How formal on Formal Nights

[ICUQT]

It's funny/sad to hear about cutbacks when veteran cruisers can't even be bothered to dress a couple times per week. Then you advise new cruisers about how no one dresses anymore....but hey be sure to take away Another thing that made HAL stand apart from the others....then complain that the standards and service are in decline...

 

As a 4 Star I am going to disagree with you on this. It has been pointed out to me many times on these boards...HAL is NOT a premium cruise line. It is just an "average" cruise line and to stay competitive it has to do a few things. It has to make "changes" in order to compete in the industry. Cuts in service, man power and other resources are industry wide. In today's economy, not just in the cruise industry, the motto is "do more with less" because it's all about the bottom line $$$$$. Sure I would like it to be like it was when I first started cruising. But that is not going to ever happen again. I remember when ALL men wore a tux on formal nights and women wore long gowns and dressed to the 10's. I remember renting tuxedos for my children to conform to those formal nights. When was the last time you saw a lady wearing a long gown to the MDR or throughout the ship for the evening? The percentage of women wearing evening gowns is probably less than the men wearing tuxedos now. The second issue that HAL has is "marketing". Just who are they marketing too? The young generation? The middle age or elderly? How about those with family? IMO the generation that butters their bread is my generation but truth is we are a dying breed and HAL is going to have to "adapt" to change to remain competitive. The days of formal evening attire are just about gone and HAL knows it I am sure. That is why they are allowing suits, jackets and cocktail dresses other than gowns. So why don't they just make it "smart casual" and call it a day. Write a policy and enforce it. Because they (HAL) are certainly not enforcing the one they have. I don't advise anyone on how to dress. I'm no fashion easter. I think if you use some common sense and enforce a policy for dress code HAL would not have these complaints. I for one am going to continue to complain about declines in service and standards because it all about "change" good or bad. It is NOT about "veteran cruisers can't even be bothered to dress a couple of times a week"

 

bob

[RJ2002]

As a 4 Star I am going to disagree with you on this. It has been pointed out to me many times on these boards...HAL is NOT a premium cruise line. It is just an "average" cruise line and to stay competitive it has to do a few things. It has to make "changes" in order to compete in the industry. Cuts in service, man power and other resources are industry wide. In today's economy, not just in the cruise industry, the motto is "do more with less" because it's all about the bottom line $$$$$. Sure I would like it to be like it was when I first started cruising. But that is not going to ever happen again. I remember when ALL men wore a tux on formal nights and women wore long gowns and dressed to the 10's. I remember renting tuxedos for my children to conform to those formal nights. When was the last time you saw a lady wearing a long gown to the MDR or throughout the ship for the evening? The percentage of women wearing evening gowns is probably less than the men wearing tuxedos now. The second issue that HAL has is "marketing". Just who are they marketing too? The young generation? The middle age or elderly? How about those with family? IMO the generation that butters their bread is my generation but truth is we are a dying breed and HAL is going to have to "adapt" to change to remain competitive. The days of formal evening attire are just about gone and HAL knows it I am sure. That is why they are allowing suits, jackets and cocktail dresses other than gowns. So why don't they just make it "smart casual" and call it a day. Write a policy and enforce it. Because they (HAL) are certainly not enforcing the one they have. I don't advise anyone on how to dress. I'm no fashion easter. I think if you use some common sense and enforce a policy for dress code HAL would not have these complaints. I for one am going to continue to complain about declines in service and standards because it all about "change" good or bad. It is NOT about "veteran cruisers can't even be bothered to dress a couple of times a week"

 

bob

 

For what it's worth, Travel Weekly (a travel industry publication) still has HAL in the premium category. (google: travel weekly cruises, then click on the "Browse by Line and Ship" link.) They categorize all the lines into Luxury, Premium, Mainstream, Expedition, Specialty and River.

[Kona921]

For what it's worth, Travel Weekly (a travel industry publication) still has HAL in the premium category. (google: travel weekly cruises, then click on the "Browse by Line and Ship" link.) They categorize all the lines into Luxury, Premium, Mainstream, Expedition, Specialty and River.

 

Thank you for providing a proof source RJ2002. When I started cruising in 1997 HAL was touted as 5star and it felt that way. I am sure a 4star mariner would agree to that. In all of these years of cruising my behavior as well as my expectations have remained the same. I wore gowns in 1997, I wear gowns today.

 

Bob just basically confirmed what I had said. He says how he remembers gowns and tuxedos being the norm. Has his behavior/attitude changed or remained the same?

 

My parents took us on our first cruise to expose us to the finer things in life. My Dad meant for us to aspire to a level where we would be able to enjoy a vacation experience that went beyond shorts and t shirts. It worked.

 

Its sad to see that experience diminished and then to say "sign of the times". News flash....WE are the times. WE create the environment. I can't control what others do but it the dress code says X then I follow X.

[ICUQT]

For what it's worth, Travel Weekly (a travel industry publication) still has HAL in the premium category. (google: travel weekly cruises, then click on the "Browse by Line and Ship" link.) They categorize all the lines into Luxury, Premium, Mainstream, Expedition, Specialty and River.

 

I agree with you RJ. Fodor's also classifys HAL as premium and I suspect other publications do to. When I mentioned it on a thread I got hammered by the nay sayers.

 

bob

[ICUQT]

Thank you for providing a proof source RJ2002. When I started cruising in 1997 HAL was touted as 5star and it felt that way. I am sure a 4star mariner would agree to that. In all of these years of cruising my behavior as well as my expectations have remained the same. I wore gowns in 1997, I wear gowns today.

 

Bob just basically confirmed what I had said. He says how he remembers gowns and tuxedos being the norm. Has his behavior/attitude changed or remained the same?

 

My parents took us on our first cruise to expose us to the finer things in life. My Dad meant for us to aspire to a level where we would be able to enjoy a vacation experience that went beyond shorts and t shirts. It worked.

 

Its sad to see that experience diminished and then to say "sign of the times". News flash....WE are the times. WE create the environment. I can't control what others do but it the dress code says X then I follow X.

 

I guess my attitude/behavior has changed over the years. Won't argue if it was for the good or bad. I guess I have changed with the times. Like your father I gave my sons the same experience he gave you. My kids did not turn out bad at all. Very proud of both of them. I will even agree with you about the dress code says X then ENFORCE X..but HAL does not. That's my point and if they had done that over the years we might not be talking about it now.

 

bob

[Linda&Vern]

On the Z right now. Last night was first formal night of cruise. Several tux, but mostly suit & tie or sport coat & slacks & tie. We observed two men eating dinner in dress slacks, dress shirt, tie - with no coat. We also saw two men in shorts turned away from the MDR. There was a sign at the door saying it was formal night, please dress appropriately, etc etc.

[iancal]

At the end of the day what does it really matter whether HAL is classified as a premium cruise line or a mainstream line?

 

Classifying HAL or Celebrity as premium cruise lines certainly has no impact on my cruise selections.

 

I suspect it has more to do with one's aspirational goals that anything else.

[ICUQT]

On the Z right now. Last night was first formal night of cruise. Several tux, but mostly suit & tie or sport coat & slacks & tie. We observed two men eating dinner in dress slacks, dress shirt, tie - with no coat. We also saw two men in shorts turned away from the MDR. There was a sign at the door saying it was formal night, please dress appropriately, etc etc.

 

You just made my point....thanks

[Kona921]

On the Z right now. Last night was first formal night of cruise. Several tux, but mostly suit & tie or sport coat & slacks & tie. We observed two men eating dinner in dress slacks, dress shirt, tie - with no coat. We also saw two men in shorts turned away from the MDR. There was a sign at the door saying it was formal night, please dress appropriately, etc etc.

 

 

Thanks for sharing.

[david,Mississauga]

I will be among the <10% on the NA next week; with no attitude at all for those who choose to enjoy the cruise's formal nights more casually. In fact the couples we are traveling with will most definitely not be in tux or gown. Even on smart casual nights I will be in jacket and tie. Late dining is just a little more special for us when we dress a little out of the ordinary.

 

Dennis

 

For next year I am intending to take our first HAL cruise in 40 years so this discussion interests me. Most of our cruises and crossings have been on P&O and Cunard, which are known for their formality. I am pleased to read that I will not be the only one to dress formally on formal nights. Cunard says that a dark suit is an acceptable substitute for a dinner jacket, yet about 90 to 95% will wear the full formal rig. They require gents to wear a jacket on all non-formal nights. Although ties are not required with the jacket on the informal nights, I have noticed about a quarter to a third of the men do wear one. Going to sea is, to my wife and me, a rare opportunity to get dressed up. I don't wear a tie as often as I used to in Toronto and region, not even to the theatre most times, but I do for an elegant restaurant, the opera or when a guest at someone's private club. Many of the clubs have "dumbed down" their dress code, but I have noticed the vast majority of men do wear a jacket and tie for dinner.

 

Formal dress is a tough sell these days. I suppose we will see more "formal optional" codes on ships. But the pendulum may swing back. I know some young people who like to dress up when the occasion arises. Our adult son looks at me with disdain if I'm not wearing a tie (as he does) going out for dinner or to the theatre.

[RJ2002]

For next year I am intending to take our first HAL cruise in 40 years so this discussion interests me. Most of our cruises and crossings have been on P&O and Cunard, which are known for their formality. I am pleased to read that I will not be the only one to dress formally on formal nights. Cunard says that a dark suit is an acceptable substitute for a dinner jacket, yet about 90 to 95% will wear the full formal rig. They require gents to wear a jacket on all non-formal nights. Although ties are not required with the jacket on the informal nights, I have noticed about a quarter to a third of the men do wear one. Going to sea is, to my wife and me, a rare opportunity to get dressed up. I don't wear a tie as often as I used to in Toronto and region, not even to the theatre most times, but I do for an elegant restaurant, the opera or when a guest at someone's private club. Many of the clubs have "dumbed down" their dress code, but I have noticed the vast majority of men do wear a jacket and tie for dinner.

 

Formal dress is a tough sell these days. I suppose we will see more "formal optional" codes on ships. But the pendulum may swing back. I know some young people who like to dress up when the occasion arises. Our adult son looks at me with disdain if I'm not wearing a tie (as he does) going out for dinner or to the theatre.

 

You will certainly not feel out of place on formal nights in your formal wear, just be prepared that you may not see as many tuxes on HAL as you might on the other lines you are accustomed to.

 

Enjoy your first HAL cruise!

Edited February 28, 2014 by RJ2002

[Tarpeian Rock]

At the end of the day what does it really matter whether HAL is classified as a premium cruise line or a mainstream line?

 

Classifying HAL or Celebrity as premium cruise lines certainly has no impact on my cruise selections.

 

I suspect it has more to do with one's aspirational goals that anything else.

 

 

 

You are correct in that someone's "classification" doesn't / shouldn't be the driver of a choice of cruise line. I would suspect that there's a certain amount of "editorial inertia" when it comes to things like the annual - or less so - reprinting of guide books. And certainly HAL - like all lines - cultivates travel professionals and writers, so people providing input for publication, I suspect, are in more of a "service bubble" than the average passenger. My question is when, or if, the various "declining by degrees" issues reach a tipping point in widespread perception.

[david,Mississauga]

You will certainly not feel out of place on formal nights in your formal wear, just be prepared that you may not see as many tuxes on HAL as you might on the other lines you are accustomed to.

 

Enjoy your first HAL cruise!

 

Thank you for your kind comments. I should have been more clear: it has been 40 years since we last had a cruise with HAL. That was on the lovely (previous) Rotterdam.

[dr.dawg]

so, dressing in tuxes and gowns makes the mdr dining experience 'premium.'?

all of the costumes in the world won't improve the service, the quality of the food, the quality of the deserts, the quality of the coffee, the wine list, and on and on. it is still slow service, mediocre food, and the rest. why not just dress down to the experience? and no wonder the lido is so popular; it is a more reasonable and better experience for most cruisers these days. there is no reason for lots of folks to gussy up for the mdr; not worth the time, effort, and money. the whole 'code' is a joke. make it 'premium', hal, and they will come dressed.

[taxmantoo]

so, dressing in tuxes and gowns makes the mdr dining experience 'premium.'?

all of the costumes in the world won't improve the service, the quality of the food, the quality of the deserts, the quality of the coffee, the wine list, and on and on. it is still slow service, mediocre food, and the rest. why not just dress down to the experience? and no wonder the lido is so popular; it is a more reasonable and better experience for most cruisers these days. there is no reason for lots of folks to gussy up for the mdr; not worth the time, effort, and money. the whole 'code' is a joke. make it 'premium', hal, and they will come dressed.

 

Another bad hair day? :rolleyes:

[alwaysfrantic]

I'm just off the Noordam. These are my observations. There were some tuxes; definitely not the most common sight. I would describe the most common as "church dress." Most in suits and dresses. I saw one true "gown" the whole trip. On the flip side I only saw one open neck, no jacket on a formal night.

 

Smart casual nights were just as expected. Ranged from blue blazers and church dresses to polo/khakis & lady's equivalent.

 

In Lido in evens I think any dress was acceptable. Shorts and tees were seen and fine even on formal night

[alwaysfrantic]

One formal night was on a 5pm port departure day. I was late fixed so it didn't bother me, but for early that might be tough.

[Stratheden]

Not everyone can travel with formal clothes.

 

We don't take clothing for formal nights with us as the cruise is usually only part of our travels. We can be away for anything up to 10 weeks and we don't need to heft gowns, tuxes or suits etc. and only use them once or twice. We only want multi use items.

 

We don't go to the MDR on formal nights - we go when we can wear our smart casual attire. We have been out strolling the deck on formal night and looked in the windows and have been amazed at the informality of some people and wondered why we stayed away. :confused:

[SargassoPirate]

Not everyone can travel with formal clothes.

 

We don't take clothing for formal nights with us as the cruise is usually only part of our travels. We can be away for anything up to 10 weeks and we don't need to heft gowns, tuxes or suits etc. and only use them once or twice. We only want multi use items.

 

We don't go to the MDR on formal nights - we go when we can wear our smart casual attire. We have been out strolling the deck on formal night and looked in the windows and have been amazed at the informality of some people and wondered why we stayed away. :confused:

 

Well said, and we are with you. We often book a repo cruise as a convenient and enjoyable way to get across one of the oceans to or from the U.S. in conjunction with a land-based tour. For example, we once spent three weeks in Australia, where we spent several days touring the outback with an outfitter, after which we boarded a ship in Sydney and sailed back to the U.S. We packed quick-dry, double-duty clothes - but not one stitch of formal wear. Didn't feel the need to lug the extra clothing around for just a few formal nights on the ship. On those formal nights, we just put on our best clothes we had with us, and ate in the buffet.

[cbr663]

We don't make the effort to partake in formal night as we don't feel that HAL makes the effort either. Simply designating an evening as "formal" is not enough. For us, the formality requires something extra special; an event that is not to be missed.

 

I would love to see an evening start with a special invitation that creates a sense of wonder and excitement that highlights numerous events throughout the ship - perhaps special cocktails throughout the ship, all served with elevated entertainment, a meal to end all meals served (as the tired surf 'n turf ain't that special) and a show to end all shows. A sense of mystery or of something extra special.

 

I was looking for the "notch up" and sadly, it could not be found.

[RJ2002]

 

We don't go to the MDR on formal nights - we go when we can wear our smart casual attire. We have been out strolling the deck on formal night and looked in the windows and have been amazed at the informality of some people and wondered why we stayed away. :confused:

 

This is sad. We have passengers who are abiding by the dress code and not eating in the MDR on Formal Night, yet when they walk by the MDR and see the variety of attire, they say "Hey, I could have fit in there... why did we have to eat dinner at a buffet instead of being served?"

 

It seems to me HAL can do two things:

 

(1) Strictly enforce the dress code at the door of the MDR, plain and simple.

 

or,

 

(2) Have Smart Casual be acceptable every evening, and then additionally designate Formal Optional nights, where everyone who chooses to dress formally can do so and enjoy themselves.

 

Frankly, I could live with either option. I don't mind wearing a sport coat on the plane en-route to the port, and will wear the sport coat and tie with slacks or khakis on formal nights. On the other hand, I'd be perfectly fine with dressing Smart Casual every night, while on certain nights also having the additional option to dress Formally if I chose to do so.

 

Whether one is dressed in Smart Casual or Formal does not impact my enjoyment of my dinner in the MDR one bit.

[ICUQT]

RJ......careful your starting to sound like me....lol:)

[Lady Chew]

We don't make the effort to partake in formal night as we don't feel that HAL makes the effort either. Simply designating an evening as "formal" is not enough. For us, the formality requires something extra special; an event that is not to be missed.

 

I would love to see an evening start with a special invitation that creates a sense of wonder and excitement that highlights numerous events throughout the ship - perhaps special cocktails throughout the ship, all served with elevated entertainment, a meal to end all meals served (as the tired surf 'n turf ain't that special) and a show to end all shows. A sense of mystery or of something extra special.

 

I was looking for the "notch up" and sadly, it could not be found.

 

We agree completely! For us, it's not worth the effort of taking the extra clothing & shoes and taking the extra time to get really dressed up, for just a one-and-a-half hour dinner, even if it is twice on a one-week cruise. If they had other special activities, that would be worth while. And if they made formal really formal, no sports coats and no black slacks with "sparkly" tops ... which we sometimes wear when we feel like going smart casual and getting into the MDR on formal nights.

[mudscraper]

so, dressing in tuxes and gowns makes the mdr dining experience 'premium.'?

all of the costumes in the world won't improve the service, the quality of the food, the quality of the deserts, the quality of the coffee, the wine list, and on and on. it is still slow service, mediocre food, and the rest. why not just dress down to the experience? and no wonder the lido is so popular; it is a more reasonable and better experience for most cruisers these days. there is no reason for lots of folks to gussy up for the mdr; not worth the time, effort, and money. the whole 'code' is a joke. make it 'premium', hal, and they will come dressed.

 

Yeah you're correct. Everything about HAL is terrible. Of course back on 14 Feb. you had to inform us that you'll be sailing on the N.A. on 23 March. You're schtick is getting old.

[taxmantoo]

Not everyone can travel with formal clothes.

 

I will argue that everyone CAN travel with formal clothes ... but not everyone WANTS to :rolleyes: