Things being Discontinued the Fall?

[startwin]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] I really like the spirit of what you are saying but having the Chief Housekeeper or Assistant spend so much time dealing with those who want HSC removed, likely will lead to some service complaints. They don't have the spare time to be spent doing that. Their spending time on complaint lines takes them from other work that will suffer.

[COLOR=Red]The ones that irk me are those who 'suffer in silence' their whole cruise and last day make their complaint known when they request removal of HSC.[/COLOR] The goal, one would think, is to have the best cruise possible. If you don't tell them you have a situation you want addressed, how can they know you have a complaint and do something about it? It starts to look like all the complainer wants at that point is 'compensation'..... darn but I hate that word. If they wanted the defect corrected and that was all, they would have spoken up a lot sooner.

[/B][/quote]

Just curious - how do you know they have suffered or even if they haven't said anything?

[igraf]

I agree with you in principle, but one has to keep in mind that the hotel service charge allows HAL to advertise inaccurately low cruise prices. Most of us know that the total cruise cost will be much higher than the advertised price, but an artificially low price remains a powerful and somewhat deceitful selling practice. Any mandatory charge by HAL (not including government fees) must be part of the advertised price to go on the cruise.

Thus, that HSC must remain optional with a simply method to opt out. For what it is worth, we have never done so.

igraf





[quote name='jtl513']The HSC is not a tip or gratuity. It is a charge for service rendered, and we should stop using the terms that infer that it is a gift.

HAL should rigidly demand that anyone wanting to lower or remove it must detail exactly what service(s) failed to satisfy them, and stop accepting any other lame excuses.

Maybe it should be a more difficult process for the passengers. Don't allow the Front Desk clerks to do it, but require a meeting with someone higher up, like the Chief Housekeeper or Assistant ... who should make the complaint line move as slowly as possible! :D And don't allow it at cruise end if there have been no attempts during the cruise to get alleged unsatisfactory service corrected![/quote]

[SilvertoGold]

Well, what an interesting discussion I started here!

One thing that looks clear: no disembarkation talk would work nicely with making the HSC being made mandatory (great!!) and the surveys being sent by email. No need to trot out so many crew menbers who have better things to do with their time, no need to beg for 9's (once home, will a newbie even remember that?) and no need to go through the embarassment explaining the HSC and hinting for extra tips ("not required but appreciated").
The CDs should be in heaven not having to do this every week!

My next question: will anything be left of HAL's "premium" style be left?

[MadManOfBethesda]

[quote name='lka1012'] I like cruising because for me (traveling solo) it is actually the most economical (and safe) way to travel. My room and food is included, which saves what little extra money I have to spend on other things....[/quote]

[quote name='startwin'] Personally, I save hard for my cruises especially now in retirement and on a "fixed income" - somewhat scraping together the fare. And in recent years, I am very careful to budget my spending. What I spend onboard, or not as the case may be, is no one else's business. The cruise contract does not contain any clause requiring a certain amount to be spent on board the ship.[/quote]

Haven't you two been paying attention? You need to spend more money on board so that others can continue to bring unlimited bottles of wine on board. After all, HAL has to get their revenue from some place. You have a lot of nerve thinking that you have the right to take a cruise if all you are going to do is pay your fare and not spend a significant amount on optional activities.

We don't want your kind on board "our" beloved HAL. If you can't afford to spend money on wine, liquor, bingo, shorex, photos, etc., please just stay home. Given your budgetary contraints, you are destroying the ambiance that we so richly deserve.

[lka1012]

[quote name='SilvertoGold']Well, what an interesting discussion I started here! My next question: will anything be left of HAL's "premium" style be left?[/quote]

Yea, we did kinda get off target here. Or rather slipped sideways. Back to original question. Since the majority of HAL cruisers are repeat cruisers, most of us can recite the disembarkation speech from memory. Any cruise specific questions can be handled via letter. There can be a question and answer session for those who have questions.

I hope they keep the "day" mats in the elevator because I would not now the day if they did not.

[lka1012]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']Haven't you two been paying attention? You need to spend more money on board so that others can continue to bring unlimited bottles of wine on board. After all, HAL has to get their revenue from some place. You have a lot of nerve thinking that you have the right to take a cruise if all you are going to do is pay your fare and not spend a significant amount on optional activities.

We don't want your kind on board "our" beloved HAL. If you can't afford to spend money on wine, liquor, bingo, shorex, photos, etc., please just stay home. Given your budgetary contraints, you are destroying the ambiance that we so richly deserve.[/quote]

I hope you are being sarcastic. I do spend money onboard, mainly in the spa and ShoreEx. I don't like the taste of wine and liquors, so I do not buy them. (I can drink Mojitos all day long though).

[buckirj1]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] An honest question requesting a straight forward answer, if you please.

What on earth is *elitist* (as written in your post) about placing cash in an envelope, writing a nice message of thanks and giving it most politely to a steward or bartender or other crew person who went out of their way to give us the best cruise possible?

We still tip by use of envelope, over and above the HSC. Almost always, our dining and cabin stewards as well as others work very hard to provide us a great cruise, we choose to give something additional. That is elitist? :confused:

This word 'elitist' is being used so often in so many ways, I no longer know what it means.
It seems sometimes it sounds to me like a handy dandy catchall to throw an insult. Am I wrong?


[/B][/quote]

Fair question, and no insult was or is intended. I'm troubled, and feel like I'm getting "above my raising", by the personal nature of the whole business. It really does make me feel like I'm trying to act like I'm better than they...and I know I'm not.

Like you, I often leave extra for my cabin steward, write the note, etc...and leave it where the steward will find it, addressed to him/her by name. I know sometimes I throw off their schedule by sleeping late, and by requesting no service for a day or two...and I feel that deserves some extra compensation. I just don't feel comfortable doing it in person. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me at all to tell him in passing as I'm leaving, "Dude, thanks for everything. Take care, now!"

I don't necessarily think anybody else who enjoys that sort of social interaction is elitist; it just makes ME feel that way. So I don't. I've found the best way for me to handle uncomfortable situations is to avoid them. Or maybe I'm hopelessly inept at social matters:o It's a way that works for me and many others for all kinds of reasons, and I'm thankful the cruise industry came up with the HSC.

[SilvertoGold]

[quote name='lka1012']I hope you are being sarcastic. I do spend money onboard, mainly in the spa and ShoreEx. I don't like the taste of wine and liquors, so I do not buy them. (I can drink Mojitos all day long though).[/quote]

He is being sarcastic.
I appreciate your postings. You bring up some valid points, especially that not everyone who sails HAL or cruises in general is the same. People are coming from different angles and want different things from a cruise. Solos, couples, families, all different!

[sail7seas]

[quote name='startwin']Just curious - how do you know they have suffered or even if they haven't said anything?[/quote]


[B] Because, among other things, they have come here to CC and told us they had issues but didn't want to 'make a fuss' about it. :rolleyes: We have also been told by crew.

[/b]

[kazu]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']Yes, let's put it into perspective. People don't walk out of their hotel rooms with wine in their hands and take it into hotel or other city restaurants to drink at dinner so that they don't have to pay for a glass. They also don't walk out of their hotel rooms with drinks in hand and then walk into a hotel or city bar or lounge in order to save on their bar bills. Yet, I have never - - - repeat, never - - - been on a HAL cruise where I didn't observe passengers doing that very same thing.

And, please, spare me the posts from others stating that you only drink in your room or take bottles to the MDR and pay the corkage fee. I have no doubt that there are plenty of ethical passengers who do so. However, that does not negate the fact that there are plenty of passengers who do as I described.[/QUOTE]

Well, I'm sorry but we DON'T take drinks out of our cabin. No need. Lots of lounges on board.

I watched on our last sailing having seen many people post about this (and yes, you can tell the difference in the glasses:)) - there were about 20 people out of a ship of 843 on Main seating in the dining room who carried glasses in - they were all from the Crow's Nest. How do I know? I was there:) Mind you only a portion of the passengers were there - I agree but usually you can gage it.

It probably didn't hurt that we had an excellent cellar master and excellent wine stewards with very quick and wonderful service:)

[sail7seas]

[quote name='buckirj1']Fair question, and no insult was or is intended. I'm troubled, and feel like I'm getting "above my raising", by the personal nature of the whole business. It really does make me feel like I'm trying to act like I'm better than they...and I know I'm not.

Like you, I often leave extra for my cabin steward, write the note, etc...and leave it where the steward will find it, addressed to him/her by name. I know sometimes I throw off their schedule by sleeping late, and by requesting no service for a day or two...and I feel that deserves some extra compensation. I just don't feel comfortable doing it in person. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me at all to tell him in passing as I'm leaving, "Dude, thanks for everything. Take care, now!"

I don't necessarily think anybody else who enjoys that sort of social interaction is elitist; it just makes ME feel that way. So I don't. I've found the best way for me to handle uncomfortable situations is to avoid them. Or maybe I'm hopelessly inept at social matters:o It's a way that works for me and many others for all kinds of reasons, and I'm thankful the cruise industry came up with the HSC.[/quote]


[B] Thanks for explaining. I'm glad I asked as I now feel better about your first post using that word.

I understand what you are saying but am still not sure elitist is the best word for the practice of politely tipping.

Maybe it's only a matter of semantics. :)

[/B]

[jtl513]

[quote name='startwin']Directly from HAL's website:
[/quote]Exactly! Other than the title line, where a new HAL cruiser would search for info, they don't again use the words tip or gratuity until the last line where they are talking about services [U]off[/U] the ship. If we all follow suit and stop using those words maybe the idea will finally sink in that it is not a gift. :)

[luvteaching]

Got off the Oosterdam last Sunday (June 30th) and still had Days of the Week carpets in the elevators, the disembarkation "talk" and the paper surveys. I wouldn't mind the on-line survey idea at all. Since the room stewards now give you a card with their names it makes it easier to remember! We don't bring wine on but we do bring on soda (some). Still buy a soda card and a beverage card to use on the ship. We are also ones who save for our cruises and totally enjoy them. We tend to do HAL excursions but do a lot of exploring on our own. It's amazing, sometimes, where my husband's mobility scooter can go! I'd vote for no smoking on the balconies although haven't had any real problems with it.

Karen

[MadManOfBethesda]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']Yes, let's put it into perspective. People don't walk out of their hotel rooms with wine in their hands and take it into hotel or other city restaurants to drink at dinner so that they don't have to pay for a glass. They also don't walk out of their hotel rooms with drinks in hand and then walk into a hotel or city bar or lounge in order to save on their bar bills. Yet, I have never - - - repeat, never - - - been on a HAL cruise where I didn't observe passengers doing that very same thing.

And, please, spare me the posts from others stating that you only drink in your room or take bottles to the MDR and pay the corkage fee. I have no doubt that there are plenty of ethical passengers who do so. However, that does not negate the fact that there are plenty of passengers who do as I described.[/quote]

[quote name='kazu']Well, I'm sorry but we DON'T take drinks out of our cabin. No need. Lots of lounges on board. [/quote]

You somehow missed the second paragraph of my post above so let me repeat it for you: [I]And, please, spare me the posts from others stating that you only drink in your room or take bottles to the MDR and pay the corkage fee. I have no doubt that there are plenty of ethical passengers who do so. However, that does not negate the fact that there are plenty of passengers who do as I described.[/I]

Oh, and as for you noting that the glasses in the staterooms are different from bar glassware and using that to justify your observation that only a relatively few passengers do what I described, I haver some bad news for you. You've been taken in by the other passengers just as they hoped you would be. These passengers request empty glasses from bartenders and take those back to their rooms. Some actually purchase one drink from the bar and then just refill it as necessary from their private stock. How do I know this? I've had tablemates brag about doing so.

[cruz chic]

[quote name='buckirj1']Fair question, and no insult was or is intended. I'm troubled, and feel like I'm getting "above my raising", by the personal nature of the whole business. It really does make me feel like I'm trying to act like I'm better than they...and I know I'm not.

Like you, I often leave extra for my cabin steward, write the note, etc...and leave it where the steward will find it, addressed to him/her by name. I know sometimes I throw off their schedule by sleeping late, and by requesting no service for a day or two...and I feel that deserves some extra compensation. I just don't feel comfortable doing it in person. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me at all to tell him in passing as I'm leaving, "Dude, thanks for everything. Take care, now!"

I don't necessarily think anybody else who enjoys that sort of social interaction is elitist; it just makes ME feel that way. So I don't. I've found the best way for me to handle uncomfortable situations is to avoid them. Or maybe I'm hopelessly inept at social matters:o It's a way that works for me and many others for all kinds of reasons, and I'm thankful the cruise industry came up with the HSC.[/QUOTE]
I'm the same way as you. I leave an envelope in my cabin. I find it embarrassing to hand over envelopes so if I can't avoid it I do face them.

[kazu]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']You somehow missed the second paragraph of my post above so let me repeat it for you: [I]And, please, spare me the posts from others stating that you only drink in your room or take bottles to the MDR and pay the corkage fee. I have no doubt that there are plenty of ethical passengers who do so. However, that does not negate the fact that there are plenty of passengers who do as I described.[/I]

Oh, and as for you noting that the glasses in the staterooms are different from bar glassware and using that to justify your observation that only a relatively few passengers do what I described, I haver some bad news for you. You've been taken in by the other passengers just as they hoped you would be. These passengers request empty glasses from bartenders and take those back to their rooms. Some actually purchase one drink from the bar and then just refill it as necessary from their private stock. How do I know this? I've had tablemates brag about doing so.[/QUOTE]

and you obviously did not read the rest of my post - I saw the people in the Crow's Nest buying the drinks (it was packed every night). No one scooted back to a cabin.

I really think this is blown a bit out of proportion - or, as I said the demographics are different on shorter cruises.

I think assumptions are being made - perhaps accurately, perhaps unfairly

Sorry, it's a small ship and I don't get taken in easily. I know what I saw - I was there - you weren't. And for 30 days - so I had plenty of time to take it all in.

in any case - I believe anyone can respond to a post if they so choose - or if they have a comment to make? or have the rules changed on the boards?

[TiogaCruiser]

[quote name='igraf']I agree with you in principle, but one has to keep in mind that the hotel service charge allows HAL to advertise inaccurately low cruise prices. Most of us know that the total cruise cost will be much higher than the advertised price, but an artificially low price remains a powerful and somewhat deceitful selling practice. Any mandatory charge by HAL (not including government fees) must be part of the advertised price to go on the cruise.

Thus, that HSC must remain optional with a simply method to opt out. For what it is worth, we have never done so.

igraf[/QUOTE]

I believe I've heard people talk of a different line (not sure which) where one cannot remove the HSC...... If that is the case, how do they word the policy and do they count HSC toward the total cost quote?

[Laminator]

[quote name='whogo']Perhaps it is the staff that wants to keep staffing levels low. The pie is only so big and each gets a bigger piece with fewer staff.[/quote]

I can assure you it's not the staff. The room attendants and dining room stewards along with other workers are guaranteed a minimum salary. If the HSC does not reach that level per cruise HAL has to fork over the difference for their pay. This is one of the reasons you are seeing staff cutbacks. HAL is tired of reaching into their own pockets.

[startwin]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] Because, among other things, they have come here to CC and told us they had issues but didn't want to 'make a fuss' about it. :rolleyes: We have also been told by crew.

[/B][/quote]


So they said they didn't want to make a fuss but they demanded to have the HSC removed anyway? Can't say I've seen that but I don't disbelieve you for a second. But that the crew discusses other pax with you. Hmm..

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

why does HAl not just add the hotel service charge to the cost of cruise.
they can say if you have womderful service you can give more. They do not have revel the amount. I was on Amerstbam last two years. I had a wonderful bartender on my cruise in 2011. I wanted to give her a exra tip she went upbovr and beyond. I could not find her the last night of cruise. When I went back last year I saw her and we had a big hug. I gave her the tip from last year.


I hope they never do away with the towels animals. I love coming back to my room to see what is there.

I use to drink Pepsi I hate Coke. My last Pepsi was when I got home from the cruise. But I do drink some water. I may bring two bottles of wine for my cabin. I have never had free wine in MDR (only time was when Officers visited our table in 2011. I buy wine for dinner.
then go to crows nest for happy hours. I buy a few tours, and spend a bit of money in shops. I buy some stock photo's.

I think they will start charging for books and dvd's. Maybe all shuttles.

Mary

[startwin]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']Haven't you two been paying attention? You need to spend more money on board so that others can continue to bring unlimited bottles of wine on board. After all, HAL has to get their revenue from some place. You have a lot of nerve thinking that you have the right to take a cruise if all you are going to do is pay your fare and not spend a significant amount on optional activities.

We don't want your kind on board "our" beloved HAL. If you can't afford to spend money on wine, liquor, bingo, shorex, photos, etc., please just stay home. Given your budgetary contraints, you are destroying the ambiance that we so richly deserve.[/quote]

If you DON'T have your tongue firmly in cheek with this response to my post, I sincerely hope you have bitten it off.:rolleyes:

[startwin]

[quote name='lorekauf']I'm the same way as you. I leave an envelope in my cabin. I find it embarrassing to hand over envelopes so if I can't avoid it I do face them.[/quote]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way:o I like to leave an envelope with a little note, I find it so awkward to hand it over personally.

[LindaM]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']You somehow missed the second paragraph of my post above so let me repeat it for you: [I]And, please, spare me the posts from others stating that you only drink in your room or take bottles to the MDR and pay the corkage fee. I have no doubt that there are plenty of ethical passengers who do so. However, that does not negate the fact that there are plenty of passengers who do as I described.[/I]

Oh, and as for you noting that the glasses in the staterooms are different from bar glassware and using that to justify your observation that only a relatively few passengers do what I described, I haver some bad news for you. You've been taken in by the other passengers just as they hoped you would be. These passengers request empty glasses from bartenders and take those back to their rooms. Some actually purchase one drink from the bar and then just refill it as necessary from their private stock. How do I know this? I've had tablemates brag about doing so.[/QUOTE]

We only sail HAL in Europe on Prinsendam. I have brought a glass of wine purchased at happy hour in the Crow's Nest into the showlounge. This embarrassed DH, but at least it was HAL wine!! I just have not seen people abusing bringing their wine into venues. Once, some drunks brought a bottle from their room to the table. Perhaps there are more abusers in the Caribbean. This is my guess---people who benefit from HAL's wonderful pricing in the Caribbean may lack a little class and feel no shame in doing whatever to save even more money. I just hope that those of us who sail in Europe are not punished because of their behavior or lack thereof.

[LindaM]

[quote name='lorekauf']Princess no longer has a liberal wine policy. That changed this year.[/QUOTE]

Do you know what it is? I know people were stressing about the possibilities right before we sailed with them in Sept. I'll have to go to their boards and find out!

[MadManOfBethesda]

[quote name='kazu']and you obviously did not read the rest of my post - I saw the people in the Crow's Nest buying the drinks (it was packed every night). No one scooted back to a cabin.

I really think this is blown a bit out of proportion - or, as I said the demographics are different on shorter cruises.

I think assumptions are being made - perhaps accurately, perhaps unfairly

Sorry, it's a small ship and I don't get taken in easily. I know what I saw - I was there - you weren't. And for 30 days - so I had plenty of time to take it all in.

in any case - I believe anyone can respond to a post if they so choose - or if they have a comment to make? or have the rules changed on the boards?[/quote]

Who's telling you you can't respond to a post? Let me break down my comment for you so you won't misinterpret it for a third time. I basically said that people didn't need to post that they themselves would never take wine/drinks from their room; I stipulated that I had no doubt that there are numerous ethical passengers who would never do such a thing. That doesn't negate the fact that there are plenty of people who do. If you and others want to waste your time and energy stating that you are one of those ethical people even though it serves absolutely no purpose to do so, by all means, feel free.:rolleyes:


And as for your observations, I'll try this one more time: we're talking about [I][U]my[/U][/I] observations, not yours. Is that really such a difficult concept? I - - repeat - - I - - have observed people coming out of their cabins and taking wine and/or drinks to the MDR, lounges, pool, and other public areas on every single HAL cruise that I've been on. I'm not remotely interested in what you saw or didn't see on your 30-day cruise.

With regard to your comment that you aren't easily taken in, all I can say is that if you believe that you can tell how many people are walking around with drinks from their room based on their glassware, you are very naive. Most people know not to use those ridiculous glasses from the stateroom if they are going to be walking around with "illicit" drinks. (Although apparently at least 20 people on your cruise weren't that smart.)