American Credit Cards (no chip)

[WVBill]

Noticed on one of the threads it was mentioned that the ticket machines in the train station would only accept credit cards with chips.

 

Should this be a concern in general (shopping, dining, lodging) or are non-chip credit cards generally accepted ?

[CruiserBruce]

This been beaten to death on the Europe boards. Not having a PIN and chip card will be a problem in places where you use automated machines like train stations, and in some small businesses. Otherwise, you can use non-PIN and chip cards virtually anywhere, even a few places where you don't have human interaction, like gas stations and toll road booths.

 

Was in central Europe for a month last year. In over 50 attempted charges, one card was denied twice, the second card was never denied. The second card was accepted in the two places where the first card was denied. Both cards are standard US style VISA cards.

 

We didn't try in many small cafes at lunch time, tho, as we knew it was unlikely to be accepted.

[KirkNC]

As CB says, the only time you may have a problem is at unmanned gas pumps and train/tram ticket machines. We have never had a problem anywhere with a nonchip card. For public transportation we just are sure to have euros.

[bigwally]

You just offer the card and say "No chip" and "Sign?", making a signing motion with your hand. They pretty much expect Americans to be set-up this way. :)

[doncarlos]

the more of us who push our US card issuers to issue chip cards the sooner this concern will go away . more are issuing each year but most are "high end " cards . make your concerns heard !

[SteveH2508]

You might want to read this from the BBC website yesterday.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22013231

[SoBaycruiser]

You might want to read this from the BBC website yesterday.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22013231

 

I was somewhat confused by this article. Are they saying that the chip and pin card data is stolen and the newly manufactured fake cards are then sent to the US because it doesn't need someone to put in a PIN number there?

[CruiserBruce]

I was somewhat confused by this article. Are they saying that the chip and pin card data is stolen and the newly manufactured fake cards are then sent to the US because it doesn't need someone to put in a PIN number there?

 

No, what it is saying is that if you use a US style (non PIN and chip) credit card, the bad guys send your info to other bad guys in the US for criminal use.

 

This isn't anything new- old info. Yes, it is good reason for US banks to change technologies.

[SteveH2508]

I think they can transfer the data to the magnetic stripe hence they prefer the US because the machines do not read the chip. My main point is to remind people to be careful when they use their cards - cover your PIN entry - do not let your card out of your possession - beware shoulder-surfers etc..

[MATHA531]

I was somewhat confused by this article. Are they saying that the chip and pin card data is stolen and the newly manufactured fake cards are then sent to the US because it doesn't need someone to put in a PIN number there?

 

Unfortunately credit cards issued in the eu not only have to be set for chip and pin, since there are certain backward countries which have resisted for years for reasons that seems to be ridiculous, the transition to the use of chip and pin. For that reason, these cards have to have magnetic styrips for use when the cardholders visit these backward countries.

 

So even though the skimmers get the information off the magnetic strip, for the most part the cloned cards will not work in terminals set for chip and pin as there is information on the magnetic strip that indicates to the cashier the card should be put through the chip reader and it will not work, or at least it shouldn't work, as a swipe card.

 

However the same said card casn be used in any country backward enough not to have started issuing chip and pin cards. There is basically only one such third world country in existence today!

[bigwally]

However the same said card casn be used in any country backward enough not to have started issuing chip and pin cards. There is basically only one such third world country in existence today!

 

 

LOL! That would take spending on...shock...infrastructure. Or an increase in...horror...burdensome legislation. And that there is pinko, commie socialist talk! ;)

[SteveH2508]

LOL! That would take spending on...shock...infrastructure. Or an increase in...horror...burdensome legislation. And that there is pinko, commie socialist talk! ;)

 

Banks spending money to help their customers - Ooh look - there is a flying pig!

[roothy123]

We were in the Baltic last year, plus Germany (or is that considered the Baltic??!) The only place we encountered a problem, other than a couple manned gas stations in Denmark (where we had to have someone come out and take the card to swipe) was at a suburban train station in Germany on a Sunday. On Sundays there's no attendant, so we had to use the ticket machine, and it didn't take our card. We did, however, have some euros, we were able to buy a ticket.

 

We now have a Bank of America World Card with chip and pin. I don't think we paid anything for it, and other than a conversion fee, there are no charges to use it in Europe.

[SixOneTwo]

Requested a chip-and-pin type card from my big American bank last year as we were going to the Baltic. They balked big time. "We're only issuing those to certain limited customers on a promotional basis."

 

I fought hard and won.

 

Took my shiny new card to the post office in Stockholm where it promptly failed to read. It was useless in Europe altogether. Of course, there was no way to check the chip-and-pin function here the the US before we left.

 

Big American Bank 1

Me, 20-year customer 0

[roothy123]

Requested a chip-and-pin type card from my big American bank last year as we were going to the Baltic. They balked big time. "We're only issuing those to certain limited customers on a promotional basis."

 

I fought hard and won.

 

Took my shiny new card to the post office in Stockholm where it promptly failed to read. It was useless in Europe altogether. Of course, there was no way to check the chip-and-pin function here the the US before we left.

 

Big American Bank 1

Me, 20-year customer 0

 

Hhm...In case the new chipped/pinned card doesn't work, I guess I'll be sure to take euros and Norwegian kroner and British pounds on my upcoming trip if I think I'll be using a machine somewhere! Thanks for the heads up! Sure wish the U.S. would go to cards with chips!

[CruiserBruce]

Hhm...In case the new chipped/pinned card doesn't work, I guess I'll be sure to take euros and Norwegian kroner and British pounds on my upcoming trip if I think I'll be using a machine somewhere! Thanks for the heads up! Sure wish the U.S. would go to cards with chips!

 

Do you still have a non PIN and chip card? Take it- you will probably still be able to use it. It is recommended to take two cards- you carry one, your travel partner carries the other. As mentioned, US style cards are widely accepted.

[MATHA531]

There is such a great deal of misunderstanding on this topic on many travel boards. Other travel boards, such as Flyer Talk, have had lengthy discussions bout this as many of the members of that bulletin board are international travelers. Many of the people who participate here are once a year or new travelers, read and hear pieces of the story, panic and in general don't understand. While it is probably easier just to direct you to a blog with lengthy discussions of this, I'll try to give you a few quick facts.

 

What we are talking about is a chip inbeded in the card and the standard one used in Europe is called an EMV chip (electronic mastercard visa). Basically the way it works is if you wish to pay by card, you insert the card into the point of sale (pos) terminal, the terminal asks you to enter your four digit pin and the cashier hands you a rceipt. Transaction finished. These cards also work in many facilities where attendants are not present such as parking garages, service stations, automatic kiosks in train stations.

 

For a variety of reasons, the US banks have resisted this movement and still rely on the ancient technology of the magnetic strip on the back of the card, easily cloned and the cashier checking to see if you signature matches the signature on the signature panel on the card (just think how rarely they check signatures in the USA). As complaints from some travelers of not being able to use their antiquated American cards everywhere, some banks began issuing cards with the emv chip. Several banks just issued these cards for their "premium" accounts ones with high fees and the asinine 3% foreign transaction fee. One bank, Bank of America, has issued a card with an emv chip with no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee called the Travel Rewards card.

 

The catch is that all these cards are what are known as chip and signature cards. You enter the card into the terminal as if it was a chip and pin card but instead of asking for your pin, it spits out a receipt for you to sign and then th cashier is supposed to compare the signature yada yada yada. For the most part, these cards do not work at the unmanned things referred to above. Many of these cards have a pin for use in an ATM but it does not, or at least is not supposed to,function the same way a pin functions in a true chip and pin card. Some people have pointed to very limited success using the cash advance pin sometimes but for the most part, chip and signature cards are no goes at unpeopled kiosks. You can request a pin for cash advances, but it won't alter the fact these are chip and signature cards.

 

At least three fcu's (federal credit unions) in the DC area began issuing what they claimed to be chip and pin cards about a year ago and on-going today. They are Pen(tagon) FCU, Andrews (the Air Force base) FCU and State Department (SD) FCU. While originally for employees of these various organizations, membership is open to everybody through auxillary organizations. However, although they are advertised as chip and pin cards, they really default as chip and signature cards at most manned POS's. Insert the card and it doesn't ask for a pin but spits out a receipt. However, reports are for the most part they DO work as chip and pin at unmanned kisosks. I have all three and have yet to be asked for a PIN (the Pen Fed card I have because it gives a 5% rebate on gasoline purchases. It is also the only one that allows you to pick your PIN, the others assign a four digit PIN at random. The small caveat with these cards is there have been a small number of reports that in some cases, the POS terminal does accept the card as a chip and signature, the merchant refuses to go ahead with the sale for lack of a pin and the POS cannot be made to go to the chip and pin validation on the card if it (not the merchant's decision) accepts chip and signature. I don't know if this is a major problem.

 

Finally, USAA has begun offering what it claims to be a true chip and pin card at least on its mastercards although they claim they will eventually make emv chip cards available for all their credit cards. Don't know how they work, haven't tried yet the one I have but bear in mind that although there is no annual fee, USAA charges a 1% foreign transacton fee which the above mentioned FCU's do not.

 

Now this is a Britain board. For the most part, British merchants' pos terminals continue to be able to accept the antiquated American non chip magnetic strip cards as do the machines on the Lonon underground. So it shouldn't be a problem in Great Britain but as you move more into Central and Eastern Europe where carit cards are not a way of life the way they are in the USA and Britain, you might encounter problems with credit card acceptance.

 

Perhaps the best way to sum this up is to look at Capital One. For years, Capital One built much (but not its complete) of its credit card program on the idea they didn't charge a foreign transaction fee. Yet they have refused to issue any cards with emv chips. You call their customer service reps and they are trained to say,, "We don't think emv chips are necessary as all merchants must by contract accept any mastercard or visa card." Of course try telling that to an automatic gasoline pump in rural France on a Sunday afternoon and see what kind of response you will get.

[Cotswold Eagle]

Thanks for your summary, to which I will refer all future queries on this subject :)

 

Just one minor quibble, my understanding is that EMV is Europay, MasterCard and Visa? Which serves to highlight where the potential problem might be, I guess.

[bigwally]

Now this is a Britain board. For the most part, British merchants' pos terminals continue to be able to accept the antiquated American non chip magnetic strip cards as do the machines on the Lonon underground.

 

 

Never had ANY luck in the tube with an American non-chip credit card. Debit card...yes. Credit card...no. Though the last attempt was now two years ago, so things may have changed.

[SixOneTwo]

Coincidentally, this article appeared in our local newspaper today, about the slow transition to chip-and-pin here in the US. I had no idea how complex the change-over would be. Not that I'm particularly sympathetic towards banks and ATM owners, but it is helpful to understand all that's involved.

 

http://www.startribune.com/business/201779041.html

[Maddle]

Coincidentally, this article appeared in our local newspaper today, about the slow transition to chip-and-pin here in the US. I had no idea how complex the change-over would be. Not that I'm particularly sympathetic towards banks and ATM owners, but it is helpful to understand all that's involved.

 

http://www.startribune.com/business/201779041.html

 

Thank you for this interesting link.

 

I am surpirsed at the amount of detail in this article that I would have considered proprietary. Usually security plans are kept close to the vest by banks. This seems like a roadmap for thieves.

 

Maddle

[skisteamboat]

i have a British Airways Chip and Signature Card from Chase and it has worked everywhere in Europe I have tried. Denmark, Germany, Austria, UK, Spain and I forgotten where else. What happens is the machine reads the Chip and prints out a receipt to sign.

 

Knowing better than to try automated machines, I just use the manned station to get train tickets etc.

 

Cheers