NORO on Westerdam? We didn't know.

[Hlitner]

Bruce, We think all you say is correct, but it still does not take away from the fact that 600+ Noro cases on a single cruise is newsworthy. And we do think there is a major difference between Noro at home and Noro at sea. As home, if you hear about a Noro outbreak you can take some precautions such as not going out as often, avoiding restaurants, the mall, etc. But on a cruise we are all "stuck on the same boat" so to speak and there is no escape. Sure, we can all increase our onboard precautions and the crew can work their fingers to the bone scrubbing every surface on the ship. But we are all still trapped in that confined space and there is no escape. We think the smart folks go about their daily cruise activities (washing hands more often and never touching their face) while praying to King Neptune to "please don't let it be me." Others cannot help but obsess on the virus and find themselves staying confined in their cabins, avoiding any public contact, and having a miserable time (even though they are not sick).

 

So the Noro saga goes on and we all know this will not be the last such incident. Unfortunately, nothing is going to change until some drug company develops an effective Noro vaccine.

 

Hank

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce, We think all you say is correct, but it still does not take away from the fact that 600+ Noro cases on a single cruise is newsworthy. And we do think there is a major difference between Noro at home and Noro at sea. As home, if you hear about a Noro outbreak you can take some precautions such as not going out as often, avoiding restaurants, the mall, etc. But on a cruise we are all "stuck on the same boat" so to speak and there is no escape. Sure, we can all increase our onboard precautions and the crew can work their fingers to the bone scrubbing every surface on the ship. But we are all still trapped in that confined space and there is no escape. We think the smart folks go about their daily cruise activities (washing hands more often and never touching their face) while praying to King Neptune to "please don't let it be me." Others cannot help but obsess on the virus and find themselves staying confined in their cabins, avoiding any public contact, and having a miserable time (even though they are not sick).

 

So the Noro saga goes on and we all know this will not be the last such incident. Unfortunately, nothing is going to change until some drug company develops an effective Noro vaccine.

 

Hank

 

Things could change much more quickly if someone could teach adult Americans how to properly wash their hands after wiping their butts, and not to behave like animals when they eat.

I am "trapped" on a ship for 9 months every year, exposed to all the same things everyone else is. But I choose to be clean and careful. I have never contracted NLV in 37 years on ships - with people sick all around me.

 

Are you saying that we need to scare the public with these dire news stories in order to make them behave in a civilized manner when they travel?

[Hlitner]

Things could change much more quickly if someone could teach adult Americans how to properly wash their hands after wiping their butts, and not to behave like animals when they eat.

I am "trapped" on a ship for 9 months every year, exposed to all the same things everyone else is. But I choose to be clean and careful. I have never contracted NLV in 37 years on ships - with people sick all around me.

 

Are you saying that we need to scare the public with these dire news stories in order to make them behave in a civilized manner when they travel?

 

Again we have to bow down to your wisdom (we truly agree with all you say). DW and I do wash our hands very often (especially when we travel) and have never had noro after more then 3 1/2 years as cruise passengers. But it sure would be helpful if your cruise line (and all the others) would redesign the existing public restroom doors to be completely hands free. We do see this on some new ships, but it is not the norm on a majority of vessels. And yes, we go through all the right steps including using a paper towel (or real towel on HAL when paper towels are missing) to open the door.

 

The new automatic hand washers (on at least some HAL ships) are pretty neat but we noticed they are underused. One day, on the Veendam, I had my hands stuck in that device and a lady stopped and wanted to know what I was doing. She told me that she thought those things were trash cans!

 

A few days later, while we were docked in Port Everglades we happened to meet some employees of the company that put those devices on the Veendam (they were servicing the units while in port). I mentioned this to one of the guys and he was very interested in that observation and said that perhaps they need to modify the outward appearance.

 

Hank

[Viva_la_Vida]

Nursing homes, day cares, and schools have noro outbreaks on a regular basis, yet most people continue to send their loved ones to these places.

 

To the original poster, if you had known about the noro, would you have not boarded the ship and forfeited your cruise fare?

 

Roz

 

If that were me in the original poster's shoes, I would have been more conscious of what I touched, used, etc. if I had known that any Noro had happened on the cruise before, regardless of whether or not the cases were over the threshold of "officially reportable" or not! I agree with OP that the wording in the letter is somewhat deceptive. At the same time, I recognize the letter is truthful, since the outbreak was less than 3%. Transparency and honesty is best. From what has been posted here, think HAL's practices to keep everyone healthy go beyond what Celebrity does. We were allowed self service on the buffet right away.

[julia]

The product that we use is Spray Nine. It is readily found in large home stores like Home Depot (I bought some 3 days ago there) and automotive stores also.

 

I checked its website and this is what it said:

 

Kills viruses and bacteria:

H1N1 Swine Flu, Influenza A2 Virus, Common Flu A2 Virus, Avian Flu H3N2 Virus, Salmonella Choleraesuis, Escherichia coli (E.coli), Hepatitis C Virus, Rhinovirus Type 37, Norwalk Virus, Herpes Simplex I and II, Poliovirus Type I, Rotavirus, MRSA, Streptococcus pyogenes, Shigella dysenteriae.

 

What I really like also that you only need to leave it on the surface for 45 seconds for it to disinfect. The one downside is that it is a liquid, but we just put a small spray bottle in our carry on and use it and a larger spray bottle in our checked luggage.

 

Thank you for posting this product... hopefully this will be beneficial to many.

 

I personally feel that airplanes are the MAJOR culprit for propagating most of these contagions. Planes have such quick turn-around times, and are simply not cleaned adequately (much less disinfected!) between flights. When you couple that with crowded airports (handrails, chairs) and the dirty taxis, trains or buses used to get to a cruise ship, it's no wonder folks arrive and soon fall ill.

 

It's sad that the cruise industry appears to be the poster child for noro... they are fighting an overwhelming tide of germs that board their ships each and every week. :(

[RuthC]

If that were me in the original poster's shoes, I would have been more conscious of what I touched, used, etc. if I had known that any Noro had happened on the cruise before, regardless of whether or not the cases were over the threshold of "officially reportable" or not!

Taking precautions against noro has to come under the heading of "universal precautions"---that is, one has to assume that the virus is there, and protect oneself against it. Surfaces need to be cleaned, as do hands. Keeping your hands away from your face is one of the best ways to avoid it. Noro germs can't harm you if they don't get inside you.

[RJ2002]

I personally feel that airplanes are the MAJOR culprit for propagating most of these contagions. Planes have such quick turn-around times, and are simply not cleaned adequately (much less disinfected!) between flights. :(

 

I have read that the fold-down tray table can be the dirtiest surface on the plane. Yuk!

[sail7seas]

The product that we use is Spray Nine. It is readily found in large home stores like Home Depot (I bought some 3 days ago there) and automotive stores also.

 

I checked its website and this is what it said:

 

Kills viruses and bacteria:

H1N1 Swine Flu, Influenza A2 Virus, Common Flu A2 Virus, Avian Flu H3N2 Virus, Salmonella Choleraesuis, Escherichia coli (E.coli), Hepatitis C Virus, Rhinovirus Type 37, Norwalk Virus, Herpes Simplex I and II, Poliovirus Type I, Rotavirus, MRSA, Streptococcus pyogenes, Shigella dysenteriae.

 

What I really like also that you only need to leave it on the surface for 45 seconds for it to disinfect. The one downside is that it is a liquid, but we just put a small spray bottle in our carry on and use it and a larger spray bottle in our checked luggage.

 

Thanks so much. Very helpful info.

 

[sail7seas]

Thank you for posting this product... hopefully this will be beneficial to many.

 

I personally feel that airplanes are the MAJOR culprit for propagating most of these contagions. Planes have such quick turn-around times, and are simply not cleaned adequately (much less disinfected!) between flights. When you couple that with crowded airports (handrails, chairs) and the dirty taxis, trains or buses used to get to a cruise ship, it's no wonder folks arrive and soon fall ill.

 

It's sad that the cruise industry appears to be the poster child for noro... they are fighting an overwhelming tide of germs that board their ships each and every week. :(

 

 

There is likely just as much Noro in hotels, even those outside U.S. :rolleyes: , but they don't get headline news because who knows how many cases at any one time. People come and go continuously from hotels, they don't often chat up as much with each other as on a cruise ship and many folks who succumb to it have no idea that it is Noro. Many possibly think they have 'some kind of stomach bug' or blame last night's dinner for food poisoning. NO hotel is ever going to make any effort to discover how many cases have passed through their front (or back) door.

 

[startwin]

There is likely just as much Noro in hotels, even those outside U.S. :rolleyes: , but they don't get headline news because who knows how many cases at any one time. People come and go continuously from hotels, they don't often chat up as much with each other as on a cruise ship and many folks who succumb to it have no idea that it is Noro. Many possibly think they have 'some kind of stomach bug' or blame last night's dinner for food poisoning. NO hotel is ever going to make any effort to discover how many cases have passed through their front (or back) door.

 

 

Absolutely true. We currently have nursing homes closed to visitors because of Noro... it is so common anywhere where there are static people, and our hospital regularly shuts down areas due to it. It would be a death knell for a hotel to report Noro.:rolleyes: I am as cautious when I stay in a hotel as I am onboard a ship. Wash frequently, clean everything I touch, especially the TV remote and phone.

[sherilyn70]

If that were me in the original poster's shoes, I would have been more conscious of what I touched, used, etc. if I had known that any Noro had happened on the cruise before, regardless of whether or not the cases were over the threshold of "officially reportable" or not! I agree with OP that the wording in the letter is somewhat deceptive. At the same time, I recognize the letter is truthful, since the outbreak was less than 3%. Transparency and honesty is best. From what has been posted here, think HAL's practices to keep everyone healthy go beyond what Celebrity does. We were allowed self service on the buffet right away.

So your saying you normally wouldn't wash your hands or keep areas clean? You shouldn't be modifying your habits because you know someone was sick last week, you should always be practicing these habits and aware of germs in public places.

Edited February 1, 2014 by sherilyn70

[Viva_la_Vida]

Obviously not, that's demeaning and gross! I might use gloves at the buffet though.

[regnig]

The product that we use is Spray Nine. It is readily found in large home stores like Home Depot (I bought some 3 days ago there) and automotive stores also.

I checked its website and this is what it said:

Kills viruses and bacteria:

H1N1 Swine Flu, Influenza A2 Virus, Common Flu A2 Virus, Avian Flu H3N2 Virus, Salmonella Choleraesuis, Escherichia coli (E.coli), Hepatitis C Virus, Rhinovirus Type 37, Norwalk Virus, Herpes Simplex I and II, Poliovirus Type I, Rotavirus, MRSA, Streptococcus pyogenes, Shigella dysenteriae.

.................

 

Spray Nine is one of the greatest cleaning products on the market. Sherwin Williams carries it and I believe it’s about $7 for a 40oz (aprox) spray bottle. We use it not only to clean bathrooms and other areas inside but it does a wonderful job in cleaning our vinyl outdoors furniture, all the white vinyl cladding on the house, etc. One word of warning - do use gloves as the stuff is not gentle on the skin.

 

We applaud HAL for their 48 hours of “Code Orange” on all their sailing as it really seems to help. Additionally since HAL’s Lido is not all self serve like so many thatother lines that also helps to cut down their cases of NORO.

[Lisah101]

Although I don't want anyone to be sick, I've suffered through Noro once and it wasn't fun. I wanted to reiterate the fact we should understand the virus and know what we need - don't assume your household wipes will be effective.

 

I concur with the disenfecting part, but hopefully people will do their research and use products that kill Noro. Alcohol based Hand Sanitizers are not effective and also disenfectant wipes unless otherwise noted.

 

There is another one: "when used per label directions, LYSOL® Disinfectant Spray "Brand III" is effective against norovirus. However, LYSOL® Disinfecting Wipes are not effective against norovirus."

[cbr663]

Spray Nine is one of the greatest cleaning products on the market. Sherwin Williams carries it and I believe it’s about $7 for a 40oz (aprox) spray bottle. We use it not only to clean bathrooms and other areas inside but it does a wonderful job in cleaning our vinyl outdoors furniture, all the white vinyl cladding on the house, etc. One word of warning - do use gloves as the stuff is not gentle on the skin.

 

 

I was surprised with Spray Nine's capabilities. I grew up knowing it as only a car cleaner, as to this day my Dad uses it for cleaning the car only. We've started using it for our bathrooms and they have never been cleaner.

[cbr663]

Although I don't want anyone to be sick, I've suffered through Noro once and it wasn't fun. I wanted to reiterate the fact we should understand the virus and know what we need - don't assume your household wipes will be effective.

 

I concur with the disenfecting part, but hopefully people will do their research and use products that kill Noro. Alcohol based Hand Sanitizers are not effective and also disenfectant wipes unless otherwise noted.

 

There is another one: "when used per label directions, LYSOL® Disinfectant Spray "Brand III" is effective against norovirus. However, LYSOL® Disinfecting Wipes are not effective against norovirus."

 

I agree. In my research to find a product that kills noro, I also learned that there is a big difference between cleaning a surface and disinfecting it. Cleaning merely removes dirt and grime, whereas disinfecting a surface kills the bacteria and virus. If you do not follow the product's instructions, you are most likely using a disinfectant to clean and not disinfect. The difference appears to be the length of time that the product must remain on the surface in order for the disinfectant to work. As you stated above, "when used per label directions" is critical.

[luxurysailer]

RuthC is right. Anytime we're on a cruise ship we must conduct ourselves as if there is a major outbreak of norovirus. No exceptions. We must protect ourselves. This requires constant vigilance and flawless hygienic technique. I admit this is very difficult. Being a retired physician and chair of our hospital infection control committee for about twenty years I pride myself on good hygienic practice., but I admit that on one cruise I contracted norovirus. Possibly my fault but perhaps not. Either way, I've never been so ill before or since.