Holland America Reduces Bring-On Wine Allowance

[Wakepatrol]

The majority of my cruises are Joe Schmoes as well. And have you seen how much those World Cruisers pay for their cruise - some of them every year?? No wonder HAL doesn't want to upset them and are making them exempt from the new policy.:rolleyes:

 

Yes those world cruisers certainly spend a lot of money.

I really doubt Hal is worried about them.

 

I can't see the Publix on 17th street full of world cruisers buying $6 a bottle wine. Don't get the roll eyes emoticon after everything you post?

Or is that just for dramatic effect?

[PunkiC]

I will have respect for you if you do that (I'm sure you don't care if I do). Many people have said they will stop sailing HAL for various reasons yet they still are. That makes me doubt many things they say.

 

 

Well I assure you that I most certainly mean exactly what I say. We don't have that much invested in HAL status and the two biggest draws for us on HAL were the fact that they always have a priest on board, and they allowed us to board our own wine. Well we also enjoy the ambiance, but that is equally nice on Cunard and certainly acceptable on Princess.

 

So sailing with Princess or Cunard is just fine with us. Actually better in some ways because of the perks they offer that we don't get on HAL, i.e. military credit, etc.

[PunkiC]

Here are some interesting statistics that may be of help in your debate:

 

We all know (most of us anyway) that beverage sales are a major element in the cruise industry revenue and profit stream.

 

For the past 12 consecutive years, the entire worldwide cruise industry (approximately 240 cruise ships at this point), has been unable to sell an average of one bottle of wine per passenger per cruise.

 

If you take away all the underage passengers who shouldn't be able to purchase wine, and all those who have religious or health restrictions on drinking wine, we still have not been able to sell a full bottle of wine per passenger per cruise for the past 12 years.

 

Looking at individual cruise lines, not one has been able to achieve one bottle of wine sold per passenger per cruise.

CLIA has averaged all cruises of any length on all major cruise lines to get these numbers.

 

The questions the cruise lines are asking:

 

1. Is every cruise line just really poor at selling wine to cruise passengers?

2. Does every cruise line have such a poor selection that the passengers are not interested?

3. Does every cruise line charge too much for their wines?

4. Are most cruise passengers not wine drinkers?

5. Are so many passengers bringing so much wine onboard that they do not want or need to purchase any from us?

6. If we are serious about selling more wine, are we marketing to the right demographic?

 

Very interesting. We love to bring our own wine on board, but we also buy wine in the MDR. We don't always like it and experimenting, given the mark-up is sometimes painful, but we do it.

 

We will not, however, sail on a ship where we are not allowed to board wine at embarkation and at ports. If we have to pay a corkage fee, we can live with that, but not being able to buy wine all over the world takes a bunch of the fun out of cruising.

 

And, please, don't tell me I could buy it at take it home. Seriously, it is about buying it and enjoying in on you balcony as you sail away from one wonderful and exotic destination to the next. ;)

[MR NW GUY]

After much consideration and repeated advise from the 4-points of life of the civilized and well educated world, I am now ready to take position on Holland America's new wine policy!

 

No more questions or comments from me... just a final position!

 

HAL is really really really really stupid for not allowing unlimited wine to be carried on board!

 

HAL will probably have 40% of their passengers jump ship and regret this decision!

 

CCL stock is going to sink to recession levels in January 2014 when all the wine drinkers go to RCL or NCL

 

I need to sign a petition anonymously telling the world that Holland America has no business to change their own wine policy and try to make a profit.

 

I am so very thankful for having my eyes and mind opened with all the logical fact based data shared by my followers who were so considerate to reply to virtually every one on my postings!

 

CHEERS!

[startwin]

Yes those world cruisers certainly spend a lot of money.

I really doubt Hal is worried about them.

 

I can't see the Publix on 17th street full of world cruisers buying $6 a bottle wine. Don't get the roll eyes emoticon after everything you post?

Or is that just for dramatic effect?

 

Not quite after everything I post, but as often as I can.:rolleyes:

[MR NW GUY]

:rolleyes:

Not quite after everything I post, but as often as I can.:rolleyes:

It is a cute trademark.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Omega1]

After much consideration and repeated advise from the 4-points of life of the civilized and well educated world, I am now ready to take position on Holland America's new wine policy!

 

No more questions or comments from me... just a final position!

 

HAL is really really really really stupid for not allowing unlimited wine to be carried on board!

 

HAL will probably have 40% of their passengers jump ship and regret this decision!

 

CCL stock is going to sink to recession levels in January 2014 when all the wine drinkers go to RCL or NCL

 

I need to sign a petition anonymously telling the world that Holland America has no business to change their own wine policy and try to make a profit.

 

I am so very thankful for having my eyes and mind opened with all the logical fact based data shared by my followers who were so considerate to reply to virtually every one on my postings!

 

CHEERS!

 

Picture the scene, a large cruise ship with a dark blue hull cutting through the waves. Cut to the prow of the ship and there's MrNWGuy, arms spread wide, shouting 'I'm king of the cynics'.

 

Actually, I found your post quite amusing. Thanks for the chuckle.;)

[MR NW GUY]

Picture the scene, a large cruise ship with a dark blue hull cutting through the waves. Cut to the prow of the ship and there's MrNWGuy, arms spread wide, shouting 'I'm king of the cynics'.

 

Actually, I found your post quite amusing. Thanks for the chuckle.;)

I am glad you enjoyed it! I am pretty sure most everyone here will:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cheers!

[dockman]

I agree that if it were priced fairly, people would buy it. Back in the day when we first started cruising, in the late 70's, Heiniken was $1/bottle. We thought that was a great price at that time. I recall most of the alcohol prices being low. Then, they started going up, up, up!! The price of alcohol rose at a much greater percentage than cruise fares have.

 

The statistics on selling wine on cruiseships was most interesting. Thanks to Bruce.

 

 

I seem to remember going on Holland about 1972 and they PROUDLY sold Heinken Beer....a product of Holland...for something like 50 cents.

 

So now Holland, controlled by Carnival Corp, is going to increase the nickel and diming to death of their customers to try and get the stock price to go up a nickel or so? The Carnival Corp execs then expect the already OVERWORKED staff to try and play detective to prevent some grandma from smuggling on a bottle of wine she bought in Italy.

 

My guess is that a lot of the Holland Indonesia and fillipino staff may not want to "catch" too many people and have to take a bunch of grief just so some Carnvial execs stock options might be worth more. It is hard to imagine that I could be on a cruise in Italy or Chile or Australia and yet NOT be allowed to buy a bottle of wine and bring it onboard and drink it. Just imagine staying in a hotel that SEARCHED your luggage or told you that you cannot drink your own wine in your own room?

 

Cruise execs need to remember that passengers PUT UP with tiny rooms on cruise ships compared to what they would normally consider far from adequate at home or in a hotel.

Now the cruise lines make it even less attractive alternative by telling you what you can and can't do in the privacy of your own room.

 

As usual...follow the money. IF IF IF enough former HAL customers cancel cruises and register their disappointment in being treated like children and having their privacy invaded perhaps the execs would listen....but I won't hold my breath.

[Omega1]

I seem to remember going on Holland about 1972 and they PROUDLY sold Heinken Beer....a product of Holland...for something like 50 cents.

 

So now Holland, controlled by Carnival Corp, is going to increase the nickel and diming to death of their customers to try and get the stock price to go up a nickel or so? The Carnival Corp execs then expect the already OVERWORKED staff to try and play detective to prevent some grandma from smuggling on a bottle of wine she bought in Italy.

 

My guess is that a lot of the Holland Indonesia and fillipino staff may not want to "catch" too many people and have to take a bunch of grief just so some Carnvial execs stock options might be worth more. It is hard to imagine that I could be on a cruise in Italy or Chile or Australia and yet NOT be allowed to buy a bottle of wine and bring it onboard and drink it. Just imagine staying in a hotel that SEARCHED your luggage or told you that you cannot drink your own wine in your own room?

 

Cruise execs need to remember that passengers PUT UP with tiny rooms on cruise ships compared to what they would normally consider far from adequate at home or in a hotel.

Now the cruise lines make it even less attractive alternative by telling you what you can and can't do in the privacy of your own room.

 

As usual...follow the money. IF IF IF enough former HAL customers cancel cruises and register their disappointment in being treated like children and having their privacy invaded perhaps the execs would listen....but I won't hold my breath.

 

Absolutely!

[kazu]

It is extremely difficult to figure out.

This is the HAL Board - but I am talking about the numbers for ALL MAJOR CRUISE LINES.

Some of them have rather nice wine lists and some of them have very reasonable wine prices.

Some of them charge very high fares and attract a very toney crowd.

But those lines with great lists, great prices, and high fares do not sell any more wine than HAL does.

12 years ago, when several major cruise lines allowed guests to bring their own wine onboard, they were selling the same number of bottles onboard that they are today - less than one per passenger per cruise.

All of us face the same challenges.

 

Why are today's cruise passengers - ON ALL MAJOR CRUISE LINES - purchasing less than one bottle of wine per person per cruise, regardless of selection, prices, or fares?

 

the bolding is mine Bruce - good question. I'm baffled as we certainly get more than one bottle per person per cruise (as did our travelling companions) - There is a bottle of wine at our dining room table every night. they ran out of our wine selections before the end of the cruise and had to offer substitutions so obviously there were others ordering as well:) I know we weren't the only ones keeping the wine steward and the cellar master busy;)

[cruz chic]

I seem to remember going on Holland about 1972 and they PROUDLY sold Heinken Beer....a product of Holland...for something like 50 cents.

 

So now Holland, controlled by Carnival Corp, is going to increase the nickel and diming to death of their customers to try and get the stock price to go up a nickel or so? The Carnival Corp execs then expect the already OVERWORKED staff to try and play detective to prevent some grandma from smuggling on a bottle of wine she bought in Italy.

 

My guess is that a lot of the Holland Indonesia and fillipino staff may not want to "catch" too many people and have to take a bunch of grief just so some Carnvial execs stock options might be worth more. It is hard to imagine that I could be on a cruise in Italy or Chile or Australia and yet NOT be allowed to buy a bottle of wine and bring it onboard and drink it. Just imagine staying in a hotel that SEARCHED your luggage or told you that you cannot drink your own wine in your own room?

 

Cruise execs need to remember that passengers PUT UP with tiny rooms on cruise ships compared to what they would normally consider far from adequate at home or in a hotel.

Now the cruise lines make it even less attractive alternative by telling you what you can and can't do in the privacy of your own room.

 

As usual...follow the money. IF IF IF enough former HAL customers cancel cruises and register their disappointment in being treated like children and having their privacy invaded perhaps the execs would listen....but I won't hold my breath.

 

I did stay in a hotel in Mexico in the early 90's that searched you every time you came into the hotel. They did not want you to bring in any outside drink or food into the hotel.

[cruz chic]

the bolding is mine Bruce - good question. I'm baffled as we certainly get more than one bottle per person per cruise (as did our travelling companions) - There is a bottle of wine at our dining room table every night. they ran out of our wine selections before the end of the cruise and had to offer substitutions so obviously there were others ordering as well:) I know we weren't the only ones keeping the wine steward and the cellar master busy;)

 

I've found the exact opposite. I have open dining and eat at tables that are usually 6 to 8 tops. Generally I'm the only one drinking wine. Maybe people are cheap or the wine is to expensive. Either that or they tire of the wine stewards making origami animals, taking picture or standing looking off into space. I understand the Prinsendam is not like that. Its not the usual standard of service for Hal. This has been my experience on many ships so not an anomaly.

[sapper1]

I did stay in a hotel in Mexico in the early 90's that searched you every time you came into the hotel. They did not want you to bring in any outside drink or food into the hotel.

 

Bet you scratched that one off your favourites list.

[kazu]

I've found the exact opposite. I have open dining and eat at tables that are usually 6 to 8 tops. Generally I'm the only one drinking wine. Maybe people are cheap or the wine is to expensive.

 

Interesting Lorene - we do main (late) dining fixed. Our experiences have mostly been on the smaller ships. Have no idea if that has any bearing on it or not. On the P'dam the Cellar Master was assisting the wine steward - so wine service was definitely busy:)

[cruz chic]

Bet you scratched that one off your favourites list.

 

It was irritating for sure. I wonder if it is still around. It was a very nice hotel some maybe they didn't want common food and drink in there:D.

[dogo88]

I will have respect for you if you do that (I'm sure you don't care if I do). Many people have said they will stop sailing HAL for various reasons yet they still are. That makes me doubt many things they say.

 

Can't speak for others, but I've sent HAL an email explaining why we are not happy with the new policy and have booked our next cruise with another line.

 

Dan

[cruz chic]

Can't speak for others, but I've sent HAL an email explaining why we are not happy with the new policy and have booked our next cruise with another line.

 

Dan

I don't want to tell you what to do and maybe you've already done it, but what about sending a letter? I think in this day and age a letter goes further than an email because an email is so easy to send. A letter is more work.

[Wakepatrol]

After much consideration and repeated advise from the 4-points of life of the civilized and well educated world, I am now ready to take position on Holland America's new wine policy!

 

No more questions or comments from me... just a final position!

 

HAL is really really really really stupid for not allowing unlimited wine to be carried on board!

 

HAL will probably have 40% of their passengers jump ship and regret this decision!

 

CCL stock is going to sink to recession levels in January 2014 when all the wine drinkers go to RCL or NCL

 

I need to sign a petition anonymously telling the world that Holland America has no business to change their own wine policy and try to make a profit.

 

I am so very thankful for having my eyes and mind opened with all the logical fact based data shared by my followers who were so considerate to reply to virtually every one on my postings!

 

CHEERS!

 

 

I was just reflecting on what could have been.

 

When you set up that overly complicated yes or no poll the other day,the chips just didn't fall your way.

 

Had the poll shown that the new wine policy would impact 70% of the passengers,you would have been the hero.

 

The postings would have been something like

 

"Thanks For Posting This Poll"

 

"Thanks For Taking The Time To Set Up Such An Eloquent Poll"

 

You would have been more popular than Vince Lombardi in Green Bay,or Derek Jeter in NYC

 

You would have been the new king bee of cruise critic. There probably would be a bronze bust of you in the Prinsendam's crows nest.

 

Unfortunately the numbers didn't shake out properly

 

Then we found out the poll was worded incorrectly was meaningless and you were just a pot stirrer. What might have been sigh

[LindaM]

It is extremely difficult to figure out.

This is the HAL Board - but I am talking about the numbers for ALL MAJOR CRUISE LINES.

Some of them have rather nice wine lists and some of them have very reasonable wine prices.

Some of them charge very high fares and attract a very toney crowd.

But those lines with great lists, great prices, and high fares do not sell any more wine than HAL does.

12 years ago, when several major cruise lines allowed guests to bring their own wine onboard, they were selling the same number of bottles onboard that they are today - less than one per passenger per cruise.

All of us face the same challenges.

 

Why are today's cruise passengers - ON ALL MAJOR CRUISE LINES - purchasing less than one bottle of wine per person per cruise, regardless of selection, prices, or fares?

 

Sorry I do not know how to highlight. Betty explained it to me before, but my brain let it go!! I believe I know the answer to your last question, relating it to my own experience. We have been on 25 cruises and have NEVER bought a bottle of wine. We have bought wine,beer and drinks by the glass---LOTS!! On our 25th cruise, we purchased our first wine package. As much as we love wine, a bottle at dinner wasn't a necessary expense. How much can a person drink on a ship??? If you drink wine at dinner, you are going to be too tired to enjoy the show, or have a drink while watching the show. Then, there is going to a lounge next, to enjoy music after the show, having another drink. I would rather drink in the lounges than at dinner. Next cruise, I think I will get the wine package for the cabin. Don't know what DH will do. He was spoiled.... To reiterate, I believe most people are like me. Wine at dinner isn't a necessary expense, and it might impede enjoyment of the rest of the evening!! I think many cruisers are cruising by the skin of their teeth. All their expendable bucks are on the cruise itself, so they try to economize in other ways. I believe I read her that 10% can't pay their final bill. Then, you have those who look for any reason to remove the tips!! Wine is the last thing these folks are going to spend $$ on!! That is why they are bringing on cases. The main reason we loosened up with our spending is that we are now retired and can spend what we saved. No more saving for retirement, because it's here! I think that's why you see lots of older people taking many cruises. They need to take minimal withdrawels from their 401's. They are the ones buying bottles at dinner!! Just my opinion!!

 

After all of my wordiness, IMHO, people don't buy a bottle of wine at dinner, because it's not a necessary expense. And, maybe (in my case) it would push me over the edge of drinking too much!!

[Sow There]

I've found the exact opposite. I have open dining and eat at tables that are usually 6 to 8 tops. Generally I'm the only one drinking wine. Maybe people are cheap or the wine is to expensive. Either that or they tire of the wine stewards making origami animals, taking picture or standing looking off into space. I understand the Prinsendam is not like that. Its not the usual standard of service for Hal. This has been my experience on many ships so not an anomaly.

 

Having been addicted to cruising since the mid-1980's, and having been a casual wine aficionado for longer than that, my recollections about wine consumption on board a cruise ship include the following:

 

Bottle pricing

 

Back in the day, the wine list prices on cruise lines (including HAL) were never more than double retail for standard labels - lower than the norm for white tablecloth restaurants where triple is the norm. (I'd test the theory by checking Kendal Jackson Vintners Reserve Chard retail at a regular retailer before boarding. Back in the 1980's a KJ Vintners sold for $7-8 at the local wine shop. HAL listed it at $18 to $20. Restaurants in town asked $27-$35.

 

Recent cruise line pricing has crept up to triple, or more, which has encouraged some to bring their own wine on board and others to skip wine and drink beer, or full fledged cocktails.

 

The reduced consumption of wine, then, is simply a result of the pricing strategy.

 

Wine sharing

 

Back in the day it was customary at dinner on a cruise ship that a bottle of wine should be shared among all at the table. That means ordering wine at an 8 top could result in the person (couple) getting only a single glass each per bottle. Normal etiquette back then was that those participating in the sharing would take their turn buying so that, roughly, the cost of wine was shared equally among everyone.

 

This practice naturally caused an increase in wine consumption, back then.

 

These days, with open dining hours and multiple dining venues, folks rarely dine with the same people all 7 nights on a 7 night cruise. Also the idea of sharing the bottle has, unfortunately, become archaic. This change has probably reduced the overall consumption of wine.

Healthy living

 

The constant "healthy living" drumbeat has had a significant impact on sales of alcoholic beverages in general. The "peer pressure" of ordering a drink in a lounge or at dinner has pretty much disappeared (can you say Perrier?) so that wine, which was a popular way for those who were self conscious about declining a hard drink, is no longer a normal alternative.

 

* * *

 

In sum, there really is a reduction in wine consumption caused by a combination of economic, societal and health influences.

[taxmantoo]

In sum, there really is a reduction in wine consumption caused by a combination of economic, societal and health influences.

 

That statement is totally false ... See the following graph that shows quite opposite. The per capita wine consumption has been growing steadily in recent years in the USA. I guess that cruisers do not drink as much wine as the general public or only drink it at home where it is cheaper!

 

[Tampa Girl]

That statement is totally false ... See the following graph that shows quite opposite. The per capita wine consumption has been growing steadily in recent years in the USA. I guess that cruisers do not drink as much wine as the general public or only drink it at home where it is cheaper!

 

 

My understanding of Sow There's post was in relation to wine drinking aboard cruise ships, not wine drinking, generally.

[Tampa Girl]

Can't speak for others, but I've sent HAL an email explaining why we are not happy with the new policy and have booked our next cruise with another line.

 

Dan

 

 

Can't hurt; might help. Thank you. Now . . . if you haven't already signed the petition, please, please . . .

[dogo88]

Can't hurt; might help. Thank you. Now . . . if you haven't already signed the petition, please, please . . .

 

Yup, signed it awhile ago.

 

Maybe a letter is next as Lorekauf suggested since they conveniently ignored my email.

 

Dan