sailings on the QE and on the number of "Never Again" statements reviewers made. You are correct, that Cunard would have been new to us, and part of our decision to sail on it was based on Cunard's reputation. The tone and nature in the negative reviews was a complete shock to us as was the number of them.

 

I read all reviews, including and espescially the glowing ones because I wanted to believe that the negative ones were exceptions and that the issues that the ship might have been responsible for were acknowledged and corrected. Sometimes people will write in saying "this is what went wrong -and how it was corrected." I saw very little of that. I also tried to determine where the reviewer was coming from, did cabin class etc., make any difference to what was said. It seemed to, those in the upper bunks, as far as I could tell, didn't complain and many had several sailings with Cunard.

 

I perhaps should have prefaced my comments, "from my perceptions of all that I had read ... and if this is so...". Vanity and the pleasure of a well turned phrase won in any case, and I am paying for that.

 

Yet, what I said, is also true. Ships, offices, companies, and even football teams have a "culture", and that culture always reflects top management no list of rules changes that and there are commonalities to those that are repeatedy successful. What I read in your comment was of hard working people, considerate people. What I read in the criticisms was that there were some who were not and that there were enough of them that there were probably systematic issues. That may be a wrong conclusion. I am quite capable of making wrong conclusions. And i can say wrong things while making them (and be good at it).

 

I too am aware of the extensive efforts and courtesies that cruiseline crews and staff makes. People working with people do. No insults were intended. Had we read comments like you made before we made our decision they would have made a big difference . We say the same as you about every cruise we've made and have close relatives both on the bridge and in the hotel staffs. We know the kind of people they are and how they extend themselves. We also know how management affects things.

 

The decision to cancel was a very hard one to make and we were quite looking forward to the trip and enjoying it. Without the anxieties the reviewers raised, we would have come on board anticipating all the pleasures and services that Cunard offered. We have travelled extensively since the sixties, individually and in large and small groups and to a whole world of venues. I think we are good travellers and have a world full of friends to attest to that, but that doesn't mean that if a road sign says "flooded and bridge washed out", that we travel on it. On every other cruise, we have chosen flexible dining, and on every other cruise our dinner table grows more and more crowded. there always seems to be a collection who ask to join with us the next evening, and we don't even pay for their drinks.

 

Anyway, I read your comments carefully, and shoulder the umbrage.

 

The road is still winding and worth walking on.

 

Bob,

 

Thank you for coming back and explaining your upset, but I still do not understand how coming on the forum with that third sentence, the 'jar' comment, etc. and demeaning the members who post on this forum was going to solve any upset (that came from reading bad reviews) that you have with Cunard the management. You seem to be a man who likes to read reports on how to deal with problems and how they should be solved but when it came to the crunch you reacted totally opposite.

 

 

Re: The Queen Elizabeth. I found the exact opposite of what the bad reviews you said stated. How this is possible I do not know but I found

a lovely ship, well maintained and a crew who from the first step into the terminal was welcoming, helpful and with a smile.

 

A few instances:

 

Donald who welcomed us to the terminal with a big smile and interest in our sailing and started our journey off on the 'perfect foot'. He was a joy.

 

The lady who checked us in with a smile and after finishing asked if there was anything else she could do for us and in ten minutes had us on our way to start enjoying the ship.

 

 

The Librarian noticing that I was having a problem with my computer offered her help to fix it after her shift was over and on her own time. (this was not an internet issue or any responsibility of Cunard or it's crew). Her concern was geniune and much appreciated.

 

The lady working in the bookstore who when I inquired how to get to a certain location, not only explained but stepped out of the store to make

sure I was headed in the right direction and wouldn't miss the class I was trying find. She was also extremely helpful in picking books out for gifts, listening to how I described the people I was buying for and lending her knowledge..with a smile.

 

Patrick in The Lido who always asked with a smile how i liked my eggs and did them perfectly and wished me a good day.

 

The cleaners who would look up and say "hello" and smile. No matter if scrubbing a floor or wiping a wall.

 

The Purser's Desk who greeted us with a smile and a helping hand and patience. The best Purser's Desk we have experience in any sailing.

 

The Head waiter who visited our table on the first night due to a diet restriction I had informed the ship I had. He went over a menu with me and told me if I had any concerns just to let him know. He continued to check with us throughout the sailing that things were right and did so with a smile.

 

The Chef-he greeted people with a smile, he just made my day brighter looking at his happy face when he was rushing about the ship. He and his crew produced some of the best food we have had on any ship.

 

There are many other instances...of a helpful friendly crew.

 

Yes, the shower is small. Some ships are larger some smaller but the bathroom was always spotless as was the cabin.

 

What The QE does have...an amazing Library (not a 'wanta-be' library like other cruiseships)...the wonderful Cafe' Carinthia with it's delicious Latte's and well laid out seating with sea views...the beautiful Royal Court Theatre...Afternoon Tea (not a stale sandwich did we have but stellar service we did) in the Queen's Room accompanied by lovely music...the Winter Garden with it's spectacular glass roof and places to sit and read or play games...The Lido with a great salad/fruit bar and a nice place to join new friends made on the ship..and so much more.

 

A shame to have missed all that...

 

best regards,

seasidegal

 

Pushka: "My last cruise was on the RCL Liberty of the Seas - a beautiful ship with excellent facilities, and the Buffet in the Windjammer was fantastic.."

 

I agree, the Liberty is a wonderful ship and the Windjammer has great selections and usually is very good...my children and grandchildren love RCCL ships because there is so much for them to do while on board.

 

"So I think if the "wrong" person sailed on the Cunard lines they would not enjoy the experience much at all, and would say, "never again"."

 

I agree. ;)

[pepperrn]

Bob, Thank you for coming back and explaining your upset, but I still do not understand how coming on the forum with that third sentence, the 'jar' comment, etc. and demeaning the members who post on this forum was going to solve any upset (that came from reading bad reviews) that you have with Cunard the management. You seem to be a man who likes to read reports on how to deal with problems and how they should be solved but when it came to the crunch you reacted totally opposite. Re: The Queen Elizabeth. I found the exact opposite of what the bad reviews you said stated. How this is possible I do not know but I found a lovely ship, well maintained and a crew who from the first step into the terminal was welcoming, helpful and with a smile. A few instances: Donald who welcomed us to the terminal with a big smile and interest in our sailing and started our journey off on the 'perfect foot'. He was a joy. The lady who checked us in with a smile and after finishing asked if there was anything else she could do for us and in ten minutes had us on our way to start enjoying the ship. The Librarian noticing that I was having a problem with my computer offered her help to fix it after her shift was over and on her own time. (this was not an internet issue or any responsibility of Cunard or it's crew). Her concern was geniune and much appreciated. The lady working in the bookstore who when I inquired how to get to a certain location, not only explained but stepped out of the store to make sure I was headed in the right direction and wouldn't miss the class I was trying find. She was also extremely helpful in picking books out for gifts, listening to how I described the people I was buying for and lending her knowledge..with a smile. Patrick in The Lido who always asked with a smile how i liked my eggs and did them perfectly and wished me a good day. The cleaners who would look up and say "hello" and smile. No matter if scrubbing a floor or wiping a wall. The Purser's Desk who greeted us with a smile and a helping hand and patience. The best Purser's Desk we have experience in any sailing. The Head waiter who visited our table on the first night due to a diet restriction I had informed the ship I had. He went over a menu with me and told me if I had any concerns just to let him know. He continued to check with us throughout the sailing that things were right and did so with a smile. The Chef-he greeted people with a smile, he just made my day brighter looking at his happy face when he was rushing about the ship. He and his crew produced some of the best food we have had on any ship. There are many other instances...of a helpful friendly crew. Yes, the shower is small. Some ships are larger some smaller but the bathroom was always spotless as was the cabin. What The QE does have...an amazing Library (not a 'wanta-be' library like other cruiseships)...the wonderful Cafe' Carinthia with it's delicious Latte's and well laid out seating with sea views...the beautiful Royal Court Theatre...Afternoon Tea (not a stale sandwich did we have but stellar service we did) in the Queen's Room accompanied by lovely music...the Winter Garden with it's spectacular glass roof and places to sit and read or play games...The Lido with a great salad/fruit bar and a nice place to join new friends made on the ship..and so much more. A shame to have missed all that... best regards, seasidegal

Hi seasidegal,

What a wonderful, thoughtful, well-written post. Thanks to you I've started the day with a smile on my face :) .

Thank you :) .

[glojo]

I am someone that has never cruised before and me being me I am guilty of researching anything I intend doing.

 

My experiences so far of this research is usually....

 

Woe betide anyone that dares to write a negative review or speak out about the cruise line!

 

We are all different and possibly have different expectations of what to expect. I get a small degree of criticism when I talk about stability but I wonder if I have spent more time on one wave than those that criticise me have spent on uninterrupted days at sea! :)

 

we have folks that might not give out praise if staff simply carry out the task they are paid to do but these people very kindly talk about their bad experiences. By crikey they get abuse for this type of writing. We have folks that might have higher standards of acceptable behaviour than others and again they get abuse for their honesty and the standards they have.

 

I tend to believe this is not a perfect World and no one is infallible,mistakes will be made and accidents will happen. To me it is how we deal with these expediences and how we treat the messengers of bad experiences.

 

If folks write about bad service then why not ask what the problem was and listen to the answer? I ask this because the usual response is to shoot or abuse the messenger... Miserable, snob, awkward, too fussy etc etc is the usual response and to me that tells me more about the accuser than it does the messenger. This type of response is more like bullying and again my personal thoughts are it is plain wrong to be so abusive. Challenge the complainant but why not do it in a polite manner showing the type of respect we ourselves expect?

 

I am here because having read hundreds or more likely thousands of reviews, I ended up believing Cunard offer me the best value for money and the type of holiday I believe I will enjoy. If things go wrong I might complain about them on public forums, but before that I would complain to management aboard the ship and hopefully get a response to my observations. I am hoping I have an enjoyable cruise and I can assure folks if that is the case I will most certainly talk about them but if things go wrong then should the bad experiences be talked about?

 

Finally my experience is that if I log onto a P&O site and someone dares to complain about the service, they get treated in the exact same abusive way. If someone logs onto any other site that favours a certain cruise company and the author talks about bad service... They risk the chance of being humiliated. WHY? why shoot the messenger?

 

Ooops... Last 'finally'

Is it also sadly possible for folks that might have a grudge or dislike of a cruise company to write a fictitious bad review slagging off the company for no valid reason whatsoever? :o:o If the answer is yes then surely we can politely challenge the author?

 

Live and let live and let's respect those that are simply the 'messenger' writing about their own personal bad experience.

 

Best wishes to one and all and if someone cancels a cruise because of a few bad reviews then I wish them well but let's not be abusive to folks we have never met, do not know and have no idea of the type of character they are. :):)

 

Regards

John

[Pennbank]

glojo

I could not agree with you more, however I could not help but notice that you have posted on this cruise critic site 1151 times since March 2011 and yet you state that you have never cruised before. That is researching.

Well may I just say you must do it and RMS Queen Mary 2 in my opinion would be the Liner to try.

[Wordzz]

Finally my experience is that if I log onto a P&O site and someone dares to complain about the service, they get treated in the exact same abusive way.

 

I too have read the P&O boards from time to time, and I find the tone very different from the Cunard board, which by and large I find to be a much more pleasant forum. And as for being treated in 'the exact same abusive way', well I was actually struck by the fact that the replies to the post in question were, with one slightly unfortunate exception, overwhelmingly polite and courteous, as exemplified by seasidegal's responses. The only person who was abusive was rorsc.

 

Live and let live and let's respect those that are simply the 'messenger' writing about their own personal bad experience.

 

I agree absolutely. However, I think the point was that rorsc wasn't writing about his own personal experience, but was basing his somewhat vivid opinion on the subjective experiences of other people - presumably people he does not know - rather than his own.

[glojo]

glojo

I could not agree with you more, however I could not help but notice that you have posted on this cruise critic site 1151 times since March 2011 and yet you state that you have never cruised before. That is researching.

Well may I just say you must do it and RMS Queen Mary 2 in my opinion would be the Liner to try.

Hopefully my posts are queries or humorous observations.

 

Quick question

If I am unable to drive a car but take long trips on a coach, does that make me an expert driver? Would a truck driver who has never travelled on a coach know a little about the road handling capabilities of that type of vehicle? :o:o

 

I love asking lots of question about cruising and this site is by frar the most helpful friendly location. :)

[Pennbank]

Hopefully my posts are queries or humorous observations.

 

Quick question

If I am unable to drive a car but take long trips on a coach, does that make me an expert driver? Would a truck driver who has never travelled on a coach know a little about the road handling capabilities of that type of vehicle? :o:o

 

I love asking lots of question about cruising and this site is by frar the most helpful friendly location. :)

 

I hope you enjoy your first cruise from Southampton on Queen Elizabeth starting 10th January 2014. Going the whole hog or just doing a segment ? No wonder you are doing a lot of researching. Thats one mighty leap having never cruised before.

I personally though do prefer the QM2 to the Vista class vessels.

Enjoy .

[pepperrn]

I personally though do prefer the QM2 to the Vista class vessels.

Hi, Pennbank,

I was very impressed with the Queen Elizabeth, but like you and many of my friends (and me! :) ), who have experience of both ships, MUCH prefer her big sister: the unique Queen Mary 2 :) .

[glojo]

I hope you enjoy your first cruise from Southampton on Queen Elizabeth starting 10th January 2014. Going the whole hog or just doing a segment ? No wonder you are doing a lot of researching. Thats one mighty leap having never cruised before.

I personally though do prefer the QM2 to the Vista class vessels.

Enjoy .

We are indeed taking the plunge and doing the whole voyage (in for a penny, in for a pound)

 

It is so nice that we all have our individual favourites and I guess I would have another thousand questions regarding the Queen Mary 2 :o

 

My experience of large ships is that the bigger they are the more restrictive the choices become regarding ports they can visit and yes I also include the Vista class cruise ships as being on the large side :) (not as large as some of these HUGE floating islands) but this is about dress codes and perhaps we are waaaay off topioc.

 

Please do not think I am defending rorsc for that first post of his as my very own personal thoughts are that he was out of order regarding his choice of words.

 

If I read bad reviews I research what the complaints were about and if I cannot find the answer, I will start a new thread and ask a question that might help me decide on the validity of any criticisms. The bad reviews are sometimes more informative than the good ones but only sometimes ;)

 

Going back to the P&O issue I raised.

 

I read a thread where someone very constructively criticised a World cruise they had taken with that company. The review was quite detailed,nwell written and raised a number of very specific issues.

 

What really stood out to me was that the loudest complainants were possibly experienced cruise folks who were not on that specific trip. Instead they thought it clever to attack the messenger even though other contributors that were on that cruise mostly agreed with what was said, I just hate this type of conflict. Why oh why can't we all accept each other as fellow travellers that are probably very nice company and a charm to be with?? Isn't this possibly one of the rewasons why we take this type of holiday?

[Alibobs]

I read reviews for lots of things, travel, hotels, white goods, clothes.......I read them on the premis that the majority of people who write them have had , in order , a bad experience, a really good experience or enjoy writing reviews. Given that, for example the QM2 carries 2,500 pax per voyage there are usually only 3- 5 reviews for any one trip so hardly representative.

Woth regards to wider reviews of cruises on this site there are many for the same trip, some people rate them as excellent, some as appalling. Same with hotels on Trip Advisor.

While I continue to read reviews and enjoy doing so I would use them as the sole basis for making decisions

One man's meat is another man's poison after all!

[seasidegal]

I too have read the P&O boards from time to time, and I find the tone very different from the Cunard board, which by and large I find to be a much more pleasant forum. And as for being treated in 'the exact same abusive way', well I was actually struck by the fact that the replies to the post in question were, with one slightly unfortunate exception, overwhelmingly polite and courteous, as exemplified by seasidegal's responses. The only person who was abusive was rorsc.

 

 

I agree absolutely. However, I think the point was that rorsc wasn't writing about his own personal experience, but was basing his somewhat vivid opinion on the subjective experiences of other people - presumably people he does not know - rather than his own.

 

Thank you, Wordzz, for those very kind words, and I agree about the responses to Bob (rorsc). Also about this forum being a pleasant place to read and learn and with some members who are very witty. :)

 

The point to me was that Bob (rorsc) came into the forum and instead of stating his concerns and asking anyone's opinion, he used extremely poor taste in words and manner and it was like being hit with a 'gale force wind'.To Bob's credit, he did come back and explain, etc.

 

It is Bob's right, of course, to have any opinion he so desired but it is not anyone's right to demean others while stating it. (so say the rules of CC) He also demeaned a crew he had never sailed with and, I believe, that any crew - any line- should have the simple basic right of not being demeaned by anyone who has not even availed themselves of the crew's services.

 

John (glojo):

 

"Woe betide anyone that dares to write a negative review or speak out about the cruise line!"

 

Personally, I have not found a large degree of that attitude on this forum (there is one forum that I stopped reading for that reason, though). I read for many years without posting as I didn't have anything to contribute but loved reading this forum as I learned so much about the history of Cunard, the ships and cruising from some very knowledgeable and witty people. I also found those people to be quick to answer any questions a person may post. I'm sure you found that helpfulness in abundance here, too. I know I have. I have also found that, although, the Queen's are beloved, especially QM2 (with good reason), that those same people have no problem in stating what is wrong with a ship (i.e. King's Court ;)) and with Cunard if they perceived the company was at a fault in a matter. (i.e. The QV thread over a cancellation of a sailing).

 

I have not only witnessed a fairness about listening to complaints but also a desire that those complaints be factor based and not just 'worst horrible' type of thing that no one can reply to in a helpful manner.

 

I would love to mention names and give a Star Card:) to many members here, but for fear of leaving someone out I will not. However, it just takes

a bit of reading back over the years to determine that good manners are the norm on this forum and when people come in with a bad attitude re: the hatred of the dress code, that that is usually answered with witty responses. I still find it hard to believe that when a ship states a dress code policy and people would desire that policy to be adhered to that they are perceived, often, as being in the wrong or insulted. :confused: For example, I think the Fashion Police came into being as a witty way of trying to handle this type of behaviour.

 

"If folks write about bad service then why not ask what the problem was and listen to the answer?"

 

I think that is done on this forum almost without fail.

 

" I ask this because the usual response is to shoot or abuse the messenger... "

 

I haven't witnessed much of that type of behaviour on this forum through the years at all. I have witnessed members of this forum being insulted by some posters who seem to have no problem name-calling (snobs, etc. just because they want a dress code adhered to) Sad.

 

" Challenge the complainant but why not do it in a polite manner showing the type of respect we ourselves expect?"

 

I have witnessed that type of polite manner almost daily on this forum. This forum excels in 'polite'. When I was researching about a cruise on another line I had not yet sailed on and was reading that forum, I would skip back here to get a 'breath of fresh air' so to speak before diving in again to the muddle of the other forum. For example: I think someone's 'seeing a continued challenge' can be another's person's desire to get a straight answer.

 

MadScientist_01 quote:

 

" I know I do and the best endorsement I can give is not a review - it is simply that my next voyage is on a Cunard ship."

 

Good or bad review the proof is in a person's sailing habits.

 

I wish I were more like capn' with his short witty answers but I don't have that gift so forgive me for the long posts.

 

best regards,

seasidegal

[MaggieMM]

Rorsc, something you wrote really put my mind at ease. "It's more fun to be on a cruise and expecting all to be wonderful than to discover after being forwarned that its not. We're travelling a long way and spending lots to do it. Why take a that risk."

 

I too was looking forward to my first Cunard voyage. But then came the posts about the new dress code. No more evening elegance. Members wrote about how even the TAs got more and more casual with each passing night. T shirts in the theatre. Jeans OK for the Hamburg-Oslo rocker cruise.

 

My expectation was the grand ocean liner formality and elegance. Now it was so suddenly changed. With great sadness I too cancelled. Some people here tried to tell me not to cancel over a dress code. But why sail on Cunard only spend the entire time miserable over the change? Like you I was forewarned.

 

Some of you may judge me to be a pathetic person who has no other place to wear a nice evening dress. Perhaps even petty, selfish, and small minded to cancel just because the other passengers will not be playing ‘’dress up’’ with me. I don’t give a rat's posterior if you do. It is my time and my money and my choice on how not to spend it.

 

QM2 comes into my ‘hood today. Maybe some things are best appreciated from a distance. She still looks elegant outside. That I can still enjoy until she gets the garish hull art to make her a more contemporary and ''with it'' cruise ship to go with the more contemporary and ''with it'' style of dress.

 

I wish you all a great time on which ever ship you choose to sail.