dress code

[fuzzywuzzy]

We have been reading about this debate on and off ever since joining CC.

The topic never seems to lose traction!

One of the most common refrains seems to be along these lines:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie2pies

I don't understand why people even care what other people wear. If you're comfortable with what YOU wear, why worry about other people.

 

Our thoughts: We adhere to the dress guidelines, which appear to be an attempt to hang on to the Old World Style and Comfort of shipboard life, which (we think) is the essence of HAL ships. We are happy with our choice and generally enjoy the formal nights.

 

If nothing else, at the very least it seems the polite and considerate thing to do for our fellow passengers who are enjoying a formal night dinner.

Is it really so difficult? We're not comfortable with the attitude of "it's all about me, and never mind what others think".

 

But that's just us.

If for some reason we don't wish to dress for dinner, we will eat in the Lido or maybe one day we will try a dinner in our cabin.

 

I totally agree. I don't understand the resistance of some to dressing up for formal nights.

 

Why is this so difficult? If people don't wish to comply with the ship's guidelines then why cruise?

[RJ2002]

Thank you for your delightful post. When I read the "debate" posts I always think to myself - what do these same people do when on land and at a restaurant that has a "coat required" sign on the check-in podium ... or a "shirt and shoes required" sign. Do they go in and say "I'm buying the food, I'll dress as I please?"

 

Very few land based restaurants in the US require men to wear a jacket anymore. Those that do are very expensive.

 

Requiring someone to wear shirt and shoes is an entirely different matter.

[OlsSalt]

I totally agree. I don't understand the resistance of some to dressing up for formal nights.

 

Why is this so difficult? If people don't wish to comply with the ship's guidelines then why cruise?

 

Today's lightweight, easy-care packable dressy fabrics with plenty of flex and stretch are as easy to pack and wear as similar casual clothes. Men's tuxedos fall into the same category. Easy care, easy wear but still look marvelous. Bathing suits are the real torture. :eek: Should we eliminate those now too? My long black velvet gown still goes into my suitcase, along with easy wear sparkle tops, black silk pants and skirts. How much easier can it get? Except for DH who only has to pack his tux once.

Edited September 3, 2013 by OlsSalt

[popcan]

Quote:

yes...we are dumbing down daily...at a record pace

 

 

 

I get it that attitudes are drifting more and more towards "doing your own thing".

This is not new; we see it everywhere, not just on cruise ships.

Examples of "me first", entitlement, and instant gratification abound. It's (sadly) a large part of the world we live in now. I suppose my values are too Old School.

I just think that there is a time and place to make a statement about your individuality....and perhaps formal night is not the time.

 

I lay much of the blame for the whole issue on Hal. If they would uniformly enforce the rules, whatever they may be, then we don't have this.

In the meantime, we rely upon consideration and mutual respect for each other.

 

The debate continues.......

Edited September 3, 2013 by popcan

[NoobCruise]

Quote:

yes...we are dumbing down daily...at a record pace

 

 

 

I get it that attitudes are drifting more and more towards "doing your own thing".

This is not new; we see it everywhere, not just on cruise ships.

Examples of "me first", entitlement, and instant gratification abound. It's (sadly) a large part of the world we live in now. I suppose my values are too Old School.

I just think that there is a time and place to make a statement about your individuality....and perhaps formal night is not the time.

 

I lay much of the blame for the whole issue on Hal. If they would uniformly enforce the rules, whatever they may be, then we don't have this.

In the meantime, we rely upon consideration and mutual respect for each other.

 

The debate continues.......

 

 

JMHO but HAL is going to go with what makes money. The trend in society is moving to more casual attire. More and more, people don't want to dress up on vacation, particularly the younger generations. Let's face it. Statistically, *most* retirees are on a fixed income and probably spend less than those still working. As these younger generations become the money-makers and spenders, the cruise lines are going to change their rules to fit their demands, or the new spenders are going to take their money elsewhere. I think the relaxing of the current guidelines is just the beginning of this change. It may be a slow erosion at this point, but it's coming because it's what the majority want and it's easier to change the rules gradually than all of a sudden. The change in the wine rule is a very good example of that. Again JMHO

[RJ2002]

I lay much of the blame for the whole issue on Hal. If they would uniformly enforce the rules, whatever they may be, then we don't have this.

 

Agree with this statement 100%.

 

As long as we continue to see reports on this forum that the suggested dress code for formal night is not being enforced, we will continue to see varying degrees of dress for men - - from slacks and collared shirts, all the way up to tuxedos.

 

I can empathize with someone who is struggling with the decision whether or not to lug dress or formal wear across the country (or world) to only wear it for an hour or so, two times on a 7 day cruise - - knowing that only a portion of those in attendance at formal night might be following the suggested guidelines.

 

Edit: also agree with NoobCruise's comments above. Demographics and attitudes are changing, and HAL, like all companies, is transitioning.

Edited September 3, 2013 by RJ2002

[OlsSalt]

Sailing on the old Discovery which had a predominantly UK crowd, people wanted to dress up for dinner. No one forced them. Finding a cruise line where the passengers find pleasure in this tradition is the answer, not asking the cruise company to inflict its will against the wishes of those who don't care.

 

Even Crystal did not enforce their legendary dress codes as a gentleman wore shorts and shirt every single night When we asked the Maitre D' about this, his answer was he was a long-time passenger and they let him do what ever he wanted. However, virtually all the other Crystal passengers obviously enjoyed dressing up.

Edited September 3, 2013 by OlsSalt

[pawsplus]

I'm about to go on my first cruise, so I haven't actually lived it yet LOL, but I'm not a very formal person and at first my mom and I were planning to avoid formal nights like the plague. But then we rethought it. I mean, why not? After all, it's a cruise--might as well do "cruisey" things, right? So we're packing some dressy stuff and will venture out formally at least once. :) Will report back!

[NoobCruise]

yes...we are dumbing down daily...at a record pace

 

I think equating intelligence with attire is incredibly ignorant. I think region has a whole lot more to do with it. Come to California and walk through the research labs at places like Stanford and UCSF. You'll find many of the brightest MD PhDs who are doing ground-breaking research wearing shorts and birkenstocks (I know because I worked there). My FIL is currently going through chemo at UCSF and his cancer specialist is covered with tattoos and piercings - and he's one of the best. Walk through the offices of most tech companies here and you'll find the best techies and engineers in jeans or shorts and tshirts. The days of the 3 piece suite are disappearing.

 

Equating intelligence with attire is just dumb.

Edited September 3, 2013 by NoobCruise

[RJ2002]

I'm about to go on my first cruise, so I haven't actually lived it yet LOL, but I'm not a very formal person and at first my mom and I were planning to avoid formal nights like the plague. But then we rethought it. I mean, why not? After all, it's a cruise--might as well do "cruisey" things, right? So we're packing some dressy stuff and will venture out formally at least once. :) Will report back!

 

Congratulations. You are doing the right thing. The experience in the MDR on formal night is really not all that different from other evenings - - some people are just more dressed up! Sometimes they will place white fabric covers on the chairs, sometimes not.

 

You have paid for the full cruise experience, and should be able to enjoy the MDR every night. No need to be relegated to a cafeteria or eating in your cabin simply because you are not fully dressed to the "nines".

[iancal]

NoodCruise...could not agree with you more. That is how it is where I live and in the environment in which I worked....unless of course we were visiting clients who had a more formal dress code. When we moved west 30 years ago we were surprised to attend at funeral homes etc and see the majority of people dressed in a casual fashion, or with jackets and open neck shirts. It was not like that in the east.

 

Many people are past the pretense stage and see no reason to dress for aspirational reasons. There are some who enjoy dressing up and more power to them. But just expect to see more and more casual clothes when you exit the MDR after second sitting on formal nights...especially in the Caribbean or Alaska.

 

When I first started my job in the IT industry the company that I worked for had a hard and fast dress rule. Suit (sportsjacket was a no no), white shirt (only white), conservative tie/bow tie, and a fedora when travelling outside the office. Times change, we need to change with them. And most people do.

Edited September 3, 2013 by iancal

[popcan]

JMHO but HAL is going to go with what makes money. The trend in society is moving to more casual attire. More and more, people don't want to dress up on vacation, particularly the younger generations. Let's face it. Statistically, *most* retirees are on a fixed income and probably spend less than those still working. As these younger generations become the money-makers and spenders, the cruise lines are going to change their rules to fit their demands, or the new spenders are going to take their money elsewhere. I think the relaxing of the current guidelines is just the beginning of this change. It may be a slow erosion at this point, but it's coming because it's what the majority want and it's easier to change the rules gradually than all of a sudden. The change in the wine rule is a very good example of that. Again JMHO

 

 

Just for the record, I think you are correct.

 

However; statistically, more than 12,000 people are turning 65 every day in the USA alone. That trend continues for a bit yet, as the Boomers gradually call it a day. HAL understands the numbers far better than you or I, and they will walk on the edge as long as they can, collecting the cash from young and old like, until they are compelled to commit by the paying customer.

 

Who knows, it may become fashionable to dress up again. We see so many of the fads from the 60's, 70's, and 80's being recycled today!

[Wakepatrol]

Quote:

yes...we are dumbing down daily...at a record pace

 

 

 

I get it that attitudes are drifting more and more towards "doing your own thing".

This is not new; we see it everywhere, not just on cruise ships.

Examples of "me first", entitlement, and instant gratification abound. It's (sadly) a large part of the world we live in now. I suppose my values are too Old School.

I just think that there is a time and place to make a statement about your individuality....and perhaps formal night is not the time.

 

I lay much of the blame for the whole issue on Hal. If they would uniformly enforce the rules, whatever they may be, then we don't have this.

In the meantime, we rely upon consideration and mutual respect for each other.

 

The debate continues.......

 

 

Great post! I love your avatar as well. Love my Golden Buddies:)

[nana51]

Since many people have used the claim "it's my cruise I'll dress the way I want" How about HAL cooks the food but serves it on cafeteria lunchroom trays? Also the waiters can wear what they want. Forget all the nice tablecloths and table settings. You are still getting the food. Also the service would be good, just not so fancy. I bet most people would say "Hey that's not what I paid for". If you want the nice service and all that goes with it, dress nicely, otherwise stay in the lido. Although the servers there also dress very nice.

[iancal]

There is a huge difference between employees and customers..

 

Employees are there to work. Customers make a choice-and there are lots of choices in the vacation marketplace.

 

It is entirely possible to dress neatly but not have any interest whatsoever in playing Mr. and Mrs. Dress Up on formal nights.

 

There seems to be an attitude with some that if you are not dressed to code then you must be dressed in flip flops, cut off jeans or dirty jeans, and t's or muscle shirts. Not to mention social position.

Edited September 4, 2013 by iancal

[Wakepatrol]

There is a huge difference between employees and customers..

 

Employees are there to work. Customers make a choice-and there are lots of choices in the vacation marketplace.

 

It is entirely possible to dress neatly but not have any interest whatsoever in playing Mr. and Mrs. Dress Up on formal nights.

 

There seems to be an attitude with some that if you are not dressed to code then you must be dressed in flip flops, cut off jeans or dirty jeans, and t's or muscle shirts. Not to mention social position.

 

But there are passengers who slip by in track suits,dirty jeans, wife beaters and ball caps . Yes I know they're completely clueless, but how should Hal deal with them?

[iancal]

That is entirely up to HAL's on board management.

 

Customer's will make a buying decision on HAL-the condition of the ships, entertainment, and all the other shipboard related decisions. At the end of the day this is entirely a HAL management issue.

[popcan]

At the end of the day this is entirely a HAL management issue.

 

 

Well, maybe not entirely.

 

There is some social responsibility, common sense, and respect for others to be bourne by each of us as well, don't you think?

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but when you read the guidelines for dress during formal dinner nights, and deliberately choose not to follow them, isn't that saying something about you? I'm guessing HAL management did not pack your suitcase.

 

I am reminded of the old adage;

Never try to teach a pig to whistle.

It's a waste of your time, plus it annoys the pig.

 

As the world changes, sometimes we don't know which we are: the whistler or the pig.

 

I include myself in there too - If I'm not willing to change with the times, maybe I become the pig! lol.

[chrispb]

But there are passengers who slip by in track suits,dirty jeans, wife beaters and ball caps . Yes I know they're completely clueless, but how should Hal deal with them?

 

Is it only HAL that attracts these people? I certainly haven't seen anyone remotely dressed like that on cruises I've been on.:cool:

[Wakepatrol]

Is it only HAL that attracts these people? I certainly haven't seen anyone remotely dressed like that on cruises I've been on.:cool:

 

 

Yes this is a tired old line.

 

If you didn't see it,it never happened. There's a few posters like that.

 

I'm not talking the masses,but people report back seeing this on these boards and in the reviews.

[b_cruise]

One of the posters said you can order room service from the dining room menu? As I am assuming lobster is only served on formal nights, can u order it through room service? My husband does not own a suit and we will not be making that purchase for a couple dinners therefore I have to figure out a way to get lobster, lololol!!

 

I total understand both sides of this debate!!

 

I personally, will not go to formal night because I would just feel under dressed. They maybe should have a double tier system so u can get the same meals. One sitting for people who wear tuxes and suits and another seating for 'smart casual".. Just a thought.

[taxmantoo]

They maybe should have a double tier system so u can get the same meals. One sitting for people who wear tuxes and suits and another seating for 'smart casual".. Just a thought.

 

They already have a two-tier system for that exact reason. One is called the "Main Dining Room" and the other is called the "Lido". ;)

[Vict0riann]

But there are passengers who slip by in track suits,dirty jeans, wife beaters and ball caps . Yes I know they're completely clueless, but how should Hal deal with them?

 

What are wife beaters? I know what drives my DH crazy is people eating (sitting at a table, that is) in baseball caps! Maybe there's such a thing as cap-wearer-beaters and he could wear that.:)

[waASPCrusier]

They already have a two-tier system for that exact reason. One is called the "Main Dining Room" and the other is called the "Lido". ;)

 

can't get the exact same menu in the Lido..you can get some of it, but not all.

[RuthC]

One of the posters said you can order room service from the dining room menu? As I am assuming lobster is only served on formal nights, can u order it through room service?

Yes, you can order your lobster to your cabin, via room service. Every cabin is allowed to order off the dining room menu; just be sure to place your order within the allotted time frame. You can have your dinner delivered at a time of your choosing.