6 year old boy drowns on Carnival ship.,

[negn]

Can not imagine the guilt the poor 10 y.o. brother must be feeling My sincere sympathy to the family

My other thought is why chance it The pool is 4 1/2 feet deep, much too deep for any small child. That is why they have the kiddy pools.

[Sheils65]

All of the people that put the blame solely on the parents.......unbelievable!!! Were any of you there? Did any of you see this? Did any of you partake in trying to save this poor child?

 

To assume what you think are the facts are appauling. I am not perfect by any means but now a days people lose sight of how to come together and have some compassion in the face of tragedy. I see too many people with a lack of compassion and empathy.

 

Again, as I stated previously in this thread, "My heart goes out to the Family and anyone who has witnessed this tragedy and may they find peace soon."

[Sparkygirl]

I wish I had found this thread earlier. It's a lot more tame than that other thread. :rolleyes:

 

At any rate, I'm going to repost here what I posted there because I think it's important.

 

This is a horrific thing to happen. Oh my word....I don't even know what I would do. My heart goes out to those families.

 

I wanted to just interject something into this thread. I think people need to keep in mind that drowning is not always this wild carnal fight for air that we see in movies. A lot of times drowning is very subtle. Growing up right next to the Pacific Ocean, I've seen lifeguards dive into the water in the ocean after children who did not appear to be drowning and people who were close to the child (including the parents) were completely shocked.

 

So that I do not have to write a long explanation of why drowning doesn't always look like drowning, allow me to just share an article with you.

 

This details a very good example of what I'm talking about. You may have seen this article before in some shape or form but it doesn't hurt to review it again!

 

Rather than passing judgment on these parents since we don't know the exact circumstances, we need to educate ourselves because just watching kids swim is apparently not enough...you need to know what drowning looks like so you can detect it and help your child or someone else's when necessary.

 

http://www.wivb.com/news/buffalo/drowning-signs-arent-like-the-movies

 

By MARIO VITTONE

Slate

 

The new captain jumped from the deck, fully dressed, and sprinted through the water.

 

A former lifeguard, he kept his eyes on his victim as he headed straight for the couple swimming between their anchored sportfisher and the beach.

 

“I think he thinks you’re drowning,” the husband said to his wife.

 

They had been splashing each other and she had screamed — but now they were just standing, neck-deep on the sand bar.

 

“We’re fine; what is he doing?” she asked, a little annoyed.

 

“We’re fine!” the husband yelled, waving him off, but his captain kept swimming hard.

 

“Move!” he barked as he sprinted between the stunned boat owners. Directly behind them, not 10 feet away, their 9-year-old daughter was drowning.

 

Safely above the surface in the arms of the captain, she burst into tears, crying, “Daddy!”

 

Until that tearful “Daddy,” she hadn’t made a sound. How did this captain know — from 50 feet away — what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10?

 

Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television.

 

If you spend time on or near the water (hint: that’s all of us) then you should make sure that you and your crew know what to look for whenever people enter the water.

 

DROWNING RESPONSE

 

As a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, I wasn’t surprised at all by this story. Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event. The waving, splashing, and yelling that dramatic conditioning (television) prepares us to look for is rarely seen in real life.

 

The Instinctive Drowning Response — so named by Francesco A. Pia, a water safety specialist, is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind.

 

» See a video of the Instinctive Drowning Response «

 

To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the No. 2 cause of accidental death in children 15 and under, just behind vehicle accidents. Of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so within 25 yards of a parent or other adult.

 

Drowning does not look like drowning — Dr. Pia, in an article in the Coast Guard’s On Scene magazine, described the Instinctive Drowning Response like this:

• Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. The respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled before speech occurs.

• Drowning people’s mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale and call out for help. When the drowning people’s mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water.

• Drowning people cannot wave for help. Natural instinct forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. This permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.

• Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.

• From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response, the person’s body remains upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.

 

WHAT TO LOOK FOR

This doesn’t mean that a person that is yelling for help and thrashing isn’t in real trouble. They are experiencing aquatic distress. Not always present before the Instinctive Drowning Response, aquatic distress doesn’t last long — but unlike true drowning, these victims can still assist in their own rescue. They can grab lifelines, throw rings, etc.

 

Look for these other signs of drowning when people are in the water:

• Head low in the water, mouth at water level

• Head tilted back with mouth open

• Eyes glassy and empty, unable to focus

• Eyes closed

• Hair over forehead or eyes

• Not using legs; body vertical

• Hyperventilating or gasping

• Trying to swim in a particular direction but not making headway

• Trying to roll over on the back

• Appearing to be climbing an invisible ladder

 

So if a crew member falls overboard and everything looks OK — don’t be too sure. Sometimes the most common indication that someone is drowning is that they don’t look like they’re drowning. They may just look like they are treading water and staring up at the boat deck.

 

One way to be sure? Ask them, “Are you all right?”

 

If they can answer at all — they probably are. If they return a blank stare, you may have less than 30 seconds to get to them.

 

And parents: Children playing in the water make noise. When they get quiet, you get to them and find out why.

 

This! We were at Great Wolf Lodge when a 6 year old drowned. Children slip below the water it is not dramatic. In a crowded pool with splashing it would be very hard to notice the child. For those with children make sure an adult is within arms reach of your child at all times. Yes, that means get in the water!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[amwick]

My heart goes out to the family of this child. I came back here to Cruise Critic to read the reactions of people who were familiar with cruising. In reading the threads I have learned that a drowning can be quiet and go unnoticed very easily. I would like to thank everyone that pointed this out.

 

Again, my deepest condolences to this child's family.

[Warm Breezes]

:( Personally, I don't think children under the age of 12 or 13 should even be allowed on a cruise ship. I know this is a strong opinion, but FAR TOO MANY THINGS can go wrong and not nearly enough eyes to help prevent it from happening. I took my teenage girls several years ago, and I stayed worried about my 13 year old! I can't imagine trying to keep track of a young one with so many available pitfalls.

 

Wow...I find it sad that you feel that way. We cruised with our kids 7 times while they were under the age of 13 and never had any issues. What we did have were great family vacations. Having said that I did not take a vacation from my children while on board, but I had vacations with my children. There are no more "pitfalls" on a ship than anywhere else in the world you may choose to vacation and accidents can happen anywhere at anytime no matter how diligent of a parent you are....even at home. This was a tragic accident and my prayers for peace and comfort are with the family and those who witnessed this horrific incident.

[shelly11]

So sad for this family.

 

I haven't read all of the posts but just wanted to say that I've seen kids younger than this unsupervised in the pool. I don't know what happened to this child but everyone should be sure their kid is supervised no matter the age. a teen or adult can drown too.

[bean24]

Just want to add my sympathy to the poor family who is going through this tragedy right now.

[ladybugpug]

Such a sad event. I read a good many posts on the Carnival board and it really did get very ugly. So much blame for the parents! I would reserve judgement until more facts are known. I am a parent and I consider myself a good parent..but I have been distracted like most parents at times. Most of us are lucky and that moment of distraction doesn't have tragic consequences.

 

Sometimes I think people point the blame finger at other parents because they want to believe that the parents of the child must have been neglectful. No parent wants to accept that awful horrible events can happen even to responsible parents because that would mean it could happen to them too.

[dcollette]

My heart breaks for this family. Having been a lifeguard, I can tell you it doesn't take long for a child to drown. I have had to jump in to save a child with his/her parents standing in the water, so you can't say the parents were or weren't there. Two things people forget, any person can drown in mere inches of water (it only has to be deep enough to cover your nose and mouth) and drowning victims generally slip quietly under the water without anyone noticing. We all know how busy ship pools are, and it can be difficult in the best of circumstances to keep direct eye contact with your children at all times. It only takes 3 minutes without air to expire and that gets sped up when you inhale water when trying to gasp for air, which your body will instinctually try to do.

 

This is very sad. The parents/family will be blaming themselves for the rest of their lives for this. Perhaps they weren't as vigilant as they should have been, but we weren't there-- they also could have been standing or sitting close by. It can happen to anyone. Even though my lifeguard days are far behind me, I still scan any body of water, pool or otherwise, as if I am on duty whenever I go swimming. There are always people who do not watch their little ones as closely as they should, but there are also people who do watch closely and their children can still drown.

 

Personally, I love the water and am always in the water with my children (even those who are in their teens). That's just me.

 

I will pray for the family of that little angel. Nothing is more sad than the loss of a child.

[Mrs. Squirrel]

We have an above ground pool. When my DS turned 9, my husband and I backed off of our rule that he had to have one of us in the pool with him at all times to instead having one of us on the pool deck when he was swimming. In light of the drowning signs information posted by Cruisecritiquer, we're going back to the old rule. If a child can drown that fast, there is no way we could get to DS quick enough being on the deck, as the deck is not connected to the pool. Thank you for posting that info!

 

As a mom, I can't imagine a more devastating tragedy than to have to bury your child. My heart and prayers go out to the family.

[tempura]

The media coverage of this tragedy has been... interesting.

 

Carnival: "To the best of our knowledge it is the first time a child has drowned aboard one of our ships."

 

Really? To the best of their knowledge? It's possible that a corpse was fished out of a Carnival swimming pool that they had no knowledge of? Even more reason to stay far, far away.

 

Media statement: "Phone numbers listed for Hunter's parents rang busy or unanswered Monday."

 

I WONDER WHY. What the $&^% were you calling them for? This is a more morbid version of the idiot who pulls up next to the winning jockey of the Kentucky Derby, perched atop a horse, and tries to interview them. Every year, I hope the horse throws them off.

 

Someone who knew the kid: "He had a bright future in entertainment. The thing I found most beautiful about him was that he knew how to move his ears."

 

I had to check again to make sure I wasn't on The Onion. I suppose anything is ripe for a joke these days.

[lanceholt]

I think the reason people keep blaming the parents is because we go on cruises and see so many unsupervised kids. Kids splashing in the hot tubs, running down the halls screaming, pushing all the buttons in the elevators, climbing on railings and throwing things overboard, etc. with no parents to be seen. Many parents tend to think it is a vacation away from their kids too. Hoping this will make other parents supervise their kids a little closer.

 

I feel bad for the family and all the people who had to witness this.

 

I agree but this is the case not only on a cruise but in public everywhere. Children are allowed to behave in ways that are just plain rude and disruptive, toward their parents and toward the public. Civility is just gone in parenting. I hate to sound harsh but really I don't understand how some parents can stand their own kids out in public or at home.

[cruisecritiquer]

Such a sad event. I read a good many posts on the Carnival board and it really did get very ugly. So much blame for the parents! I would reserve judgement until more facts are known. I am a parent and I consider myself a good parent..but I have been distracted like most parents at times. Most of us are lucky and that moment of distraction doesn't have tragic consequences.

 

Sometimes I think people point the blame finger at other parents because they want to believe that the parents of the child must have been neglectful. No parent wants to accept that awful horrible events can happen even to responsible parents because that would mean it could happen to them too.

 

I think you are exactly right. It is our need to feel in control of the situation.

[3DBeach]

I think the reason people keep blaming the parents is because we go on cruises and see so many unsupervised kids. Kids splashing in the hot tubs, running down the halls screaming, pushing all the buttons in the elevators, climbing on railings and throwing things overboard, etc. with no parents to be seen. Many parents tend to think it is a vacation away from their kids too. Hoping this will make other parents supervise their kids a little closer.

 

I feel bad for the family and all the people who had to witness this.

 

 

Perfectly said!

My boys are 5 & 7 and lots of times i feel i may be being too high-strung or too over protective/strict...stories like this make you realize anything can happen at any moment even if you're right there.

 

My heart goes out to this poor family as well as everyone who witnessed it as well. Very, very sad situation.

[Momofcandk]

Perfectly said!

My boys are 5 & 7 and lots of times i feel i may be being too high-strung or too over protective/strict...stories like this make you realize anything can happen at any moment even if you're right there.

 

My heart goes out to this poor family as well as everyone who witnessed it as well. Very, very sad situation.

 

U r never being too overprotective!!!!! They r your children n u have every right to hover!!! I have always done it

[newmexicoNita]

HELLO ALL... anyone on AOL would have seen this (Monday 10/14) . A 6 year old boy drowned in a pool onboard the Carnival Victory this weekend..he was in the pool with his 10 old brother.....very sorry this happend BUT... what I want to know is....why was he in this pool, and where were his parents....they should have been watching him....I know you can't watch a child every second....but if they both were there, then one of them should have kept an eye on them....I know this sounds bad, but, I have seen too many good folks not watching their kids while on board...they figure there are enough people around, that nothing will happen.....well, it is not the other peoples job to watch your kids,,,,,I do feel sorry for the family, and I hope other people will heed this warning about their own children...

 

now you can flame me.....I really don't care.....this is how I feel....

 

jus' me....jim.....

 

sympathy goes out to the family and let's hope this is an eye opener for others, but in defense of the parents: we don't know the details, the parents might have been right there on lounge chairs, the little boy might have been a decent swimmer and it isn't like they were sitting on a beach with huge waves. On the other hand, I don't know how many times I have seen kids running around on cruise ships and yes, in the pool, unattended. I do not know the entire story, nor do the rest of us. I think we need to refrain from judging. You are right, you can't watch your kids all the time and accidents do happen. If only we could prevent our kids from ever getting hurt, wouldn't that we a gift from God?

 

Now, I haven't read the other responses, but I doubt anyone will flame you, I hope not, you are just showing compassion which is fine. I just think we should not be too quick to judge.

[dclark]

If you have ever sailed CCL, you know their ships are crowded and pools can be packed. I have seen where the pools are so crowded that it is impossible to swim and kids and teens (ignoring the signs posted) are jumping in. There are a lot of things that can cause a person to drown.

With CCL's crowded pool area, it was just a matter of time before something like this happened.

[GailnBrad]

The bottom line is...Parents need to be NEXT to their child at all times in any body of water...not more than an arms length away. Some may disagree....but if that is the case...a drowning is all but impossible. They need not be laying on the loungers or assigning a sibling to watch smaller ones. It's that simple...whether on a cruise ship, backyard pool or lake...

[newmexicoNita]

What don't you get? Don't you know every poster on any forum is a better parent than any person onboard a ship with a child?

 

I'm still waiting for the blame to be assigned to Carnival - kind of like it did in the HuffPo comments...

 

excellent post and so true. We just have to realize things happen, some are not good things.

 

Nita

[Laszlo]

My son is a part time lifeguard at the Y. He has worked for them for 4 years. He's 19 and in college. They have an annual tri state spring meeting. One of the things they do is watch security footage of drowning events. Yes its a bit morbid but they learn from it. You would not believe how fast someone can go under and sink to the bottom. You would also not believe how easy it is not to see someone who has drowned. This is mainly due to the way light reflects off the pool surface. Many of the drownings happened with a pool full of people and 2-3 guards watching the pool.

[HCTiger9704]

8 Quiet Signs of Someone Drowning

 

Most people do not know the real signs of somebody drowning unless the person is drowning like they are in a Hollywood movie.

 

It is a sad thing that happen but it may not be the parents fault or anybody else's fault.

[HCTiger9704]

Carnival: "To the best of our knowledge it is the first time a child has drowned aboard one of our ships."

 

I am guessing that the lawyer for Carnival came up with that statement.

[Zeno]

This topic is rather personal for me - I nearly drowned when I was about 8 years old. An alert life guard saved my life.

 

The scenario - very crowded swimming area (roped off section of a lake at a kids' summer camp). Not enough life guards for the number of kids in the water (I was VERY lucky one of the 2 life guards for around 100 kids spotted the problem). As a "safety" measure we all had to swim with a buddy (assigned randomly and the dumbest idea ever). I was a pretty good swimmer, accustomed to swimming in water over my head. My "buddy" was a little fool who thought it would be "fun" to suddenly jump on my head. Then to make it worse she got into a real panic and was soon in trouble herself (we were over our heads). She tried to climb on top of me. Luckily some survival instinct cut in and I was able to struggle away from her. No-one near us realized we were in trouble (probably just assumed we were "horsing around" - luckily the alert life guard glanced our way and decided something was up - dove in and rescued us. I was sick for days. To this day I will NEVER swim within touching distance of other people (except my husband). I don't fear water - it was the "little fool" not water that nearly drowned me. My experience illustrates how VERY easy it is to drown in a relatively small area with lots of people around.

 

Who do I blame: 1. The summer camp - for inadequate supervision and the stupid "buddy" idea (I would have been MUCH safer on my own - since I was a cautious child - not a risk taker). 2. The parents of the "little fool" for NOT teaching their child that shoving someone under water is NOT appropriate water "play". (I knew it wasn't from the time I was first allowed in water.) My parents' only mistake was trusting that the camp would have appropriate water supervision.

I am grateful that in spite of doing her job in the worst conditions "my" lifeguard was alert and responsible.

[Laszlo]

One of the 1st thing a guard learns is the primal instinct of a drowning person takes over. Two years ago my son watched as a guard literally had to knock a guy out just to help him, very large man who could hardly swim in water over his head

[luvlake]

The one thing I have not read on this thread is the importance of life jackets. These are a tremendous source of water safety.

 

I live on a lake and our boat dock is in 17 foot waters. No one is allowed off my dock without a life jacket. Even my 15 year old grand daughter knows the rule and after a few conversations knows I will not allow her in the water without one. Then fatigue is not a factor.

 

Every beach we go to you will find almost all young children wearing life jackets. Maybe cruise lines could furnish these like they do beach towels. Then the parents would not have to worry about suit case room!